Why did Disney change thier point charts for next year?

[ShellyLynn3630]

Why do you think Disney changed the points for next year? I am assuming that it will somehow benefit them one way or another. I know the company I work for-General Electric never makes any changes unless it is for thier betterment.

 

[disney1474]

I think the main reason they changed them was because alot of people complained that weekends were too many points.

 

[RobDoc]

The short answer is "Because they can."

The long explanation is that DVC has the authority and responsibility to balance the utilization of the DVC resorts. If there are nights going unused year-after-year then they need to reallocate the point charts to reflect a better utilization of the resorts.

In practice, this has happened only once in the past - 1996 at OKW and while DVC has had ample opportunity as each new resort opens, they have not made any major adjustments until now.

They did adjust the opening point charts for SSR (different than other WDW resorts), AKV (different views, different categories, different amenities) and even BLT (yet to open) and now have even made significant changes to those point charts along with all of the other resorts. BLTs points will change a mere 4 months after it opens this fall.

While I have no major issue with the actual changes (weekends were generally lowered, weeknights were generally raised - across the board), I do take exception with the sloppy manner DVC chose to implement these changes and the horrible guest relations manner in which the new charts were presented, removed (with the excuse that they were incorrect) and then reposted again today exactly the same as what was supposedly incorrect.

Hopefully, members (and those considering future purchase) will recognize that DVC does have the ability to reallocate the point charts without consult with the owners. Many have been lured into a false security since it had not happened since 1996, but are now aware - painfully in some cases - that it can happen.

 

[chalee94]

the pt structure currently costs roughly the same to stay 5 weeknights as it does to stay 2 weekend nights.

so if every single DVC member decided to maximize their pts by staying 5 weeknights and avoiding weekends, the rooms would sit empty on the weekends and half the DVC owners would be locked out and would be unable to find a weeknight reservation in a given year. this would result in a lot of upset DVC owners.

while it's not likely that every owner would choose to avoid weekends, it is possible that a lot of us are choosing that. as a result, a competent timeshare manager would need to adjust the point charts in order to even out demand - which would mean that every owner would be able to use their points and every room (or at least 95% or so) would be filled.

shorter stays also mean more housekeeping costs than weekly stays, so i'm sure they'd also like to encourage more weeklong stays by owners.

there are valid reasons to make this sort of change, but making it a week or so before 2010 bookings are about to start is ill-advised...

 

[ShellyLynn3630]

Ya, I get the Because they can reason pretty much. Thats the way is works with GE as well. I just figured it may have something to do with this economy and all.

 

[Starr W.]

Ya, I get the Because they can reason pretty much. Thats the way is works with GE as well. I just figured it may have something to do with this economy and all.

I think they would have done it if the economy was still robust.
We usually stay over the weekends, either coming in Thur, Fri or Sat. I was just at BWV for MLK weekend and I think I saw more maids than other guests on the hike to the elevators.

 

[Val]

IF they were trying to balance out S-thurs and FS, then the point total for a weeks stay would have remained the same. As it is, many of us now have to spend MORE points for the same week.....and they made the increase during the summer months, when many of us are restricted to traveling.

I think they are trying to sell more points....the ol' "gee, I am now 10 points shy, so I will add points- in 50 point increments"......I no longer believe that there is any "customer" in WDW, it is ALL about profit. Funny thing is, DVC customers got them through the down times in 2001- and they may very well be biting the hand that feeds them. Will be VERY interesting......

 

[mom2missmous]

IF they were trying to balance out S-thurs and FS, then the point total for a weeks stay would have remained the same. As it is, many of us now have to spend MORE points for the same week.....and they made the increase during the summer months, when many of us are restricted to traveling.

I think they are trying to sell more points....the ol' "gee, I am now 10 points shy, so I will add points- in 50 point increments"......I no longer believe that there is any "customer" in WDW, it is ALL about profit. Funny thing is, DVC customers got them through the down times in 2001- and they may very well be biting the hand that feeds them. Will be VERY interesting......

I tend to agree with you! we are very upset over this change which will result in the shortening of our vacations! We bought exactly enough points for a 6 night stay in a 1 bedroom (our normal stay at the time due to driving time needed to get to Florida). It worked out for us that we could stay almost 2 weeks by stretching out our points ( we would go to usf or tampa on one weekend to be with other family members who live in the area). Being a teacher, we have to travel in the summer. Now thanks to DVC mess- up our vacations are all screwed up in the future! I could live with a 1 pt increase per night but two really hurts! Right now I hate DVC and will stop recommending them to my friends. Between this and the new waitlist policy, it seems we people who can't afford the big point contracts are sc@@ed.

