Why does the TSA assume you're a moron?

[Mkrop]

Just to be clear, you obviously had something else on you or your husband that had metal in it. I wear a large silver cuff bracelet and big silver necklace every week and travel over 100k per year and have never set off alarms. A zipper fly or small hair clip will not set off a metal detector. You were wearing something else that set it off OR you were randomly selected, which is part of TSA protocol. Your post stinks of the same drama as the woman who claimed that her son's small pacifer clip set off the guns/alarms/dogs at ATL. If you look at the official TSA video she had on a big ole belt buckle and was full of drama and misinformation.

For all those on the DIS please realize that a zip fly is NOT going to set off the metal detector to the point of sending you to the pokey.

http://www.mybottlesup.com/2009/10/tsa-agents-took-my-son/

http://blog.tsa.gov/2009/10/response-to-tsa-agents-took-my-son.html

For those that are paranoid and freaked out and will be traveling with multiple adults send one adult thru security with 10 people between Adult 1 and Adult 2 who is with the kids. This ensures that Adult 1 is full and clear of all security issues and is free and clear to "catch" any kids who may be left alone for a micro-second while adult 2 may be caught up in any security measures.

Depends on the barrette, I had one in my hair flying back from a wedding in Tampa. Set off the metal detector, they wanded me, my hair beeped, I took out the barrette, went through and I was no longer beeping. So I swore I would never wear a barrette again to save myself the headache. Well flew awhile later and forgot but had in different barrette, no beeps at all.

 

[cel_disney]

We are also frequent travelers and we were traveling in First Class with our 2 children ages 4 and 5 months. We had a single stroller with us and 2 backpacks.

I first went to the first class/medalian line which wasnt very long and its what we both use for work frequently. We were redirected to the family line in Boston because the lanes were bigger to accomodate the stroller.

Luckly there were no real lines at this time of the morning so I didnt complain, but I would have otherwise. One of the perks of having a first class seat is to go through the SHORT first class line and my family was more than prepared to do that and execute it at the speed necessary.

Sorry you had such a bad trip through...I do find that some airports handle this much better than others...

 

[Buzz's Buddy]

We are a family of 5 and fly with 4 year old DS. We are also very familiar with security and can get through very quickly. We were directed to the family line for our return flight on 1/5 and it was actually quicker than the regular line.

But even if it wasn't, how is the TSA supposed to differentiate between families that can breeze through and those that are doing it for the first time.

I've also been in regular lines where people have been told to remove outer garments (coats, sweaters, sweatshirts, etc) and still try to walk through the metal detector without removing them...

 

[CPT Tripss]

I can only go by what a previous poster said. And again, nobody forcibly separates me from my kid. NOBODY. Try it, and face my righteous wrath. I WILL get physical.

Much as I dislike the TSA's processes and the cavalier (kindest word I could come up with) approach to passenger interactions of many TSA blue shirts, that really isn't a wise move.

 

[duffy]

Much as I dislike the TSA's processes and the cavalier (kindest word I could come up with) approach to passenger interactions of many TSA blue shirts, that really isn't a wise move.

I'm responding to the poster who said that her family was "pretty much forced" onto the shuttle without her kids. I'm not getting on a shuttle without my kids.

I would presume that the agent had no idea which kids belong with which adults. I would politely ask that I be allowed to take my own children with me, but if I am "pretty much forced" onto a moving vehicle without my kid, and the only way I can stop myself from being "pretty much forced" is to get physical, then I will.

Asking to speak to a supervisor will be a bit late, when I'm being whisked away on a shuttle AGAINST MY WILL, and my kid is left behind without me, or if my child is sent on the transport, and I am not allowed to go with him.

So, you'd meekly get on a shuttle and leave your child behind, if you were being forced?

 

[bumbershoot]

Just to be clear, you obviously had something else on you or your husband that had metal in it. I wear a large silver cuff bracelet and big silver necklace every week and travel over 100k per year and have never set off alarms. A zipper fly or small hair clip will not set off a metal detector. You were wearing something else that set it off OR you were randomly selected, which is part of TSA protocol. Your post stinks of the same drama as the woman who claimed that her son's small pacifer clip set off the guns/alarms/dogs at ATL. If you look at the official TSA video she had on a big ole belt buckle and was full of drama and misinformation.

