Why wait times have gotten crazy

[Boopuff]

I haven't seen this mentioned. But how do large groups get/obtain fp+ if they're onsite can a really large group get ,say 50-100 fp+ for a group at one time? or does Disney force the groups into smaller sub-groups of 10 or so? Anyone know? I think, obviously, that the large groups can really,horribly, affect wait times especially if they're able to get a bunch of Fp+

 

[MrInfinity]

Many of the rides used to only have standby, no FP, so yes, people were waiting in standby lines.

Right, but now you can FastPass it instead so you don't have to wait at all!

 

[SparklePixie]

Right, but now you can FastPass it instead so you don't have to wait at all!

You missed the point. The only option used to be waiting standby for many secondary rides, which you seemed to have ignored in the previous post I quoted. I was correcting the idea every ride had FP.

 

[MrInfinity]

You missed the point. The only option used to be waiting standby for many secondary rides, which you seemed to have ignored in the previous post I quoted. I was correcting the idea every ride had FP.

Nobody said every ride had FastPass before (?) This is common knowledge. Rides that were sb-only before, if you feel now have an unreasonably long line, get a FP+ to them.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The comment that was previously made was that maybe some people didn't notice standby wait times before because they weren't waiting in the standby line for those rides.

SparklePixie's comment, as I read it (please correct me if I'm wrong, SparklePixie!), was saying that those people would have been waiting in the standby line for at least some of those rides, because there was no line other than the standby line to be in since they didn't previously have FP, so they would have absolutely had the opportunity to notice those standby wait times in the past.

 

[CapeCodTenor]

Go to the actual Germany with a real passport? Now that's an idea! On the other hand, there are no lines or attractions in Disney's version of Germany. Okay, so maybe you will need an ADR to watch the accordion playing/polka show while you eat, but at least you won't have to book this meal 60 days in advance.

My wife and I went several years ago to visit my brother, who was living there at the time, and loved it. We were there for about 14 days and did not want to leave and I've been trying to get back ever since.

 

[ThistleMae]

I have yet to experience the crazy wait times everyone is talking about. We went October 2014 for the first time with FP+ and it was amazing! We had the best trip and rode more with FP+ then ever before.
Now it could be that we just are getting better planning our meals, shows, etc. But we loved it so much we booked again to go this year. Time will tell if we have the same success as it's a different week but we are so excited to be back in WDW two years in a row when this was going to be an 'off' year!

I was there in September of 2013. Slow season. It was slow. Hardly any wait times for most rides. Soarin' of course and a few other popular rides were longer but not awful. You know, sometimes it just may be perception, or being in the wrong line at the wrong time. This whole debate is just so subjective. I'm going this year at a busy time...never been at a busy time....so I'm expecting a very different experience. I did book my FP's. I got two out of three of what I wanted and just picked any one for the third. I'm just excited to be going...no matter what the crowds are like!

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Right, but now you can FastPass it instead so you don't have to wait at all!

So you're essentially getting the same experience you had before FP+ but now it can be hyped as more usage.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I totally agree with you. FP+ gives people, say, 3 rides at 50% wait... and then all other rides are at, say (using your number) 10% longer wait. So if a guest rides 6 rides, that's 50% saved x3 and 10% lost x3. Big win. If he is only trying to ride 3 rides, that is 50% saved, period. If he is trying to ride 30 rides, it is 50% saved x3, and 10% lost x 27. At your 10% rule, the crossover point would be at 18 rides. 3x50% saved, 15x10% lost. Now I think your 10% is generous. I would put it higher than that because the line distribution has gone so much more toward FastPass. But still, even w that, most guest only set out to ride 5-6 rides in a day. If anyone thinks 5 or 6 rides in a day sounds absurd, know the average number of rides per guest, based on dividing the total number of ridings of all attractions in a day by the average attendance works out to between 5 and 6. So, if you are trying to do more than 5 or 6 rides, you should be charged a premium (in wait time) to get in more than the average. And if you want to ride less than 5 or 6, you should be able to do so easily, which you can. And last if you want to be right on the average, around 5 or 6 rides, you will have a moderate time-savings from FP+, which is the case.