 

[BroganMc]

Funny thing is, DVC customers got them through the down times in 2001- and they may very well be biting the hand that feeds them. Will be VERY interesting......

As with all corporations these days, I suspect they are also on the wrong track. As you say, DVC played a huge role in getting the resorts through the downtimes post-9/11. But management over the last 2 years has proven they do not know how to court DVC members. They've been seduced by the growth in sales post-SSR opening. DVC is a cash cow for them so they think nothing of milking her for more.

I expect they're counting on a bunch of add-on contracts to cover the shortfalls. Instead they'll be getting shortened stays and lots of member unrest.

Biting the hand that feeds them is a VERY dangerous thing to do right now. For all corporations. People are not as spurred on by the humbling perspective of terrorist threats today. No one is saying "yeah the economy sucks but at least I'm alive". They're saying "the economy sucks and I have to protect myself for my long life ahead".

 

[SSR DVC'er]

I think the main reason they changed them was because alot of people complained that weekends were too many points.

The points have been the same since 1996, so the majority of DVC owners knew when purchasing DVC, that weekend points were expensive!! Why complain when you know what your buying into??

This shake up in points is for one reason and one reason only to stop people checking out of DVC on weekends and going off site. To keep you on property spending your money in Disney shops and restaurants. PURE and SIMPLY GREED.

Pete has been talking about the way Disney have taken the piss out of its most loyal customers (AP holders and DVC members) for months, and this is another fine example of this. Another guest hostile policy for the benefit of the shareholders and suffering of its fans. I can't wait for the next podcast to hear his views.

I for one will NOT be force into spending more time and money on Disney property. I will just spend longer offsite at Seaworld and Universal.

To have the same vacation in 2010 that I have booked for 2009 it will cost me 40 extra points, disgusting. I will just spend 3 extra nights at Universal.

 

[rutgers1]

I just saw the note about this at dvcmember.com. I had previously read on this board that they couldn't change the points for a stay, which reinforced the idea that you are paying for future vacations with today's dollars. But if they can make that trip cost more points, then they ARE changing what that trip costs me, as I can stay fewer days.

After reading about the change on the site, I figured that the points for a week's stay would be the same at my home resort, SSR. However, although it is nice that they are redistributing some of the points away from the weekend, my studio is going to cost me more points for a week depending on when I go.

Is there ANY limit on how they can change the points for a week at a resort? In other words, if they raise for one category, do they have to lower it for another? Is there a certain number of points total that they have to distribute among their categories? OR can they simply decide to raise EVERYTHING?

This is really upsetting.

 

[RobDoc]

I just saw the note about this at dvcmember.com. I had previously read on this board that they couldn't change the points for a stay, which reinforced the idea that you are paying for future vacations with today's dollars. But if they can make that trip cost more points, then they ARE changing what that trip costs me, as I can stay fewer days.

After reading about the change on the site, I figured that the points for a week's stay would be the same at my home resort, SSR. However, although it is nice that they are redistributing some of the points away from the weekend, my studio is going to cost me more points for a week depending on when I go.

Is there ANY limit on how they can change the points for a week at a resort? In other words, if they raise for one category, do they have to lower it for another? Is there a certain number of points total that they have to distribute among their categories? OR can they simply decide to raise EVERYTHING?

This is really upsetting.

There is no limit as to how much they can raise any night - BUT - if they raise anything, it must be balanced by lowering something else at the same resort. The total number of points needed to stay at any resort is a fixed number (with slight variations based on things like number of weekend nights and leap year). If the pointsyou need for a specific number of nights have increased, someone else's point costs have decreased.

This has happened only once in the past - 1996 for OKW - and many have the misguided understanding that the points for a particular night could not be changed. This is all spelled out in the POS document where it even describes a balanced reallocation where all Studios would have the same point cost for the whole year - with no difference for season or day of the week. The points needed for that reallocation are even described for each resort and each room type.

DVC has done nothing illegal, but the way they chose to communicate the change to the members leaves a lot of room for improvement and complaint.

 

[DMKEDM]

I have no idea if the new points chart affects us or not...I'm one who just adds on (I've done it three times) when I see I'm out of points (including borrowed points) to take the vacations we want to take...so I wasn't (and won't be) one of the many who planned their points needs carefully.

My first reaction to all this was "Well, we all seem to get really upset when there's a change"--to the point where we can't really judge whether the change is good or bad; we're just reacting to the fact of the change. That seems to have been the case with the new rule that you can call 11 (or 7) months from the date of check-in and reserve for up to 7 days...

This one, though, seems different...the key to me is BroganMc--she had such a phenomenal experience w/Disney, at BWV and at SSR, when Grandpa Mohawk broke his leg and they needed some immediate help to begin his convalescence...now she's upset w/DVC, too. If she's upset, it must be really bad.

