Why I don't like free dining

[rutgers1]

I had read through some of the threads where people complained about it, and I had read the responses, which seemed to make sense to me. In particular, the argument that the dining people were paying "rack rates" made sense. However, last night, I decided to look into the difference between staying at my studio and staying at a regular room at my favorite Disney hotel, POR, during my upcoming visit in August. As it turns out, the room at POR only costs about $150 a night, including the free dining. For my family of four, that is almost the cost of dining alone. In other words, if we were to book at POR, we'd get the room for just about the price of food alone, which we'd have to pay for anyway. Under this scenario, considering I am just as happy in a SSR studio as I am in a POR hotel room, my DVC investment doesn't look so hot.

Yes, an SSR studio offers a bit more than a POR room. However, when you consider that I dropped thousands of dollars up front and pay monthly fees that exceed the price of paying rack rate for a POR room during this time period, it doesn't seem like such a great thing. I do realize that free dining is a limited time offer, and I also realize that DVC offers more options, such as 1 and 2BR villas. However, I am sure that there is a sizable group out there like me who stays in studios - and many of those people have vacations that fall during free dining. So, for those people, not only is it more difficult for them to get ADR's, but they are paying a lot of money for their Disney experience compared to the people who jumped on the free dining offer.

I think a fair compromise is to offer DVC owners a dining discount during "free dining" times. I realize that they don't have to since they already have our money, but I think it would be a nice gesture.

 

[gkrykewy]

I think that's a fair point.

 

[keishashadow]

i don't like it either, yet they didn't ask my opinion

DVC members weren't able to purchase the DP the 1st year it was offered, as it was tied into WDTC packages. We experienced it the 2nd month they rolled it out during resort stay & were hooked (especially since appetizers & tips were included then). There was a push set up here with many members emailing MS for the opportunity to purchase the plan & they complied

IMO it still is a great perc, and with DVC there is no ticket purchase or minimum stay requirement (last i checked). Our travel patterns have changed & I haven't purchased APs for 2 years, nice to find a perc that fits my needs.

we are studio DVCers too, never spend much time in our room @ Disney and just glad to be able to utilize the deluxe resort amenties for value rates (if u factor $10 point)

perhaps i misunderstood ur post,your monthly dues are = to a week's stay @ POR , perhaps your contract is too large for your needs then might want to check out smaller resale for more flexibility as to booking deals thru WDTCo.

btw, many have reported booking a value room, checking in & never stepping foot into it...they just pick up their room key/w dining credits & apply the 1 day tix they bought to next year's AP/ticket purchase. (Can't see myself ever going quite so far lol.) Then either bank their points or allow friends/family to experience the magic.

There is no guarantee free DP/bounceback, etc. will continue to be offered once the economy rebounds, they started it after heavy hurricane season, may just be cyclical-think deals after 9-11.

 

[rutgers1]

I meant that my total annual fees (or whatever you call them) is more than what it would cost to get a room at POR for a week (if you subtract the money that you would normally be spending on dining). In other words, if the room only costs me $30 after you consider what I would have spent on dining, then 30x7=210. I think I spend about $750 on annual fees.

The value resort idea is an interesting one. So, if I were already booked into DVC, and I already had annual passes, could I just get a value room so that I could get the dining? I think it would cost less to get that room than to pay for the dining. Would they allow that? That seems like a loophole that Disney would close.

 

[BostonDisneyKid]

In particular, the argument that the dining people were paying "rack rates" made sense. However, last night, I decided to look into the difference between staying at my studio and staying at a regular room at my favorite Disney hotel, POR, during my upcoming visit in August. As it turns out, the room at POR only costs about $150 a night, including the free dining. For my family of four, that is almost the cost of dining alone. In other words, if we were to book at POR, we'd get the room for just about the price of food alone, which we'd have to pay for anyway. Under this scenario, considering I am just as happy in a SSR studio as I am in a POR hotel room, my DVC investment doesn't look so hot.

Where did you get the figure of $150 a night (with free dining and mandatory park ticket)? I just priced it out as the $150 a night seemed low. The base price for free dining package for 6 nights in Aug (16-22) for 2 adults and 2 kids at POR as quoted on-line direct from disney is $1711.68 with a 1 day base ticket (required). Add another $639 to make those 6 day base tickets so it would be $2350.68 for a family of 4.

I am not sure where you got the $150 figure from - - according to my math ($1711.68/6) that equals $285.28 a night with a 1 day ticket or $391.71 a night with a 6 day base ticket.

