Why wait times have gotten crazy

[dawgsgirl]

It makes me think FP+ is not working as well as Disney thought it would!

 

[Reimagineer]

Some interesting points.

To the extent it has unofficially become a ride reservation system, maybe they should just go all the way and make it a full reservation system.
With a computer engineering the crowds... Give everyone 10 attractions in 20-30 minute Windows. No standby lines at all. You get on the ride when you're scheduled. The schedule is built on capacity.

"Hello Smith family, you are scheduled for the following 10 magical attractions....
We are sorry we could not fit your requests for X and Y into your itinerary for this date."

I know it sounds ridiculous, but is it truly more ridiculous than what we are seeing now.

I was thinking of something very similar actually...def better than what's happening now

 

[Disneylover99]

It makes me think FP+ is not working as well as Disney thought it would!

Or maybe it's working better then they thought it would.

 

[Planogirl]

Some interesting points.

To the extent it has unofficially become a ride reservation system, maybe they should just go all the way and make it a full reservation system.
With a computer engineering the crowds... Give everyone 10 attractions in 20-30 minute Windows. No standby lines at all. You get on the ride when you're scheduled. The schedule is built on capacity.

"Hello Smith family, you are scheduled for the following 10 magical attractions....
We are sorry we could not fit your requests for X and Y into your itinerary for this date."

I know it sounds ridiculous, but is it truly more ridiculous than what we are seeing now.

I can't imagine being that hyper-scheduled. It wouldn't be for me because the first thing I thought about was work and that's the place I'm trying to get away from when I go on vacation. But you're right, is it really more ridiculous when you think about it?

 

[havoc315]

I can't imagine being that hyper-scheduled. It wouldn't be for me because the first thing I thought about was work and that's the place I'm trying to get away from when I go on vacation. But you're right, is it really more ridiculous when you think about it?

The FP+ system already has you on a schedule, combined with lots of very long lines.
Being 100% on a schedule with no lines, doesn't sound any worse. Kinda like an organized tour vacation.

At 9:00, you will start with a ride at the iconic Dumbo. At 9:15, you have your reservation for Peter Pan.... Etc..

While another guest is directed to start their day in Adventure land.

Yes, it's crazy. But no crazier than what we are seeing.

 

[DebbieB]

Looking at room reservations for another possible stay in February, for our dates, there are no All Stars or Pop rooms available! This is the first I've ever noticed that. From 2/3-2/7.

There is a big cheerleading event around that time.

 

[dlavender]

Excellent point. Similar experience with us at Disney Junior. We were with about 20 people waiting in the standby line for the last Disney Junior Show of the Day. We were about a minute away from door opening when hoards of people began showing up in the fastpass line. It seemed to me that there were over 100 people with fastpasses and 20 of us without them. We had to stand there and wait for all the fastpassers to get into the theater until we were let in. This is no longer a Fastpass. It is a ride reservation. And like ADRs, it may be that if this system continues as is, we will need a fastpass in hand or we should not even bother.

I think the 4th and 5th fastpasses are greatly increasing wait times at the minor attractions.

I think #2 of the original post is fixable. No more than 3 FPs per day for anyone. Fewer FPs given out as "So sorry you had 30 seconds of inconvenience on your vacation" door prizes. The FP system is a wonderful concept, but when FPs are given out freely and in massive quantities, it blows the point of the entire system.

I agree. If they eliminated the 4th and 5th option, I believe it would help eliminate the unnecessary long lines on the secondary attractions.

There is a big cheerleading event around that time.

We've been this time in the past, and I have never seen every All Star and Pop booked up at this time. That's a lot of rooms.

 

[MrInfinity]

And lots of things are great for everyone -- anything that increases customer satisfaction is generally good for Disney and for us.

But it feels like the FP+ system increased satisfaction for some people, by taking it away from others.

Sure it did, but it increased satisfaction for more guests than it decreased. Only around 10% of people actually used FP- to get 5 or more rides, so we're only talking about a small % that are truly put out.

