Why so negative????

[loribell]

I'm not sure if this post is okay. Hope I don't upset the regulators to much. I just couldn't take any more of this. I had really been enjoying reading this board but the negativeness and hysteria is getting out of hand.

Sgtpet it's fine that you made the decision not to buy into DVC but why are you being so negative to everyone else's decision to buy. If we are happy with our decisions to buy it shouldn't be a problem for you. You are also scaring away people for something that you don't even know for sure. This is an individual family decision to make. If you are that unhappy just forget about buying DVC but please stop with all the negative responses to every one else. Enough already!

And for all of the rest of you speculating wildly about the DC why don't you just wait until the point charts come out. If it isn't as bad as you have speculated you have scared off potential members.

 

[sgtpet]

I have no problem with current DVC owners. But I feel that when I first questioned about being a DVC owner. I only received positive feedback. Obviously nothing in life is completely positive. Then I hear the Disney has raised rates 37% and owners state it is not that bad. I am sorry but an increase of 37% besides your own salary or your homes value is a huge negative.

My interest to purchase is gone, and I know these boards a pro Disney, as so am I. I have been to Disney many times in my life and will continue to do so in the future. But to not help others is not within my belief system. If I find things to improve then I will reconsider my position.

Please don't be angered at the criticism. It is not the owners faults. I admire all of you to make the commitment to vacation at the greatest vacation spot in the USA.

 

[brittsmum1998]

AFter reading thru the posts..I usually "visit" at least twice a day, I must agree w/ above. Sgt. you are being awfully negative. You probably received many "positive responses" due to the fact that most people love there DVC. I'm sure we all respect your decision not to buy into DVC but to replay to each post w/ a negative critisism (sp) is something else. DVC is NOt for everyone. I think we all can agree on that. We won the "lottery" recently allowing us the option of adding more pts at our BW home and we grabbed it!! We actually went out to dinner to "celebrate". DVC brings alot of joy to most people who own. For those who aren't happy and own, sell it!! There are tons of people on the waitlist that will grab it at most any price.

 

[Terry S]

Loribell, I completely and totally agree with you. I only started reading these boards about 2 weeks ago and I was completely hooked, just like the first time I walked into WDW. There was so much good information, I just kept coming back for more. The last two days there has only been negativeity (is that a word?). I hope people can get passed this and move on. Lets remember what this board is all about "the happiest place on earth". Tink, how about throwing a little pixie dust on this board and making all the negativeity go away!!

 

[loribell]

a little tired of all the negative responses not just from you but from a few others as well. I have just returned from making my purchase. Hey I love it so much it was a great excuse for another quick trip with cheap airfare. I know I didn't have to do it in person but I love disney.

It just seemed strange that before I left I saw very few negative responses but after I returned there are many. All over speculation of something that no one knows for sure. Some of it has even been confirmed as mistaken. What if those higher rates are because of a special event that would have made rates higher anyway or for concierge level rooms. Then the point cost should be higher, it is higher for a 2 bedroom then it is for a 1 bedroom, isn't it?

I hope some of the negative responses can stop. We all love our Disney, do we not?

 

[sgtpet]

How about reality? Not negativity. To purchase a DVC is more than pixie dust. It is a major decision. All of the sales information/marketing tools pushes flexibility. The Disney Cruise is shown even at the front page of the official Disney Vacation Club site. Now it is apparent that if I want to take the Cruise I would be better doing it on my own than through DVC. Of course if I purchased a DVC I would expect to spend 30-33 years going to that or other DVC resort. But the other 7-10 years I would have chosen a flexible choice. I feel that there is false advertising going on.

So in conclusion, am I negative for bringing this to the attention of individuals that may make a purchase on a DVC resort or is it negative that Disney is misleading the "potential" members with its marketing.

I have no problem with any of you. I am saddened by your negativity for voicing a difference of opinion.

I think we all could use some of that pixie dust for the DVC to correct its marketing schemes.

Honesty is the best policy, not pixie dust.

 

[loribell]

Your's is not just a diffence of opinion. You are putting it in every thread that is posted by someone about points or buying. It has reached the point that it is to much. I'm sure by now everyone knows how you feel. You do not have to buy.

 

[Granny]

I think this board is intended to be a forum for asking questions and discussing DVC. In that mode, the folks that are upset with the apparent rise in DC point costs have a right to make their views known.

Having said that, I think we get the point and that we understand the complaints from those who are disgruntled. Tacking on the same complaint to multiple threads just gums up the boards.

We all concede that if you bought into DVC mainly for the flexibility to trade to DC, then you are justifiably angry.

Just please don't make it your life's mission to add your anger onto virtually every post that gets near the subject.

Thanks,

 

[Chuck S]

I just found how the 'ignore a poster' option works.

