Why hasnt disney Built more Monorail Hotels?

[disneypofq05]

When we were down in Disney in July we took a tour and learned that a certain percentage(I can't remember how much) is protected. Some of the land around Epcot is protected and therefore nothing else can be built.

 

[eclectics]

When we were there in early September I was surprised at how crowded the Monorail was and how long we usually had to wait for a train. Either they pulled some trains for cost reasons or it is, indeed, at capacity. Stayed at the Poly, by the way. Would love to see a new deluxe but I don't think it's going to happen any time soon. I wonder what class of hotel gives Disney the most profit in the long run. I'm going to guess it's the "values" because of sheer volume.

 

[SpoonfulofSugar]

My 2 cents-- Disney has 4 theme parks with only two linked to the monorail system. If it stayed this way and more resorts were added along the current route, the MK and EP would be way too over populated and AK and DS would be under used. I personally much rather go to the park that is easiest to get to on days I'm tried or short on time.

 

[Sammie]

1. Because monorail line is EXTREMELY expensive to run.
2. Because the monorail is at capacity.
3. Because most of the land around the MK hotel loop can not be built on for environmental/engineering reasons.

I think that WDW offers pleny of hotels that are close to parks. They are all deluxes because being that close to a park is a perk of staying deluxe.

Anne

That pretty much sums it up, the only thing I can add is it is also very expensive to lay track for the monorail, even if it was just a station at a resort.

 

[jarestel]

As I'm thinking of it, the monorail's time, being a 1960's era idea, is probably over. ( too expensive to build and maintain, and not able to move the volume of passengers that would be needed ). I'm sure the Disney "imagineers", if given an opportunity could come up with something better than buses as the main transportation option for WDW. Once the price of diesel fuel goes up to a certain point, we'll begin to see other modes of transportation appear, but I don't think any of them will be monorails.

 

[bicker]

Indeed, and this begs the question, "What do we want: Show or transportation?" If the issue is how crowded the monorails are now, then the answer is "transportation" and so the satisfaction of that simply could come from more busses. If the answer is "show" even in part, then that begs the next question: "How much extra are you willing to pay for that?" The answer is probably one thing in our hearts, and something completely different when it comes time to open up our wallets!

 

[momof3disneyholics]

Read the ORIGINAL POST. I said the EPCOT MONORAIL LINE. It would be no more expensive all youd have to build is a station along the currently built monorail. I highly doubt the Epcot line is at capacity if anything it is underused.

It does seem like there is alot of land on that line that could be used for a hotel. It would be nice if Disney would build a monorail hotel that could be a value for families and not just for those that can afford deluxe.

 

[bicker]

The problem is that it would become so popular and desired, that it would be irresponsible to not charge extra for it, and they'd be pretty-much back where they started.

The area the OP is talking about is the bottom-right corner of this aerial photo:
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=17&X=277&Y=1962&W=1&qs=|Kissimmee|FL|

I have often wondered the same thing -- that spot looks like a great spot for a new deluxe, to me. That patch of forest is larger than all four of the Epcot resorts, and have monorail access, though obstructed, in a very pretty way, by a little lake.

 

[Waggy182]

1. Because monorail line is EXTREMELY expensive to run.
2. Because the monorail is at capacity.
3. Because most of the land around the MK hotel loop can not be built on for environmental/engineering reasons.

I think that WDW offers pleny of hotels that are close to parks. They are all deluxes because being that close to a park is a perk of staying deluxe.

Anne

Wrong.

The monorail is less expensive to operate than a ground bus fleet;
Additional monorail trains would increase capacity;
The land around Seven Seas Lagoon is not "environmentally sensitive" and can be developed at any time. (Seven Seas Lagoon is man-made, for those that did not know), and is not under the juridiction of South Florida Water Management District. It is under the Reedy Creek Improvement District, which was created by Disney, (one of Walt's early stipulations for developing WDW in Florida).

The MK monorail line was in place for 18 years before the Grand Floridian was built on it. Building new resorts on the Epcot Line is very feasible. If you see an aerial shot of the Disney property, you will see how very little is actually developed.

 

[sotoalf]

Wrong.

The monorail is less expensive to operate than a ground bus fleet;
Additional monorail trains would increase capacity;
The land around Seven Seas Lagoon is not "environmentally sensitive" and can be developed at any time. (Seven Seas Lagoon is man-made, for those that did not know), and is not under the juridiction of South Florida Water Management District. It is under the Reedy Creek Improvement District, which was created by Disney, (one of Walt's early stipulations for developing WDW in Florida).

The MK monorail line was in place for 18 years before the Grand Floridian was built on it. Building new resorts on the Epcot Line is very feasible. If you see an aerial shot of the Disney property, you will see how very little is actually developed.

Do you have evidence to back up your statements? I know for a fact that, for example, the land between the CR and TTC was discovered to be too unsteady to support a hotel foundation, let alone a hotel. Also: the assertion that operating the monorail costs LESS than running a bus fleet is simply wrong.

 

[DebbieB]

I think the main question is do they need to increase room availability at this time? Are the deluxe resorts frequently full and they have to turn people away? I don't think so. Would the cost of building the hotel be made up by increased overall revenues? Considering there are no non-DVC hotels under construction or announced, I don't think they are looking to increase room availability. Are the additional sections for Pop Century under construction, or did the scrap that?

 

[ducklite]

It does seem like there is alot of land on that line that could be used for a hotel. It would be nice if Disney would build a monorail hotel that could be a value for families and not just for those that can afford deluxe.