I've never been one to think that DVC/DVD/Disney would/should consider members' wants and desires except in the context of what would "inspire" them to come to Walt Disney World (or to buy, or buy more, points). They're a business, in business to make money. Not to make people happy--although they make money by making people happy. They'll lose money if they cross the line between what makes them money by making people happy and instead make money (or think they will) and as a result make people unhappy. So all the talk about not making people happy makes no sense to me, unless it results in people selling their points and/or not coming to WDW.

I guess the jury's still out as to whether this new points chart (and/or the mere fact that they did it, w/little notice) makes people so unhappy that they will stop coming to Disney, and/or will sell (or not buy more) points.

I do think a big issue is the learning curve we must all climb to figure out how to use our DVC points effectively. It's not easy or intuitive. And so once learned, having to relearn creates unhappiness. And we've had a lot to relearn this year--the no smoking policy (good or bad, it was a change that affected smokers and nonsmokers alike), waitlists, reservation policy, and now points charts. For me, the biggest and hardest new lesson is the wait list...I've used it a lot, successfully, and now not being able to waitlist day-by-day has very much changed how I can use my DVC points.

So, dear powers that be at Disney--I posit that your problem here is more in the nature of cramming too much change, too fast, down the throats of people who have had to learn (sometimes the hard way, by losing points or having to adjust vacation plans) a relatively complicated system. (Maybe other timeshares are even more complicated; I don't know--DVC is the only one I own...but I do know it's very complicated...rarely if ever do I plan a DVC trip with one phone call without having to think through borrowing, banking, resort choice, villa size, timing, etc.)...add in that these very same folks are worried about their jobs, their savings, their own place in the economic crisis we as a society are experiencing, and it seems to me you're either over that line (of making money by making people happy, vs losing money because you've stopped making people happy to spend their money with you), or are perilously close to it.

I love Disney World. Once, just after 9/11, we went solely and only because I thought "I will NOT let the terrorists wreck us (Disney, specifically)...we're going even if we are scared to fly, even if we did lose a ton in savings." Got there and Disney service (the magic--the reason I spend so much money there--they make me feel so good that it's worth every penny) stank...I'd sprung for the Boardwalk (our very first deluxe stay), and was so disappointed in the cold, uncaring "service" that I almost gave up on Disney altogether. Interestingly, the Monday after our Saturday arrival, the Orlando Sentinel carried a feature story about the bad attitude at Disney among cast members...literally overnight it changed, and it was back to Disney being Disney...but the damage was done. To this day, I dislike the Boardwalk and stay there only as "last choice" (my son loves it, and loves staying at Epcot...so if we can't get into Beach Club and if I can't justify cash for the Yacht Club or the Beach Club Inn, or if he just "begs sufficiently," I'll book a BWV stay...and I enjoy myself when I'm there...but the memory of that bad two days during the post 9/11 trip just doesn't fade)...

Bottom line: the magic of Disney (for us, and I suspect for many) is in the feeling we get when we're there that nothing is too much trouble for us; there's nothing they won't do that can be done to make us happy and comfortable --

For DVC, this points chart change may be for many owners what my bad post 9/11 visit to BWV was--a change that blew the magic away...only for DVC it's a lot more extensive a problem than it was for Boardwalk and my family.

I hope Disney/DVC finds a way to make us feel special again, to make us want to spend our money there because it's so worth it. Maybe they could offer a short time frame during which people could buy the 10 or 20 more points they need to continue their vacation plans (at the price they paid when they made their first decision to buy)? I don't know the answer; I only know that if BroganMc, after her unbelievable experience w/Disney/SSR/BWV just last fall, is this unhappy w/DVC, then DVC definitely has a very real problem!

 

[jennypenny]

I think the main reason for the change was to increase occupancy on Friday and Saturday nights. We've been trying to arrange a last-minute trip over Pres. weekend. Everytime time I call, there are at least two DVC resorts with availability on Friday and Saturday night of that weekend. That's a busy weekend. Those nights *should* be unavailable.

Another reason to reduce the number of Sun-Fri stays--mousekeeping and front desk staff. If say, more than half of all booked stays on points are sun-fri, that means that the hotels have to carry more staff on those days. Conversely, those same staff members are probably underutilized on other days. By eliminating some of the sun-fri advantage, they can try to even out the big changeover days and reduce staffing needs overall.

All that being said, what a BIG PR BLUNDER this has been. The website fiasco was rediculous. And they should have changed the points for 2011 and forward to give members time to adjust their plans. And why do this when so many people are on the fence about selling because of the economy??

And forget about trading out after next year--I can't imagine how many points it will take to cruise or stay at the Poly after next year.