For all those on the DIS please realize that a zip fly is NOT going to set off the metal detector to the point of sending you to the pokey.

http://www.mybottlesup.com/2009/10/tsa-agents-took-my-son/

http://blog.tsa.gov/2009/10/response-to-tsa-agents-took-my-son.html

For those that are paranoid and freaked out and will be traveling with multiple adults send one adult thru security with 10 people between Adult 1 and Adult 2 who is with the kids. This ensures that Adult 1 is full and clear of all security issues and is free and clear to "catch" any kids who may be left alone for a micro-second while adult 2 may be caught up in any security measures.

My post was NOT full of drama. In fact, I was as calm writing about it as I was at the time. If you are reading drama into it, I suggest you print it out, wait until you are very relaxed, and read it again. There was absolutely no drama at the time it happened, and no drama at the time I wrote it.

I was quiet and calm saying "my son is right here, my husband is over there (at LAX, at least in December '08, ere are low walls and I could see everything the agent and DH were doing) , we can't forget him", and then the lady behind me said "you have a barrette".

I took out the barrette, put it in a bin, it went through, I went through, I did not ping that time.

I do not wear belts. I own no chunky jewelry as it is not aesthetically pleasing to me.

My husband takes off his belt and puts it through the machine. I was watching them "wand" him, and it was his zipper that was causing the ruckus with the wand, and that's IT.


Obviously you haven't read my posts before about LAX; I quite like LAX! I like their people (except for this ONE lady, but she wasn't there that time), and even that time they were awesome to deal with. Just a bit forgetful. I didn't say they were rude or mean or evil; but they were forgetting that my son was standing there.


I've been through there before and after that experience, and thankfully their systems have never been set so sensitive as that time.


Once hubby was done with the zipper examination (just being silly, there was no exam, just a thorough wanding and once it was shown to just be the zipper he was on his way) and once the helpful lady behind me helped me out , we had to get ourselves together.

The TSA people that had been passively watching over things helped us out; got the carseat over to us, talked with DS as we got our shoes on (DS just wore crocs during that period of his traveling life so he was easy). One of the guys could tell we'd been at Disneyland, and said his wife wanted to go for their first visit on xmas day...I strongly and cheerfully urged him to talk her out of that visit, to get some less crowded visits under their belts before braving the 25th LOL. All while tying my laces and getting my hair back under control (aka out of my face) with the barrette (which I still have and could post a picture for you).

Then we all called goodbye to each other as we went running towards our gate, as we had been late from the moment we left California Adventure! Hubby had a few problems with his shorts almost falling down as we ran, as he hadn't had a chance to get his belt back on. Embarrassing! And when we screeched to a sweaty halt at our gate, we found it hadn't even boarded yet, 5 minutes before scheduled departure. Whew! Who knew it would be so good to have a late-leaving flight????


But I assure you, it was the barrette and the zipper that set them off that day. And I don't post this to be dramatic at all. My family might take up a lot of bins (we do put more than one pair of shoes in one, etc, we don't have one bin for every single item) and room on the conveyor belt, but we let others go past us because we refuse to rush and get ourselves into a tizzy.

Even while we were running to the gate we were laughing at the situation.

Hubby has traveled internationally since he was a child, and alone since he was a teenager, I went away to college at 17 and took my first solo flight home when I was brand-newly 18...we're definitely seasoned.

We traveled on Sept 18, 2001, out to DC, and ever since, so we're not new to TSA or increased security at all.

Hubby currently travels internationally for work, carrying usually 8 e-readers at once (he's a product tester), and he also carries injectable drugs (a drug that is illegal without a prescription in many countries) so he's used to having his stuff looked at thoroughly. (eta, ha ha, that sounded naughty...he's used to having his carryon items looked at thoroughly)

That one time at LAX happened to be a time when we were rushing, but although we were rushing as we checked in bags and after we got through security, we took our time (and tried to stop sweating from all the rushing LOL) so nothing got frantic. We hate frantic.


I remember reading about that lady, so silly. But I can assure you, that was not what our situation was like at all.

And yet...those are the two things that set off the detectors on that day, and they were about to forget about my son.



ETA again, by the way, I like your use of "big ol'". I use that phrase myself as well. Yay for "big ol'" things!

Which then reminds me, in the interest of full disclosure, hubby shops at big&tall shops, so his shorts are a bit bigger than a skinny guy's shorts, and the zipper is definitely bigger than a zipper on a skinny guy's shorts. It definitely could have had an effect (affect? why did I have such rotten English teachers growing up? I just can't learn that one)...but my barrette is just a normal Goody barrette...



