Why do the Rentals really matter?

[Anjelica]

Case in point, someone posted recently that they go to WDW every December, but they always make two additional reservations for the same week to rent out. If everybody did this, the competition for December reservations would become ridiculous.

Really? That's kind of a bummer for those DVC families who want to go at that time. I think thats sad and just not cool - but thats only my opinion....

 

[TammyAlphabet]

Thanks for explaining. My only concern is, if we plan to book our vacations during holidays--would it be better to buy at SSR, a larger resort, increasing our luck at receiving a ressie? I am leaning towards BWV but it seems to be one of the smaller DVC properties. Thanks again.

If you call at the 11 month window and book each day, day by day, I don't think it matters which resort you own. Call as soon as the window opens first thing when MS opens and you will get your reservation. It is necessary to do this to get the reservation that you want? Probably not, but, if you want to be sure, this will work. So if you like BWV (like me), go for it.

 

[dianeschlicht]

A wholesale renter is going to grab as much time as possible in "primetime" because that is easiest for them to sell at a high price. This is why I'm glad to see DVC cracking down on these business operations. They are throwing off a more natural use of points. 5000 points spread among several owners will be "spent" throughout the year. 5000 points consolidated in a business will eat up a great deal of primetime inventory and make it unnaturally difficult to book these times.

The other way renting hurts us is when we "pay" for our non-DVC trips and a decrease in breakage income DVC might share with us at budget time. If non-Disney renting brings down the price Disney can charge, then we don't receive as much $$$ per point and end up having to use more points to "pay" for non-DVC resorts, cruises etc.

Very well put, Pam, and bears repeating.

 

[JimMIA]

Thanks for explaining. My only concern is, if we plan to book our vacations during holidays--would it be better to buy at SSR, a larger resort, increasing our luck at receiving a ressie? I am leaning towards BWV but it seems to be one of the smaller DVC properties. Thanks again.

If you plan primarily on traveling at Thanksgiving and Christmas -- AND if you can book more than seven months in advance -- I would buy where you want to stay. If you can't book during the 11 month window, it doesn't matter where you buy, because there will be no home resort advantage.

 

[bobbiwoz]

...

The other way renting hurts us is when we "pay" for our non-DVC trips and a decrease in breakage income DVC might share with us at budget time. If non-Disney renting brings down the price Disney can charge, then we don't receive as much $$$ per point and end up having to use more points to "pay" for non-DVC resorts, cruises etc.

So, even renting to get cash for a cruise, really does affect the bottom line for all of us? DVC expects us to use points for non-DVC vacations, so they would not want ANY of us renting our points?

Is that what you're saying?

Bobbi

 

[gchiker]

With enforcement of the rule, Disney has clamped down on the TRANSFER OF POINTS from one account to another. How is this going to prevent a "DVC Dealer" from renting points and making reservations for the renters?

 

[Lasrnw]

I've read all your comments to my original post but the issue still remains these people that are renting the points out....they own the points same and you and me....and if they wanted to go for the holidays themselves they could - they own the points. It doesn't really matter who is sleeping in the beds the points are still owned by someone and entitled to be used.....so why is it that my friend can walk into ******* Travel and book this past Wednesday for the entire week from Christmas to New Years in a 2 br and I can't. Are the units being oversold?
And not to start another issue but...this calling MS everday at the 11th month window as soon as they open up that morning doesn't fly for those of us that have jobs....I can't tell my employer...you need to understand if I don't stay on hold with MS for 25 minutes everyday this week as soon as I get in I won't be needed those vacation days I put in for.
Please understand this is just my opinion.

 

[JimMIA]

I've read all your comments to my original post but the issue still remains these people that are renting the points out....they own the points same and you and me....and if they wanted to go for the holidays themselves they could - they own the points. It doesn't really matter who is sleeping in the beds the points are still owned by someone and entitled to be used.....so why is it that my friend can walk into ******* Travel and book this past Wednesday for the entire week from Christmas to New Years in a 2 br and I can't. Are the units being oversold?