Man and someone previously posted that they thought 10 per attraction was absurd. I wonder how many people would really do Stitch's Great Escape if it cost them $17 bucks.

 

[SparklePixie]

The comment that was previously made was that maybe some people didn't notice standby wait times before because they weren't waiting in the standby line for those rides.

SparklePixie's comment, as I read it (please correct me if I'm wrong, SparklePixie!), was saying that those people would have been waiting in the standby line for at least some of those rides, because there was no line other than the standby line to be in since they didn't previously have FP, so they would have absolutely had the opportunity to notice those standby wait times in the past.

Yes, that is exactly what I was saying.

 

[MrInfinity]

So you're essentially getting the same experience you had before FP+ but now it can be hyped as more usage.

You'll ride it via FP+, faster than you would have ridden it via Standby, before.

As an example, the HM tends to be a 45-min wait midday. It was in 2010, it was in 2012, and it was in 2015. Now, midday, you can ride it in 20 via FP+, while sb might take 55 min. In either scenario, you could ride it between 9am and 10am in 25-minutes. So it's all what you make of it. You CAN ride the HM, now, in less time than the same time-of-day wait would have been in 2012, but you also could have ridden it in 2012 at a more opportune time, thereby not needing a ticket for it. You can also, today, ride it at a more opportune time and still do it in 25 min w/o a FP+ if you want. What has changed, is that if you want to ride it midday, now, you can... with very little wait, if you pull a FP+ for it.

It's not rocket science. You just do your best job of picking the rides which will save you the most time for how you tour.

Keep in mind I'm not saying it is an end-all save-all for everyone! If you used to pull a LOT of FP- tickets, then FP+ is designed to keep you from doing that! It is designed to take all those beyond 3 that you used to get, and ensure other guests have an option to get them before you can get your 4th, 5th, etc. This is good for most guests, but bad for you. Best thing you can do is try to figure out the system and understand it better than the average guest. That's where you'll get your advantage, just like with FP-.

I don't get the concept behind repeatedly bashing FP+ instead of taking a pragmatic approach of... Okay. Here's the system. How do we get more than the average guest. (?)

FP- was great. I loved it, really. I have the pockets-full-of-tickets that we'd leave the park with in our scrapbook. They were very fond times. But it is a new age, and we can dwell on the past or figure out the FastPass of the information age. As great as it was, I totally understand that Disney wants every guest to get some even if it's just 3, before some guests get 12. That just makes sense, and it means once everyone gets 3, you can't get 12 any more. Such is life. They built a BETTER SYSTEM. Let's beat this one now. Yes?

 

[3DisneyFanz]

You'll ride it via FP+, faster than you would have ridden it via Standby, before.

As an example, the HM tends to be a 45-min wait midday. It was in 2010, it was in 2012, and it was in 2015. Now, midday, you can ride it in 20 via FP+, while sb might take 55 min. In either scenario, you could ride it between 9am and 10am in 25-minutes. So it's all what you make of it. You CAN ride the HM, now, in less time than the same time-of-day wait would have been in 2012, but you also could have ridden it in 2012 at a more opportune time, thereby not needing a ticket for it. You can also, today, ride it at a more opportune time and still do it in 25 min w/o a FP+ if you want. What has changed, is that if you want to ride it midday, now, you can... with very little wait, if you pull a FP+ for it.

It's not rocket science. You just do your best job of picking the rides which will save you the most time for how you tour.

Keep in mind I'm not saying it is an end-all save-all for everyone! If you used to pull a LOT of FP- tickets, then FP+ is designed to keep you from doing that! It is designed to take all those beyond 3 that you used to get, and ensure other guests have an option to get them before you can get your 4th, 5th, etc. This is good for most guests, but bad for you. Best thing you can do is try to figure out the system and understand it better than the average guest. That's where you'll get your advantage, just like with FP-.

I don't get the concept behind repeatedly bashing FP+ instead of taking a pragmatic approach of... Okay. Here's the system. How do we get more than the average guest. (?)