A studio at SSR for the same dates is 84 pts (or $840 if you were to rent the points at $10). Add $600 (2 adult 2 child. 6 nights) for DDP and you're at $1440. Add in the 1 Day Base ticket $300 and you're at $1740 - So its a savings of about $4.72 a day. I'd take the DVC studio for the extra $4

 

[Luv2trav]

I also have to consider the time of year free dining is offered. It is expanded more this year because of the economy but typically it's offer end of Aug-end of Sept... If you are OK traveling during this time and POR is good enough for you then perhap DVC doesn't make sense...

For myself I like the Deluxe hotels and travel spring thru early summer and occassionally in Dec.. DVC makes sense for us..

 

[dr&momto2boys]

Where did you get the figure of $150 a night (with free dining and mandatory park ticket)? I just priced it out as the $150 a night seemed low. The base price for free dining package for 6 nights in Aug (16-22) for 2 adults and 2 kids at POR as quoted on-line direct from disney is $1711.68 with a 1 day base ticket (required). Add another $639 to make those 6 day base tickets so it would be $2350.68 for a family of 4.

I am not sure where you got the $150 figure from - - according to my math ($1711.68/6) that equals $285.28 a night with a 1 day ticket or $391.71 a night with a 6 day base ticket.

A studio at SSR for the same dates is 84 pts (or $840 if you were to rent the points at $10). Add $600 (2 adult 2 child. 6 nights) for DDP and you're at $1440. Add in the 1 Day Base ticket $300 and you're at $1740 - So its a savings of about $4.72 a day. I'd take the DVC studio for the extra $4

That sounds more like the comparison I did too. And you based it on the price you could rent the points for rather than what it actually costs you (which is less) and it still comes out to be a great deal!

 

[Deb & Bill]

... Under this scenario, considering I am just as happy in a SSR studio as I am in a POR hotel room, my DVC investment doesn't look so hot. ....

Your first mistake was considering DVC an investment. It's just a prepaid vacation that you still have to pay something each year. DVC doesn't offer us ''gestures". We get bills for our dues.

You may consider a SSR studio to be comparable to a POR hotel room, but there still is a big difference.

But why should only the members staying in Aug and Sept get a discounted dining plan? DVC doesn't have rooms galore vacant in Aug and Sept like the non-DVC resorts. They need to offer a discount for members who stay on Fri and Sat nights. That's when you'll find more vacant rooms at DVC resorts.

 

[Caren]

I have to come up with more points to visit in early August because I refuse to be there during free dining in late August. Dining is quite difficult enough without that added complication.

 

[dopeyone]

I like free dining, although not a perk for DVC it saves me points for my Dec. and Feb. stays. I would've stayed on points in Aug/Sept., with the DDP. For less than $200 I could stay at POR which is a fine resort, get the dining for free and pocket the points I was going to use. Works great for me. For less than $200 I saved 225 pts. , which I will use for longer stays in Dec. and Feb.

 

[Mtnman44]

Two points -

-Is free dining offered all year, every year? Nope. So to get the value from free dining you have to limit yourself to a small window out of the year.

-No guarantee that hotel rates will always be so favorable. There are ups and downs and we are in a down right now. Over 40 years, I'm sure DVC will still come out ahead.

 

[rutgers1]

But why should only the members staying in Aug and Sept get a discounted dining plan? DVC doesn't have rooms galore vacant in Aug and Sept like the non-DVC resorts. They need to offer a discount for members who stay on Fri and Sat nights. That's when you'll find more vacant rooms at DVC resorts.

I think the August/September people should get discounts for no other reason than it sends a bad message when someone who owns DVC can do better by banking their points and jumping in with the masses and taking Disney up on their free dining offer. I think they should consider it because I imagine that there are people out there right now who are considering buying into DVC who are saying, "That doesn't seem right. Forget DVC, we'll just plan our vacations for discounted times, especially when there is free dining." Realistically, that family won't be able to only travel during those times, but I bet more than a few will use that as an excuse not to buy into DVC.

I guess I am in the group that feels that by buying DVC I made a significant lifetime commitment to Disney, a commitment that your average vacationer doesn't make, a commitment to attend that I wouldn't have made had I not bought. So, not only did they get my 20K up front, a lifetime of annual fees, but they also got a lifetime of dining, park tickets, and souvenirs. That is a lot of money. I know that there is a group here who think that we should be happy with the few perks that we get and that our "lifetime of prepaid vacations" is good enough, but I am in that group that feels that Disney needs to make sure that they appreciate the commitment that was made. When a regular timeshare company sells you a timeshare, they are happy to take your initial payment, annual fees, and really very little else over the course of your lifetime. Disney, however, gets much much much more from you over the years, which is why I think that commitment should be better valued.