 

[Dancind]

Chuck, please let us know how that works! If this poster were actually a DVC member that had a factual reason for feeling cheated by the agreement they signed, I could understand a little venting. But he decided NOT to buy into DVC, and he's still griping. I'm buying, and I don't feel cheated at all, quite the opposite.

 

[Doctor P]

The argument about the 37% increase is fallacious. Remember that the 37% increase, as best we can tell, is one that has taken place over several years. There apparently was no increase in the DC point schedule since 1998, according to earlier posts on the boards. While it may have been easier to take and to understand if the increase had been done a little bit, one year at a time, the simple fact is that the 37% increase over four years is approximately 8% per year (compounded). This is a hefty increase, but hardly highway robbery when one looks at it from this perspective. I, too, would prefer that there not be point increases, and prefer that the jumps not be as abrupt as they apparently were around New Year's in 2002, but the rate of increase, all things considered, is not quite as shocking as it might first appear.

 

[vernon]

Loribell to be fair I think a certain amount of negativity is fair and should be expected WHEN/IF DISNEY IS IN ERROR. EVERY SINGLE DVC owner has a large financial interest in DVC and we have seen an erosion of the benefits over time By definition if the benefits are eroded, so will the value. Not only do we have a financial interest but we all love Disney, care about the place AND WANT TO GO ON VACATION THERE at a time that suits us.

As I explained in other topic the ability to switch into WDW hotels at a sensible cost is important, it isn't just a "nice perk". By definition the points system is very flexible but it has one inherent flaw. That is IF enough of the membership want to visit at the same times, there isn't the capacity at DVC resorts. There needs to be an "over flow" in place to absorb that possibility and it shouldn't be prohibitively expensive. IT IS VITAL in order for DVC to work properly that switching into WDW hotels is a workable option. If someone at Disney has lost sight of that fact then we have the right to try and draw their attention to it, be that writing on boards like these, writing to the management ( which I will be if things turn out as bad as I expect they might) or putting the question at the annual meeting ( if I can find out how to do that).
I can't see an occassion that I would want to use the WDW hotel option but that doesn't mean I'll "keep quiet so not to upset anyone" because I think this is important, not just to me but to anyone that owns. If I sound alarmist, sorry, but I'm alarmed. I'd rather make a noise BEFORE the deal is finalised so it gives management a chance to review their policy before they find they have a full scale riot on their hands BUT they have already printed all the literature and pushed the policy through. IMHO it's going to leave a bad taste in the mouth and it will rightly affect sales.


Whether or not the "new charges" are all as bad as we are led to believe isn't the only issue. I understand that DVC negotiates on a yearly basis BUT it seems to me that it would be sensible if those negotiations covered the year after next not next year. For people to be making bookings but DVC MS not be able to tell them how many points it's going to cost is farcical. This seems to be a major error in the way DVC works and should be addressed. We all know that DVC monitors these boards and I hope that someone there looks at this and says, "yes that is a fair point there is no reason the points cost should be unknown for a booking a year ( or slightly more than a year) ahead, we will address this issue, because it's an obvious error. ".

For Disney to be aware of this problem and not to address it treats all DVC owners with ultimate contempt, it shows "we have your money and we don't care about what you think or how you feel". So this issue is causing high feelings amongst owners who feel legitimately aggrieved.

I'd agree if I had decided not to buy because of this I wouldn't be on a life mission to "sing from the rafters" on every opportunity on boards like these. I'd spend my time more productively telling the sales staff my reasons and writing to the managers of DVC sales to tell them as well. If sales thinks this is impacting their ability to sell, they will be trying to get clarification and alteration in the offending schemes. JMHO

I don't consider it negative to argue for something you care about and that you value ( financially and emotionally), because you want it to retain that value. If you see wrong being done then you have the right to try and correct that wrong. Ideally before the wrong has taken place or is uncorrectable. I'm with Chuck on the "ignore poster" option if I find them not offering anything new after a couple of repeat posts ( some of you may do that with mine LOL )

Dr P , there shouldn't be any "inflationary increases" because the cost of the DVC resorts cash rentals should increase in line with WDW hotels. The "points barter" between them should remain basically constant IMHO.
Take a "cost" of 25 points for a room and build in "inflation" at 8% a year for 40 years. How many points will that room cost in 2042? I've just had to recheck the answer because I couldn't believe it 543 points for a room FIVE HUNDRED AND FORTY THREE POINTS FOR A ROOM FOR ONE NIGHT!!! At what point will you people think that it is unfair to raise the points cost of WDW rooms compared to DVC ones? Doesn't that thought alarm EVERYONE?

 

[dianeschlicht]

Thank you Loribell!

 

[DVCajun]

I'm going to look into that "ignore" option too. I mentioned this strange occurrence to my DH just last night-- why would someone who is NOT a DVC member be hanging out on this board with sour grapes? My time is apparently more valuable than his-- I barely have time to attend to the things I enjoy. I'm certainly not going to spend it on something I don't.

