Why kids should work hard in school & stay there

[luvmy3]

I insist that my kids earn a college degree. Yes, you can find examles of people without a degree who've done well financially and are pleased with what they've done . . . but you can find more people with a degree who've done well financially. I want my kids to set themselves up for success. I do believe that money can't buy happiness, but I also am certain that poverty is a sure-fire way to be miserable.

I guess when you assume that a not getting a college degree means you will live in poverty its easy to insist on your kids getting one.

 

[luvmy3]

If my kids were commited to taking up a trade, like being a plumber or electrician, which has solid career potential, rather than going to college, I would be fine with that. But that kind of path also requires hard work post-high school, either in a trade school or apprenticeship. These days those types of careers require intelligence, a variety of mechanical, mathematical and computer skills.

What I would not be fine with is having a kid quit their education post-high school and drifting. Our economy is quite different than it was when I was a kid. There were plentiful good paying jobs in the manufacturing sector that didn't require higher education.

Those days are gone. The service jobs that have replaced those manufacturing jobs don't pay well and have lousy benefits.

So, in our family, the default is college, and probably an advanced degree after that.

See, in my family they will know that they just can't drift through life and they will be raised to work hard toward their success, whether that means in school earning their degree or whether that means in whatever job the take out of HS. I of course hope that my children go to college, and earn an advanced degree, however if they choose otherwise I would know that I raised them in a way that they will value hard work and be successful at whatever they choose. If that is not what happens, we will cross that bridge when we come to it, but in no way would I force them to go to college by giving them the ultimatum of that or being kicked out. I expect them to graduate from HS, after that I will encourage them to do what I think is right for them, but I'm not going to make their decision for them.

 

[eeyoremum]

My posts are in referrence to those posters who say that they would throw their child out of their home if they don't choose some form of higher ed (a differnt path from what their parents want).

If my children want to walk a different path so be it. They are welcome too. Once they are old enough to make that decision they are old enough to take care of themselves. I didn't say they were not welcome in my home and I would "be done with them". I simple said that if they chose to work after highschool then they will need to reside elsewhere. I am not supporting them financially. I also tell them they are not living with me forever. Does that make us bad parents too? I will parent my children until adulthood not beyond. Insidently I know excatly what my children want in life and a menial position after highschool is not going to get them there.

So the question was Why kids should work hard in school and stary there? Well maybe because parents will support them and let them know some things are acceptable and somethings are not. In my home school is their JOB. There only JOB. My children do not need or are allowed jobs throught the school year WE provide them with spending money. And in my home some form of higher education is expected and required if they want to live in my home past highschool.

You may think that is mean, nasty or otherwise. I am sure you do things in your home that I would consider mean, nasty or otherwise.

You imply that my children will be happy or I dictate to them how to live an adult life. I don't dicate anything. I simply tell them how it is and they can choose if they are ready to support themselves or take advantage of the FREE education we will provide them.

Exactly

Not everyone is suited to going to college/university. There seems to be a stigma placed on learning a trade. It is very possible to earn a significant amount of money in a skilled trade, and some people enjoy physical labour.

Besides which, if everyone gets a degree it devalues the concept of a higher education.

Having said that, I do believe that everyone should finish high school. But I also think that schools should be structured differently to reflect different life goals. However, I always told my kids to go the highest level they could manage so that they had options when they finished high school, so they could take any direction they chose.

Our system is a tad different here in Canada. Trades are taught at a college level. A college in Canda is wide spread in what is taught. I really don't know enough about your system to know how a College works.

Essentially in Canada a University is more for Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists, Teachers or intellectuals. A College is more hands on Technicians, Computers, Teacher/Library aids, Trades and so on.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

My posts are in referrence to those posters who say that they would throw their child out of their home if they don't choose some form of higher ed (a differnt path from what their parents want).

Oh OK. Then quote it because it gets hairy here.

As far as kicking out a kid if they do not go to college well, I can see where that would apply to some kids.

Some kids are into drinking and drugging and if my dd's went down that path, I would boot them.

Now if they held a full time job and had plans then of course different story. I am open to negotiation.