Someone asked earlier how I reached my figures. Yesterday, I plugged in a room (standard) for POR for August 16-21 (no park tickets or any other upgrades) and received a price of about $150.

John

 

[CarolAnnC]

Free Dining is offered on packages that are sold at rack rate with park tickets purchased as well. I don't think $150 is rack rate for a moderate...

 

[Deb & Bill]

I think the August/September people should get discounts for no other reason than it sends a bad message when someone who owns DVC can do better by banking their points and jumping in with the masses and taking Disney up on their free dining offer. I think they should consider it because I imagine that there are people out there right now who are considering buying into DVC who are saying, "That doesn't seem right. Forget DVC, we'll just plan our vacations for discounted times, especially when there is free dining." Realistically, that family won't be able to only travel during those times, but I bet more than a few will use that as an excuse not to buy into DVC. ...

John

But I still don't understand why Aug/Sept DVC members should get discounted dining. Those rooms are already booked months out because that's when those members go. If there was a massive glut of room during that time, THEN maybe DVC would need to do something to increase the use of the rooms. Like lower the number of points needed to book the rooms during that time like they did with weekends. Evidently that wasn't the case because those months didn't get lowered when they reallocated points.

People who buy into DVC for discounts and perqs are buying in for the wrong reason.

 

[jco_direwolf]

Where did you get the figure of $150 a night (with free dining and mandatory park ticket)? I just priced it out as the $150 a night seemed low. The base price for free dining package for 6 nights in Aug (16-22) for 2 adults and 2 kids at POR as quoted on-line direct from disney is $1711.68 with a 1 day base ticket (required). Add another $639 to make those 6 day base tickets so it would be $2350.68 for a family of 4.

I too would like to see where the $150/night is booking is...

Because I just looked at 1 day admission, 5 nights, Sunday-Saturday in Aug with free dining for 2 adults @POR standard view, and I ended up with 194.65/night ($1,167.90.)

We have APs so we don't need it the passes.

If I booked DAKV studio it would cost me 91 for a SV, or $546 ($100/50 [buy-in] + $4 [MF]) or $91 per day...A 1 Bedroom would be 182 pts or $1092.

johno

 

[Tara]

I think the August/September people should get discounts for no other reason than it sends a bad message when someone who owns DVC can do better by banking their points and jumping in with the masses and taking Disney up on their free dining offer. I think they should consider it because I imagine that there are people out there right now who are considering buying into DVC who are saying, "That doesn't seem right. Forget DVC, we'll just plan our vacations for discounted times, especially when there is free dining." Realistically, that family won't be able to only travel during those times, but I bet more than a few will use that as an excuse not to buy into DVC.

I guess I am in the group that feels that by buying DVC I made a significant lifetime commitment to Disney, a commitment that your average vacationer doesn't make, a commitment to attend that I wouldn't have made had I not bought. So, not only did they get my 20K up front, a lifetime of annual fees, but they also got a lifetime of dining, park tickets, and souvenirs. That is a lot of money. I know that there is a group here who think that we should be happy with the few perks that we get and that our "lifetime of prepaid vacations" is good enough, but I am in that group that feels that Disney needs to make sure that they appreciate the commitment that was made. When a regular timeshare company sells you a timeshare, they are happy to take your initial payment, annual fees, and really very little else over the course of your lifetime. Disney, however, gets much much much more from you over the years, which is why I think that commitment should be better valued.

John

Yes, but these promotions run to 1) fill rooms that would otherwise go empty and bring no revenue (DVC rooms have already brought revenue, even if empty, and can bring more through breakage, if I understand correctly) and 2) to convert the less committed into more committed. Promotions are not about rewards, which is what I really think you're getting at - you want your buy in rewarded. Right? If they start rewarding Aug/Sept DVCers with free/discounted dining, then what about all the other promotions. Where do they draw the line? At what point will we lose other perks to compensate?

As for Disney getting much, much more from members over the years - people understand that their food and travel and admission isn't paid for when they buy in, right? If people don't want to spend that extra money, then they ought not buy DVC, right?

And if people don't buy into DVC because promotions are better, they are banking on promotions always being there. That is most assuredly not going to be the case. Yes, there will be promotions from time to time, but not every year for 50 years.

But look at it another way - I think BLT members should get extra discounts because we paid the most per point. Or BLT members should get extra discounts when booking MK views since those rooms require more. Or Grand Villa guests should get fast passes, but not 2br guests. Do you really want to set up a system that favors only some members? (To be clear, I don't think any of that, just giving examples.)