BTW, while I agree that OBJECTIVE negativity can be constructive and is fine, that's not what's going on here. He is not a DVC member, has not experienced the pros let alone the cons. He's not in a position to judge.

One final comment: for those of us who bought into DVC years ago, a 37% increase only validates our decision. To me it's just as rewarding as the equity in my home increasing dramatically. I have NO intention of selling my BWV points, but if I wanted to I could do so at a substantial profit. What's not to love???

 

[CarolAnnC]

I would like to step in here and remind everyone of our DIS Posting Guidelines which includes "No Personal Attacks". We are all entitled to our opinions and we encourage everyone to voice them here on our Boards. Please keep this discussion thread friendly and within Posting Guidelines so that we may keep the discussion ongoing. Thank you!

 

[RobDoc]

For people to be making bookings but DVC MS not be able to tell them how many points it's going to cost is farcical.

While I agree that the size of the change is probably the biggest issue here, the fact that the room rates are just now coming out has always existed at WDW for cash reservations (and these are, in effect, cash reservations- paid with points). If you made a cash reservation in April at GF for January, it would be noted on the reservation that the room rate has not yet been released and may be changed when the 2002 rates are announced.

WDW resorts will accept a cash reservation for a date far in the future, but the rate for that reservation is always subject to change when the rate structure is announced.

I think it's unreasonable to expect DVC to try to negotiate 18-24 months in advance for rates which will be changed and announced 4-5 months in advance. If that were done then DVC would, out of necessity, have to inflate the needed points to cover any possible true increase 12 months later.

In this case, DVC has apparently allowed those who were affected by the large increase to cancel and get full use of their points back. I'll assume that for those who may have reserved and had their point costs decrease, the reduced rate will also be in effect- and the extra points returned to their account.

 

[loribell]

I don't have a problem with people being upset and wanting Disney to know. My problem is with the constant harping on the same thing over and over by a few people. There has been some very alarming info being posted that no one knows is true or not, thereby scaring off potential buyers. That is really sad. Don't we want everyone who wants to to be part of this family. All I'm trying to say is stop posting the same thing over and over again. I think we have the picture and if Disney moderates these boards I bet they do to. That being said I myself will stop harping. Now when can I go back to Disney World, if only I didn't live so far away.

 

[Dancind]

I guess I said a bad word before, sorry. We bought a resale, so being able to use points to stay at WDW resorts didn't even enter the picture. In fact, I was just vaguely aware of it and figured it would be expensive point wise, better to pay cash at AP rates if I wanted a weeked at a different resort. Is this why some of you purchased? Was it sold to you as a major part of the Disney Vacation Club? I've never been to a presentation, wondering if some of the Guides were a little out of line with this.

 

[one_cat]

It really comes down to that every family needs to determine on an ongoing basis why they bought DVC, why they own DVC and whether it makes sense to continue owning DVC. Luckily if a family decides that DVC no longer meets their needs their is a ready market for their points.

For instance we bought mainly so we could stay on-site at WDW inexpensively. We thought this might allow us to spend an occasional weekend and a week at least every other year. We continue to own DVC because it allows us to take vacations to WDW and stay in a room where we can put the kids to bed in a separate room and gives us the flexibility to set-up-house during our vacation. The Washer/dryer and full kitchen are wonderful when you have small children.

The changes to the DW hotel point schedules and cruises don't really affect us because we decided from the first that they were too expensive pointwise anyway. If we take a cruise we will pay cash for it and save our points for the Boardwalk where we get the most value.

Unfortunately it sounds like some people bought DVC specifically so they could use the points at other hotels or on the Cruise line. My understanding from the beginning has been that these perks are not guaranteed - pricewise or availability. Currently they are more expensive than they used to be but they are still available. People who own DVC for these reasons probably need to reevaluate whether they are getting enough value for their money. If not - sell. If I found the value wasn't there anymore for our family I would certainly sell our interest but so far that is not the case.

If you didn't buy because you didn't see DVC as a good value for money - good for you. I'm not sure why you would be bitter over it.

Just my two cents.

 

[vernon]

Doc, I guess you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this, IMHO any price increases/decreases should be matched between the different resorts. I believe they build in PLENTY of margin.

DVCajun, I think you have missunderstood the context of 37% increase, that isn't the increase in value/price of DVC points. That is the increase in the number of DVC points needed to reserve a WDW hotel room if you wish to use your points. For example if you had a booking at the GF that was going to cost a total of 100 points last year it will now cost you 137 points ( roughly) to book the same dates and room type. That is a very rough guideline, so don't anyone pick holes saying you can't book a room at the GF for exactly 100 points , but I hope it explains the situation fully. At a rate of increase of 8% a year a room that currently cost 25 points a night to reserve ( which I think is only a moderate) would in 2042 one room for one night would be 543 points ( FIVE HUNDRED AND FORTY THREE POINTS) Hell I'd have to use two years of points for one night's accommodation, doesn't that thought worry anyone?