Why I hate the Airlines - RANT!

CarnotaurDad said:
I don't think there is any person who would refuse to trade the seat with your daughter.

Oh, there are people out there like that. In fact, last time I flew I noticed a little boy seated across the aisle from me on a commuter prop plane with a 2-1 configuration, then noticed the Flight Attendant talking to his mother a couple of aisles up. At first I thought the little boy was having a little "sitting alone on an airplane" adventure, but overheard the FA say something to him like "are you sure you'll be all right?" I got the FA's attention and said I'd switch with the mother if she'd like, and I did. I found out later that the mother had three seats in the same aisle for herself, the boy, and a younger child, but some jerk who boarded before they did decided he wanted a seat closer to the front, and I guess the mother didn't want to make a big hassle over it.

Double check when you get to the airport and see if the gate agents will switch the seats. Maybe if they see in person that a minor was switched from her parents, they'll do something. If not, see if the person will switch. If that doesn't work, get into the Disney spirit in midflight and have everyone in your party sing "It's a Small World" as a round. :teeth: :teeth: :teeth:
 
I strongly believe that there should be some sort of committment when the airlines allow you to select your seats. People choose seats for a reason. People buy early for a reason. They want to sit together or have certain seats they want. IF airlines are going to offer this option, they should honor the seat assignments.

My dad and I flew to California about 10 years ago. Our flight home was changed and he was put on an 1100am flight to Salt Lake City and I was put on the 1220 flight! Thats right, we were put on DIFFERENT flights to SLC! He sat at Salt Lake City and waited for me. We then flew home together. Another group on my plane to Salt Lake City was seated all over the plane. I had been given the last row in the plane and had a lot of extra leg room. They asked me to switch with them and I politley explained that my father had been sent on another plane and I would like to keep my seat with the extra leg room. They totally understood. At least they were on the same plane and the seat they wanted me to move to was a middle seat.... this was on Delta.

It is this reason that I like flying Sun Country Airlines of of Minneapolis. All seats are assigned upon check in. I can log on 24hrs in advance and choose my seats. They do not change. Many people check in at the airport and get their seats then. Simple. There is no false expectations with choosing your seat early.

Have a great trip. All will work out. :mickeybar

Duds
 
bicker said:
There is a big difference between a "concern" and a "commitment".

Given the fact that American Airlines lists this information under the headline "Customer Commitment," I'd say they are making a commitment.

And I believe that airlines are dishonest. I had two different people at US Air customer service tell me parents would never be separated from their children in flights and that we would absolutely sit together. They told me that the gate personnel would see to it! Whether the customer service personnel are misinformed or didn't want to be the bearers of bad news, I was misled.

When I travel solo, I don't care about where I sit or if I get moved. Flying with children changes things considerably.

Personally, I never book the cheapest flight and if an airline promised not to switch my seats in return for a higher price, I'd book that airline.

I agree with you that given the "how cheap can I get it" climate and the resulting financial troubles of airlines, things are not going to improve any time soon in air travel.
 

Personally, I didn't find ANYONE rude who replied to the OP.

The fact is that when you purchase a ticket from any carrier, all you are buying is a seat...NOT a specific seat. The airlines resever the right to change the schedule and the equipment and therefore your seat. Like someone already stated, your assignement is merely a suggestion.

It could be that AA combined a flight and someone with a ton of FF miles gets the better seat. Also, like CarolA stated, someone who paid more for thier ticket gets priority.

SWA does have it right. By not publishing their schedules until they absolutely have to, the flying public can rest assured that the flight they pick WILL be the one they will fly on, barring weather or mechanical delays. I often put off as long as I can booking on a legacy carrier for just that reason. I booked early on a SPIRIT flight for June and already it's changed twice.

SWAs open seating makes everyone an equal.

pinnie

Sorry, OP, but that is the way it is!
 
That's a great point Pinnie, but just reading the forums today you can see that there are people displeased with the fact that Southwest hasn't released certain upcoming dates yet. We can't have it all.

Southwest has a problem, though. They're greatly benefiting, today, from the youth of their systems. The legacy airlines have union-backed seniority systems and other legacy systems that greatly affect their cost structures. If Southwest is not careful, they could get themselves into the same mess as the legacy airlines are in.

