Why I hate the Airlines - RANT!

[jtm1631]

This thread has taken some interesting turns. Let me start by saying I sent a brief fax to American Airlines yesterday requesting that the seat be changed back to 14F. Within two hours I had received an email back stating that my daughter had been moved back to seat 14F and an apology. Sorry Pinnie, that's just the way it is.

For those of you making assumptions on why this seat was purchased with American and why we purchased when we did, unless you know the personal circumstances of me and my family you can only guess what is going on. And so far in this thread you are guessing wrong.

I found this especially funny. This is a quote from Pinnie in this thread:

While I try to understand WHY some people need to have their airfare 6 months in advance, I just can't. I would rather fly a sure thing than make reservations, pick seats, etc. only to have to to check them every few weeks to make sure they are still there. I would rather wait and get a flight I KNOW will leave at the time it is posted! It seems a lot more stressful to me to make reservations and then have to keep checking to see if they have changed!

Seems Pinnie is always sure of when she will be flying because she books so close to her flight date. This is a quote from the thread NORTHWEST CHANGED OUR FLIGHT TIMES!, also from yesterday, also by Pinnie:

I dislike NWA for just this reason. I am a FF with them and it seems that no matter when or where I book with them, they will change my flight for some reason!

So much for "flying a sure thing" huh Pinnie?

Since I fly for business on a regular basis, checking my personal reservations at the same time is not stressful.

My issue is not that the seat was changed, it is how American handled the phone call Sunday night. If the conversation had gone like this, it would have been no problem...

Me: It seems my daughter's seat was changed for our upcoming flight, can you move her back next to the rest of the family.

AA: Let me take a look at what happened Mr. X. I see that when the flight time was changed the system reassigned seats and for some reason your daughter was moved to seat 10B while the rest of your seats were unchanged. I apologize about the inconvenience, let me see what I can do. Unfortunately at this time all seats are booked. My computer system here does not allow me to reassign the person in 14F so that I can move your daughter back to her original seat assignment. I would suggest that you contact our Customer Relations department, explain the situation to them and see if they can reassign your daughter to 14F. Customer Relations computers will allow them to do this if it is at all possible. The other option is at the time you check in for the departing flight or the return flight, check with a desk agent and see if the seats can be reassigned at that time. The desk agents will do everything they can to make sure your family is all seated together. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience.

Me: Thank you very much, I will contact Customer Relations and see if they can help. Good night.


See how easy that was? In my business we call that customer service and treating a client with respect. A pretty simple phone call.

And Pinnie, don't think for a minute you have any idea why I need to make arrangements so far in advance for my family. If you knew the reasons why you would be embarrassed by your narrow minded comments.

JT

 

[Lewisc]

The problem with asking advice on the internet is that people who are trying to help always have to make assumptions.

People answering your questions are only quoting rules and their own experiences. Ask the right person and, as you found, you'll get a different answer. Companies give exceptions all the time.

The general observations are still valid. The low fares we're demanding doesn't allow the airlines enough money for decent service. It never made sense to move your child in the first place. Now if your row was going to be reserved for elite travelers I could see all of you getting moved but that's a different issue.

People booking more than a few months out have to face the fact that there is a good chance their flight will be changed and that their seat assignments may get cancelled.

This thread has taken some interesting turns. Let me start by saying I sent a brief fax to American Airlines yesterday requesting that the seat be changed back to 14F. Within two hours I had received an email back stating that my daughter had been moved back to seat 14F and an apology. Sorry Pinnie, that's just the way it is.

For those of you making assumptions on why this seat was purchased with American and why we purchased when we did, unless you know the personal circumstances of me and my family you can only guess what is going on. And so far in this thread you are guessing wrong.

 

[jtm1631]

The problem with asking advice on the internet is that people who are trying to help always have to make assumptions.

People answering your questions are only quoting rules and their own experiences. Ask the right person and, as you found, you'll get a different answer. Companies give exceptions all the time.

