Why would anyone do this to another human being?

[PollyannaMom]

I agree with this, too. Although it was a horrible and humiliating thing to have happen, taping him did not cause his death. Nor in the Phoebe Prince case did harrassing and stalking Phoebe kill her. But every single thing the roommate/friend (in this case) and that group of teens (in the Phoebe Prince case) did that could be charged as a criminal or civil offense, should be. Libel, if things were posted online about them, stalking, harrassment, felony video voyeurism, intentional affliction of emotional harm, whatever.

I agree. What those students did is horrible, not just a "prank", and I think they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible for every law they broke that we can dig up!! I think they should spend time in jail, and be fined, and have to go around to schools and talk to kids accused of bullying, about how awful a so-called "prank" can turn, and what it's done to their lives.

But I don't think we can charge them with the death itself. Ultimitely, the victim made that decision. It's horrible, and sad, and I wish no person ever felt that they had to consider that! But (donning 3 levels of flame suit) I think we also, on some level, view suicide as selfish - as ending one's own pain by causing pain to one's family and friends. And I don't think it's as horrible as it sounds to feel that way, because I think that consideration stops a lot of people from doing the same thing. If we lose sight of that point of view, I'm afraid we'll see a rise, not a fall, in suicide rates.

 

[dodukes]

I agree. What those students did is horrible, not just a "prank", and I think they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible for every law they broke that we can dig up!! I think they should spend time in jail, and be fined, and have to go around to schools and talk to kids accused of bullying, about how awful a so-called "prank" can turn, and what it's done to their lives.

But I don't think we can charge them with the death itself. Ultimitely, the victim made that decision. It's horrible, and sad, and I wish no person ever felt that they had to consider that! But (donning 3 levels of flame suit) I think we also, on some level, view suicide as selfish - as ending one's own pain by causing pain to one's family and friends. And I don't think it's as horrible as it sounds to feel that way, because I think that consideration stops a lot of people from doing the same thing. If we lose sight of that point of view, I'm afraid we'll see a rise, not a fall, in suicide rates.

I've been keeping up with the thread but haven't chimed in yet becauase well I'm not sure how to chime in but I think I agree with the above. While I think they probably will be charged with the invasion of privacy thing and whatever else, I don't think they can be charged for the death itself. While it's terrible to be invaded in your dorm room on a personal act, most of us here wouldn't commit suicide over having a sex tape released (at least I don't think), so there really was no telling that that was how it was going to end up. Not defending the two kids but just pointing out my pov on this. I also think its sad that if he wasnt getting along with the roommate and had requested a change that he wasnt granted one or at least something done about it.

 

[FergieTCat]

This is the New Jersey Statute regarding assisted suicide:

"A person who purposely aids another to commit suicide is guilty of a crime of the second degree if his conduct causes such suicide or an attempted suicide, and otherwise of a crime of the fourth degree."

If I were Tyler's attorney, I'd be focusing on that point.

 

[wvjules]

This is the New Jersey Statute regarding assisted suicide:

"A person who purposely aids another to commit suicide is guilty of a crime of the second degree if his conduct causes such suicide or an attempted suicide, and otherwise of a crime of the fourth degree."

If I were Tyler's attorney, I'd be focusing on that point.

Look at the fisrt part of that - they didn't aid him.

 

[FergieTCat]

Look at the fisrt part of that - they didn't aid him.

When I read that, I paused between the first part and the second part. You are right, when read straight through, it isn't valid. But if you pause right before my bolded statement ...

 

[crashbb]

Look at the fisrt part of that - they didn't aid him.

I also think that they (Tyler's attorney/the prosecutor's) would need to prove that the defendants could have reasonably assumed that their actions would lead to suicide. I'm not sure that they can do that.

 

[Magic Mom]

For all we know this kid could have caught Tyler doing a number of things that he could have been more than happy about posting on the internet exclaiming "Yay!" Hopefully the jury will look at all the evidence and make their decision based on that, not on one little comment.

ETA Before anyone misunderstands, this isn't because I'm defending the roommate, I'm just defending the intelligence of the jury

It's interesting how different people interpret things. I see "yay" to mean "yay, something good to tape" which he could have said if it were female or male. It's vague enough for me to see it either way. I agree with the PP that said it might better if it wasn't tried as a hate crime to give the case against them a better shot.

 

[moon]

A prank is putting vaseline on the door. Broadcasting someone having sex on the internet withour their knowledge or consent goes WELL beyond prank!

ITA. that anyone would think of this crime as a "prank" is beyond me. This was cruel, with every intention to harm as much as possible. This action was pure, pure evil, pure hatred.

Just as this crime would have followed the victim's life forever, it should follow the perpetrators lives and catch up with them wherever they goe. It is the least they deserve.

 

[dejr_8]

ITA. that anyone would think of this crime as a "prank" is beyond me. This was cruel, with every intention to harm as much as possible. This action was pure, pure evil, pure hatred.

Just as this crime would have followed the victim's life forever, it should follow the perpetrators lives and catch up with them wherever they goe. It is the least they deserve.

I think this is a real leap.

