Why is it everytime I fly on a plane,

[crashbb]

To recline your seat a little is fine, but reclining it the WHOLE WAY, unless you are in business or first-class is totally rude. Yes, the seats were built to recline, but most of the planes used today are 20-25 years old and they used to have fewer seats then and much, much more leg room. (Ask anyone who's been flying for 25-30 years, like me, about the differences in air travel then.) The airline industry started trying to squeeze as many seats in as possible to make more money, at the passenger's travel comfort expense. On my last flight, the guy in front of me reclined the whole way for the entire flight making it impossible for me to use my tray table to work. If he had only reclined 1/2 of the way or even a 3/4 of the way, I would have had no problem. He never even bothered to look behind to see if I had any leg space at all - which I didn't - making my entire flight miserable.

???

They didn't add more (old style) seats to the planes they either made new planes or, when retrofitted, new seats. On the old planes (with more leg room), the seats reclined more than they did now. The amount of recline takes into account seat pitch (hence, BC or FC seats recline more).

 

[sbell111]

The "pivot point" of the seat doesn't move at all. That's why it's called a "pivot point".

I guess the question would be how much movement is there at the part of the seat that is at the same level as a person's knees.

But as I said before, the seats are intended to be reclined. If you don't fit when the person in front of you reclines the seats, you should fly another airline or book first class.

Her point was still a good one.

If the top of the seat only moves a couple inches, the part of the seat that is at knee level, near the pivot point, must barely move, at all.

 

[Deb in IA]

I bet that the airline would have a major problem with people using these.

Apparently, they don't.

What the FAA Says
The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) was asked about the use of Knee Defenders.

As reported in the October 28, 2003 edition of The Washington Post:

"FAA spokesman Paul Takemoto said the clips were not against federal aviation rules as long as they weren't used during taxiing, takeoffs or landings."

Knee Defenders™ are specifically designed to be used with your tray table lowered, while your tray table must be up and locked "during taxiing, takeoffs or landings."

So, as long as Knee Defenders™ are being used as they are designed to be used in flight, their use does not violate any US aviation law, rule, or regulation.

 

[NYPDwife]

I wonder if the person in front of a Knee Defenders user complained, would they KD device have to be put away?

 

[wvjules]

I wonder if the person in front of a Knee Defenders user complained, would they KD device have to be put away?

I would hope so. I would be furious if someone behind me used those so I couldn't recline. Its MY seat to recline or not.

 

[FergieTCat]

The "pivot point" of the seat doesn't move at all. That's why it's called a "pivot point".

I guess the question would be how much movement is there at the part of the seat that is at the same level as a person's knees.

But as I said before, the seats are intended to be reclined. If you don't fit when the person in front of you reclines the seats, you should fly another airline or book first class.

What if the person next to me puts up the armrest? After all, those aren't permanently in place either. If I can't fit because the person next to me raises his or her armrest, should I fly another airlines or book first class?

 

[maxiesmom]

I didn't say I didn't try hard - it was a horrible flight for me, because my entire focus was trying to get my ds to stop kicking! However, the flight would've been much more enjoyable for me and the man in front of ds if he didn't recline his seat.

But maybe the flight would have been horrible for the gentleman if he didn't recline. So who's comfort has priority? I would say the person using the seat in a manner it was intended to be used, which would be the man in front of you.

 

[sbell111]

Have you considered using knee defenders?

I bet that the airline would have a major problem with people using these.

Apparently, they don't.

What the FAA Says
The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) was asked about the use of Knee Defenders.

As reported in the October 28, 2003 edition of The Washington Post:

"FAA spokesman Paul Takemoto said the clips were not against federal aviation rules as long as they weren't used during taxiing, takeoffs or landings."

Knee Defenders™ are specifically designed to be used with your tray table lowered, while your tray table must be up and locked "during taxiing, takeoffs or landings."

So, as long as Knee Defenders™ are being used as they are designed to be used in flight, their use does not violate any US aviation law, rule, or regulation.

The quote from the FAA makes no mention of whether individual airlines have approved these devices to be used on their aircraft.

 

[TinklednPants]

Apparently, they don't.

The FAA doesn't because it's of no consequence to the saftey of the flight.

I can guarantee you the airlines would take issue.

 

[bicker]

Especially after Help Me Hank starts getting people refunds because the airline refused to help a passenger deal with someone unfairly preventing them from using the recline on the airline seat.

 

[brockash]

The seats recline---why in the world wouldn't you recline your seat if they are MADE to recline?? I dont care if the person in front of me reclines their seat, I recline mine and go to sleep.

