Why Don't We Have More Refineries?

[Jabber_Jaws]

In those links, gas prices were averaging $1.29 in '96 and $1.50 in '00 (wow, was that only six years ago), definitely low by comparison. Actually, adjusted for inflation, gas prices during the Clinton administration were the lowest in recorded history. Google it if you don't believe me.

"sigh"

gasoline prices soared, rising from an average of $1.03 per gallon in January 1999 to almost $1.60 in July 2000.1 For several weeks, some areas of the Midwest saw gasoline cost more than $2.00 per gallon. So thats a jump of just about $1.00 in a years time. People were upset then also. Let me say it again. Clinton was not immune to gas prices climbing. He is not the greatest thing since sliced bread.


P.S. No I don't think Bush is the best also.

 

[Jabber_Jaws]

One more thing.. If the price of gasoline was .90 cents when oil cost $10 per barrel in 1998-99 some where in there I believe, doesn’t that equate to 9% of the cost per barrel? Now when gas was around $2.50 per gallon at $65 per barrel. ( before this jump we have had in oil prices ) Now doesn’t that equate to 4% of the cost per barrel? In fact, if it was 9% at the $65 per barrel, shouldn’t we be paying $5.85 per gallon? Perhaps my math is off.

 

[momof2inPA]

"sigh"

gasoline prices soared, rising from an average of $1.03 per gallon in January 1999 to almost $1.60 in July 2000.1 For several weeks, some areas of the Midwest saw gasoline cost more than $2.00 per gallon. So thats a jump of just about $1.00 in a years time. People were upset then also. Let me say it again. Clinton was not immune to gas prices climbing. He is not the greatest thing since sliced bread.


P.S. No I don't think Bush is the best also.

Sliced bread aside, gas prices were the lowest ever during the Clinton years. Here's a link to a pretty picture to illustrate this FACT:

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/InfAdjGas1918_2005.gif

And at $3 to $3.50, gas will be the highest price in recorded history, adjusted for inflation, under Bush.

 

[momof2inPA]

One more thing.. If the price of gasoline was .90 cents when oil cost $10 per barrel in 1998-99 some where in there I believe, doesn’t that equate to 9% of the cost per barrel? Now when gas was around $2.50 per gallon at $65 per barrel. ( before this jump we have had in oil prices ) Now doesn’t that equate to 4% of the cost per barrel? In fact, if it was 9% at the $65 per barrel, shouldn’t we be paying $5.85 per gallon? Perhaps my math is off.

Fixed vs Variable costs?

 

[HOGFAN]

DH worked for a refinery in south Arkansas for several years. It closed down in 1987. We "think" it was owned by the mafia. We never really understood why it closed but eventually the whole thing was torn down. so no reopening it up.

On a side note, if we turn to fuel made from corn, imagine what a boom it would be to the poor farmers that have had a few rough decades. On a down side, it would be volatile as well, tornadoes, drought, etc.

 

[Jabber_Jaws]

Sliced bread aside, gas prices were the lowest ever during the Clinton years. Here's a link to a pretty picture to illustrate this FACT:

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/InfAdjGas1918_2005.gif

And at $3 to $3.50, gas will be the highest price in recorded history, adjusted for inflation, under Bush.

I think you misunderstood me. My point is all administrations past and present have had problems with gas prices. Like you pointed out Clinton may have had the lowest prices ever, but when the price jumped up .60 cents a gallon. People were none to happy.

 

[sha_lyn]

On a side note, if we turn to fuel made from corn, imagine what a boom it would be to the poor farmers that have had a few rough decades. On a down side, it would be volatile as well, tornadoes, drought, etc.

True about the volatility of crops.

Both corn and soy can be used to produce bio-diesel (as can rapeseed, flax etc I believe). I don't know if any crops others than corn can be used for ethonol.
I have a friend who runs the diesel/bio diesel blend in her SUV. She has to drive about 40 miles to purchase it. Eventually her plan is to convert the suburban to run on 100% biodiesel and to filter it in her garage. the main drawback to biodiesel is that it requires a warming tank, because it is too thick to run through a diesel engine without preheating. Therefore one needs enough storage area for the additional tank.

 

[Galahad]

Sliced bread aside, gas prices were the lowest ever during the Clinton years. Here's a link to a pretty picture to illustrate this FACT:

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/InfAdjGas1918_2005.gif

And at $3 to $3.50, gas will be the highest price in recorded history, adjusted for inflation, under Bush.

How is one attributable to Clinton and the other attributable to Bush?

BTW, after 9/11 gas sank to $1.19 a gallon and stayed below $1.40 for quite a long time. That we have gone through all of this and gas is JUST NOW at the highest adjusted price is pretty amazing.

 

[JudicialTyranny]

I think it's funny how for years the LIbErals/environmentalists have pointed out that Europe pays 3 or 4 times what we pay per gallon for gas, as an argument for raising gas taxes to increase the cost so we would "conserve" (reality is that they just wanted to spend the money).

Now I see reports that Howard Dean (DNC chairman) says the Democrats are going to try to exploit anger about high gas prices in the mid-term elections! (since they don't have an agenda, they can only be reactionaries)

But they've been wanting high gas prices for years! They just don't like them now because (1) they can try to use it for political advantage and (2) the increased prices aren't due to taxes, so they can't get their hands on the money and (3) it makes it less likely they'll ever be able to raise gas taxes in the future.

 

[Planogirl]

I think it's funny how for years the LIbErals/environmentalists have pointed out that Europe pays 3 or 4 times what we pay per gallon for gas, as an argument for raising gas taxes to increase the cost so we would "conserve" (reality is that they just wanted to spend the money).

