Why defend Disney

[agavegirl1]

Gingerly acsends Soapbox....

I love theme parks, not just Disney ones. I would love to go to Tokyo and am planning to do so, possibly prior to my next WDW trip in 2018. I am a DIS stockholder, although I have severely reduced my position in the company due to concerns over Asia in general as well as the fact I sold at a "peak price" I don't mind people "defending" Disney, but I do have concerns about those who simply "dismiss" the concerns of others with platitudes and comments like "You don't have to go" or "Nobody says you have to make ADRs" or "You don't have to use FP+". People come to this forum because they want the best value for their investment in a vacation and the tips, tricks, and strategies here have great value.

Hearing different opinions is of value to members of this forum. Hearing the types of comments above when someone has a concern or a complaint, do not. I also use historical information to "guess" park hours, EMH days and party days in order to tentatively plan. I have been subject to "extreme planning frustration" myself. For my 2014 trip, FP+ was in full force and I had no idea how to deal with it. I did end up adding days to my trip because of tiering at two parks so the information here helped immensely. I was also able to "release" a FP+ for Anna and Elsa to another grateful DISer because of this forum. That didn't mean I liked FP+ or the accomodation I needed to make as a result of it. I appreciated the advice I got.

What is not appreciated, are posts extolling the virtues of Disney regardless of what they do or overly complimentary posts about upcharge events that take away from things that used to be included in the ever increasing general admission. Telling me I "don't have to pay to attend them" is not an answer to why Disney is taking away an opportunity to ride, M&G, see something I previously could for the price of admission.

Telling me "computer glitches happen" does not lessen the frustration with MDX back in 2014 when "glitching" was a daily event.

People love WDW and they love Disney. People do not want to be told that their great love has flaws. I have one daughter who is doing a DCL cruise to Norway this summer (her second DCL cruise) and has been to WDW twice with my grandsons. I also have another daughter who will not allow my granddaughter to own anything Disney Princess related. They have agreed to disagree about politics and Disney. The fact that I like WDW pleases one daughter and I do not buy my granddaughter any princess stuff whatsoever.
If you LOVE Disney, then the Disney Corp has tons of ways to indulge....parks, movies, video games, toys, legos, you name it. If you love theme parks, you will make comparisons, you will assess value and you will plan and adapt.

Steps off Soap Box.

 

[goofyernmost]

You're forgetting that there are Disney employees on this board that do know. As well as others who have extensive knowledge of Disney, including inside knowledge. So sure, there's opinion on here - but yeah, there's fact too. And at some point common sense has to enter in too, no matter how much you want to be an optimist and give the benefit of the doubt.

I would have to disagree with that. I'm sure that there are Disney employees (CM's) that frequent the boards. However, unless they are in the board rooms at the time that decisions are made are merely passing along rumors. Just because they come from a CM, does not a fact make. They do know that something has changed, but, they don't really know the reason why or how much affect it will have on anything until it is fully implemented.

Different people have different experiences. Many of the gloom and doom posts are from people that think that by pointing out changes they are somehow going to change the Disney Company and kick it back into the 50's. They are so busy looking for flaws that they don't even start to see the positives. Not to mention that if at this point they admit that they were wrong initially, they would have to admit that they don't really know what they are talking about. They are practically militant about it, and will not hesitate to harass anyone that disagrees with them, by doing things like trying to make people believe that if you enjoy Disney then they are a plant. I suppose it could be said that they are a plant from Universal, but, that wouldn't be anymore truthful.

I encourage anyone to call out those that are nothing but negative and ask for proof of this massive decline and please make it more then from a minimum wage CM. Disney keeps it's actions pretty close to the vest, so it is almost impossible to get the real truth. Some guesses are correct, some aren't, but, remember that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Perhaps I'm simply on a different board, i don't know, but I don't see many people here at all who are solely negative about everything. I see many people who, bottom line, love Disney. Some may disagree or be unhappy about certain things the company does, but those reactions by and large come across to me as from a deep love of Disney. I would say the same for those who are nothing but positive about Disney as well.