 

[luvmy3]

If my children want to walk a different path so be it. They are welcome too. Once they are old enough to make that decision they are old enough to take care of themselves. I didn't say they were not welcome in my home and I would "be done with them". I simple said that if they chose to work after highschool then they will need to reside elsewhere. I am not supporting them financially. I also tell them they are not living with me forever. Does that make us bad parents too? I will parent my children until adulthood not beyond. Insidently I know excatly what my children want in life and a menial position after highschool is not going to get them there.

So the question was Why kids should work hard in school and stary there? Well maybe because parents will support them and let them know some things are acceptable and somethings are not. In my home school is their JOB. There only JOB. My children do not need or are allowed jobs throught the school year WE provide them with spending money. And in my home some form of higher education is expected and required if they want to live in my home past highschool.

You may think that is mean, nasty or otherwise. I am sure you do things in your home that I would consider mean, nasty or otherwise.

You imply that my children will be happy or I dictate to them how to live an adult life. I don't dicate anything. I simply tell them how it is and they can choose if they are ready to support themselves or take advantage of the FREE education we will provide them.




Our system is a tad different here in Canada. Trades are taught at a college level. A college in Canda is wide spread in what is taught. I really don't know enough about your system to know how a College works.

Essentially in Canada a University is more for Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists, Teachers or intellectuals. A College is more hands on Technicians, Computers, Teacher/Library aids, Trades and so on.

You are getting quite defensive here, I never said that you were bad parents, mean or nasty.
However I would never do that to mine, because I see it as cruel to toss them into a world they are not truly ready for just because they choose not to continue their education past the HS. If my children decide that instead of college they want to continue to only work after HS (which they will be doing already because they will have to work as soon as they are legally able to), then to me that is no different than them *working* on their degree. They will be allowed to live in my home until they are ready to move out. And no, they won't be there forever. I didn't go to college and was out on my own, paying my own bills (which I did while living at home, including rent to my father) by the time I was 20.
Obviously you see it differently and thats fine for you.

 

[luvmy3]

Oh OK. Then quote it because it gets hairy here.

As far as kicking out a kid if they do not go to college well, I can see where that would apply to some kids.

Some kids are into drinking and drugging and if my dd's went down that path, I would boot them.

Now if they held a full time job and had plans then of course different story. I am open to negotiation.

I did quote them (at least I'm 99% sure I did), but you know how threads here go, they evolve and re-evolve.
I also stated that I was talking about the higher education issue. Drinking and drugs are a different issue and would be handled differently and definitely wouldn't be on topic for this thread


Did I use the words different and issue enough

 

[bettymae1121]

I'm glad that you've done very well, but you do recognize, of course, that you're an exception to the rule. The majority of high-school diploma only workers don't come close to what you're describing.

Actually, I think it's more common than a lot of people think. None of my immediate co-workers (who make the same as I do, or more in my boss's case) have degrees, neither do most of my DH's co-workers, who also makes around what he does. I have a friend that works in the same field as I do and while she does make less (her company doesn't pay as well, unfortunatly) she still makes good money and has decent bennifits.

According to our friends at Wiki, as of 2005 about 85% of US adults have a HS diploma and about 28% of those have a Bachelors. So that's a lot of people that don't have a 4 year degree in this country.

Now, I'll never argue that having a degree most certainly increases you earning potential over your working lifetime, the stats don't lie about that either. But just because a person with a degree earns more over their working career vs. someone who doesn't, it also doesn't mean that the person that earned less as a result of not having that college ticket punched lived in poverty, or even among the lower classes.

I don't have kids, but if/when I do, I'll certainly hope they go to college and will encourage them to do it, even if they want a trade I'd love to see my kid(s) with a business degree so they can run their own construction or plubing business once they have the nessesary experiance in the trades (or restaurants or auto shops, or whatever). I think that having a college education is better than not having one. But not everyone is college material, as other's have stated. My DH is one of the smartest people I know, but he'd do misserable in school because he's just not built for it.

I guess my point is while having a college degree is a great thing (and children should be encouraged to go that route if they are the type that would do well in college), having only a HS diploma isn't the end of the world either. A lot depends on the individual in question and how hard they are willing to work and how carefully they choose their field, but really, isn't that true of everyone, regardless of education?

 

[suejai]

Our system is a tad different here in Canada. Trades are taught at a college level. A college in Canda is wide spread in what is taught. I really don't know enough about your system to know how a College works.