 

[OKW Lover]

Wow. I can't believe some of the comments here.

[rant]
Webmaster Doc has made a very good, understandable explanation of what/why this is happening. Those of us who actually read the documents we signed when we bought DVC knew that it was possible for the number of points per night to be re-allocated. We also knew that the total number of points couldn't be raised/lowered for the year as a whole.

So, after more than 10 years of no change, DVC does a reallocation and people think there is something underhanded going on. Come on folks, this is being done for your benefit in order to even out the occupancy rates between seasons and between weekdays/weekends. Yes, those that had adopted certain stay patterns based on the previous structure may have to learn new behaviors.

There's nothing nefarious about this change. You agreed to it when you bought DVC.

[/rant]::cop:

 

[alldiz]

IF they were trying to balance out S-thurs and FS, then the point total for a weeks stay would have remained the same. As it is, many of us now have to spend MORE points for the same week.....and they made the increase during the summer months, when many of us are restricted to traveling.

I think they are trying to sell more points....the ol' "gee, I am now 10 points shy, so I will add points- in 50 point increments"......I no longer believe that there is any "customer" in WDW, it is ALL about profit. Funny thing is, DVC customers got them through the down times in 2001- and they may very well be biting the hand that feeds them. Will be VERY interesting......

Exactly....makes me crazy....and it will happen.

Honestly....I don't see a difference for me except that it costs me MORE on WEEKENDS and WEEKDAYS for my 1BR. The weekend points are still too high....I couldn't really afford the weekend points before and now I really can't with higher weekday points. My total weekly points is also more....so I can't even stay a full week anymore if I wanted.
I'm glad I borrowed all of my 2010 points already for a DCL cruise so I don't have to think about this madness for a while.....yeah right
Kerri
Kerri

 

[Inkmahm]

The short answer is "Because they can."

The long explanation is that DVC has the authority and responsibility to balance the utilization of the DVC resorts. If there are nights going unused year-after-year then they need to reallocate the point charts to reflect a better utilization of the resorts.

In practice, this has happened only once in the past - 1996 at OKW and while DVC has had ample opportunity as each new resort opens, they have not made any major adjustments until now.

They did adjust the opening point charts for SSR (different than other WDW resorts), AKV (different views, different categories, different amenities) and even BLT (yet to open) and now have even made significant changes to those point charts along with all of the other resorts. BLTs points will change a mere 4 months after it opens this fall.

While I have no major issue with the actual changes (weekends were generally lowered, weeknights were generally raised - across the board), I do take exception with the sloppy manner DVC chose to implement these changes and the horrible guest relations manner in which the new charts were presented, removed (with the excuse that they were incorrect) and then reposted again today exactly the same as what was supposedly incorrect.

Hopefully, members (and those considering future purchase) will recognize that DVC does have the ability to reallocate the point charts without consult with the owners. Many have been lured into a false security since it had not happened since 1996, but are now aware - painfully in some cases - that it can happen.

Excellent answer. Disney did what they SHOULD be doing to balance utilization. The issue we should have with it though is HOW Disney did it. Planning and communication of the changes was really done poorly. There is no excuse at all for "how" the change was done.

 

[MICKEYFAN28]

People have a right to be angry! I don't disagree that disney can make the change and should make a change. It's the fact of how this was just done that is really irritating me. I'm not really going to be affected by this. Instead of going 12 days i'll go 11 one year than do the other the next.
If you just bought BLT with a salespitch of you need this many points to make your trip and you hadn't even booked a room how would you feel.( I didn't buy but feel for these people)
They should have given a better notice! PERIOD. They knew this was coming and should have set the BLT points for their sales pitch. I would not be suprised to see a class action lawsuit coming!!
Eric

 

[DebbieB]

I understand that they are within their rights to do this and that weekend stays were out of balance. But I really disagree with how they handled this. They announced it less than a week before 2010 reservations begin. They announced it right after the points price went up and the minimum for BLT went up. They should have given more notice (like 6 months) but I think they didn't because they didn't want to hurt the initial BLT sales.

 

[nocknock]

If they left each week adding up to the same number of points as a total, then I would not care about the reallocation. The fact that I have to spend more points to get my weekly stay in not right. Yes, I knew they could change them, but who would imagine that it would be random weeks that are more and others less. For those of you who are saying that you will just go one less day to make up for....Do you realize that it is costing you more money since you have to pay the same maintenance to get less?

For those who referenced the 7 day reservation policy not being a problem, it is one. I have been locked out of 2 stays that I have tried for. It is disappointing to call 11 months in advance at 9am only to be told that my first 3 nights are sold out.

As members, I think we should all contact DVC and let them know how you feel. When I called, they said all members are thrilled with the changes.