Why would anyone do this to another human being?

[WeLoveLilo05]

I live in Jersey so this has been on the news and talked about all day...its just so sad, how come people just cannot accept that we are all different. I mean really, who really cares about this young man's sexual preference. If he had a girl in the room, these 2 idiots wouldn't have streamed a thing, therefore this should be considered a hate crime. Its just so sad that this happened. The 2 students who did this should be locked up.

All that I have been reading says "his friend and room mate" wow, he must have felt so betrayed and in so much pain, makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[Magic Mom]

I live in Jersey so this has been on the news and talked about all day...its just so sad, how come people just cannot accept that we are all different. I mean really, who really cares about this young man's sexual preference. If he had a girl in the room, these 2 idiots wouldn't have streamed a thing, therefore this should be considered a hate crime. Its just so sad that this happened. The 2 students who did this should be locked up.

All that I have been reading says "his friend and room mate" wow, he must have felt so betrayed and in so much pain, makes me sick to my stomach.

I'm not defending what they did, but you don't know that. Unless I missed some proof (which is possible) or you are a mind reader, you can't know if they would or wouldn't have done this stupid thing to a heterosexual.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

I'm not defending what they did, but you don't know that. Unless I missed some proof (which is possible) or you are a mind reader, you can't know if they would or wouldn't have done this stupid thing to a heterosexual.

and neither can you...
the point is, they knew what they were doing WHEN they were doing it. And looking at our world today and EVERYTHING that is going on, I mean look in the past few months how many people took their lives from cyber bullying, aren't these people aware of the toll that that kind of behavior can put on a person?

I could not even IMAGINE how this boy felt, if anyone took my private moments and streamed them, OMG, I would be mortified!!!!! An act like that is NOT a prank, a prank is putting a whoopee cushion on a chair. This act was done to hurt him, to make him feel like you know what, and sadly it went to a whole other level.

People are afraid of what is different and feel threatened and in order to make themselves feel better, they need to make that person feel bad about themselves, their lifestyle, and their behaviors. It really is a sick sad world they we are living in today.

 

[Magic Mom]

and neither can you...
the point is, they knew what they were doing WHEN they were doing it. And looking at our world today and EVERYTHING that is going on, I mean look in the past few months how many people took their lives from cyber bullying, aren't these people aware of the toll that that kind of behavior can put on a person?

I could not even IMAGINE how this boy felt, if anyone took my private moments and streamed them, OMG, I would be mortified!!!!! An act like that is NOT a prank, a prank is putting a whoopee cushion on a chair. This act was done to hurt him, to make him feel like you know what, and sadly it went to a whole other level.

People are afraid of what is different and feel threatened and in order to make themselves feel better, they need to make that person feel bad about themselves, their lifestyle, and their behaviors. It really is a sick sad world they we are living in today.

I agree, and that's why I haven't stated definitively that it was or wasn't a hate crime.

And yes some people do fear what is different or what they don't understand, but that doesn't automatically mean these people felt that way. Maybe they're equal opportunity idiots.

Again, I'm not defending their actions.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I have to admit I'm a bit offended by your comment here, because I do understand exactly what a prank is, and yes what this kid did fits the definition, and of course a prank can be pre-mediatated. The outcome has no bearing on whether or not this was by definition a prank or not. Now I have no idea what the roommates intention was so I will not go around saying this was a hate crime, until there is actual evidence proving it is. I happen to believe in innocent until proven guilty, so please don't mistake that for misunderstanding.

I think you and I are using very different definitions of prank. The definition you quote (below) lists "a malicious act" as an obsolete definition--but you seem to be using that one still I would use the "mildly mischevious" or "ludicrous act" definitions--ie. somethign that most reasonable people would consider to be "all in good fun" and not having ANY lasting negative impact. So, things like filling a dorm room with packing peanuts (once it is cleaned up no issue remains), the various MIT graduation pranks, etc. This level of invasion of privacy would be seen as having a lasting emotional impact on the victim by just about everyone I know. Perosanlly, I would not consider it is to be "MILDLY mischevious" or a "simple" (can't remmebr if it was you or others who used simple) prank to have myself and my husband of 14 years filmed having sex and have that broadcast online--and everyone KNOWS we are together I do not know anyone who would consider that to be funny and not think it would have a lasting impact on their emotional life (and maybe their jobs and who knows what else). Do you? Would you laugh it off as a simple prank and not care if someone did that to you?