 

[agavegirl1]

Just jumping into say, yes there are some people (a very few) who are "in the know" as it were. I am not one of them. However, lots of people tout Josh at Easy Walt Disney World and he has been posting some reports regarding his touring plans noting that queues are indeed at half capacity in the mornings leading to increased wait times with pictures of closed queues. So, with pictures, I have to believe that WDW is cutting staffing for this quarter which ends June 1st. He also posted restaurant and kiosk price increases with dated photos so that is not "hype". I don't think the complaints are "fake" and there are certainl historical records to indicate attendance and prices and such.

 

[Boski]

The other thing to remember about these reports is that they a) all use the same source and b) the source doesn't reveal any numbers or sources and c) he suggests where they are coming from. He doesn't know, either.

But then you also have a good number of Disney bloggers and members of this board who go to the parks often. I'm not talking about 2 or 3 times a year. I'm talking 2-3 times a week. If they are reporting Dumbo running at half capacity for the first 2 hours or Startours only using half of the theaters you have to take that into consideration.

 

[mshanson3121]

Many of the gloom and doom posts are from people that think that by pointing out changes they are somehow going to change the Disney Company and kick it back into the 50's. They are so busy looking for flaws that they don't even start to see the positives. Not to mention that if at this point they admit that they were wrong initially, they would have to admit that they don't really know what they are talking about. They are practically militant about it, and will not hesitate to harass anyone that disagrees with them, by doing things like trying to make people believe that if you enjoy Disney then they are a plant. I suppose it could be said that they are a plant from Universal, but, that wouldn't be anymore truthful.

I encourage anyone to call out those that are nothing but negative and ask for proof of this massive decline and please make it more then from a minimum wage CM. Disney keeps it's actions pretty close to the vest, so it is almost impossible to get the real truth. Some guesses are correct, some aren't, but, remember that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Maybe we're reading different posts. There is not one single person on this board that thinks they're going to change Disney and "kick it back into the 50s". And most of them are not looking for flaws - they're just outright noticing them because to most of the repeat visitors, they're glaringly obvious. Nor, in the past 6 months of change, have many (if any) people been wrong about their predictions. Most of the arguing in my opinion, seems to come from the people who refuse to admit that Disney does anything wrong.

ETA: And for the record, I agree with the OP in that the negative talk does get a bit depressing. In fact, I wish admins could create a new board just for the "venting", because I don't think it's helpful for newcomers, and I do see how it could negatively influence your trip. And I for one love Disney and hope my next trip is magical. But on the flip side, I'm under no illusions about Disney. And right now - they're either in serious trouble due to Shanghai (and other issues), or they've turned into one money-hungry, greedy giant. Neither of which bodes well.

 

[goofyernmost]

Maybe we're reading different posts. There is not one single person on this board that thinks they're going to change Disney and "kick it back into the 50s". And most of them are not looking for flaws - they're just outright noticing them because to most of the repeat visitors, they're glaringly obvious. Nor, in the past 6 months of change, have many (if any) people been wrong about their predictions. Most of the arguing in my opinion, seems to come from the people who refuse to admit that Disney does anything wrong.

I'm aware no one has said it (or at least I'll take your word for it) however, I have been hanging around the boards (more then one) long enough to know that the motivation is to let Disney know that they are not pleased with the decisions that they have been making and hoping that by being vocal enough, the will affect change or reversal of decisions. I might also add that most of the guests are not repeat visitors. Many are, but, with thousands of people going there day in and day out, it's hard to imagine that most of them have been before or at least often enough to notice any massive change for the worse. It is a small hardcore group that is constantly negative because they feel that Disney is destroying their playground. I fall into the middle group probably having been to WDW 46 times since 1983. Having never gone there until I was in my mid-thirty's, I didn't see it through kid eyes. I trust what I did see as accurate and although I have seen change, what has changed is not necessarily a negative. Some is, yes, but, not to the degree that we are made to believe.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

At one point in history I was the biggest Disney apologist on the planet.

My eyes have been opened. Wide opened.