Perhaps you should read the OP again. I was not asking for advice. I was not looking for suggestions on how to resolve the situation, nor was I asking people to make assumptions about my situation (if I had, I would have given more information about my personal circumstances). I was merely relaying a situation that I found frustrating because of the attitude of American Airlines. Again, I understand seat assignments are changed and I understand the reason why. I also understand the hierarchy of passengers on most major airlines. My complaint was the attitude of the phone agent on Sunday. All that needed to be done was to treat the customer with respect.

JT

 

[wintergreen]

JT,

I must say that I completely agree with your rant. I made a similar one on another thread in this forum. Others have said that one of the airlines' most important concerns is safety. Could someone please explain to me what is safe about small children being separated from their parents on a flight?

 

[Lewisc]

I re-read your post. You weren't specifically asking for advice. By the time I read the thread I didn't take the time to carefully read your initial post.

BUT your post was a rant against AA and posters are entitled to take AA side in the issue. Sorry but it is a reasonable assumption that someone posting about a problem might be interested in hearing some possible solutions.

Glad you got your seats back. I do think your post serves as an example of poor airline service.

Perhaps you should read the OP again. I was not asking for advice. I was not looking for suggestions on how to resolve the situation, nor was I asking people to make assumptions about my situation (if I had, I would have given more information about my personal circumstances). I was merely relaying a situation that I found frustrating because of the attitude of American Airlines. Again, I understand seat assignments are changed and I understand the reason why. I also understand the hierarchy of passengers on most major airlines. My complaint was the attitude of the phone agent on Sunday. All that needed to be done was to treat the customer with respect.

JT

 

[Lewisc]

JT,

I must say that I completely agree with your rant. I made a similar one on another thread in this forum. Others have said that one of the airlines' most important concerns is safety. Could someone please explain to me what is safe about small children being separated from their parents on a flight?

Small children are required to be seated with their parents. JT's child was 10. I certainly understand the family wanting to sit together and I'm glad her wishes were accommodated BUT a 10 year old sitting by himself is not a safety issue.

The low fares we're demanding doesn't really leave any money on the table for customer service. SAD BUT TRUE.

$79 fares aren't low enough and people are waiting, dreaming, of $49 SW specials. You can't even fill your gas tank twice for that.

Previous posters are correct. Most of attempts to charge more for better service have failed.

 

[wintergreen]

Small children are required to be seated with their parents. JT's child was 10. I certainly understand the family wanting to sit together and I'm glad her wishes were accommodated BUT a 10 year old sitting by himself is not a safety issue.QUOTE]

I beg to differ. I have a 10 year old, and I do not think that she would be able to handle an emergency situation on her own. I also would not want to have to rely on a stranger to help her with an oxygen mask, exit the plane, etc. Sorry, I disagree.

 

[Sherrilatte]

I beg to differ. I have a 10 year old, and I do not think that she would be able to handle an emergency situation on her own. I also would not want to have to rely on a stranger to help her with an oxygen mask, exit the plane, etc. Sorry, I disagree.

I agree. I have had my son's seat changed on two occasions (8 and 11) to another middle seat and the person he sat next to was very large (on both occasions ) Of course both times, the men sitting next to me refused to move. After this happened a second time, I got a bit suspicious, but I guess it was just a coincidence.

Also, am I the only one who will pay more to an airline that provides me with a roomier seat and decent snacks--especially on cross country flights?

 

[jtm1631]

The low fares we're demanding doesn't really leave any money on the table for customer service. SAD BUT TRUE.

This makes no sense to me. How is it that an employee sitting in a call center has any less responsibility to be courteous based on the profit of the company? If I work in customer service I have a responsibility to treat people with respect regardless of the financial position of the company I work for.

The lack of customer service is a much broader problem that affects not just the airline industry, but every aspect of people's lives.

 

[tracy51]

Unfortunately, I think its a sad, but true fact - you get what you pay for with airlines. You want cheaper fares - expect less, including customer service. I don't think its right, but I do think that's how it is.