As to whether or not this is a hate crime--I did not say it was. I said AT WORST it was. Very different. Basically I am saying it is possible it is. It will depending on what sort of evidence we see as to why this was done. Did the perpetrator write about how funny it would be and how much he dislike his roommate OR did he tweet about how much he hates (insert any number of derogatory words for homosexuals here) and how he would show them all? I do not know and I doubt you do either. I just feel that whenever you are looking at crimes against members of a group which is often targeted because they are a part of that group then the POSSIBILITY of a hate crime needs to be looked into. MANY crimes against gay people are crimes against people who just happen to be gay. Sometimes though, the crime is against a person BECAUSE that person is gay. I have absolutely no idea which is the case here and i did not say I did. I said it is possible that it is the latter and if so that would be the worst possible scenario.

Definition of PRANK
: trick:
a obsolete : a malicious act
b : a mildly mischievous act
c : a ludicrous act
.

 

[DawnCt1]

I think it will be the Phoebe Prince case that ends up setting the precedent.

I don't think so. Phoebe Prince was stalked and bullied, not only emotionally but physically in a systematic, on going manner. Did I just hear that he asked the school for help before his death?

 

[DawnCt1]

I just heard that he begged Rutgers to help him, insisting that he had to get out of that room, his roommate was causing him problems. They didn't follow up. Rutgers cannot be sued. They have "sovereign immunity".

 

[Toad_Passenger]

Any chance the Erin Andrews case would hold any precedent here? I know the guy in that case was charged with Interstate Stalking, but he ended up with 2.5 years AND has to register as a sex offender for the "distribution" of the video.

Wonder if there is any law in NJ that would force either of these two to end up on the registry, as well. They definitely made a concerted effort to distribute what they were viewing across the webcam. Given the new laws regarding the Internet and distribution of content, taking the suicide completely out of the picture, there could still be some more severe penalties applied.

As to the girl involved. I do think her part in the crime is not as large as the roommates, so I don't think she deserves as harsh a penalty. As to the roommate? Well, I just hope he gets the maximum penalty that is available to him. You don't get to strip another human being of their dignity, while being allowed to keep your own.

 

[Acklander]

I heard on the news this morning that they'll be charged with a hate crime. That seems fitting.
I don't know if we'll ever know the motivation behind what they did, as it's natural to spin things so that it doesn't reflect as badly on themselves but I can't help but think that this happened just because Tyler was gay. Maybe the parents are tolerant of alternate lifestyles, but I highly doubt it. I would guess that this couple was raised to think that gays were "less of a person". Maybe it was just the occasional joke, maybe it was outright bigotry, but the message was made loud and clear that it was ok to treat someone in a demeaning and humiliating way. It's so important to teach your kids about tolerance for those who have differences, not just some, but all.

 

[MosMom]

His comment on twitter kind of cements him into a hate crime. "My roomate asked for the room until midnight. I went into molly's room and turned on the webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."

 

[jodifla]

You have to wonder about a generation of kids who PUBLICIZE their crimes.

I think a jury is going to find a pretty easy time saying "hate crime" with the Yay! comment.

Funny how 3 little letters can sink your future.

 

[FergieTCat]

I don't think so. Phoebe Prince was stalked and bullied, not only emotionally but physically in a systematic, on going manner. Did I just hear that he asked the school for help before his death?

Yes, but can they be held accountable for Phoebe's suicide?

 

[luvmy3]

His comment on twitter kind of cements him into a hate crime. "My roomate asked for the room until midnight. I went into molly's room and turned on the webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."

You have to wonder about a generation of kids who PUBLICIZE their crimes.

I think a jury is going to find a pretty easy time saying "hate crime" with the Yay! comment.

Funny how 3 little letters can sink your future.

For all we know this kid could have caught Tyler doing a number of things that he could have been more than happy about posting on the internet exclaiming "Yay!" Hopefully the jury will look at all the evidence and make their decision based on that, not on one little comment.

ETA Before anyone misunderstands, this isn't because I'm defending the roommate, I'm just defending the intelligence of the jury

 

[DawnCt1]

You have to wonder about a generation of kids who PUBLICIZE their crimes.

I think a jury is going to find a pretty easy time saying "hate crime" with the Yay! comment.

Funny how 3 little letters can sink your future.

I think they will be charged with a hate crime. I don't think they will be successful in getting a conviction.

 

[anna_chronistic]

Uumm, did I ever say what they did was not a crime? Or serious? A prank can be both of those things and who said I am dismissing what they did, go back and read what I have posted here, especially where I said that they should be charged with anything they legally can be, including involuntary manslaughter. If i was dismissing this as just some practical joke I most likely would have said a slap on the wrist and expulsion from school sould be sufficient punishment.