Essentially in Canada a University is more for Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists, Teachers or intellectuals. A College is more hands on Technicians, Computers, Teacher/Library aids, Trades and so on.

I know, I'm from Canada too

 

[LuvOrlando]

In the United States we have Trade Schools for trades, and Specialty Schools for specialized non-accredited diplomas and certificates which are common for certain industries such as Information Technology & Health care ect.

The term College generally applies to post secondary education institutions which usually are accredited, meaning they meet certain standards for the courses necessary to grant particular degrees such as a BS or BA. Some colleges even offer Associates in addition to the Bachelors.

The Term University generally applies to an institution which houses multiple Colleges, such as NYU.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I am so sorry to hear that so many parents are still using the fact they get first dibs on rights regarding money to hold kids back. When I was in school I had a DF whose divorced father was a complete . Although he never gave her a dime he declared his daughter a dependent with the IRS and as a result, she couldn't get ANY help at all with paying for school. Her hands were tied then and I'm sad to hear little has changed.

Personally, I think there should be some kind of federal institution set up where young adults could force their parents to back up claims of dependency and where kids could seek to have themselves declared financially independent just by proving they pay their own way.. So many of these laws are antiquated and simply do not reflect our current society. After all if a kid happens to be the product of marriage #1 and both parents are on marriage & family #3, chances are support is more legally demanded than given willingly which means come 18 that kid is cut loose, high & dry. Never-mind the kids who get cut off when the step parents pop in and kick them to the curb... it happens. Meanwhile, the laws were written with a Happy Days 1950's expectation of parental involvement. The disconnect can be pretty damaging to many kids. It's a shame and it happens because kids never ever seem to have a voice .

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I did quote them (at least I'm 99% sure I did), but you know how threads here go, they evolve and re-evolve.
I also stated that I was talking about the higher education issue. Drinking and drugs are a different issue and would be handled differently and definitely wouldn't be on topic for this thread


Did I use the words different and issue enough

Yes.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

The judgments that are made on this board on a daily basis never cease to amaze me.

Neither of my brothers have a college degree but they're both in the military doing very well for themselves, thankyouverymuch.

I paid for every penny of my college education and will not sit back and listen to anyone refer to my parents as selfish.

And more than anything, I really wish people would realize that there is no direct correlation to one's self-worth and the size of one's paycheck.

 

[Plannin'Shannon]

I paid for every penny of my college education and will not sit back and listen to anyone refer to my parents as selfish.

 

[MrsPete]

I guess when you assume that a not getting a college degree means you will live in poverty its easy to insist on your kids getting one.

So many assumptions made in between my statements. No point in even addressing it.

Actually, I think it's more common than a lot of people think. None of my immediate co-workers (who make the same as I do, or more in my boss's case) have degrees, neither do most of my DH's co-workers, who also makes around what he does.

The statistics do say that it's fairly uncommon for a person with only a high school diploma to earn as much as you do. Of course, someone's going to be the exception to the rule -- and in this case, it's you. We can't assume that our own little bubbles are representative of the world as a whole.

Personally, I think there should be some kind of federal institution set up where young adults could force their parents to back up claims of dependency and where kids could seek to have themselves declared financially independent just by proving they pay their own way.

Having been a product of such a situation myself, I don't disagree with you . . . but I don't see any way it could be done. In many cases -- several described here -- the kids really go the bad end of the stick, and I'd love to see that changed.

However, I wouldn't want to see it changed so that kids could essentially declare themselves independent, get government money AND STILL really get cash from Mom and Dad on the sly. LOTS of people would be perfectly willing to set up such a situation to qualify for college money -- and they wouldn't be the ones who really need help. Also, I don't think parents should automatically be REQUIRED to pay for their children to go to college. I absolutely intend to pay for my children, but they're good students and are working towards that goal. IF they were not progressing well academically, if they were perhaps involved in negative behaviors (I'm thinking drug use here, but that's not the only possibility), then I wouldn't want to be forced by the government to fund college.

If this were an easy question, someone would've solved it.

 

[diznygirl]

I guess when you assume that a not getting a college degree means you will live in poverty its easy to insist on your kids getting one.

Oh, I agree! When I was in high school and I saw that a newspaper reporter could make $17,000 a YEAR I was estatic! I just HAD to go to college and rake in the bucks!




Seriously, some people don't get a college degree for the money. And they know it going in.