Now I see reports that Howard Dean (DNC chairman) says the Democrats are going to try to exploit anger about high gas prices in the mid-term elections! (since they don't have an agenda, they can only be reactionaries)

But they've been wanting high gas prices for years! They just don't like them now because (1) they can try to use it for political advantage and (2) the increased prices aren't due to taxes, so they can't get their hands on the money and (3) it makes it less likely they'll ever be able to raise gas taxes in the future.

Yes, you're right. We all sit around and pray for higher gas prices. You're missing a lot of the point here.

 

[Charade]

Yes, you're right. We all sit around and pray for higher gas prices. You're missing a lot of the point here.

And I think you're misunderestimating the deviousness of politics.

 

[Viking]

I think it's funny how for years the LIbErals/environmentalists have pointed out that Europe pays 3 or 4 times what we pay per gallon for gas, as an argument for raising gas taxes to increase the cost so we would "conserve" (reality is that they just wanted to spend the money).

Now I see reports that Howard Dean (DNC chairman) says the Democrats are going to try to exploit anger about high gas prices in the mid-term elections! (since they don't have an agenda, they can only be reactionaries)

But they've been wanting high gas prices for years! They just don't like them now because (1) they can try to use it for political advantage and (2) the increased prices aren't due to taxes, so they can't get their hands on the money and (3) it makes it less likely they'll ever be able to raise gas taxes in the future.

I don't know where you got your info from, but we only pay about two times what you pay for gas here in Europe. Right now even a bit less as the prices weren't raised as strongly as in the US.
And as you obviously haven't understood the concept of taxes: The money you pay to the government is used for you and your fellow citizens. That is, the part that it is not burned in harebrained wars like the rightwingers obviously love to fight

 

[salmoneous]

I think the real answer is obvious - we aren't building and new refineries because *we don't need any new refineries*. The refineries we have are suppling all the products we need.

People love to throw around the statistice that we haven't built any in XX years, and use that as a red herring to blame the high cost of gas (or whatever) on. But it makes no sense.

 

[Charade]

I don't know where you got your info from, but we only pay about two times what you pay for gas here in Europe. Right now even a bit less as the prices weren't raised as strongly as in the US.
And as you obviously haven't understood the concept of taxes: The money you pay to the government is used for you and your fellow citizens. That is, the part that it is not burned in harebrained wars like the rightwingers obviously love to fight

I wonder what my government is doing with all that windfall tax money from increased gas prices.

If they'd really like to help, reduce the tax percentage on gas. But as usual with most governments, lowering taxes isn't in their playbook.

 

[Viking]

I wonder what my government is doing with all that windfall tax money from increased gas prices.

If they'd really like to help, reduce the tax percentage on gas. But as usual with most governments, lowering taxes isn't in their playbook.

I guess with the USA's current deficit you shouldn't try to hold your breath til the next lowering of taxes takes place

 

[rayelias]

And as you obviously haven't understood the concept of taxes: The money you pay to the government is used for you and your fellow citizens.

The concept of taxes is a very interesting topic.

Unlike what you're accostomed to in Europe, taxes should be as low as possible, only for the absolutely necessary things to keep our country secure and operational. In the US, they were originally not intended to be used for welfare, public education, the "arts", etc.

That is, the part that it is not burned in harebrained wars like the rightwingers obviously love to fight

You mean like WWI and WWII? That's a heck of a statment coming from someone from GERMANY!

 

[Viking]

I think the real answer is obvious - we aren't building and new refineries because *we don't need any new refineries*. The refineries we have are suppling all the products we need.

People love to throw around the statistice that we haven't built any in XX years, and use that as a red herring to blame the high cost of gas (or whatever) on. But it makes no sense.

So why do you have to massively buy refined products in Europe?

 

[momof2inPA]

How is one attributable to Clinton and the other attributable to Bush?

BTW, after 9/11 gas sank to $1.19 a gallon and stayed below $1.40 for quite a long time. That we have gone through all of this and gas is JUST NOW at the highest adjusted price is pretty amazing.

I don't think people were travelling much, then, especially by plane. Plus, I forgot, nothing negative that happens during the Bush administration has anything to do with his governance or the Republican congress. And Clinton is only to blame for the "bad" things that happened when he was in office.

As for Bush, the oil companies own him. They know they can do anything and he and the Republican Congress will not reign him in. Maybe Clinton was a much better international negotiator, and secured more oil from Russia, the Middle East, South America, etc. than Bush. Apparently some oil that used to come to us from South America is going elsewhere. I don't really care how Bush got us to this point, to be honest, he must address the problem, and one way to address it is to increase domestic refining capacity.

He should absolutely be focusing on our interests, rather than the interests of companies operating in Asia who want the refining by-products, and want the refining to be done in Asia. We need the gas. Refine the damn oil here.

 

[momof2inPA]

I think the real answer is obvious - we aren't building and new refineries because *we don't need any new refineries*. The refineries we have are suppling all the products we need.

People love to throw around the statistice that we haven't built any in XX years, and use that as a red herring to blame the high cost of gas (or whatever) on. But it makes no sense.

So, the high gas prices aren't based on supply and demand, the spring refinery maintenance, the summer additive, blah blah blah? What then?

 

[Viking]

The concept of taxes is a very interesting topic.

Unlike what you're accostomed to in Europe, taxes should be as low as possible, only for the absolutely necessary things to keep our country secure and operational. In the US, they were originally not intended to be used for welfare, public education, the "arts", etc.




You mean like WWI and WWII? That's a heck of a statment coming from someone from GERMANY!

Seeing your spelling of 'accostomed' and 'statment' it is obvious that at least in your state taxes aren't used for public education

Secure and operational? Like New Orleans?

What does the Iraq-campaign have to do with WWI and WWII?