FP- was great. I loved it, really. I have the pockets-full-of-tickets that we'd leave the park with in our scrapbook. They were very fond times. But it is a new age, and we can dwell on the past or figure out the FastPass of the information age. As great as it was, I totally understand that Disney wants every guest to get some even if it's just 3, before some guests get 12. That just makes sense, and it means once everyone gets 3, you can't get 12 any more. Such is life. They built a BETTER SYSTEM. Let's beat this one now. Yes?

It takes longer to get on Figment with a FP now than it did via SB before.

 

[Love Tink]

You'll ride it via FP+, faster than you would have ridden it via Standby, before.

As an example, the HM tends to be a 45-min wait midday. It was in 2010, it was in 2012, and it was in 2015. Now, midday, you can ride it in 20 via FP+, while sb might take 55 min. In either scenario, you could ride it between 9am and 10am in 25-minutes. So it's all what you make of it. You CAN ride the HM, now, in less time than the same time-of-day wait would have been in 2012, but you also could have ridden it in 2012 at a more opportune time, thereby not needing a ticket for it. You can also, today, ride it at a more opportune time and still do it in 25 min w/o a FP+ if you want. What has changed, is that if you want to ride it midday, now, you can... with very little wait, if you pull a FP+ for it.

It's not rocket science. You just do your best job of picking the rides which will save you the most time for how you tour.

Forgive me if I missed this in earlier posts, because I only read your posts on this page - but are you simply ignoring the fact that FP+ is severely limited? In other words, if your constant caveat is "Just FP+ it!" are you saying this to mean that guests should only plan to ride 3-5 things a day, or are you saying it in the (misguided) belief that endless, timely FP+ are available to most parties for most attractions on most days?

 

[MrInfinity]

It takes longer to get on Figment with a FP now than it did via SB before.

It took longer for you to get on Figment?

The way you word this is implying it takes longer for everyone. When we went in 2014, we rode around 11am (when the wait was 30 min, and in past years it may have been 20 min) in about 5 min via FP+. We rode it again by standby, later, by complete walk-on. This was on a Flower-and-Garden day, so arguably "very busy".

 

[patdoc98]

Part of the planning now for MK, is to figure out "What rides are likely to have a lot of FP availability in the middle of the afternoon?" This has a lot of uncertainty on party days and very crowded days, but there are some high-capacity rides that almost always seem to have near-immediate FP availability.

No reason to rope-drop these, unless you really like the queues.

Haunted Mansion and Barnstormer both fit into this category. Of course, you still have to go to the FP machine areas, and then often play with your phone to move up the time. But if you're willing to do that, you can often ride 4-5 things in the middle of the afternoon with almost no actual wait, while they have relatively long standby waits. At MK, these are exactly the rides that used to be "walk-ons" at 10:45 am, and now have a 25-30 minute posted wait at that time. Better to use 2 initial FPs before lunch now, then one after lunch.

This plan really doesn't work in the non-MK parks.

 

[dlavender]

So eliminate FPs all together? Because FPs adversely affect some customers.... Heck, if you don't stay onsite, you probably can't even get a Mine Coaster FP. And they should certainly eliminate the parties under your theory, as the parties only benefit those who pay extra, while those who refuse to pay extra get shortened park hours and kicked out of the park early. While those at the park, get a VIP experience of enjoying the park with "only" 20,000 guests.

There are already lots and lots of ways that Disney policies adversely affect one customer, in favor of another customer. We've been through this again and again, so I'll wrap up my part in the conversation.

I'm in favor of options. That includes behavior options (being able to choose your strategies, being able to choose your parks, being able to choose to arrive early), and I'm in favor of financial options (people should be able to choose to spend more or spend less, to get different experiences. That includes everything from dining experience, to resort experience, to park experience. ) Just about everywhere, we see price distinction, especially in terms of leisure activities. You wouldn't walk into a restaurant and demand that everyone get the exact same meal for the exact same price. You wouldn't walk into a football game and demand to sit at the 50-year line for the same price as the bleacher seat.. You wouldn't start screaming at the airport when First class passengers are allowed to board an airplane while everyone else stands around waiting.. etc, etc. I don't believe that Disney fastpasses should be the one and only place in the entire free market universe where this basic price distinction should be a non-starter.