Unfortunately, it does seem that the choices we've got are either disappointing service or deliberately low levels of service. The market doesn't seem inclined to provide a profit-incentive to airlines to provide a higher level of service.
 
Disney Ella said:
Given the fact that American Airlines lists this information under the headline "Customer Commitment," I'd say they are making a commitment.

And I believe that airlines are dishonest. I had two different people at US Air customer service tell me parents would never be separated from their children in flights and that we would absolutely sit together. They told me that the gate personnel would see to it! Whether the customer service personnel are misinformed or didn't want to be the bearers of bad news, I was misled.

Disney Ella,

Welcome to corporate marketing 101. That is the same stock jargon that just about any large corporation says. The airlines are not alone in overstating thier commitment to customer service. I know it would be nice to just one have one of them use some type of slogan such as

"You can buy better but you can't pay more!"

But it is just not going to happen.

I agree with bicker that the airlines are giving people exactly what they want as expressed with thier buying decisions. Everyone complains about airlines services, seat size etc. but if the choice was to spend an extra $50 per ticket on a carrier that provided good service vs. a poor service carrier most people would choose the lower cost. Airlines know that people value price over service and are giving them what they want. Its unfortunate but as another poster said we are paying less in real dollars today for air travel than 20 years ago and air travel is available to a much wider group of people now than it has ever been.

Time to get off of soap box now.
 
bicker said:
That's a great point Pinnie, but just reading the forums today you can see that there are people displeased with the fact that Southwest hasn't released certain upcoming dates yet. We can't have it all.

Southwest has a problem, though. They're greatly benefiting, today, from the youth of their systems. The legacy airlines have union-backed seniority systems and other legacy systems that greatly affect their cost structures. If Southwest is not careful, they could get themselves into the same mess as the legacy airlines are in.

Unfortunately, it does seem that the choices we've got are either disappointing service or deliberately low levels of service. The market doesn't seem inclined to provide a profit-incentive to airlines to provide a higher level of service.

While I try to understand WHY some people need to have their airfare 6 months in advance, I just can't. I would rather fly a sure thing than make reservations, pick seats, etc. only to have to to check them every few weeks to make sure they are still there. I would rather wait and get a flight I KNOW will leave at the time it is posted! It seems a lot more stressful to me to make reservations and then have to keep checking to see if they have changed!

I totally agree with you about the legacy carriers and SWA. The NWAs and AAs of the world have a lot of retired employees that they have to support on the backs of LESS employees. I can see the same thing happening with our Big 3 auto companies here in the Detroit area. More retirees than employees!

SWA does have a few things going for them. Their pay rate/structure is a lot different then the legacies. Also, they maintain a fleet of the same types of planes.

In a way I think we created the monster ourselves. We are an "entitlement" society. We want top notch service with bargain basement prices. It's hard when a seat is purchased by one passenger for $79 and the guy next to him paid $800. The structure is insane!

When I buy a ticket, I buy passage from point A to point B. I don't care about what they serve, what magazines they have on board, or what the seat pitch is. I wish I just had that to worry about but that is a whole 'nuther thread. :rolleyes1

pinnie
 
I work for a aircraft charter company and as you may know, our prices are much higher than the airlines, but as we tell everyone, you are paying for convience, service, and your time. That is how our customers look at it. You get what you pay for.

We are living in a time when it is many times cheaper to fly than drive. That is a bit off balanced to me. The airlines must start to adjust their prices to start to make a profit, or they will continue to require the federal government to spend MY tax dollars to help them out. I do not like to pay more taxes to help a business that can not set a price point high enough to make it.

Sorry for the rant.....just had to get it off my chest.
 
jackskellingtonsgirl said:
Will the airlines LET you switch seats without them orchestrating it? Don't they insist on knowing who is in each seat at any given time? For security reasons or in the event of a crash, don't they need to KNOW who is who? Just curious. :confused3

NO THEY DON'T. SW has "open seating" and they don't know who is in ANY SEAT.
 
Disney Ella said:
Personally, I never book the cheapest flight and if an airline promised not to switch my seats in return for a higher price, I'd book that airline.

I think they should offer that option.
 
last year on our family trip to Hawaii (there were 18 of us)

and we were actually scatered all over the plane!!!