 

[photobob]

Free Dining is offered on packages that are sold at rack rate with park tickets purchased as well. I don't think $150 is rack rate for a moderate...

Actually during that time period the rack rate quoted for a standard view is $149.

 

[rutgers1]

I plugged it into the main Disney World site yesterday with my wife by my side and we got $149/night, with no tickets or other upgrades, standard room.

To the past few posters, I agree that at some point the perks and discounts can't go on forever, and you can't treat some DVC owners differently than others, but then again, DVC owners going at different times of the year are rewarded by paying less in points. For whatever reason, no other discount that I have heard about bothered me in the least aside from free dining. To me, that one is too much, and maybe I hit that "too much" threshold when I couldn't get some of my ADR's that I used to get with ease at other times of the year that are, on the whole, more crowded (April break). The thought that I couldn't get some desired ADR's because people got them who were paying $150/night (WITH free dining) got them really upset me. At that point, I double checked the rates and realized that I might have been better off banking my points and booking a room at POR.

To the person who commented on my breakdown of the extra money I have invested into Disney, here are my thoughts. Most people who buy into DVC fall into one of these categories:
1) You have the DIE HARD fans who always went at least once a year and who will always go at least once a year. For them, DVC is super ideal.
2) You have the people who were regular visitors, but not necessarily every year visitors. Some are regular visitors now (perhaps they have young kids), but odds are they would have changed their vacationing habits later (perhaps when kids are older).

I fall into the second group above. Without DVC, I would have gone every other year for now, and I honestly can't say how frequently I would have gone once my kids got older. I might have intended to go every other year, but there is a good chance that other things might have gotten in the way of that (new interests, new vacation home somewhere else, etc.). So, by me buying into DVC, Disney is getting THOUSANDS of annual dollars that would not have gone to them otherwise. In fact, this year, I am going twice. I am even bringing another family for one of the trips. While some people think that they are saving money over what they would have spent at Disney without DVC, that is definitely not the case for me, as my other trips would have been cheaper closer-to-home type trips (Jersey shore) for the most part......It isn't that I am remorseful at all. Rather, I just want to see Disney continue to acknowledge and appreciate the fact that many people - including me - committed to a lifetime of Disney vacations, which is a commitment way above and beyond just lodging (park tickets, souvenirs, dining, etc.). That is a huge commitment. So, to that end, considering DVC is a growing percentage of their on-site guests, I think they should consider how DVC members would feel when they come out with new promotions.

On the restaurant board, someone said that they should allow paid guests a longer booking window for ADR's and provide a shorter window for free folks. I know that would be hard to organize, but that really made sense to me. Some people said that it wouldn't be fair to those people. However, it isn't like they wouldn't be able to eat anywhere, rather they would be relegated to off-peak times as well as non "must visit" restaurants. I think that is a fair trade-off for free meals. Perhaps that can't happen, but all I can say is that, if something isn't done, this will be my last time visiting during the free dining window. I know they won't miss me, but it bothers me enough to sour me on the time period. Heck, it even sours me enough to not want to visit this board during that time period.

By the way, I am MUCH more happy in real life

 

[jco_direwolf]

I plugged it into the main Disney World site yesterday with my wife by my side and we got $149/night, with no tickets or other upgrades, standard room.

From Aug 24 - 29 POR Standard View, room only (which doesn't get you free dining) is showing me $979 (Or $195.80/night.) So yea it's $149/night plus tax... But as I said that doesn't include the free dining.

johno

 

[M5ward]

We joined DVC because for far too many years we took NO vacations. Making this committment assures us that, yes, we will leave the stress and aggravation of real life behind a couple of times a year. It also affords us the opportunity to treat our kids and their young, growing families to vacations they might have to struggle to afford (they do pay their own airfare and park tickets and treat us to some meals.) But...that being said, I think that when you make that financial and emotional (emotional because we love Disney)committment, a little token of appreciation once in a while might be nice. Those tokens don't even have to cost anything.
I have been harping on the same thing for quite some time now. DVC members usually book seven to eleven months out from their desired dates. Often when you book those dates, promos like free dining haven't even been offered yet. When your already booked vacation becomes a time that they offer free dining, you can kiss a lot of the ADRs you would like to make good-bye. At absolutely NO cost to Disney or DVC or whoever, going back to the 180 day prior to check-in time frame to make ADRs, would take us (DVC members) out of a losing competition for ADRs.
I put this in writing to Member Services (or someone), got a call from a lovely MS rep. who wanted me to explain the idea. Also got a follow-up call after that.
I don't want anything for free. I love my DVC. Just want to be able to eat somewhere if I ever do go during a free dining promotion.
End rant!!