Why did Olivia's @ OKW have to change?

[Pa@okw95]

This is what happens when you have all those meal deals so everyone can afford to eat anywhere. This is just another lowering of standards to meet the needs of the masses. The restaurants are full with the masses now, just like everything else down there over the years the standards have lowered. At least WDW can not affect the nice winter weather which is the only reason I still bother to go down there anymore.

 

[OKWAnneMarie]

I'm disappointed about this also.

Admittedly, I have a very simple palate.... but the "Buttermilk Chicken with mashed potatoes and vegetables" was one of my very favorite entrees on property.

What is the appropriate address to pass along our opinions on these changes?

When I ate there last month, I spoke to the server (who has worked there for many, many years) about all the changes. She rolled her eyes and said Olivia's had new managment and they think what they are doing is right. She pointed out one of the new managers to me. I "think" her name was Tanya (I don't remember). She looked about 16 years old.

I approached her and I asked her about the changes. She said they changed the menu and took off the items that didn't sell. I said I couldn't believe the "Buttermilk chicken" didn't sell well, it was VERY popular. She got snippy with me and said NO IT DIDN'T SELL WELL. And she said to me, "Sorry, these are the changes we made" and walked away from me.

What the new management doesn't seem to understand is that a restaurant like Olivia's in a resort like Old Key West should try to cater to its customers. They should keep the popular items.

Maybe they are trying to attract people from other resorts or maybe they just don't care.

 

[Rozzie]

I was told by a long time employee of Olivia's that all the resort restaurants (and a good many park restaurants) are losing money because of the DDP. Somehow they are supposed to get reimbursed for money they are losing from the resorts, but they haven't seen any reimbursement. So they are streamlining the menu's to shave costs. So what do we get in return? A watered down menu.

That is just what he said. Makes sense to me. Sad though, pretty soon, you won't be able to tell the restuarants apart. Same food, just different colored seats.

 

[jjohnson]

We've already decided not to do the DP next trip & are planning on trying the non-DP restaurants. At least I won't feel like we are at a wedding reception.

 

[Granny]

Like most things in business (and life, I suppose), I think this is another pendulum that will eventually swing back.

Right now it seems that Disney is "standardizing" the menus to make the DDP less expensive for them to offer. After a while, people will start to look elsewhere (= off site) for variety and unique dishes.

Disney is all about capturing as much of the tourist dollar possible, and they will then probably start touting their unique items that they'll be adding back to the menus.

It will be interesting to watch. My guess is that there are a whole lot of WDW guests who are willing to put up with less menu options in order to make a WDW trip more affordable.

Us DVCers and other frequent WDW visitors probably tend to look more for the nice menu options. But I'll bet there are a ton of people who come to WDW and eat mostly at the counter service places with the infrequent table service meal.

In any event, I will join with those who like to see unique items on the menu. Can you imagine Jiko's or Artist Point going this route?

 

[MonkeyPants]

they changed the menu?!?!?! this will not sit well with my family. I've always thought it was decent, but my mom, aunt and a few others in my family love to eat there at least once when down at WDW, no matter if we are staying at OKW or not.


I dont know how I shall ever be able to break the news to them

 

[littlestar]

My family is in mourning over the buttermilk chicken breasts. That's why we ate at Olivia's every trip.

 

[Chuck S]

Since this thread is getting away from Planning, I'm moving it to the Mousecellaneous board.

 

[smjj]

I doubt that has much to do with it. Very few guest use cash. Most are either room chargers or cc. With those type of payments, tips are put onto their pay stubs as well, I'm guessing.

Laura

I always tip in cash for the simple reason the wait staff prefer it. My son waited tables a Appleee's and let us know what another poster already stated. A $5.00 tip in cash is better than a $5.00 tip that gets taxes to death. Having said that I aggree that the food is now convention type food. On our last trip to OKW this May they had just changed the menu. We normally eat there once a day or so. We were so disappointed in the menu changes, we ate there just that one time. I doubt that WDW will ever go back to the old menus either. They just don't seem to care as much as they use too...smjj

 

[Chuck S]

I always tip in cash for the simple reason the wait staff prefer it. My son waited tables a Appleee's and let us know what another poster already stated. A $5.00 tip in cash is better than a $5.00 tip that gets taxes to death. Having said that I aggree that the food is now convention type food. On our last trip to OKW this May they had just changed the menu. We normally eat there once a day or so. We were so disappointed in the menu changes, we ate there just that one time. I doubt that WDW will ever go back to the old menus either. They just don't seem to care as much as they use too...smjj

I don't think it is so much "they don't care" but "you can't please all of the people all of the time". Remember, there were posts and more posts about why we DVCers should be able to get the dining plan. I think it is more a case of "be careful what you wish for, you may get it." Prior to DVCers being eligible for the DDP, the restaurant board was filled with ways to "max out" the dining plan, even the "free" dining plan.