ITA! When I fly, I fully expect that the person in front of me will recline their seat. The seat is meant to recline, why on earth would you not expect someone to use it???? I don't find it rude at all, as that's what it's there for

 

[FireDancer]

What if the person next to me puts up the armrest? After all, those aren't permanently in place either. If I can't fit because the person next to me raises his or her armrest, should I fly another airlines or book first class?

If the person next to you puts it up you can just pull it right back down, I would.

 

[FergieTCat]

If the person next to you puts it up you can just pull it right back down, I would.

So if the person in front of me reclines his seat, should I push on it REALLY HARD and REPEATEDLY so he understands he's encroaching on my personal space?

Again, why is it OK for someone to recline their seat all the way back but not put up the armrest?

 

[MichelleVW]

If the person next to you puts it up you can just pull it right back down, I would.

me too...

So if the person in front of me reclines his seat, should I push on it REALLY HARD and REPEATEDLY so he understands he's encroaching on my personal space?

Again, why is it OK for someone to recline their seat all the way back but not put up the armrest?

Not the same thing...if the person puts up their armrest then they are personally touching you....if they recline the seat in front of you, their seat is closer to you, they aren't physically touching you.

 

[crashbb]

So if the person in front of me reclines his seat, should I push on it REALLY HARD and REPEATEDLY so he understands he's encroaching on my personal space?

Again, why is it OK for someone to recline their seat all the way back but not put up the armrest?

Because, the reclining is a feature that comes with the seat. Lifting the arm rest is fine - flowing over into your seat (i.e. taking about 1.5 seats when paying for one seat) is not.

One (reclining) is included in the price of your ticket, the other (taking over someone else's seat is not).

That is why one is okay and the other isn't.

 

[FergieTCat]

Because, the reclining is a feature that comes with the seat. Lifting the arm rest is fine - flowing over into your seat (i.e. taking about 1.5 seats when paying for one seat) is not.

One (reclining) is included in the price of your ticket, the other (taking over someone else's seat is not).

That is why one is okay and the other isn't.

I don't agree or disagree but I do find these justifications interesting.

 

[FireDancer]

So if the person in front of me reclines his seat, should I push on it REALLY HARD and REPEATEDLY so he understands he's encroaching on my personal space?

Again, why is it OK for someone to recline their seat all the way back but not put up the armrest?

Not the same at all. The armrest is shared while the seat is not. I am the only person who has say over the angle at which I keep my seat back. Both people who share the armrest have a say over its state.

 

[m&m's mom]

I don't think it's rude to recline one's seat at all. I just don't do it personally because it makes an already uncomfortable flight worse for the person behind me. I'm surprised that airlines haven't gotten rid of the reclining seats to be honest.

If you know your actions make someone else's flight more uncomfortable than that is rude.
The reason I do not like recling seats are if I, or anyone else in my row, have to use the restroom it is much more difficult to get past people if someone in front of them has their seat reclined. You are invading their space enough by trying to get to the aisle, it is really bad when you have to lean over to get past the reclined seat.

 

[dawson5]

*disclaimer: I hate to fly. If I can drive it, I will.

I can both sides of it. It seems to be a comfort issue. Why is one person's right to be comfortable during a flight more important than another's? (seats are able to recline, armrest are able to be put up, why is one right and not the other?) Just a little bit of courtesy could make an enjoyable flight for all concerned.


Then there are those people that just love to stir up things and nothing will make them happy except having a reason to complain.

It also sounds like there are different levels of recline on different airlines. We've only flown two, I think there are only three at our local airport. We were limited to Delta and Continental, they just added Allegiant within the past few years. One person's idea of recline on a flight might be entirely different from what another has seen. Last time we flew, I don't remember anyone leaning back enough to hinder my ability to be comfortable during the flight. We flew Southwest (had to drive into Chicago to get flight). My first ride was on Delta, I was sitting straight up the whole way, scared the bejeebies out of me, especially when we hit turbulence, don't remember much of that flight let alone people reclining their seat.

 

[DizBelle]

So if the person in front of me reclines his seat, should I push on it REALLY HARD and REPEATEDLY so he understands he's encroaching on my personal space?

Again, why is it OK for someone to recline their seat all the way back but not put up the armrest?

The extent of the recline of the seat in front of you is in the personal space of the person in the seat in front of you. If they aren't using it to recline their seat, then you are free to use it. But they have dibs on it to recline into if they choose to do so.

The arm rest is shared by the two adjacent seats. Neither one has dibs. Although, if the two people do not know each other, it is polite to leave it down to maintain separation. I do not want a "love seat" situation with someone I don't know.