That makes noe sense. It would cost millions to just add a station to existing monorail track. That cost has to be passed on someplace, and it's not going to happen at a value resort. Value resorts are built with value in mind. You get minimal amenities, based on the rate you pay.

ANYONE CAN afford a deluxe, they choose not to. You can save longer, stay less nights, take less trips. It comes down to your priorities. Do'nt expect deluxe amenities at a value resort. Amenities cost money to offer, they are not free. That cost has to be recouped someplace. Or were you thinking they would do it to be charitable?

Anne

Anne

 

[ducklite]

Wrong.

The monorail is less expensive to operate than a ground bus fleet;
Additional monorail trains would increase capacity;

The estimated cost to build a monorail far exceeds the cost to buy a fleet of buses. It would take over thirty years to break even. The monorail was originally built without cost in mind, when Disney was raking in bucks and shareholders were happy. Read Bicker's post for the rest. BTW if you take the capacity of one monorail train, and spread it between three monorail resorts, it's not that efficient. My guess is that you could put the same number of people, if not more, on three buses which require less manpower to operate--three drivers as opposed to nine CM's for one monorail--one driver and two in each station. Labor is an expense you must think of in your equation.

The land around Seven Seas Lagoon is not "environmentally sensitive" and can be developed at any time. (Seven Seas Lagoon is man-made, for those that did not know), and is not under the juridiction of South Florida Water Management District. It is under the Reedy Creek Improvement District, which was created by Disney, (one of Walt's early stipulations for developing WDW in Florida).

That land isn't envirnmentally sensitive, however it's not stable enough to build on. Some of the land on the Epcot line IS environmentally sensitive. Disney is committed to Environmentality, and they have dedicated a large part of the plot as greenlands.

The MK monorail line was in place for 18 years before the Grand Floridian was built on it. Building new resorts on the Epcot Line is very feasible. If you see an aerial shot of the Disney property, you will see how very little is actually developed.

IMHO the MK monorail is at capacity and can not handle another 2000 guests per day. The Epcot monorail line *perhaps* could, although again, much of the land between Epcot and the TTC is dedicated open space.

It's all moot anyhow. WDW has OBVIOUSLY determined various business models for resorts. Seeing as how they haven't even opened all of Pop, they are hardly going to spend the money to build another value. The mods seem to run at a good capacity, although other than the height of peak seasons, are seldom sold out, so I don't see them building another mod. The deluxes are about the same as the mods, especially as more and more former deluxe people are buying into what Disney has obviously determined to be the most lucrative business model--DVC. I doubt they will build DVC on a monorail line, because the extra cost to build it out would skyrocket ownership prices, and it would be difficult to analyze member transportation costs to pass on in dues.

WDW has already announced at least one new DVC complex which they ahven't even started yet. They are also spending money rehabbing various mod and deluxe resorts. I see them having a moratorium on building new resorts because the ratio between resort guests and park capacity must be considered as well, and it seems to me that it's getting up there based on the incomplete Pop project reaching completion.

Anne

 

[bicker]

The monorail is less expensive to operate than a ground bus fleet

Not when you amortize in the cost of construction, with any reasonable time horizon.

 

[jarestel]

Indeed, and this begs the question, "What do we want: Show or transportation?"

Excellent point, bicker. In today's world, show does come with a fairly hefty price tag. Maybe the days of WDW attempting to showcase "a better way" are over, and they will simply go for the lowest cost option.

 

[bicker]

They'll do whatever we want them to do, as reflected in what we'll pay them the greatest return to do.

 

[minnie61650]

Wrong.........


The MK monorail line was in place for 18 years before the Grand Floridian was built on it. Building new resorts on the Epcot Line is very feasible. If you see an aerial shot of the Disney property, you will see how very little is actually developed.

Before the MK was even built plans were in place for 4 hotels to be on the monorail line.The Floridian hotel is on the land that was set aside and dedicated to be the Future Asian Resort Hotel (A). The Future
Vanetian (B) Resort was going to located between the Poly (5) and the Contemporary (8). A fifth hotel was going to build on a monorail spur which ended at the future Persian Resort (C). That resort would be located just to east of the Mk and North of the Contemorary and would built with much of the hotel being on /over the water of Bay Lake. So even though the GF was not built until 18 years later a hotel was planned for that area at the same time the monorail was planned.
I got this picture and my info from my"The story of Walt Disney World"
Commemory Edition Book 1971.
Linda

 

[jarestel]

They'll do whatever we want them to do, as reflected in what we'll pay them the greatest return to do.

In that case, we'll probably be riding bicycles in the future then. I don't see a ground swell of popular support for charging visitors more money.

 

[eclectics]

I would love for them to expand the monorail and build a new deluxe but like most have posted, chances are slim to none. Since the DVC sales apparently have been brisk enough, monorail service is not a priority for these buyers. I suppose any new construction will be with DVC in mind, such as Saratoga. I don't know but DVC doesn't appeal to me. Seems like a awful amount of money to shell out plus monthly dues. I guess I'm not the "time share" type. Getting back to the monorail, I wonder if anyone has any hard facts on the cost ratio between the monorail and the bus line. Disney usually never has a problem with shutting things down that aren't cost effective and one wonders if the monorail is so very expensive to run, why Disney hasn't attempted to shut it down before (at least temporarily to find out guest reaction). I also wonder how much of the cost a guest is willing to pay for a deluxe resort is related to the "convenience" of the monorail. I'm sure all these "internal studies" have been done by Disney. Too bad we can't take a peek!

 

[jarestel]

Getting back to the monorail, I wonder if anyone has any hard facts on the cost ratio between the monorail and the bus line.

Hey, no fair bringing hard facts into this!