Push came to shove, and by reading the boards, it seemed a vast majority of folks wanted the dining plan, and knew how to work the system (child credits for adult meals, meal sharing, etc.) When meals that sold for $35 or more were walking out the door, including tip, for $11 or less something had to give. Notice Olivia's didn't change until DVCers could add the plan, while there were already reports of changes in the "regular" restaurants. At the moment most guests seem to prefer quantity over quality, however, I'd be more than willing to go for the "quality" with much smaller portions.

 

[gppnj]

This is a very disheartening thread.

This reminds me of the whole FastPass debacle. There are advantages to FastPass, but there are also disadvantages. For a while. Disney management was on a FastPass kick and put it in everywhere - even in places that didn't remotely need it. (Offhand I think this was more extreme at Disneyland, but I'm not certain.) Now the pendulum has started to swing the other way: Some FastPasses are being ripped out, and some major new attractions aren't getting it at all.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Push came to shove, and by reading the boards, it seemed a vast majority of folks wanted the dining plan, and knew how to work the system (child credits for adult meals, meal sharing, etc.) When meals that sold for $35 or more were walking out the door, including tip, for $11 or less something had to give. Notice Olivia's didn't change until DVCers could add the plan, while there were already reports of changes in the "regular" restaurants. At the moment most guests seem to prefer quantity over quality, however, I'd be more than willing to go for the "quality" with much smaller portions.

Chuck, I think you got it!!! Maybe this is why DVC was given the Dining Plan!! All the other restaurants were going to standard menus to keep costs down. (remember, they are doing this at the bars/lounges too with standard drink menus) If DVC didnt have the dining plan, people would have more choice and would be paying for that choice. But if you put EVERYONE on the plan, people are willing to sacrifice that choice for the sake of convenience and saving money. Its Mass conversion WalMart style. Get rid of all the unique little shops and then everyone is forced to shop at WalMart whether they like it or not.
All restaurants have to manage costs. They can do that by cutting labor, staff, or food. If they purchase in bulk, and require less preparation, they will save money in food and staff.
We all naively thought that the gravy train was going to run forever, that Disney was going to continue to serve surf and turf and Cindy slippers for the price of cheeseburgers and mickey bars. They hooked us all and then pulled the switch and made us like it! LOL!

 

[starbox]

I've been going to WDW since the park opened (grew up in Florida and the MK and I are almost the same age). The menus have always changed. I can't even count how many times Cinderella's Royal Table has altered the menu. When the Sci Fi Diner opened up they had things like grilled cheese sandwiches and chicken and stars soup on the dinner menu (and that was for adults - I was on my senior trip first time I ate there). I don't think the menu changes are that linked to the DDP - the number of people who visit and eat in Disney vs. the number even eligible for the plan is not that great. During "free" dining, Disney was able to rope people into purchasing full rack rate room packages during their slowest time of the year. The new menu at Ohana actually seems like it would be more expensive than the last menu (my mom asked for and got the recipe for the potatoes and you would not believe the ingredients or time intensive procedure).

The DDP makes Disney money. In order for it to actually save anyone money they need to make ADRs, eat dinner TS, and avoid buffets. Even then, all Disney is "giving away" is drinks, appetizers, and desserts - all the highest profit items. This is why Disney pushes the plan as hard as they do - it's not because they are overly generous and want everyone to cut into their profits. Lots and lots of people lose out on the plan, (although probably not DIS readers). The first time we used the plan the CM at check out commented "Wow - you don't have any meal credits left". I asked her if that was unusual and she said most people checked out with a lot of credits -especially TS credits - left over because they just don't plan ahead and end up unable to use them. Sure, a few dishonest people try to cheat the system but I think Disney is addressing those issues by labeling the cards with the number of child and adult meals and training CMs to be more diligent about the scammers.

