Why dont people plan?

[Aliceacc]

I might have missed some of the posts on this thread, but it seemed to me there are two very different things being discussed, commented upon (and in some cases quite a bit of judgement thrown into the mix).

The first is, IMHO, not quite about people who don't "plan", but about people who don't know anything about where they are going. I'm not talking about FP+ or ADRs, but things like people who think Harry Potter is at WDW, not knowing WDW is not just MK, expecting to walk from MK to AK. Being a person who loves to research all her vacations to know what are interesting places and things to see and do when we get there (whether WDW, Europe, or just a day-trip the next town over), I find this fascinating. Personally, I couldn't do it, I just love finding out about destinations too much. This can create quite big issues when traveling, if you had your heart set on doing something but it isn't there. And this is true of vacations everywhere. I worked in tourism for a few years here, and some tourists were angry when paying with US dollars in shops to be giving the change in Canadian dollars. Some people, I think, will just always go without looking anything up and then be angry that things aren't what they thought, or not done like they are at home.

The other thing that's been discussed, and this is where most arguments I thought went every which way, is about the level of planning involved for a trip to WDW. There are different ways to enjoy (or not) a vacation to WDW, and the level of planning necessary varies so much from one family (or traveling party) to the next, I don't think it's fair to judge or make generalized comments on this. What is a great strategy for one family will make the trip a living hell for the next. And the fact that one family doesn't plan the way you do doesn't mean they'll have a terrible time. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but I seriously don't think planning is the solution to everyone's problems. I know that most touring plans, spreadsheet plans and to-the-minute itinerary would drive me insane, so we've found ways to plan our WDW trip with some things planned, some not, and we've had a fantastic time. Others would have traveled with us and would have been out of their minds stressed out that we didn't always know which ride we'd go to next. And that's fine. I just think it's OK to remember that if your coworker/friend/neighbor decides not to book all their ADRs and FP+ in advance doesn't mean they won't (or will) have an awesome trip.

One last thing. I've lost the quote from the posters who said this was a big problem with Disney, that they make it so complicated, and with all the technology (FP+, MDE, ADRs) that they have created these issues, and that it's Disney's fault that people who don't plan are penalized. I don't buy that. Take away the FP, ADRs, magic bands etc., you'll still have a park full of people who want to ride the same attractions and eat in the same places. And people who think they can ride the monorail to HS or want to ride Harry Potter at Disney. Often, the "non-planners" say they had a bad time because the waits were too long etc. Even without FP, the lines would be long (I know FP+ has an impact on stand by, that's not my point, but you would still have long lines), there would be waits, and the most popular restaurants would either be fully booked at the very first moment bookings are available in the morning, or if they were also just "show-up-and-wait", can you imagine the line of people waiting for a table, and complaining that they can't make reservations, etc. And in the end, not everyone would get to eat at BOG or CRT anyway. I'm not saying the system as it is is perfect (it's not), but saying that all problems of long waits and unavailability in restaurants is because of the system is way too simplistic.

What an incredibly well written post!!!

 

[GPC0321]

I haven't read all 14 pages of this thread, but here's my two cents.
I refuse to decide 6 months in advance exactly when, where, and what I'm going to want to eat. No way can I decide that at 6:10pm on the Wednesday of our trip are we going to want to eat pizza at Via Napoli or whatever.

If you're flexible about where you eat, I guarantee you that an hour before you're ready to eat, you could check MDE and find SOMEWHERE to eat. Heck, I just checked for today and saw plenty of places from 3pm-6pm including California Grill, Le Cellier, Chefs de France, Boma, Artist Point, Citricos, Jiko, Skipper Canteen, Liberty Tree Tavern, Narcoossee's, Rose & Crown, San Angel Inn, and Tiffins for a party of 4.

As for FP+, if people employ some common sense, they can ride the more popular rides without torturous waits or FP+ if they either get there at park opening (or very soon after) or come/stay later at night before park closing. If they aren't able or willing to do either or both of those options, and try to do the parks from 11am until 6pm without FP+ then they're going to struggle, but that's more than lack of planning...that's lack of THINKING.

 

[fla4fun]

I just made dinner reservations at WL for November. Guess I should have stayed up all night at the 180 mark. I thought since WL is half empty we'd we able to eat there at a decent time. With small kids who normally go to bed at 6:30-7:00, eating at 6:30 is problematic. We didn't really want to drag them to a park late in the day to eat. I am a planner but I think it's overboard when a half empty hotel is full at opening 6 months ahead it's a problem. Learning .....