The answer to this question is in my post #5, and also in Doc's post above. Doc explained it in quite a bit of detail. It's not a question of overbooking; there are two seperate inventories of availability.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I've read all your comments to my original post but the issue still remains these people that are renting the points out....they own the points same and you and me....and if they wanted to go for the holidays themselves they could - they own the points. It doesn't really matter who is sleeping in the beds the points are still owned by someone and entitled to be used.....so why is it that my friend can walk into ******* Travel and book this past Wednesday for the entire week from Christmas to New Years in a 2 br and I can't. Are the units being oversold?
And not to start another issue but...this calling MS everday at the 11th month window as soon as they open up that morning doesn't fly for those of us that have jobs....I can't tell my employer...you need to understand if I don't stay on hold with MS for 25 minutes everyday this week as soon as I get in I won't be needed those vacation days I put in for.
Please understand this is just my opinion.

I don't call day by day unless I am trying to get a GV, and I have NEVER stayed on hold for MS more than 3 minutes by calling right at 9. Obviously you didn't read the whole thread or you would understand that the difference is in different inventory. Points and units already TRADED back to Disney are no longer in the DVC system.

 

[JimMIA]

And not to start another issue but...this calling MS everday at the 11th month window as soon as they open up that morning doesn't fly for those of us that have jobs....I can't tell my employer...you need to understand if I don't stay on hold with MS for 25 minutes everyday this week as soon as I get in I won't be needed those vacation days I put in for.
Please understand this is just my opinion.

Well, the system is what it is...for now, at least. The recent policy change denying renters access to MS should help reduce the wait times.

DVC is workiing hard to upgrade their computer system, and we are hoping that we'll eventually get online booking. Personally, I think that would be a huge improvement, but I also think it will be quite a while before we see that.

 

[crisi]

Also keep in mind when Disney moves prime days of their inventory to prime weeks, it benefits those DVCers who transfer out. DVC needs to pay for all those cruises, stays at the Poly or trips to NYC. If the rooms sit empty or are rented for low rates in the offseason, the point value required to trade goes up because Disney needs more points to cover the outside charges. If they rent a few rooms over prime holiday weeks when they are pretty sure they will sell and they can charge lots of money for them, the point value to trade goes down (or at least stays more stable). So when Disney rents prime weeks, DVC members (at least the ones that use their points outside the system) benefit.

When an individual does the same thing, the only pockets they line are their own. It doesn't benefit the DVC community at all.

 

[mushpurple]

It is no different whether they use or rent. The dues is paid and the purchase lines Disney's pockets. They also might get buy a DVC which lines Disney's pockets more and has more people paying maintenance.

 

[Lewisc]

My guess is Disney is looking to stop "morphing" before the Contemporary DVC opens. Try to find a way to limit the 11 month booking window to points that were actually purchased for the Contemporary.

My guess is Disney wants to reduce the number of guests who are able to follow the suggestion of internet boards and rent points as a way to stay in a deluxe hotel at a discount.

Renting isn't always the best way to stay. Some people were able to get free dining with a BWV reservation, directly through Disney. Try to do that renting points, for a weekend stay.

 

[dianeschlicht]

When an individual does the same thing, the only pockets they line are their own. It doesn't benefit the DVC community at all.

Absolutely.

 

[mochabean]

Also keep in mind when Disney moves prime days of their inventory to prime weeks, it benefits those DVCers who transfer out. DVC needs to pay for all those cruises, stays at the Poly or trips to NYC. If the rooms sit empty or are rented for low rates in the offseason, the point value required to trade goes up because Disney needs more points to cover the outside charges. If they rent a few rooms over prime holiday weeks when they are pretty sure they will sell and they can charge lots of money for them, the point value to trade goes down (or at least stays more stable). So when Disney rents prime weeks, DVC members (at least the ones that use their points outside the system) benefit.

When an individual does the same thing, the only pockets they line are their own. It doesn't benefit the DVC community at all.

