Why AP holders get discounts at Downtown Disney and not DVC members

[Chuck S]

Regarding those "Free" passes for those of us that purchased in the early years...

It was a sales incentive to purchase DVC, remember back then, most timeshares were considered "risky". In fact, OKW, then known as "The Disney Vacation Club Resort" (and still known as that on legal paperwork) was the only resort. NO guarantees were made of any other DVC resorts being built, and in fact, many more were planned off-site. It was a grand experiment that Disney was asking us to plunk money into...no guarantee that OKW would remain a "Disney" operated resort, in fact, since only Phase I of OKW was complete, there were no guarantees of the resort even being finished, much like what actually happened at VB. There were no "Magical Beginnings" options, no option to apply the cost of your current Disney hotel room to your purchase price, no guarantees that the resort wouldn't be under the operation of Marriott or another company. The Free Passes were the incentive, a way for early members to justify the risk vs. cost.

Now that DVC has a history and has been popular as far as sales, the "free pass" incentive is no longer needed to boost sales. Oh, and those "free passes" were never really "free" from Disney, they were actually paid from the developers advertising budget, they were not provided out of the goodness of WDW's heart.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by MisterDisney
I'll say it again, Disney has DVC members already committed for the next 40 years +. I dont know of many other businesses whether it be airlines, lawnmower sales, or whatever other businesses you reference which have that kind of committment from the customer that give big perks.

Also, to another poster, all you have to do is read these boards and then decide how many people consider their investment/purchase a great deal ...


And to another poster, "how much does Disney value their customers?", you must reverse this question and honestly ask yourselves "how much do their customers value DIsney"? The answer is quite compelling. For many of the customers, Disney is the only place that gives them the specific product that they want (not many here seem to view US, IOA, SeaWorld as a VIABLE alternative). NOt many businesses can get away with this philosophy, but apparently where DVC members are concerned they can given the demand for their product at this time.

Interesting topic, I suppose we must agree to disagree.

I'm not sure we're disagreeing to be honest, I see no entitlement. But I still think it's in Disney's best interest in the long run to offer the minor discounts given to FL residents. And while DVC members are committed to the resorts, or someone else in their place, they are not committed to where and how they spend the rest of their money. Sales, park passes, restaurants, etc are likely bigger expenses over time that the lodging. But it's no skin off my nose as I am a FL resident.

 

[milachy]

Originally posted by milachy
I found it interesting that AP holders get discounts shopping at downtown disney and not DVC members..

Anyone know why?

And to think all of this started with the above listed simple question...

thanks to all for yor replies..

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Ok say a 10% discount on PH's or AP's average saving pp is about $50. Getting that family spending $$ in the parks again within a year just because they bought a discounted AP or have extra PH days would equal way more than the $50 pp they discounted.

I can also use my photography business experince as an example. Free 8x10 for coming in. Now your are under no obligation to buy more than the free pic but at least 80% of the people that use those certificates spend $$ on the precious portraits of junior. Maybe 50% were coming in anyway but the added sales from those who came in because they received the coupon far makes up for the "costs" of the "freebie"

How many people would be lured back from going elsewhere (like US or an offsite restaurant) if they had a "special discount"?

 

[CVW]

Originally posted by 3DisneyNUTS
How many people would be lured back from going elsewhere (like US or an offsite restaurant) if they had a "special discount"?

To be honest, I don't think they would lure me away from USF with a simple discount. If they want to lure me away from USF they should BUILD MORE ATTRACTIONS!

I would take more and better attractions any day over a deep discount. This is actually a big topic of interest on "Fastpass" discussion threads over on the theme park boards. (Some people eloquently argue that "Fastpass" should be done away with, as it gives Disney an excuse to not build more attractions. That is, if there were truly enough attractions for all the guests to enjoy, there would be no lines.)

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by 3DisneyNUTS
How many people would be lured back from going elsewhere (like US or an offsite restaurant) if they had a "special discount"?

Well, gee whiz, if it works in the photographic industry then it MUST work in the theme park industry, right?

Personally, I don't know a darn thing about the theme park industry. But I do know two things about Disney:

1. They have 30 years worth of sales data for Walt Disney World and 50 years worth at Disneyland. Over the years they have eliminated things like the free park passes for DVC members (admittedly a sales incentive), the Magic Kingdom Club and the Disney Club. Yet they seem to be satisfied with the financial impact of these decisions.