MY mom and me booked everyone with the TA all at the same time.

my two nephews who were 8 and 5 were both sitting by themselves!!

Not a good idea

half of us had seats right away when we booked the other half were supposed to get seats at the airport the day of travel!!!! my sisters family had it the worse my DBIL and 2 nephews had seats although they were all over the plane and my sister was supposed to get her seat at check in!!!!

When we asked the TA about the seats she was no help at all (we'll never to go her again)

so the next day I got on the phone with United (I got the best customer service rep I ever had!!! He was great!!!)

He couldnt figure out why we were all over the place when there were plenty of seats open.

It took over 1/2 hour but he got us at least with familes together.

I had told him we didnt have to all sit next to each other but at least familes should be together!!!

He totally agreed and kept thanking me for my patience!!!

I even found out from him what I needed to do to let the airlines know what a great job he did.

He seemed to pleased that someone asked so I did what I needed to do so he got his recomendation!!!
 
Alice Sr. said:
I think they should offer that option.

They sort of do. Many airlines give preferential seating to full fare and first class passengers.
 
Just a comment to Dznypal about the airline being able to help when the TA couldn't/wouldn't, and half the seats not being assignable:

The airlines hold a certain number of seats back and restrict them to "airport checkin only". Depending on who you talk to you'll get different numbers for how many, but one NW agent told me 40%.

The agents at the airlines sometimes seem to be unwilling to work with travel agents. I don't know why, but I know that it's true. I had a file a few years ago with a family flying on NW, and I wasn't able to get seats preassigned. I called the travel agent line and spoke with a rep there who told me nope, sorry, nothing they can do. Period. Okay, no problem. I called the regular line (had to wait on hold for 40 minutes) and spoke to a rep there posing as one of the passengers. Explained that there were kids in the party and we needed to make sure everyone was seated together. Sure, no problem, they were able to assign seats for me even though it was technically restricted.

It makes no sense to me, but that's just sometimes how it is. Now some TAs are a little opposed to calling the airline and basically lying about who they are, but as far as I'm concerned it can either be me making the call and spending 40 minutes on hold or my client, and if one of us is going to have to call anyway it might as well be me. I'm just client-by-proxy more or less.
 
Disney Ella said:
When I travel solo, I don't care about where I sit or if I get moved. Flying with children changes things considerably.

Personally, I never book the cheapest flight and if an airline promised not to switch my seats in return for a higher price, I'd book that airline.
.

Americans tend to say this, but.... Midwest started out with the great idea of people will pay for bigger seats, home baked cookies, great service etc....People wouldn't pay.

AA came up with "more room throughout coach" because when surveyed folks said they would pay more for more leg room.... Didn't work, AA is quietly doing away with "more room" and craming more seats in to get the additional revenue.

I fly First Class a lot... Not many of us up there actually pay for it anymore. (Now granted my $800 walk up fare does help me get there! LOL!)
 
CarolA said:
I fly First Class a lot... Not many of us up there actually pay for it anymore. (Now granted my $800 walk up fare does help me get there! LOL!)

I agree CarolA. The only time you will find ME in first class is if I get a free upgrade with my WorldPerk miles! I won't pay for it. My way of thinking is that the back of the plane gets to the gate at the same time as the front. Sure the seats are roomier, but it isn't worth the extra $$$ to me at this time in my life.

pinnie
 
Pinnie said:
In a way I think we created the monster ourselves. We are an "entitlement" society. We want top notch service with bargain basement prices. It's hard when a seat is purchased by one passenger for $79 and the guy next to him paid $800. The structure is insane!
I couldn't have said it better myself.

jenndisney said:
The airlines must start to adjust their prices to start to make a profit, or they will continue to require the federal government to spend MY tax dollars to help them out. I do not like to pay more taxes to help a business that can not set a price point high enough to make it.
This is my most recent rant about the airline industry. I've got 200,000 US Airways frequent flier miles, but for the life of me I cannot understand why they're still in business? What logic is there in that? What greater good is served by the incredible risk that has been foisted on the backs of the American taxpayer to float this airline a few more months? Given the understanding that the industry has too many carriers already, why is it in the public interest to save this one and thereby degrade the chances of United's and Delta's survival?
 