We're going to Disney at the end of July. It will be the first time for my DD (11) to fly. I truly hate to think of how it would be if our seat assignments changed and she was separated from my BF & I. As long as 2 seats were together, he would switch seats with my DD so we could sit together. But if all 3 of us were split.... Honestly, before reading this post I didn't realize it was such a big possibility and maybe its not - just quite a few people posting that 's happened to them and not many people posting saying they haven't had a problem.

To the OP - I'm glad you found someone to help you and I understand why you needed to rant. Trust me, if the 3 of us get split, AA will have to deal with a very panicked mother. And if nothing else, some great advice in here for ways to deal with a very stressful/frustration situation.

 

[bicker]

While the airlines don't guarantee you a particular seat assignment, they do owe you the seat that they actually did assign.

Well, they actually don't. They may have an obligation to do their best to accomodate your in the seat you originally were assigned, in consideration of all the other (perhaps equally valid) demands there may be on that seat, but no obligation to actually do it.

The reason why the business class business model is not working for businesses known as airlines is that fewer and fewer businesses are flying their business men and business women on business trips in business class.

There's that, but also because many businesses have learned how to fly their business passengers on leisure fares.

 

[bicker]

People answering your questions are only quoting rules and their own experiences. Ask the right person and, as you found, you'll get a different answer. Companies give exceptions all the time.

Great point, and where a lot of folks get into trouble is assuming that they're "entitled" to any exception that any other person has ever gotten. It just doesn't work that way in real life.

The general observations are still valid.

Another great point. Knowing the rules and individuals' personal experiences, both advantageous and disadvantageous, helps folks calibrate their expectations, so that they're more reasonable with respect to the way things really work.

The low fares we're demanding doesn't allow the airlines enough money for decent service.

Of course, that depends on what is meant by "decent service." Clearly, the flying public has voted, with its wallet, for the perspective that the service is good enough for the price charged, such that they don't sufficiently reward a higher priced, better quality airline.

 

[bicker]

Sorry but it is a reasonable assumption that someone posting about a problem might be interested in hearing some possible solutions.

Hehe... my wife informes me this may be a Men are from Mars issue -- women are often looking to express a sentiment about a problem they experienced, while men are more often looking for a specific remedy for a problem they experienced.

How is it that an employee sitting in a call center has any less responsibility to be courteous based on the profit of the company?

It's more a matter that it costs more to employ a consistently-better quality of call center agent. The responsibility of an individual agent isn't the issue -- but rather the relationship between compensation and the likelihood the the agent will perform at a specific level.

 

[Pedler]

This makes no sense to me. How is it that an employee sitting in a call center has any less responsibility to be courteous based on the profit of the company? If I work in customer service I have a responsibility to treat people with respect regardless of the financial position of the company I work for.

The lack of customer service is a much broader problem that affects not just the airline industry, but every aspect of people's lives.

But I think a lot of it does go pack to profitability. How much a company pays and what workload the company places on people in a call center has a huge impact on customer service. It would be nice to think all employees are beyond letting thier workload and pay influence how they do thier job but that just isn't how it works.

For example if a company cuts its call center staff in half to handle the same number of calls, i.e. doubles the workload of the remaining workers, and then cuts thier pay I don't think it is a far stretch to think that morale and then customer service will decline.

 

[Lewisc]

The employee may be under trained. For that matter he may not have the necessary access to move a passenger from one seat to another. Do the airlines want a system where any telephone operator can move a passenger just because another passenger wants that seat? Your fax to customer service got a person with authority to consider your reasonable request. May be judged on how fast he gets you off the phone and moves on the next customer. If that's the case a quick, sorry I can't help you makes sense, from the employees perspective. It's even possible the call center is outsourced to India.

This makes no sense to me. How is it that an employee sitting in a call center has any less responsibility to be courteous based on the profit of the company? If I work in customer service I have a responsibility to treat people with respect regardless of the financial position of the company I work for.

The lack of customer service is a much broader problem that affects not just the airline industry, but every aspect of people's lives.

 

[Lewisc]

Airlines like American and Midwest found not enough passengers would pay enough extra to provide roomier seats.

Also, am I the only one who will pay more to an airline that provides me with a roomier seat and decent snacks--especially on cross country flights?