Oh, and I also have stories about useless security, not extra-tough security like at LAX that time. That trip on 9/18/01 was, um, interesting, in what they considered a weapon (metal toed shoes) and what they did not (2 inch, double-sided, half missing their rubber tips, sharp metal bun-holders, of which I had at least 10 in my hair, to hold my waist-length hair up in a bun). And how a bullet-shaped part of a keychain roamed around in my carryon bag for two flights without anyone noticing (including me until I unpacked when we got home, it was a keychain from hubby's work that unscrewed itself somehow). and more.

 

[CPT Tripss]

So, you'd meekly get on a shuttle and leave your child behind, if you were being forced?

Quite the contrary . . . there would be no cooperation on my part with any TSAer pulling such a stunt. We might even end up with a gaggle of TSA blueshirts and a whiteshirt or two. But I would not leave that part of the terminal without all of my posessions and all of my traveling party. I just would not act in a manner that would allow the TSAer to make an assault claim by "getting physical" with him/her.

 

[Disneywedding2010]

Not everyone is an experienced flyer. Not everyone can easily understand verbal or written directions. Did you know that there are people with disabilities who need extra time, as well as people who just aren't as smart as you think you are? That doesn't make them idiots or morons, it makes them human beings.

You need to develop some compassion.

I agree with the bolded. I go through security in a wheelchair because I can't walk long distances to the gate. I experienced someone like you this past trip because my fiance was doing simply what the TSA agent said to do. Yes, the airport employee put me in front of another person and then told my fiance to get behind me, do the whole shoes off, etc etc, and follow me. Well, when he went to do this the man he was in front of through a hissy fit "I've been standing here an hour what the hell gives you the right to cut in front of me?" All my fiance said was, "Sir, take it up with that agent right there. I'm simply doing what I was told to do." To which the man got more upset and the agent hit a button on his walkie. Another agent (I'm assuming a higher up person) came over, explained to the man what was going on, pushed the man's stuff back so my fiance could get his stuff on the belt and get through the line to meet up with me.

So, yes people may be slow going through security but its not because we are all idiots or morons its because it takes a few minutes to get out a wheelchair and do everything else that needs to be done to get through security.

 

[duffy]

Quite the contrary . . . there would be no cooperation on my part with any TSAer pulling such a stunt. We might even end up with a gaggle of TSA blueshirts and a whiteshirt or two. But I would not leave that part of the terminal without all of my posessions and all of my traveling party. I just would not act in a manner that would allow the TSAer to make an assault claim by "getting physical" with him/her.

Force: to use physical strength or power against an object.

What exactly do you think being "forced" to get on a shuttle is? Strict language and stern looks? If a TSA agent was forcing me onto a shuttle, would they not have hands on me?

So, if an agent is forcing me onto a shuttle, they have already gotten gotten physical. How else can they force me away from my child? I'm not leaving her against my will without a physical struggle!! If you would, you're a very meek person.

 

[maxiesmom]

I'm responding to the poster who said that her family was "pretty much forced" onto the shuttle without her kids. I'm not getting on a shuttle without my kids.

I would presume that the agent had no idea which kids belong with which adults. I would politely ask that I be allowed to take my own children with me, but if I am "pretty much forced" onto a moving vehicle without my kid, and the only way I can stop myself from being "pretty much forced" is to get physical, then I will.

Asking to speak to a supervisor will be a bit late, when I'm being whisked away on a shuttle AGAINST MY WILL, and my kid is left behind without me, or if my child is sent on the transport, and I am not allowed to go with him.

Ok, as that poster I can tell you that the only reason we didn't raise more of a stink was because my brother in law was still behind with the other 2 kids. But I can tell you that both me and my sister repeatedly told the TSA agent that the rest of our family was still clearing security, and the just kept telling us we had to board the tram.

My family knows to send one adult thru security first, and then the kids, and then another adult. However, as we were placed into seperate lines (which we did not think would cause a problem) we couldn't do that in both spots.

I really posted my story more to warn people to be careful than anything else. I have no idea what would have happened had we refused to board the tram. I am glad that we didn't have to find out. But for those who did not realize, you do need to split the adults up at security so you can better handle your kids.

 

[duffy]

Ok, as that poster I can tell you that the only reason we didn't raise more of a stink was because my brother in law was still behind with the other 2 kids. But I can tell you that both me and my sister repeatedly told the TSA agent that the rest of our family was still clearing security, and the just kept telling us we had to board the tram.

My family knows to send one adult thru security first, and then the kids, and then another adult. However, as we were placed into seperate lines (which we did not think would cause a problem) we couldn't do that in both spots.