Again, your examples are off. For your first class example to apply, Disney would have to build "upgraded" ride carts for those who pay more to ride. Same ride, plushier ride vehicle. They don't do this, nor should they. But that would be about equivalent to having first class on an airplane. Same ride, better seat. That wouldn't affect another guests wait time or ride experience. I would look at people paying more for a cushier Winnie the Pooh seat like I do those on first class, "what a sucker", but, "Good for them"

The football example also isn't applicable. For it to work, the 50 yard line people would be able to get in unencumbered by the noisebleed seats, until 30 mins before kickoff. This doesn't happen nor should it.

Disney already offers premiums for purchase - dinner cruises, dessert parties, and the halloween party. No, I shouldn't be against the party. Disney owes no one extended park hours. 9-7 is a reasonable park operating time. Also, one enjoys less crowds during "party days" so its a trade off, one could argue better for the person not attending the party, an improved experience even. The point you are missing, is that these extras Disney offers does not affect the average customer's theme park experience that day. They aren't made to wait longer because of the actions of those who paid more. That's the crux of my argument and belief. Disney feels the same way. Last night, I saw a commercial for Disney showing "for only $80 per person per day" vacation package. Who is that geared towards? I believe their target market is that middle ground. That's why the POP has 4 times the amount of rooms as the Contemporary.....(estimate)

 

[MrInfinity]

Forgive me if I missed this in earlier posts, because I only read your posts on this page - but are you simply ignoring the fact that FP+ is severely limited? In other words, if your constant caveat is "Just FP+ it!" are you saying this to mean that guests should only plan to ride 3-5 things a day, or are you saying it in the (misguided) belief that endless, timely FP+ are available to most parties for most attractions on most days?

Endless timely FP+... My experience based on F&G/SWW week, was that at the MK it was easy to pull up to 6 FP+ in a day. It was also easy to pull a 4th useful FP+ at Epcot, thereby riding pretty much everything that builds a line there, via FastPass (and riding Soarin or TT at Rope Drop). We had no trouble riding everything we wanted at the AK via FastPass. And at DHS, unfortunately because of the TSMM / RnR choice, we did TSMM via Rope Drop and FP+, leaving RnR for standby.

Sure FP+ limits you to 3 up front. It is not meant to get you 12. If anything it is designed to prevent you from getting 12, so that everyone can get 3. If you want 12, you have to wait till everyone else pulls 3 first. But the system is not what's driving that limit... What is limiting is the 40,000 guests pulling FastPasses at the MK whereas before, only around 5,000 were pulling FastPasses. THAT is what's limiting here. Because of the success of FP+, it's harder to be super with it.

But by using them for primo attractions like A&E and SDMT, plus cutting out wasted time, minimizing trips across the parks, etc, I really feel like the time saved by having great rides during the busiest of times, more than makes up for having FP- tickets to more rides at times I can't control. It's a give and take, with pros and cons.

 

[ThistleMae]

Very interesting thread. There is much debate for and against FP+. I say....do your planning the best you can....and just go and have fun!

 

[dlavender]

It is not meant to get you 12

Were you really pulling 12 before? We usually would get about 3 (the mountains), and a "surprise" Phillharmagic once in a while...

 

[3DisneyFanz]

It took longer for you to get on Figment?

The way you word this is implying it takes longer for everyone. When we went in 2014, we rode around 11am (when the wait was 30 min, and in past years it may have been 20 min) in about 5 min via FP+. We rode it again by standby, later, by complete walk-on. This was on a Flower-and-Garden day, so arguably "very busy".

That's post FP+. In the days before FP was added it's documented that the peak wait time for Figment was 10 min and the average was 5 which is as low as Disney reports. Post FP those numbers doubled so your FP usage experience simply matches what it was before. It's not a "me" experience or "bashing the system" but a reality of what it created. There are studies that show many rides saw a significant increase in wait times post FP+ and that hasn't changed. HM, PotC and JC all saw significant changes so they aren't the same now as it was in 2010, 2013 or today.

Whether you like the system or not there's no point in trying to pretend it hasn't impacted SB lines in an overall negative way which is going to impact more people than any previous system including having no FP option at all.