Another issue could be that many restaurants close between lunch and dinner, so they aren't even opening back up until 5:00 or 5:30. So there aren't a lot of slots available that will get you in and out before putting the kids to bed at 6:30. If you figure that WL has half of their rooms available, that's half of 728 rooms - way more families than can be seated in two restaurants in an hour and a half. I would probably order room service instead, or look for restaurants that don't have that break between lunch and dinner so you can schedule earlier.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I plan, because my vacation time is precious. We save money every week and sacrifice things to be able to go on "real" vacations. We have to use half of our vacation days from work to go on trips. Whether it is Disney or the Grand Canyon I will research to get the most of the time and money we spend. These are memories for my family.

I planned a lot for DD5's first trip. We also went off the cuff. I made a bunch of ADRs. We canceled most of them before we even left.

Planning is part of the fun for us. Some people, like my brother, cannot plan what he is doing tomorrow.

Just depends on the nature of someone I guess.

 

[danc18]

Another issue could be that many restaurants close between lunch and dinner, so they aren't even opening back up until 5:00 or 5:30. So there aren't a lot of slots available that will get you in and out before putting the kids to bed at 6:30. If you figure that WL has half of their rooms available, that's half of 728 rooms - way more families than can be seated in two restaurants in an hour and a half. I would probably order room service instead, or look for restaurants that don't have that break between lunch and dinner so you can schedule earlier.

Yes you hit it. We would gladly eat at 4:00 but they're not open. Prob going to do some room service.

 

[Nancyg56]

Maybe there is something to that. I plan obsessively too. But everything never goes 100% as planned, someone always gets sick, weather issues, etc. And that could lead to disappointment, resentment, etc. People who don't plan a thing have no expectation, and therefore ultimately have a better time. They don't obsess over trivial things like if they received turn down service, they don't know that better dining options exist, etc. They just......have fun, probably more fun. And without preconceived stories of what others experienced/received, every little thing seems magical to them. I envy those families! Okay, my FP+ date is coming up this week, back to trying to figure out what park and rides I want to do in two months.

Lol! I can't roll that way either. I will be locked and loaded on ADR day at 6am, booking FP at t minus 60

 

[helenb]

We go to WDW roughly every 2 years. Just before our last trip (almost exactly 2 years ago, in 2014) my husband mentioned to me that a friend of his from work was going to be at WDW at the same time we were, and she wanted some help planning. It was about 40 days before our trips, and she had done nothing, but I tried to help her out in the easiest way I could. I sent her to Josh's site for his cheat sheets and crowd calendars, I explained how to go to Disney's site and look up where dining reservations would be available, and that she needed to book FP at 30 days out. A couple of days later, the first FP for 7DMT were released (this was right before it opened) and I was so excited to be able to snag them right away. I contacted this woman and told her to go book those FP+ now! My husband later asked her how it was going, and she commented that 'Helen is a little more intense about this than I am.'. Sigh.

We met up with her briefly that trip, just before we went to MK for the Wishes Dessert party. When we told her where we were going, she asked us how she could get tickets to that. And her girls never got to meet Anna & Elsa, because she didn't try to get FP until just before they left on the trip... sigh. All of my advice was ignored. And then the next day, we were having lunch at Via Napoli, and my DH took a cute pic of our kids 'drooling' over a massive pizza bigger than they were and posted it on his FB page. And his co-worker commented, asking how we found that and why didn't I tell her about those giant pizzas? Well, actually, I had...

Fast forward to last week. We're currently planning the last little bits of our upcoming trip next month. DH mentioned at a work meeting that we're going to Disneyworld next month, and the same co-worker laughs and tells everyone how 'obsessed' I am about planning Disney. Part of me was offended when I heard this, but I eventually realized that this is how people see us. They think we're 'obsessed' because we like to plan, because we enjoy planning, and because we want to get the most out of our Disney trips. And that's why *they* don't do it: because *they're* not obsessed. That's the mindset. The average person thinks that anyone planning a trip 6 months out is obsessed, or suffers from some kind of compulsive disorder.

At this point, I've given up. If anyone ever asks me for help again, I'm going to make *really* sure they want it before I give my heart and soul to helping them again.

FWIW, we go to San Diego Comic Con every year, and it is the only other thing in our lives that requires a level of planning similar to WDW. The big difference is that if you're not a planner, you'll never get tickets to go, so pretty much everyone who goes is 'obsessed'.

 

[Nancyg56]

Not just that one, but multiple posts in this thread. Bars and drinking are recurrent themes.

Hey, you asked, I answered.