I really posted my story more to warn people to be careful than anything else. I have no idea what would have happened had we refused to board the tram. I am glad that we didn't have to find out. But for those who did not realize, you do need to split the adults up at security so you can better handle your kids.

Oh, I don't doubt your story for a minute. I also figured that you decided that your brother-in-law would take care of the other kids, and that was why you decided not to make it an issue.

My issue is, that if I didn't have a handy brother-in-law or other adult to care for the children, I would not just shrug and leave my child behind. The TSA would have to PHYSICALLY FORCE me onto the shuttle, and if they did, they would be facing charges.

I just keep imagining a parent dropping the hand of a toddler and meekly boarding a shuttle, and the toddler left standing there, clutching his Mickey Mouse doll and weeping! (I know that is not what happened, I have an active imagination.) I would never do that. If an agent got between us and PHYSICALLY FORCED me to leave my child, there would be a tussle right there. Charges would have to be filed.

 

[eliza61]

Oh, I don't doubt your story for a minute. I also figured that you decided that your brother-in-law would take care of the other kids, and that was why you decided not to make it an issue.

My issue is, that if I didn't have a handy brother-in-law or other adult to care for the children, I would not just shrug and leave my child behind. The TSA would have to PHYSICALLY FORCE me onto the shuttle, and if they did, they would be facing charges.

I just keep imagining a parent dropping the hand of a toddler and meekly boarding a shuttle, and the toddler left standing there, clutching his Mickey Mouse doll and weeping! (I know that is not what happened, I have an active imagination.) I would never do that. If an agent got between us and PHYSICALLY FORCED me to leave my child, there would be a tussle right there. Charges would have to be filed.

And most parents will not have to worry about that. See the problem becomes with these viral stories is that it takes possible 1 occurance in 1000000 and now every one like you developes the mindset that the TSA agents are "rapist, child molestors, monsters" etc etc. (yes I know you did not call them that but for the last 6 months since thanksgiving we have had thread after thread accusing the TSA of crap that actually hasn't panned out.) Now before you have even gotten to MCO, I'm betting that your hackles are up because you have it in your mind that the nanosecond you get off the plane and get on the tram a gestapo agent is going to be there waiting to seperate you from your kid. and you haven't even step inside an airport.

why not post the question and see how many million families manage to get on board those trams without the TSA seperating their children?

Why not post the question and see actually if anyone has been "physically forced" to be seperated from their kids? How would the agent do that any how? I go to disneyworld annually and have yet to see a TSA agent grab a parent and child and pull them apart.

Orlando airport averages 95,000 passengers EACH day!! they have 800 commercial flights daily, without incident. do unfortunate situations happen, with out a doubt I'm sure. It can't be easy trying to get that many people to where they are supposed to go succesfully. but guess what, 99.9% of the time they are successful.

So how about you relax & de-stress instead of gearing up for ww3 based on that 0.1%

 

[maxiesmom]

Why not post the question and see actually if anyone has been "physically forced" to be seperated from their kids? How would the agent do that any how? I go to disneyworld annually and have yet to see a TSA agent grab a parent and child and pull them apart.

Orlando airport averages 95,000 passengers EACH day!! they have 800 commercial flights daily, without incident. do unfortunate situations happen, with out a doubt I'm sure. It can't be easy trying to get that many people to where they are supposed to go succesfully. but guess what, 99.9% of the time they are successful.

So how about you relax & de-stress instead of gearing up for ww3 based on that 0.1%

Because you may end up in that 0.1% that it happens to. And if you do, it sucks. I don't see any harm at all in knowing what to do in case something unexpected happens. Knowing ahead of time doesn't mean people will go into MCO ready for a fight.

 

[dudspizza]

Force: to use physical strength or power against an object.

What exactly do you think being "forced" to get on a shuttle is? Strict language and stern looks? If a TSA agent was forcing me onto a shuttle, would they not have hands on me?

So, if an agent is forcing me onto a shuttle, they have already gotten gotten physical. How else can they force me away from my child? I'm not leaving her against my will without a physical struggle!! If you would, you're a very meek person.

I would love to hear 1 example of a TSA physically forcing anyone to get on a shuttle and leave the area.......

Many times people take the authority and get scared.... TSA probably doesn't even realize the are separating people......

Best bet is to be firm and calm and nothing physical should be needed..... I have honestly run into 99% very good, nice TSA agents...... maybe 1% have been idiots..... I am sure it comes with stress of the job.