 

[Chuck S]

The restaurants are busy, yes, but if they are giving away the beverage, appetizers and desserts (which as you say are the highest profit menu items) how is that lost revenue made up, in volume? Well, I doubt they could sell enough entrees to make up the lost revenue from the high profit items on every meal...so then that means serving less expensive (and lower quality) entrees.

To the question of left over credits, I suspect it is not the restaurants that benefit from this, I mean how would Disney decide how much in leftover credit each restaurant should get? I suspect it is showing as a huge profit to WDW Travel, but the restaurants must still financially justify their menus and prices based on what they actually serve, and are not reaping the benefits of unused credits.

 

[Rozzie]

The restaurants are busy, yes, but if they are giving away the beverage, appetizers and desserts (which as you say are the highest profit menu items) how is that lost revenue made up, in volume? .

Exactly. As one that is married to the restaurant business, I know first hand this is correct. The majority of your profit is beverage, apps, and desserts. That is why servers are always instructed to "sell" these when you go out to eat. The meat and tater's pays for the cost of the restaurant, (labor, actual cost of food, utilities, etc) the "addons" brings the profit to the bottom line.

We spoke with several CMs at Olivia's. They were the one's who mentioned the DDP killing the menu, not us.

Actually there is a rumor is that Chef's is dropping the DDP starting Jan 07, as they are behind in profit. I am glad actually. I would hate to them mainstream that menu anymore.

Hey Starbox, I've been going since 1975 too. There has been lots of changes for sure. Some great, some not so great.

 

[starbox]

The restaurants are busy, yes, but if they are giving away the beverage, appetizers and desserts (which as you say are the highest profit menu items) how is that lost revenue made up, in volume? Well, I doubt they could sell enough entrees to make up the lost revenue from the high profit items on every meal...so then that means serving less expensive (and lower quality) entrees.

My point with the free appetizer comment was that only the most savvy consumers will plan their dining plan well enough to actually end up with "free" appetizers/desserts.

If I take 35.00 adult per day - take off 10$ for typical CS (a 6-7$ entree plus a 3$ dessert with Disney "giving away" my drink)

That leaves 25$ for TS. Other than added cost of dessert and appetizer, most entrees would not cost much (if any) more than 25$. Buffet dinners run around that price. Maybe a few dollars difference. Now, IF I plan wisely, I can do better on the plan, but my point is that with the DDP, for every person wise enough to make ADRs and eat at the Coral Reef for dinner, there is probably at least one person that ends up eating breakfast TS and one CS and paying 35 bucks for meals that would have been much cheaper otherwise, and there is probably one person that does not get a TS ressie at all because they don't plan ahead. And that's not even taking into account the ridiculous mark-up on the menus anyway because your really paying for the ambiance and the convenience of eating in the parks.

Take the kids meal - 11.00 on the plan. This gets me, typically a CS lunch of something like a chicken drumstick or hotdog, a little bag of mickey cheese puffs and a little tub of applesauce. Plus dessert - which is often things like cheesecake or carrot cake that I end up skipping for the kids. Dinner - maybe a grilled cheese or spaghetti, a drink, fries, and a scoop of ice cream. Okay - even at the DP rate Disney is making money off of me - there is no way food cost is anywhere near 11.00.

If it is true that the WDW travel folk are not giving back to the restaurants - that's a problem - but I feel pretty confident that the DDP money being brought in would be more than enough to cover food costs and have $$ left over. I've never had illusions that the DP is a cheap way to eat, but I think it is convenient way to pre-pay and I really enjoy the plan. I've been disappointed with menu changes and food quality both pre and post DP, and I've been happy about menu changes and food quality both pre and post DDP. I think most of the recent dining changes are linked more to Disney having a new Disney CEO that is clearly focused on raising profit margins in the theme parks than it is to the addition of the DDP, which is by nature always going to comprise a small sub-group of diners and an even smaller sub-group of consumer-educated, pre-planning diners.

 

[starbox]

Hey Starbox, I've been going since 1975 too. There has been lots of changes for sure. Some great, some not so great.

I still miss 20,000 Leauges under the Sea. I'll never forget the moment I got old enough to realize that the submarines did not actually dive.