But whether Disney takes the prime weeks to rent or an individual does it, what matters to many people including the OP is not who gets the money, but that reservations for those prime weeks are much harder to get.

Ignoring financial considerations, Disney itself by taking prime weeks out of inventory to pay for trades is acting exactly like a commerical renter in the sense that they are reserving the prime time in order to make more money. Of course the money they make goes to reduce the point cost for trades, which benefits traders, but it also takes an unproportional amount of the prime time out of member's inventory which makes it harder to book the busy times at less than 7 months out.

Whether Disney does this to a large extent I do not know, so how much Disney affects prime time availability versus how much commercial renters affect prime time availability by doing this is unknown.

Obviously I have left the "morphing" of points out of the argument, but commercial renters who abide by the rules and don't "morph" points are still able to book prime time 11 months in advance for rental purposes and remain within the rules.

 

[LisaS]

Obviously I have left the "morphing" of points out of the argument, but commercial renters who abide by the rules and don't "morph" points are still able to book prime time 11 months in advance for rental purposes and remain within the rules.

Yep, but it just comes across as greedy and not very neighborly.

There are also members who post stories on the R/T board "I can only pay $X per point. Can somebody help me out?" and then you discover they run a vacation home rental business on the web. And you have to wonder whether the cheap points they got from those considerate DVC'ers who thought they were helping out a fellow member were actually used to rent out DVC villas to one of their customers.

 

[disneygrandma]

I think a lot of the difference of opinions, from my view, is the way these commercial renters do business. If someone rents out their points based upon the dates the renter is looking for, that seems similar to the occasional renters, only on a larger scale. However, if a commercial renter has acquired a lot of points, either by purchasing, or in most cases from transferred points that morph to home resort status........and then use these points for the sole purpose of grabbing a lot of prime reservations at the 11 month mark, then that is a completely different story. These prime time reservations are made so they can be sold for a profit. These are not reservations that the owner couldn't use, these are carefully planned out and made at 11 months to ensure they would have the reservations to sell. This adds to their business inventory, and takes away from the DVC inventory that would be available to the DVC members wanting to make a prime time reservation for their own use.

 

[crisi]

There was a debate a long time ago about members getting request preferences over renters and guests. Some people here feel they should - after all, they argue, they paid for the membership and delighting individual families and rewarding loyalty to the program should be part of the deal. Some people believe they shouldn't. I see both sides.

But I also see both sides here...yes, when we aren't talking morphed points (that is a definate loophole) those points belong to the member, if they want to book Christmas week and rent to the highest bidder on eBay, that is their business. But that does seem to be against the spirit of what DVC is - it lines the pockets of the owner with no benefit to the other members (and arguably, creates problems for the other members). In other words, I don't think the behavior is immoral or even unethical, but I wouldn't participate in it because I don't think its "nice."

 

[patsal]

I am not anti-rent(er), I am anti book a room at the busiest times of year and rent that reservation out thereby blocking a legitimate member from having a room. I would not have an issue with someone who has points expiring renting them, or someone renting points then making the reservation. I do have issues with booking the F&W, Christmas, etc. with the sole intention of renting them for a profit.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

It seems to me that the spirit of DVC is making a profit by providing people with nice accomodations. I don't see the difference between DVC doing it and a commerical renter doing it. Is the notion that if people couldn't rent their points out they would instead go into breakage therefore benefiting the community at large at the expense of the one? The OP's friend booked her vacation well in advance of 60 days. That means (according to the explanations provided) that DVC is doing exactly the same thing a commerical renter does...reserving space during prime times so they can rent it out for prime money...well in advance of the sixty day mark.

It would be interesting to be able to watch the waitlist to see if there is a sudden flood of availability in late September if DVC gave up on trying to rent out prime time so that they could sop up owner points instead. That would be just in time for most people to get cheap(er) airfare and to simultaneously prevent them from taking their christmas vacation dollars to another location.

Oh and...it doesn't appear that renting is affecting DVC's ability to rent units out at very high prices.