Amberle3 said:
The agents at the airlines sometimes seem to be unwilling to work with travel agents. I don't know why, but I know that it's true.
Keep in mind that the airlines have radically different priorities than the travel agents.

The airlines' priorities start with safety, something which travel agents never have to concern themselves with, simply because it is the airlines' responsibility and because both the airline and its regulators do a very good job assuring that safety procedures are followed. One of the aspects of safety that is relevant to this situation is that there are a number of seats on-board which cannot be assigned -- that I would never WANT to be assigned -- without a rational judgement being made as to the occupant's capability to step-up in an emergency and help others.

Another priority for the airline's is reducing their financial losses (trying to achieve profitability). The travel agent has their own profitability to worry about, and only the largest travel agents have any concern about the profitability of the airlines they book transportation on, and even then, that concern is infinitessimal. So while it would be in the travel agent's interest to help their own customers get what they want, the airline needs to balance the concerns of all customers, as well as operational efficiency (which is yet-another thing which the travel agent can blissfully ignore, because it is solely the airline's responsibility and concern). No dig on travel agents intended here -- I would suspect greatly the business sense of a travel agent who did NOT operate in the manner I suggest.

Remember that the airlines are revenue-sharing with the travel agents, so they expect some measure of value-added on the part of the travel agent. Passing the burden of satisfying the customer onto the airline itself is counter-productive from the airline's perspective. While they still consider each mutual customer as their own, it is reasonable for them to expect some value-added from the travel agent for the money they're sharing with the travel agent, i.e., that the travel agent sets reasonable expectations and handles provision of customer service within the boundaries of the travel agent's capability, rather than foisting the situation back on the airline. For example, a good travel agent could have found alternative flights that had sufficient open, contiguous seat-assignment availability, or could have assuaged the customer's concern about getting seats together on the day of the flight, thereby safeguarding the airline's operational flexibility.

Situations like this do reveal the weakness in the travel agent industry. It has become increasingly difficult for travel agents (especially smaller travel agents) to demonstrate the value they add to the process, at least to the extent where it justifies the amount of revenue shared. In recognition of this, over the years the amount of revenue shared has been cut. In many cases, this has been followed by a marked decrease in quality of service from the travel agent (for example, more cases where the travel agent abrogates responsibility and deposits an unsatisfied customer on the supplier). We've recently discussed this on Cruise Critic -- many cruise lines are now placing far tighter controls on travel agents, in addition to cutting their commissions.

By the same token, there are some incredible travel agents out there, that not only do a great job as an agent of the airline, but provide a superior service to their mutual customers. There are gems out there... just a bit hard to find, perhaps.
 
Obi-Wan Pinobi said:
Oh, there are people out there like that. In fact, last time I flew I noticed a little boy seated across the aisle from me on a commuter prop plane with a 2-1 configuration, then noticed the Flight Attendant talking to his mother a couple of aisles up. At first I thought the little boy was having a little "sitting alone on an airplane" adventure, but overheard the FA say something to him like "are you sure you'll be all right?" I got the FA's attention and said I'd switch with the mother if she'd like, and I did. I found out later that the mother had three seats in the same aisle for herself, the boy, and a younger child, but some jerk who boarded before they did decided he wanted a seat closer to the front, and I guess the mother didn't want to make a big hassle over it.
While the airlines don't guarantee you a particular seat assignment, they do owe you the seat that they actually did assign.

The mother in the scenario should have asked for compensation, perhaps complimentary meals if those are normally purchased, not only for the inconvenience but more important to give an incentive for the airline to take sanctions such as docking miles and medallion/elite/gold privileges from passengers who break rules.
CarolA said:
Americans tend to say this, but.... Midwest started out with the great idea of people will pay for bigger seats, home baked cookies, great service etc....People wouldn't pay.

AA came up with "more room throughout coach" because when surveyed folks said they would pay more for more leg room.... Didn't work, AA is quietly doing away with "more room" and craming more seats in to get the additional revenue.

I fly First Class a lot... Not many of us up there actually pay for it anymore. (Now granted my $800 walk up fare does help me get there! LOL!)
The reason why the business class business model is not working for businesses known as airlines is that fewer and fewer businesses are flying their business men and business women on business trips in business class.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

Next trip: mid May 2005
 














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