I was in the 10% who rode all day long via FP- so I'm as put out as anyone, but that's a good thing from a system standpoint. If you had one person that would ride 12 things in a day for every 4 people that would ride 2... That is 20 ridings. Would you not, as a system designer, rather all 5 people rode 4 instead of 12/2/2/2/2? In terms of guest satisfaction, the one guest is unhappy but 4 others are happy, and the happy guests only cost Disney 4 rides/day whereas the previous one happy guest cost Disney 12 rides/day. More are happier, and those who are happier consume fewer resources. It's a win for the guests, and a win for Disney. It's a lose for the guest who used to ride 12. That guest has to scrap their old ways and find new ways to still ride 12 things if that's their requirement.

A little OT, but, the more I think about it, does anyone think that Disney will soon make FP + a resort guest only feature?

I don't think they'll go this route. They are clearly trying to leverage less tangible perks as the carrot, and not reduce a fastpass to a dollar value. Right now when I look at Universal pricing or Cedar Point pricing which is to buy admission, ~or~ buy admission and their version of the FastPass, that is really a turnoff to think of having to pay double the admission to wait less. It essentially rewards the people with the most disposable income while penalizing those who can't afford. I think Disney knows people generally don't like that model, so they're trying to give out FPs to everyone... just make the booking window such that they're more useful to vacationers who are staying onsite.

 

[havoc315]

Sure it did, but it increased satisfaction for more guests than it decreased. Only around 10% of people actually used FP- to get 5 or more rides, so we're only talking about a small % that are truly put out.

I was in the 10% who rode all day long via FP- so I'm as put out as anyone, but that's a good thing from a system standpoint. If you had one person that would ride 12 things in a day for every 4 people that would ride 2... That is 20 ridings. Would you not, as a system designer, rather all 5 people rode 4 instead of 12/2/2/2/2? In terms of guest satisfaction, the one guest is unhappy but 4 others are happy, and the happy guests only cost Disney 4 rides/day whereas the previous one happy guest cost Disney 12 rides/day. More are happier, and those who are happier consume fewer resources. It's a win for the guests, and a win for Disney. It's a lose for the guest who used to ride 12. That guest has to scrap their old ways and find new ways to still ride 12 things if that's their requirement.

All valid points, without easy answers. It really depends, how many people are gaining, how many are really losing, and how much.

Are you gaining more repeat guests, because of this? Or are you losing old repeat guests who were able to take advantage of the old system?

In the end, it's a business decision. They want to design a system that does a few things, increasing profit in several different ways. In no particular order:
1-- Improve customer satisfaction, encouraging more return visits, better word of mouth.
2-- Create greater efficiencies in the park, to reduce operating costs.
3-- Generate more income within the park. Find way to encourage people to spend more money within the park.
4-- Encourage more advanced booking plus more onsite bookings.

I'm sure there are other things too.

Is an October 2015 average guest more satisfied than an October 2013 average guest? I really don't know the answer. On the one hand, they had the 3 fastpasses where previously they may have had none.
In October 2013, they may have waited 30-45 minutes at each mountain, but only 5-10 minutes for Small World, Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion. Now in 2015, they are walking right on to the mountain, but waiting 20-30 minutes for Small World and Haunted Mansion. So are they overall more satisfied or less? I really don't know.
If I actually had to guess, I'd suggest that the FP+ system may increase customer satisfaction during normally busy times -- Christmas when everything is a 60+ minute line, now everyone gets 3 fast lines. But it may not be having that effect during slower times of years, when you are now getting lines, where there were previously none.

 

[Praying Colonel]

That assumes of course that Disney wants to fix number 1.

Yep--what we guests see as a glitch, some efficiency expert working for Disney probably sees as a feature.

 

[MrInfinity]

Could it be that onsite guests spend more time inside the parks, and use attractions more than offsite guests? Because they have done a great job of filling up their resorts year-round with "free" dining plan and other promotions.

This would make for an interesting study! I can see lots of offsetting factors...

You'll have some offsiters who are staying close by and are "going to Disney World" as the intent of their trip. I would guess these are bargain hunters who are maximizing their $ by staying offsite and plan to ride a lot... Then you've got offsiters who are going down to go to Florida, visit family, or for work, and are planning to do Disney, but not as the primary focus of their trip. These guests probably do not set out to ride a whole lot. And then you've got locals, who are probably trying to get in a lot of rides too, for having gone lots of times.

For onsiters, you have a similar division... some who go fairly planned and trying to maximize their days, and others who go as more of a vacation. I think the latter group here is larger than the former.