MG

 

[mshanson3121]

I'm aware no one has said it (or at least I'll take your word for it) however, I have been hanging around the boards (more then one) long enough to know that the motivation is to let Disney know that they are not pleased with the decisions that they have been making and hoping that by being vocal enough, the will affect change or reversal of decisions. I might also add that most of the guests are not repeat visitors. Many are, but, with thousands of people going there day in and day out, it's hard to imagine that most of them have been before or at least often enough to notice any massive change for the worse. It is a small hardcore group that is constantly negative because they feel that Disney is destroying their playground. I fall into the middle group probably having been to WDW 46 times since 1983. Having never gone there until I was in my mid-thirty's, I didn't see it through kid eyes. I trust what I did see as accurate and although I have seen change, what has changed is not necessarily a negative. Some is, yes, but, not to the degree that we are made to believe.

I agree to an extent. I think some of the changes that get complained about (especially FP+) are not a negative. But, I do agree with most that the changes that have been coming in the last 6 months, all the cut backs, price increases etc... really are negative. They do nothing to enhance the guest experience, and in fact diminish it in many cases. And I do agree that the majority of visitors are first timers or infrequent. But does that really make it okay? Because they're new and won't notice, does that really excuse what Disney is doing?

 

[goofyernmost]

At one point in history I was the biggest Disney apologist on the planet.

My eyes have been opened. Wide opened.

MG

I still do not fully grasp the use of the word apologist. If I like something that isn't apologizing for it because someone else doesn't (heck, I like Stitch) but, I honestly do not know why it is considered apologizing for something that I have no control over. The closest I could come to apologizing is to say... gee, I'm sorry you don't like it, but, I see nothing wrong with it. Sorry!

 

[Ambear]

Many of the gloom and doom posts are from people that think that by pointing out changes they are somehow going to change the Disney Company and kick it back into the 50's.

I think being vocal about things customers don't like can bring about change. I agree disney hasn't had to budge much on its decisions because one time guests are still going. But disney cares about returning guests too, through dvc and sending deals and codes in emails. Besides didnt complaining bring figment back to his ride? I'm grateful for that haha.

 

[goofyernmost]

I agree to an extent. I think some of the changes that get complained about (especially FP+) are not a negative. But, I do agree with most that the changes that have been coming in the last 6 months, all the cut backs, price increases etc... really are negative. They do nothing to enhance the guest experience. And I do agree that the majority of visitors are first timers or infrequent. But does that really make it okay? Because they're new and won't notice, does that really excuse what Disney is doing?

Well, that's the thing. What makes anyone think that Disney needs an excuse for what they are doing. They are a business and they run it and it is theirs to do with as they please. The only real say we have in it is with our wallets. If we continue to give it our money then we are, in affect, saying... I agree with what you are doing, keep up the good work. If we stop giving them our money, then and only then, does the message get through that perhaps they are doing something wrong. And the big thing, and I know many will disagree, is that with the exception of a few personal likes and dislikes it is hard to tell that they are doing anything wrong.

 

[goofyernmost]

I think being vocal about things customers don't like can bring about change. I agree disney hasn't had to budge much on its decisions because one time guests are still going. But disney cares about returning guests too, through dvc and sending deals and codes in emails. Besides didnt complaining bring figment back to his ride? I'm grateful for that haha.

Not to any large degree, but, he was brought back in after Eisner told them that the new show was junk. Bringing back Figment with a different personality and without the Dreamfinder was token at best. Even DVC isn't all that telling because those people are selling their points to others so from the outside nothing really has changed from a census stand point. I don't think that Disney really cares about returning guests anymore. I know that they have basically priced me out and are unwilling to give me a break that once was attainable by non-expiring tickets, so my feeling is that they don't really care if I ever go back again. I'll live, but I don't feel very welcome anymore.

 

[Kimberly9701]

I agree to an extent. I think some of the changes that get complained about (especially FP+) are not a negative. But, I do agree with most that the changes that have been coming in the last 6 months, all the cut backs, price increases etc... really are negative. They do nothing to enhance the guest experience, and in fact diminish it in many cases. And I do agree that the majority of visitors are first timers or infrequent. But does that really make it okay? Because they're new and won't notice, does that really excuse what Disney is doing?

No one ever likes price increases. On anything!!lol. I don't know one single person, myself included, who says "omg I'm so thrilled with the fact that I have to pay more now!" Regardless of if that is for gas, flights, cable, or Disney.

But the reality is- prices do go up. With everything.

So, people have 3 choices-
1. Constantly complain about it.
2. Grumble under your breath but pay anyway.
3. Don't pay and do something else. (Again, with cable, Disney, drive instead of fly, take a bus instead of drive etc).