2. Whenever Disney can spend a dime to earn a quarter, THEY DO IT.

Giving a $50 discount per AP has a staggering impact on the bottom line. Yes, perhaps it will increase sales of APs. However, it also means that Disney will earn $50 LESS on every person that intended on buying an AP with or without a discount. And the new APs sold generate less revenue than an AP sold at normal prices.

To claim that all of the lost revenues on APs will somehow be recouped via the good will exhibited by those who will spend extra on dining or souvenirs is a flawed argument.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Originally posted by tjkraz
Well, gee whiz, if it works in the photographic industry then it MUST work in the theme park industry, right?

Personally, I don't know a darn thing about the theme park industry. But I do know two things about Disney:

1. They have 30 years worth of sales data for Walt Disney World and 50 years worth at Disneyland. Over the years they have eliminated things like the free park passes for DVC members (admittedly a sales incentive), the Magic Kingdom Club and the Disney Club. Yet they seem to be satisfied with the financial impact of these decisions.

2. Whenever Disney can spend a dime to earn a quarter, THEY DO IT.

Giving a $50 discount per AP has a staggering impact on the bottom line. Yes, perhaps it will increase sales of APs. However, it also means that Disney will earn $50 LESS on every person that intended on buying an AP with or without a discount. And the new APs sold generate less revenue than an AP sold at normal prices.

To claim that all of the lost revenues on APs will somehow be recouped via the good will exhibited by those who will spend extra on dining or souvenirs is a flawed argument.

Whats with the sarcasm? Starting your "arguement" off like that makes me not even want to respond to you tjkraz. Good grief!

 

[Bella2000]

Originally posted by tjkraz
Well, gee whiz, if it works in the photographic industry then it MUST work in the theme park industry, right?

Personally, I don't know a darn thing about the theme park industry. But I do know two things about Disney:

1. They have 30 years worth of sales data for Walt Disney World and 50 years worth at Disneyland. Over the years they have eliminated things like the free park passes for DVC members (admittedly a sales incentive), the Magic Kingdom Club and the Disney Club. Yet they seem to be satisfied with the financial impact of these decisions.

2. Whenever Disney can spend a dime to earn a quarter, THEY DO IT.

Giving a $50 discount per AP has a staggering impact on the bottom line. Yes, perhaps it will increase sales of APs. However, it also means that Disney will earn $50 LESS on every person that intended on buying an AP with or without a discount. And the new APs sold generate less revenue than an AP sold at normal prices.

To claim that all of the lost revenues on APs will somehow be recouped via the good will exhibited by those who will spend extra on dining or souvenirs is a flawed argument.

So basically Disney is greedy and they on one hand talk about the values and family memories and Walt's dream etc. but bottom line is they want my money. Shocking! I appreciate the "it's a business comments" but from a business perspective if they took off their "it's always done this way" hat and look at those "captive" players they may actually find there are other marketing strategies that may work. Disney management is fundamentally autocratic - come on what company has such a high % of no confidence votes and survives by ignoring it. That is arrogant of course but incredibly ballsy (can I say that?). I find that just amazing. I'm in awe about that still. I honestly don't think that anyone has looked at the DVC and any financial wins for WDW because it's a separate business unit. Perhaps DVC didn't have a "player" at the table for negotiations. Perhaps no one brought up other strategies 'cause they were getting in so much money hand over fist with new purchases. But as any business is aware it's wiser to have a long term plan. The one thing in the "it's a business" equation that no one has mentioned is the Disney factor. It's not just a "time share" because they used Disney to sell it. Right or wrong with the Disney name comes all of those high expectations. They know this is the case they make lots of money selling that case. My questions and observations are typically towards that end.

They feel that DVC members love all things Disney and they don't need to be courted. I don't think it's a case of money I truly don't. I think that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Fundamentally I like my DVC. I'm not planning on selling it any time soon. However a good will gesture goes a long way toward appreciation - appreciation brings gratitude which translates into money. It's the psychology of it all. I am not suggesting that DVC members will go running for their check books however they will be more likely or more favorable to consider something in the future. Now that is true marketing. Disney is a pretty lazy marketer in my opinion. It would be smart marketing to offer a discount to DVC simply because of the cheerleader factor and marketing to a proven audience would bring faster bucks. Very short sighted in their part. Who sells DVC better than existing members. Who sells Disney more than folks who go to Disney often. Man, if I got a dime for every person I've "disneyfied" I'd be loaded. That good will gesture as Dean I think pointed out becomes additional faith in the system. It's not very political of them and frankly they are missing good opportunities IMO.