So overall, I think offsite guests, on average, set out to ride more rides than onsite guests -- but I think it's really close.

 

[ArwenMarie]

This would make for an interesting study! I can see lots of offsetting factors...

You'll have some offsiters who are staying close by and are "going to Disney World" as the intent of their trip. I would guess these are bargain hunters who are maximizing their $ by staying offsite and plan to ride a lot... Then you've got offsiters who are going down to go to Florida, visit family, or for work, and are planning to do Disney, but not as the primary focus of their trip. These guests probably do not set out to ride a whole lot. And then you've got locals, who are probably trying to get in a lot of rides too, for having gone lots of times.

For onsiters, you have a similar division... some who go fairly planned and trying to maximize their days, and others who go as more of a vacation. I think the latter group here is larger than the former.

So overall, I think offsite guests, on average, set out to ride more rides than onsite guests -- but I think it's really close.

Why do you think offsite guests ride more than onsite? I would think the opposite or no difference. And why are offsiters bargain hunters more than onsite, in terms of maximizing value.

 

[ArwenMarie]

The FP+ system already has you on a schedule, combined with lots of very long lines.
Being 100% on a schedule with no lines, doesn't sound any worse. Kinda like an organized tour vacation.

At 9:00, you will start with a ride at the iconic Dumbo. At 9:15, you have your reservation for Peter Pan.... Etc..

While another guest is directed to start their day in Adventure land.

Yes, it's crazy. But no crazier than what we are seeing.

We're pretty much here already. I don't even know if everyone would get ten rides a day, maybe if you count everything.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Interesting point that the 4th and on FP could be making everything worse. Makes sense. I think they just put that in to stop all of the chatter that "you can only get 3 per day." And it worked.

 

[PlutoTheDog89]

My theory - and I apologize if it's been mentioned... is that all the on-site guests book the FP+ at 60 days out. The off-site guests get any remaining at the 30-day window. Now you have all the one-day guests, those who booked outside (or inside, actually) their FP+ reservation window, or those who couldn't get their desired FP+ (due to the tiered system or simply not getting it...) Well, they're forced to wait standby.

In the past, when it came to paper FP, everyone had a fair shake and they would print continuously until they were "sold out". Now, you have guests going to the park without any FP+ in hand or any chance of securing a FP, and are forced to wait. I even said at one point last year - there's no point in going to the parks "for the day" during crowded times.

I sadly noticed last year that the days of going on RnR multiple times were over.

 

[DVCcurious]

I'm hoping the Star Wars, Toy Story and Avatar expansions help lines at all four parks. If those 3 new lands sre awesome it will draw people away from MK and Epcot and the result should be shorter lines at Soarin' TT, and the top MK rides 7dmt , peter pan , etc.

 

[MrInfinity]

Why do you think offsite guests ride more than onsite?

I kind of just shared why I think that in that post. What are your thoughts on which group rides more?

And why are offsiters bargain hunters more than onsite, in terms of maximizing value.

I said the $, not the value. If you are saying any group of people don't seek out the best value to them and their family, I'd disagree. But "value" will be different to everyone. Staying offsite is a way to save money if the tradeoff of the perks not gotten onsite and the additional perks you get offsite does not lead to less overall value to the consumer.

 

[havoc315]

I'm hoping the Star Wars, Toy Story and Avatar expansions help lines at all four parks. If those 3 new lands sre awesome it will draw people away from MK and Epcot and the result should be shorter lines at Soarin' TT, and the top MK rides 7dmt , peter pan , etc.

Problem is, the Star Wars and Toy Story lands are probably at least 3 or 4 years away, minimum. And some of DHS will need to be closed down to make room for them. Avatar is close, but still well over a year away. Soarin is going down for 6 months. So things will get worse before they get better.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

It is not true that ALL onside guests book their FP right at 60 days, it's also not true that all offsite guests book at 30 days, nor is it true that there are NO attractions available for day guests to make FPs for (but they may not be the ones the guests want).

 

[PirateD]

Does anyone know how this is impacting the Lines app? We have used it in the past as a tool to adjust our touring plan as we go in the parks. I'm guessing it's one of the reasons Len and his team are looking into the change in wait times. I'm really curious as to what the variables are and how much Disney is controlling them and what it might end up looking like for holiday crowds.