I worked airport security (pre-TSA) and it honestly sucked. I can't imagine what it would be like now a days...

 

[duffy]

And most parents will not have to worry about that. See the problem becomes with these viral stories is that it takes possible 1 occurance in 1000000 and now every one like you developes the mindset that the TSA agents are "rapist, child molestors, monsters" etc etc. (yes I know you did not call them that but for the last 6 months since thanksgiving we have had thread after thread accusing the TSA of crap that actually hasn't panned out.) Now before you have even gotten to MCO, I'm betting that your hackles are up because you have it in your mind that the nanosecond you get off the plane and get on the tram a gestapo agent is going to be there waiting to seperate you from your kid. and you haven't even step inside an airport.

why not post the question and see how many million families manage to get on board those trams without the TSA seperating their children?

Why not post the question and see actually if anyone has been "physically forced" to be seperated from their kids? How would the agent do that any how? I go to disneyworld annually and have yet to see a TSA agent grab a parent and child and pull them apart.

Orlando airport averages 95,000 passengers EACH day!! they have 800 commercial flights daily, without incident. do unfortunate situations happen, with out a doubt I'm sure. It can't be easy trying to get that many people to where they are supposed to go succesfully. but guess what, 99.9% of the time they are successful.

So how about you relax & de-stress instead of gearing up for ww3 based on that 0.1%

LOL! My kids are 15, 25 and 27.

Do you know what the word "IF" means?? It means, "in case", "uncertain", etc. I've been saying all of this, only IF an agent were to force us apart! I'm not expecting it to happen!!

And the meaning of "force": physical power or strength.

So, in the incertain situation that an agent were to physically use power or strength, I would respond in kind. I would not allow the agent to distance me from my child. I guess you would!

My responses are to the person who said that they were "pretty much forced" apart. I don't believe they were forced at all. I believe that they were intimidated a bit, and concluded that the kids would be okay because there was another adult, that's all. There was no forcing.

Words mean things. Words like "if" and "forced".

 

[duffy]

I would love to hear 1 example of a TSA physically forcing anyone to get on a shuttle and leave the area.......
Many times people take the authority and get scared.... TSA probably doesn't even realize the are separating people......

Best bet is to be firm and calm and nothing physical should be needed..... I have honestly run into 99% very good, nice TSA agents...... maybe 1% have been idiots..... I am sure it comes with stress of the job.

I worked airport security (pre-TSA) and it honestly sucked. I can't imagine what it would be like now a days...

My bolding, and here you go:

Be very careful thinking this when you are going thru MCO. A couple years back I was flying with my sis, her hubby, and their 3 kids. We were put into seperate lines and me, sis, and her youngest made it thur way ahead of the rest of the gang. TSA would not let us wait for them, and in fact forced us to get on the shuttle to the other part of the airport. We tried to explain we were waiting for the rest of our family, and they just told us we had no choice, we had to board the shuttle.

We were happy we had the youngest with us, as my brother in law can be a bit scatter-brained, and the youngest would have not liked being seperated from her mom. But I still think it wrong that they pretty much forced marched us onto the next shuttle.

Moral of the story is, stick together like glue!

 

[dudspizza]

My bolding, and here you go:

I would love to hear from maxiesmom to see if they physically forced them to get on the shuttle....... I can't see any TSA agent physically pushing people to move.... maybe verbally telling them to move on (which is how I read maxiesmom's post), but not phyically pushing them....

 

[duffy]

I would love to hear from maxiesmom to see if they physically forced them to get on the shuttle....... I can't see any TSA agent physically pushing people to move.... maybe verbally telling them to move on (which is how I read maxiesmom's post), but not phyically pushing them....

Maybe you get it now. Read some more posts. As I said in a previous post, that you maybe haven't read, I don't believe there was any physical force. Just intimidation, and the knowledge that there was a "back up" adult.

Now, if--in the very unlikely scenario that probably won't happen--an agent were to get physical with you, pushing you, would you push back? Or just abandon your child?

 

[dudspizza]

Maybe you get it now. Read some more posts. As I said in a previous post, that you maybe haven't read, I don't believe there was any physical force. Just intimidation, and the knowledge that there was a "back up" adult.

Now, if--in the very unlikely scenario that probably won't happen--an agent were to get physical with you, pushing you, would you push back? Or just abandon your child?

A TSA agent isn't going to push me.

Way too much drama on this thread (I have read every single post).

Have a nice day.

Duds

 

[duffy]