No problem. I love bars and I drink around the world when my dsil will share with me. Different vacation strokes for different folks

 

[Iowamomof4]

We go to WDW roughly every 2 years. Just before our last trip (almost exactly 2 years ago, in 2014) my husband mentioned to me that a friend of his from work was going to be at WDW at the same time we were, and she wanted some help planning. It was about 40 days before our trips, and she had done nothing, but I tried to help her out in the easiest way I could. I sent her to Josh's site for his cheat sheets and crowd calendars, I explained how to go to Disney's site and look up where dining reservations would be available, and that she needed to book FP at 30 days out. A couple of days later, the first FP for 7DMT were released (this was right before it opened) and I was so excited to be able to snag them right away. I contacted this woman and told her to go book those FP+ now! My husband later asked her how it was going, and she commented that 'Helen is a little more intense about this than I am.'. Sigh.

We met up with her briefly that trip, just before we went to MK for the Wishes Dessert party. When we told her where we were going, she asked us how she could get tickets to that. And her girls never got to meet Anna & Elsa, because she didn't try to get FP until just before they left on the trip... sigh. All of my advice was ignored. And then the next day, we were having lunch at Via Napoli, and my DH took a cute pic of our kids 'drooling' over a massive pizza bigger than they were and posted it on his FB page. And his co-worker commented, asking how we found that and why didn't I tell her about those giant pizzas? Well, actually, I had...

Fast forward to last week. We're currently planning the last little bits of our upcoming trip next month. DH mentioned at a work meeting that we're going to Disneyworld next month, and the same co-worker laughs and tells everyone how 'obsessed' I am about planning Disney. Part of me was offended when I heard this, but I eventually realized that this is how people see us. They think we're 'obsessed' because we like to plan, because we enjoy planning, and because we want to get the most out of our Disney trips. And that's why *they* don't do it: because *they're* not obsessed. That's the mindset. The average person thinks that anyone planning a trip 6 months out is obsessed, or suffers from some kind of compulsive disorder.

At this point, I've given up. If anyone ever asks me for help again, I'm going to make *really* sure they want it before I give my heart and soul to helping them again.

FWIW, we go to San Diego Comic Con every year, and it is the only other thing in our lives that requires a level of planning similar to WDW. The big difference is that if you're not a planner, you'll never get tickets to go, so pretty much everyone who goes is 'obsessed'.

I think you've hit on something there. I love wdw in part because I get to plan for it and think about it (some might say obsessively) for 6 months to a year! Part of the fun of any vacation (for me) is the anticipation of it and I get to anticipate my Disney trips for a far longer time than any of the other vacations I've taken (like trips to a cabin in MN or something along those lines). How sad I would be if there was nothing to do but twiddle my thumbs and wait for time to pass before my trip. Other people don't see it that way. Oh well. <sigh>

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I thought it was funny that after I posted my comment on this thread I was watching the Weather Channel and they were interviewing a couple regarding tropical storm Bonnie hitting land. They were at the beach and what did they think about the system hitting land during their vacation and they said they didn't check the weather before coming to the beach. Not THAT is not planning a thing.

 

[joannamet]

But most of us know that it's actually far more complicated than that! You have to have a rough plan of your whole day as you go through it and anticipate problems as you make decisions, while keeping an eye on the Times Guide for that day, your personal reservations schedule, etc.

I think the whole point is that you don't have to do that. Some people chose to do it but those of us who don't, still have a great time as well.!

 

[happymommy]

We now plan very loosely, as I've been so many times. I do make some FP+ (and am known to change them on the fly), but only make one or two ADR's since I prefer to eat on the go (although this coming trip I have two lunches and one breakfast at BOG booked, since we enjoy it and have free QSDP).

That being said, I have in-laws that went and didn't take any of my advice. They complained that all they did was stand in lines. They didn't go in with any sort of plan or anything, and knowing how many times I had gone they seemed to not care to hear what advice I gave them (they went over a huge holiday but refused to stay at a Disney hotel even though they can more than afford even the most expensive ones).

Some folks don't understand that WDW isn't just the Magic Kingdom, and that it is much more than just an amusement park.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Just got back from a great trip and was shocked to see how many people are clueless at Disneyworld. I dont mean that in a negative way. I just felt bad for people that they spent all this money and dont really know whats going on. Here's a couple examples...

1) SDMT - I saw this couple with their kids ask about the wait time. The CM said its 100 minute wait. The lady said ok where are the kiosk that I can get a fastpass for this ride. The CM said they have been gone for at least 30 days. Further more they debated on getting in line but their youngest daughter was too small. I went over to them and told them about rider swap. The lady was so happy.