I've been going to Disney for 30something years. I don't think the majority of people who visit only go once in their life. I also don't think that Disney's only "frequent travelers" can be found on these boards.

I know at least 15 families who have gone this year- not one had a complaint about "reduced staffing and budget cuts"

 

[whiporee]

What is not appreciated, are posts extolling the virtues of Disney regardless of what they do or overly complimentary posts about upcharge events that take away from things that used to be included in the ever increasing general admission. Telling me I "don't have to pay to attend them" is not an answer to why Disney is taking away an opportunity to ride, M&G, see something I previously could for the price of admission.

I just want to make sure I'm reading you right. Are you saying that you don't like posts that compliment -- or overly compliment -- those things that used to be free? So if it used to be free and now it's not, you don't appreciate someone else saying they saw value in it?

Or am I misreading you?

 

[Kimberly9701]

I'll add this-

What does make these boards great is that so many of the people here are over planners and do pay so much attention to everything.

It's helped me in my over planning! I over plan everything..(although I am a recovering bento box mom )Most of my friends aren't as crazy as I am with 'trying to make everything perfect'. Even my family thinks I may have a screw loose for extending one day just to get the view that I wanted (wasn't available for 3 nights).

It's ok to be an over planner. But at some point you just have to realize that some things you just can't control (i.e. Price increases and finding time to make the perfect star shaped fruit and cute dolphin cut sandwich to put in a bento box lol)

 

[Ambear]

Bringing back Figment with a different personality and without the Dreamfinder was token at best.

I always worry figment won't even be there the next time I go back... I buy up all his merch in a pathetic attempt to make him seem profitable haha...

Even DVC isn't all that telling because those people are selling their points to others so from the outside nothing really has changed from a census stand point.

Good point, I didn't think about people selling their points.

 

[mshanson3121]

No one ever likes price increases. On anything!!lol. I don't know one single person, myself included, who says "omg I'm so thrilled with the fact that I have to pay more now!" Regardless of if that is for gas, flights, cable, or Disney.

But the reality is- prices do go up. With everything.

So, people have 3 choices-
1. Constantly complain about it.
2. Grumble under your breath but pay anyway.
3. Don't pay and do something else. (Again, with cable, Disney, drive instead of fly, take a bus instead of drive etc).

I've been going to Disney for 30something years. I don't think the majority of people who visit only go once in their life. I also don't think that Disney's only "frequent travelers" can be found on these boards.

I know at least 15 families who have gone this year- not one had a complaint about "reduced staffing and budget cuts"

Prices go up. Yup. But we all know that the main reason people are complaining is because of the cuts that are being made WITH the price increases. And I too know people that have gone recently. And they had complaints. That were directly related to the cuts. The difference is, since they're not on these boards, they didn't know the why behind the complaints. (Ex. long wait times while seeing the ride running at only half capacity. They knew it sucked. They didn't know it was due to budget/staffing cuts).

 

[serenitynow]

Maybe we're reading different posts. There is not one single person on this board that thinks they're going to change Disney and "kick it back into the 50s". And most of them are not looking for flaws - they're just outright noticing them because to most of the repeat visitors, they're glaringly obvious. Nor, in the past 6 months of change, have many (if any) people been wrong about their predictions. Most of the arguing in my opinion, seems to come from the people who refuse to admit that Disney does anything wrong.

ETA: And for the record, I agree with the OP in that the negative talk does get a bit depressing. In fact, I wish admins could create a new board just for the "venting", because I don't think it's helpful for newcomers, and I do see how it could negatively influence your trip. And I for one love Disney and hope my next trip is magical. But on the flip side, I'm under no illusions about Disney. And right now - they're either in serious trouble due to Shanghai (and other issues), or they've turned into one money-hungry, greedy giant. Neither of which bodes well.

I think a "venting" board would be a great idea. Those who feel the need to vent would have a place to register their dissatisfactions with others who likewise feel the need to vent.

 

[Ambear]

i.e. Price increases and finding time to make the perfect star shaped fruit and cute dolphin cut sandwich to put in a bento box lol)

Try this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002ZG53R2/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_Yp-lxbA8AD23T

Always looked fun to make.