 

[TeresaBelle]

This story is so sad. According to this article, Tyler had an idea of what his roommate up to (he thought he was being watched by just his roommate) but it must have spiralled out of control to quick for him:

http://blogs.forbes.com/kashmirhill/2010/09/30/tyler-clementi-turned-to-a-gay-message-forum-for-help-before-his-suicide/

I read this article and if it's true and it really is Tyler they're quoting, he knew he'd been taped the first time and was expecting it the second time, so I am wondering how was the second encounter taped?? I doesn't matter I mean, it's still totally WRONG, but I'm just confused.

"so I wanted to have the guy over again.

I texted roomie around 7 asking for the room later tonight and he said it was fine.

when I got back to the room I instantly noticed he had turned the webcam toward my bed. And he had posted online again….saying….”anyone want a free show just video chat me tonight”…or something similar to that….

soooo after that…..

I ran to the nearest RA and set this thing in motion…..
we’ll see what happens……

I haven’t even seen my roommate since sunday when i was asking for the room the first time…and him doing it again just set me off….so talking to him just didn’t seem like an option….

meanwhile I turned off and unplugged his computer, went crazy looking for other hidden cams….and then had a great time."

 

[Hannathy]

I think this is a real leap.

I don't. Anyone who could set out to purposefully cause another human being so much humiliation, grief, embarrassment is a heartless B(illegitimate child).
This cruel act was planned and advertised, and bragged about!

What then is evil if that isn't?

 

[moon]

I think this is a real leap.

What, do you think this was done in pure fun? That there was no intention to harm and hummiliate?

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

I don't. Anyone who could set out to purposefully cause another human being so much humiliation, grief, embarrassment is a heartless B(illegitimate child).
This cruel act was planned and advertised, and bragged about!

What then is evil if that isn't?

I agree....I look at this as a parent..and if this was my child the pain and humiliation my child would feel.

parents, if he was your child how would you want these 2 other characters to be charged? I think your tune would change, you wouldn't say "O its just invasion of privacy, gimme a break."
No, you would be saying it was a hate crime, done by 2 evil kids with malicious intent to hurt and humiliate this boy. And you would want justice to be served.

 

[dejr_8]

I don't. Anyone who could set out to purposefully cause another human being so much humiliation, grief, embarrassment is a heartless B(illegitimate child).
This cruel act was planned and advertised, and bragged about!

What then is evil if that isn't?

You want pure evil, look up the Jeffrey Curley Murder. That is pure evil.

This case is a really stupid prank that had a dramatically poor outcome. I call it a prank because I believe they would have broadcast the video even if the victim was with a woman, or completely alone doing some form of self gratification.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

You want pure evil, look up the Jeffrey Curley Murder. That is pure evil.

This case is a really stupid prank that had a dramatically poor outcome. I call it a prank because I believe they would have broadcast the video even if the victim was with a woman, or completely alone doing some form of self gratification.

I thought about this myself and came to the conclusion that No, I don't think they would have broadcasted it. He would have gave him a high five after he "scored with a chick". And he also wouldn't have put the comment on his twitter, b/c come on let's face it how many kids in college go off in dorms and have casual sex? This is what goes on in college dorms.
He did it b/c he knew that people would wanna see the stream b/c its not part of the social norm and it would humiliate him. I think these 2 also knew that he wasn't going to do anything to him to retaliate, if anything he was just going to report it to the RAs.

 

[Hannathy]

You want pure evil, look up the Jeffrey Curley Murder. That is pure evil.

This case is a really stupid prank that had a dramatically poor outcome. I call it a prank because I believe they would have broadcast the video even if the victim was with a woman, or completely alone doing some form of self gratification.

and what or how would that make it any better? your defense of this "act" amazes me.

I

 

[dejr_8]

and what or how would that make it any better? your defense of this "act" amazes me.

I

I'm not defending the act. I am however not willing to accept the description of the two defendants as evil incarnate.

 

[DawnCt1]

This is the New Jersey Statute regarding assisted suicide:

"A person who purposely aids another to commit suicide is guilty of a crime of the second degree if his conduct causes such suicide or an attempted suicide, and otherwise of a crime of the fourth degree."

If I were Tyler's attorney, I'd be focusing on that point.

This was not "assisted suicide" in which one actively participates or provides the means with which one kills them self. They in no way could reasonably predict that this young man would kill himself. Their intent was to embarrass and humiliate. One would be hard pressed to convince anyone that they intended for Tyler to be dead. Tyler will not have an attorney unless his family pursues a civil case, which they may well do after this criminal case is resolved. His interests will be pursued by the prosecutor/state's attorney.
Could you imagine the chaos we would have in the legal system, if suicide could be prosecuted as murder or manslaughter?

 

[dejr_8]

This was not "assisted suicide" in which one actively participates or provides the means with which one kills them self. They in no way could reasonably predict that this young man would kill himself. Their intent was to embarrass and humiliate. One would be hard pressed to convince anyone that they intended for Tyler to be dead. Tyler will not have an attorney unless his family pursues a civil case, which they may well do after this criminal case is resolved. His interests will be pursued by the prosecutor/state's attorney.
Could you imagine the chaos we would have in the legal system, if suicide could be prosecuted as murder or manslaughter?

Well said.

 

[DawnCt1]

It's interesting how different people interpret things. I see "yay" to mean "yay, something good to tape" which he could have said if it were female or male. It's vague enough for me to see it either way. I agree with the PP that said it might better if it wasn't tried as a hate crime to give the case against them a better shot.

I see it the same way you do.