2) I also heard a group behing me waiting in line talk about Be Our Guest. They said that looks like a cool place to eat. We should eat there tonight.

3) While at Epcot a couple was getting Fastpasses and asked the CM why Soarin wasnt showing up as an option.

Again I'm just wondering how this happens. There are so many resources out there. I feel that you have to plan to make the most of your trip.

Does anyone else see or hear of these things while at Disney?

Many people expect Disney to be like any other vacation they take. They figure out a place to stay, a budget, and maybe some highlights they want to make sure they get to, but that's about it. I don't know very many people IRL who do a ton of planning for non-Disney vacations, so it doesn't surprise me that there are people who just don't realize that WDW is a completely different animal and that planning more in advance would really help them a lot. There aren't many places that most people vacation to where you have to book certain restaurants at 180 days out or you likely won't get in at all on your trip.

Honestly, when I read the title I didn't expect the family you were referring to in #1 would even know about FP+, or that they could book FP+ same day. Clearly they did do some research, even if it wasn't "enough" to solve their issues onsite.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I often see even experienced wdw travelers recommend checking out a guide book from the library! I can only imagine how old those must be.

Our libraries usually have the current Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World book available to check out. Just because it's from a library doesn't mean it's out of date.

 

[Angel Ariel]

To be fair, Disney does send out booklets with all of this info and also emails on the days you are eligible to book dining and fastpasses etc. People just ignore them and then get upset when they think they weren't told. I guess if you aren't staying on site you wouldn't get those, but staying on site there are no excuses.

Perhaps they are better with this now, but when we went in 2014 my husband and I got all of the info you are talking about. My friend who was accompanying us on the trip, though, did not. Yes, she was staying on site. She was at a different resort than us, but onsite. We had a Dumbo magnet on our fridge telling us the various dates that we needed to know - she didn't get that. We got e-mail reminders that she didn't. They weren't in her spam folder or anything (she looked when she heard what we'd received). Just nothing. And yes, her MDE had her e-mail, her address, etc..everything that our account did.

Like I said, perhaps they are better with this now than they were then. But after that experience, I don't just assume that people are getting the information and ignoring it.

 

[Iowamomof4]

Our libraries usually have the current Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World book available to check out. Just because it's from a library doesn't mean it's out of date.

That's good. I guess I'm used to libraries that don't re-purchase things like this on a regular basis. I see my current local library does have 2013-2016 guides (we haven't lived here long). I'll stop rolling my eyes at the suggestion.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Actually I know several friends who just pay and go. They don't read, plan. Nothing. Blows my mind for any vacation. We even get reservations at the Jersey Shore!

We go to the Outer Banks every year and never book dinner reservations. We don't go out a lot,but when we do we've never needed a reservation to do so. Certainly not one booked months in advance. We book our rental house in advance, and that's it. They're fantastic, relaxing vacations

 

[jillyh]

OK - haven't read through the whole thread, but - I really think there are 2 different categories here. People who stay onsite and don't plan- no excuse! But I can see that people who are going for the first time and staying offsite - maybe bought there tickets through a broker, wouldn't realize how much planning is required. My daughter's coworker (who has an MBA) came back from a trip in March and told my daughter how much she hated disney. It was too crowded, lines were too long, and they couldn't get same day dining reservations. They were staying offsite, and I believe it was a first trip. I do feel if you are spending that much money no matter what you should spend the time to do some planning. But I can see that someone who books offsite and it's their first trip could think they would be able to just show up and have a great time.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think the long lead times are because of the 45-day cancellation policy. They're trying to give people the option of getting out before they are too committed if they can't get the reservations they want. Or avoid making flight plans. I don't think it's malice on Disney's part, because I don't think they have an issue with filling the restaurants, but it's to give people as much info as they can give them.

And I don't know how halving the windows helps -- all it does is make it more important you hit your dates. If you can start at 180 out, nothing says you have to. It's just that the opportunity is there. It doesn't go away if you miss a start date. You might not get all you want if you don't strike at earliest availability, but you can still get stuff. And if the stuff you want isn't there, you can keep checking -- a longer window gives you more opportunities. If you tightened the windows, I think the planning stress might turn into panic because you'd get fewer opportunities to get what you might have missed.

Doesn't Disneyland have the same 45 day cancellation policy? And their booking times are much shorter than WDW. You don't even get park hours until about 6 weeks-2months out. Dining opens at 60 days. No panic or planning stress at DLR. That's a good portion of why we have chosen to head west last year and this year.

 

[DVCcurious]

If you fail to plan you plan to fail