 

[Chuck S]

I think most of the recent dining changes are linked more to Disney having a new Disney CEO that is clearly focused on raising profit margins in the theme parks than it is to the addition of the DDP, which is by nature always going to comprise a small sub-group of diners and an even smaller sub-group of consumer-educated, pre-planning diners.

Except, wasn't Eisner perceived as being too focused on the profit margins? Food was better when he was there.

And I wouldn't call it a "small sub-group" of people using the dining plan. It used to be true when packages were cosidered pricey...now it seems (even according to you) that the Dining Plan is the way to go, nor would I consider the majority of people using the dining as being in the dark about how to use it. When you have $25 for a sit down entree, it sounds like a lot. But, then there is the drink, dessert, and appetizer to pay for from that $25, as well as taxes, wages and server tip. That could eat up ay profit pretty quickly.

For instance, lets say a retailer sells Root Beer for $1.50 a bottle and that bottle costs him 60 cents, leaving a profit of 90 cents.

Say his other product is chips, which he sells at $1, and pays 40 cents for each pkg.

To increase sales of Root Beer, he gives away a package of chips if someone buys 2 bottles of the soda. Now he is selling 2 bottles of soda and a pkg of chips for $3.00. The cost to the retailer is $1.60, making $1.40 profit, instead of his normal
profit of $2.40 on those same items. At the same time, he is giving his employees an 18% tip on the retail value for selling the items (or 67 cents), dropping his profit to 73 cents for the transaction. How many of these sets, not even counting the increased labor and operating expenses to sell them, will he have to sell to make his original $2.40 profit?

The answer is 3.28. In other words, he has to sell over 6 bottles of soda with 3 bags of chips to make up for what would be his normal profit on 2 sodas and 1 bag of chips. And these are small items. How many "DDP" meals (with free drinks, appetizer and dessert) do you think a restaurant has to has to sell to make up the lost profit? Especially considering the drinks, appetizer and dessert ARE their high profit items, not the entree? More than 3, I'll bet.

 

[mello]

I suspect it is showing as a huge profit to WDW Travel, but the restaurants must still financially justify their menus and prices based on what they actually serve, and are not reaping the benefits of unused credits.

It must be profitable to some branch of the company, or they wouldn't continue to offer it. The question is, why are the restaurants being held accountable for justifying their menus when the profits aren't being passed along to them??? That isn't right. I wonder what would happen if WDW Travel started reimbusing the restaurants for the actual cost of the meals? Then the restaurants would be doing fantastic, and the Travel company wouldn't be doing so great. Then do you s'pose the cost of the dining plan would go up? Or S'pose maybe they'd trim the extras down somewhat, to say, either an appetizer or a dessert? Maybe we'd even see some creativity in the menus again? I don't think any of those would be bad things.

 

[starbox]

Except, wasn't Eisner perceived as being too focused on the profit margins? Food was better when he was there.

And I wouldn't call it a "small sub-group" of people using the dining plan. It used to be true when packages were cosidered pricey...now it seems (even according to you) that the Dining Plan is the way to go, nor would I consider the majority of people using the dining as being in the dark about how to use it. When you have $25 for a sit down entree, it sounds like a lot. But, then there is the drink, dessert, and appetizer to pay for from that $25, as well as taxes, wages and server tip. That could eat up ay profit pretty quickly.

All the business trades suggest that Iger is theme-park focused in his profit strategies. He became CEO in 05 - I think your we are starting to see the effects of the parks being "under new management". DDP would never have been expanded to DVC if it was not a profit maker.

As far as the small sub-set - that's because the majority of tourists visiting the parks are NOT WDW resort guests. They are staying at the hundreds of other time shares or hundreds of other hotels, visiting family, or they are local. Only resort guests on a package or DVC members staying on points can even purchase the DDP - and that's a small sub-group of total WDW diners. More resort and DVC members are using the plan (and I think that's just what Iger wants) but MOST diners can't even get the plan because they are not staying on property or are not on a package.

What the DDP does is increase traffic in the restaurants. The popular restaurants are impossible to get into without ADRS (pre DP, I remember making same day ressies for CRT) and the less popular (and less pricey) restaurants are getting lots of overflow business from people still paying big $$ to eat.


From the Orlando sentinel: Feb 06
"Theme park revenue increased 13 percent to $2.4 billion in the quarter, and operating profit was up 51 percent to $375 million."