 

[seashoreCM]

I agree. I have had my son's seat changed on two occasions (8 and 11) to another middle seat and the person he sat next to was very large (on both occasions )

Also, am I the only one who will pay more to an airline that provides me with a roomier seat and decent snacks--especially on cross country flights?

If someone is using part of your child's seat or part of your seat and your child or you are unduly cramped, ask for a different seat immediately, before departure.

This request the airline must grant or give bump compensation for. Ask for the complaint resolution officer if needed, again before departure. You might say that the airline must provide decent and proper seating.

Don't wait until the plane gets up in the air to see what happens. You do not want an obnoxious person bothering your child all flight long.

We are not talking about roomier seats. We are simply talking about the right to all of an existing seat.

 

[Pinnie]

I am finished with this thread after this post. It seems the OP wants to resort to name calling and I won't participate any more. I wasn't the only one who was called a name on this thread and I do believe there are guidelines in place for that behavior.

Yes, I DO fly legacy carriers when the no frills ones don't fly where I need to go.

I am happy the OP was able to get the situation resolved.

pinnie

 

[NotUrsula]

If you really don't like it that the airlines will not pledge to seat school-aged children contiguously with their parent/guardians, the best course of action is to write to your Congressional representative. These are the members of the US House Aviation Subcommittee: http://www.house.gov/transportation/aviation/membership.html The airlines are only doing what they allowed to do under current FAA regulations; if you want them to guarantee that kids under a certain age stay next to parents, then the regulations need to change. (This would also fix the yahoos who deliberately seat their kids separately.)

The UK Civil Aviation Authority (their equivalent to our FAA) has a rule that says that children 12 and under must be seated within arm's reach of the adult who is accompanying them. Their reasoning for this is that the parents are likely to panic and impede an emergency evacuation by trying to get to their children rather than just leaving the plane. (Apparently school-aged kids actually are more likely to leave exactly as they are told, because they are conditioned by fire drills in school.) Airlines operating in the UK that do not assign seats must pre-board families who are travelling with children 12 and under, so as to obey the rule.

The US regulation re: the seating of children on commercial aircraft says nothing about proximity to the accompanying adult *unless* the child is occupying a carseat, in which case the rules say that the accompanying adult must be seated next to the child so as to remove the child from the carseat in an emergency. If the child is old enough to fly as an unaccompanied minor (age 5 or older), most of the airlines have internal rules that say that he/she must fly as an unaccompanied minor unless there is an accompanying adult seated in the same cabin. (In other words, parents who try to fly FC while dumping their under-12 kids in coach are supposed to pay up for that privilege.)

It really should not be a hardship for the airlines to be required to keep children with their adults when doing automated seat reassignments. The passenger records already have a space to categorize a passenger as an elite-status flyer, so it should be entirely possible to use that byte to make note of special seating conditions such as being a minor, responsible for a minor, or disabled. What that would do is allow passengers so coded to go to the top of the program's reassignment queue regardless of what fare they paid. If that software can use elite FF status and the fare class to place passengers in the queue and also factor in their stated seat preferences, then it can handle situations like this, too.

 

[bicker]

If you really don't like it that the airlines will not pledge to seat school-aged children contiguously with their parent/guardians, the best course of action is to write to your Congressional representative.

However, be careful what you wish for. Legislating this could result in a situation whereby families with young children will have a far more difficult time booking desireable airline reservations. For example, the legislation can be crafted so that airlines are prohibited from confirming reservations for families with young children unless there is contiguous seat assignment availability. (I could go on for a few pages about why that would be the most likely outcome, with the current conservative, pro-business bias we have in Congress, but that would be rather boring.)

It really should not be a hardship for the airlines to be required to keep children with their adults when doing automated seat reassignments.

Says who? While I agree with you that the technology could readily be added, that doesn't account for the impact on the ability to do business profitably. Anything that skews patronage away from the lucrative business traveler and toward the leisure traveler is a hardship, especially in an environment where half the legacy carriers, some of the largest employers in our country, are on the brink of financial demise.