Writing to DVC AND WDW mgmt about displeasure brings issues to the forefront. I was upset to lose Magic Kingdom card and then the pitiful replacement Disney Club and now nothing (I don't consider the credit card a benefit). Although I wrote a letter and gnashed my teeth Disney blew me off. No surprise I didn't directly effect their pocketbook or rather the pocket book that they were following. Now with Surprise Mornings that terribly lame replacement for Early Entry - I wrote a letter but this time volume and being hurt in the pocket by people staying off property made them reinstate EE. What am I getting at? Well unless DVC owners speak up or identify what they will or will not accept UNLESS the new DVC mgmt is strong - change won't occur. I don't fault mgmt for thinking "Oh we were hurt hard by the hurricane season we are going to take a big hit labor day next year - what can we do - hmmm let's offer it to the DVC members..for MORE." The market will bear what people will pay. Is that legal - absolutely, is it ethical - I guess it's your opinion (I don't think so but then I'm not going). Again, they feel that DVC members love all things Disney and they don't need to be courted.

p.s. When I read that ABC folk got discounts or freebies I thought heck that failing business unit - send those our way and then I thought - oh is it identified as the "tv" unit in which case that would include ESPN a big money maker. Can't take their perks away.

 

[DrTomorrow]

Originally posted by Bella2000
[...] Disney is a pretty lazy marketer in my opinion. It would be smart marketing to offer a discount to DVC simply because of the cheerleader factor and marketing to a proven audience would bring faster bucks. Very short sighted in their part. Who sells DVC better than existing members. Who sells Disney more than folks who go to Disney often. Man, if I got a dime for every person I've "disneyfied" I'd be loaded. That good will gesture as Dean I think pointed out becomes additional faith in the system. It's not very political of them and frankly they are missing good opportunities IMO. Disney - a lazy marketer? With all due respect, this has to be the most humorous comment I've heard in this discussion (well, CVW is pretty funny, too.) Disney has dozens of marketing programs going on all the time. Commercials, newspaper ads and articles, on-line deals, post cards targeting existing guests, AP discounts, FL discounts - and I'm certain there are a lot more. But just because they don't target DVC doesn't make them lazy. And again, I have to fall back on a simple statement - people who have bought into DVC already have faith in the DVC system - are you claiming you'd work even harder and "sell" even more points if you got a $50 discount?

[...] What am I getting at? Well unless DVC owners speak up or identify what they will or will not accept UNLESS the new DVC mgmt is strong - change won't occur. Hmmmm, a collective action against DVC/Disney. "Carmine, I don't think it's right for you to extort money from the University". [Animal House]

[...] The market will bear what people will pay. Is that legal - absolutely, is it ethical - I guess it's your opinion (I don't think so but then I'm not going).Charging people for what they're willing to pay is unethical? My my my....

We bought into DVC to obtain lodging - as long as DVC abides by the terms we signed, I'm satisfied.

 

[Sammie]

Originally posted by DrTomorrow
We bought into DVC to obtain lodging - as long as DVC abides by the terms we signed, I'm satisfied.

Again I agree with Dr. T. I don't think you can sway Disney after you have given them what they want, your money for your DVC contract. If you truely need and want these discounts, negotiations will have to been done before the exchange of money not after. I don't think they are listening after that.

Disney is in the business of "selling" a product that makes one "feel good". They are not in the business of "giving" away a product that makes one feel good.

As long as DVC is selling their product as is, without the wanted discounts I see no reason for Disney to change their sales plan.

I am not saying I would not welcome any additional discount, I just do not see any reason to expect them.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

Bella2000 You go girl!!!



Thank you for your very thoughtful and insightful post. You brought up a lot of excellent points. I always encourage people to contact DVC with their opinions on the overall DVC program. Members who are modestly disappointed often skip sending their comments. DVC needs to receive more feedback than what they recieve from the "converted".

Disney has never really tested the "discount waters", at least for DVCers. No one really knows the level of success the program may have. A financial disaster is unlikely.

Disney/DVC will continue the cash cow treatment until the cows moo loud enough, or just they stray to other pastures.