I think you and I are using very different definitions of prank. The definition you quote (below) lists "a malicious act" as an obsolete definition--but you seem to be using that one still I would use the "mildly mischevious" or "ludicrous act" definitions--ie. something that most reasonable people would consider to be "all in good fun" and not having ANY lasting negative impact. So, things like filling a dorm room with packing peanuts (once it is cleaned up no issue remains), the various MIT graduation pranks, etc. This level of invasion of privacy would be seen as having a lasting emotional impact on the victim by just about everyone I know. Personally, I would not consider it is to be "MILDLY mischevious" or a "simple" (can't remember if it was you or others who used simple) prank to have myself and my husband of 14 years filmed having sex and have that broadcast online--and everyone KNOWS we are together I do not know anyone who would consider that to be funny and not think it would have a lasting impact on their emotional life (and maybe their jobs and who knows what else). Do you? Would you laugh it off as a simple prank and not care if someone did that to you?

As to whether or not this is a hate crime--I did not say it was. I said AT WORST it was. Very different. Basically I am saying it is possible it is....I have absolutely no idea which is the case here and i did not say I did. I said it is possible that it is the latter and if so that would be the worst possible scenario.

This! Precisely -- although a prank can sometimes be a crime (could be charged with trespassing for some pranks, for example) or cause unintended harm, the intent of a prank is not actual damage to the person on whom one is "playing the prank." Also, the idea that THEY might have considered it a prank is irrelevant. If someone puts a bear trap in a linen closet, and that causes the person's roommate to lose an arm because he reached for a towel, just calling it a prank does not make it a lighthearted, mischievous act. A crime and a prank are not mutually exclusive, but certainly not every crime is a prank.

And luvmy3, I think where you and I disagree is simply a matter of semantics, and now I see what you mean. Even though the dictionary says the definition of prank as a "malicious" act is obsolete, there is a continuum scale of jokes that people play, and I can see how you would see a "prank" as a more malicious act than a "practical joke." I think a practical joke is as far on the continuum as anyone of decency should go and after that one is just calling an obvious crime a prank, but again, that is semantics, to some degree.

Also, still don't think this should qualify as a hate crime because, as NHdisneylover indicated, too, she, or I, or nearly anyone would be just as humiliated and devastated (and those words do not even come close to how I would really feel) if something so private was filmed and made public. It's something I would never be able to escape or forget. That is not a prank, but it is also not a hate crime ... unless anyone thinks one person's pain is "worth" more than another's? If these two had filmed a man and woman together, and the couple was devastated and humiliated by essentially having a sex tape of them released -- is their humiliation somehow less because they are straight?

 

[DawnCt1]

Yes, but can they be held accountable for Phoebe's suicide?

They haven't gone to court yet so I guess that is to be decided. Some of them have had their cases and charges reduced. I don't recall any of those details. Part of the defense will be to seek out Phoebe's mental health and medical history. There have been leaks and rumors that she had made suicidal gestures before. They were horrible, awful people, but I have a feeling that any serious crime that they are convicted of, will be less serious than the charges.

 

[FergieTCat]

They haven't gone to court yet so I guess that is to be decided. Some of them have had their cases and charges reduced. I don't recall any of those details. Part of the defense will be to seek out Phoebe's mental health and medical history. There have been leaks and rumors that she had made suicidal gestures before. They were horrible, awful people, but I have a feeling that any serious crime that they are convicted of, will be less serious than the charges.

Sad, but true.

 

[NotUrsula]

I honestly think it would be better if this were not prosecuted as a hate crime, because the higher standard of proof for that makes it more likely that they will escape punishment. I think that the prosecutorial focus should be on WHAT they did, not WHY they did it.

I'm not at all convinced that the victim was singled out because he was gay. It's entirely possible that it was done just because the perpetrator did not like him for other reasons, or because the jerk could not resist the temptation of finding himself in a good position to get 15 minutes of technogeek fame on the web.

 

[anna_chronistic]

The two involved should definitely be charged for invasion of privacy and should get the maximum sentence allowed for that crime.

I don't think it should go beyond that though. In the end it was the choice of the student involved to take his own life. Anyone who is taped having sex or doing anything else against their consent (gay or straight, doesn't matter) should have legal recourse for that crime but for that crime only. They premeditated to tape the encounter and put it on the Internet, they didn't premeditate to have the boy kill himself. Unlike a drunk driver who directly causes the death of the victim these people didn't directly cause the death, the young man unfortunately did that himself.

I agree with this, too. Although it was a horrible and humiliating thing to have happen, taping him did not cause his death. Nor in the Phoebe Prince case did harrassing and stalking Phoebe kill her. But every single thing the roommate/friend (in this case) and that group of teens (in the Phoebe Prince case) did that could be charged as a criminal or civil offense, should be. Libel, if things were posted online about them, stalking, harrassment, felony video voyeurism, intentional affliction of emotional harm, whatever.

 

[Planogirl]

I can't decide if this looks like a hate crime or not. The guy might have said "yay" if he'd been with a girl too. I bet it is but is there enough evidence?

The poor fellow. He must have been unbelievably unhappy to jump like that.