Who's booking for 2021?

[Raya]

We very much want to book the Egypt itinerary, but reading the travel changes thread is scary. I always trusted Disney to do the right thing and keep me safe. Now, in an emergency they're either silent or worse speaking only at the very last minute. I came on here hoping to get news that would make me feel better about booking in May but....nothing yet.

 

[Rapunzellover]

I understand your point. Static pricing decreases the pressure on purchasing early. This is one of the reasons they’ll never do it. Same with just about all major travel companies with significant volume. If they offered a static price it would very well be at a higher price than you can buy on opening day. No way Disney is going to lower their overall revenue on a given trip. If you want to purchase at a lower price and don’t mind booking a year ahead, dynamic pricing is the way to go. If you want to book later, don’t want to spend more than another guest, and don’t mind spending a little more than the current opening day price then static pricing would be best. I understand that people may have clear preferences. I just disagree that it necessitates blame as if they’re doing something wrong or that it amounts to greed. It’s just a business model and one that’s more common than not in travel. Everyone should vote with their dollars.

I do find think it’s interesting that this complaint is coming up now. Not a common complaint from what I can remember with ABD even a few months ago. But it’s a different world for sure and people may not be willing to make plans so far in advance given the unknowns. I suspect this is temporary while there are still unknowns. I’d predict 2 yrs from now, once a vaccine is here, people will largely be back on this forum planning and booking 12-18 months in advance as they have for years.

BTW, under the recent CARES act (and likely any Phase IV stimulus) companies of Disney’s size aren’t given grants, they’re given loans with interest. Not sure that makes it any less tasteful, but they will have to pay it back. And if such a stimulus saves people’s jobs, it’s a good thing.

You don't need to lower overall revenue while doing static pricing. Not if you give each travel date a different static price. And if a company with Tauck's volume of customers can do it, so can ABD. Just sayin'.

Maybe it's the anti-capitalist in me, but I have problem with saying there should be no blame and it's not greed just because it's a business model many use. I don't necessarily blame ABD for mimicking others in the industry, but the system is set up to put profit over consumers. The business model is set up to screw customers. Sure, we can just say, "well that's business" but it's very hard to do that when there are other models (in travel, like Tauck, ABD's competitor) where the consumer isn't so screwed over, and profits still accrue. And I blame ABD and Disney for choosing that model, as it's absolutely not in Walt's spirit.

But it's true people have different preferences, and we should all vote with our dollars. And you're probably right that things will eventually go back to normal.

And dynamic pricing has always been a complaint re: ABD, afaik. But maybe you mean booking in advance? That's certainly not been a huge issue, but the PIF dates being so early and cancellation policies have been widely criticized. This is bringing to a head a lot of longstanding gripes people have had.

Thanks, BTW, for the CARES act info. Good to know, and certainly I hope the stimulus saves jobs. I won't mind money going to helping others. I just hope greed doesn't prevent that.

 

[tgeorge]

I had a Rhône cruise planned for July 2020 with my Mom. Unfortunately, prior to our PIF date, my Mom could no longer go, so I moved the $1100 deposit to the same cruise in October 2021 For my husband and I. Since it wasn’t a new booking, we didn’t qualify for the $750 per person early booking fee. If you’re following you may have discovered what I quickly did, I could keep the deposit and pay more money or just re-book it as a new booking and save $1500. It was actually $400 cheaper for me to have them take my deposit.

I will say that while I’m normally one to plan way in advance, this has given me something to think about for future trips.

Now my husband refuses to travel before a COVID vaccine, which I understand, so that October 2021 trip may not happen.

 

[DCPhotoGal]

I am interested to see what the 2021 trips look like when they come out. We had our March Italy trip cancelled--it was one of the first to be cancelled and we got a full refund for the trip. I also have a July trip to Iceland booked. I am still hoping we can go. Looks like Iceland is managing the crisis well with a ton of testing, and my family is all under 50 and generally healthy, so I'm not feeling like we need to be more cautious that whatever government restrictions are in place by then. A bigger concern is that my husband washed and dried his passport and hasn't been able to get an appointment to get a new one. I would like to reschedule our March Italy trip to next spring break, if the dates match with school break for the kids.

 

[BluesTraveler]

I just disagree that it necessitates blame as if they’re doing something wrong or that it amounts to greed. It’s just a business model and one that’s more common than not in travel. Everyone should vote with their dollars.

I agree with you and I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought ABD was to 'blame' - it's just a format that wasn't a good fit for us and was already a disincentive for us to travel with ABD again.

One interesting tension from a corporate culture standpoint, though, is that so many people who travel with ABD have a strong emotional attachment to Disney and the brand, and I've heard/read people say they travel with Disney because they feel 'taken care of.' And yet, as you note, it's just a business model. So how does Disney preserve that emotional attachment while it makes these "it's just business" decision? I'm fascinated to watch how it plays out.

 

[Grifdog22]

Dynamic pricing.
I appreciate the postings on this, with many people having well-grounded and clear positions on the point. Perhaps just because I'm sick of being quarantined at work I thought I would add some additional points to consider:

1. Dynamic pricing provides an economic incentive to help insure a trip may not be cancelled from too few people booking a certain date. Some families are date driven and will book regardless of pricing for their chosen dates. Others are more economically driven and if three different dates suit for the same trip, they will choose the lower cost. This drives these guests from the most popular date to a trip with less people, and may add enough people to ensure it hits a minimum number of guests to travel.

2. Except for extremely popular trips like Egypt, Japan and Iceland that fill on opening day, dynamic pricing also flattens disparity in the size of groups. I think we all prefer these trips when they are not maxed out on guests. Dynamic pricing helps guide economically driven people in their choices, so that less trips are filled to their maximum and trips overall are more balanced.

3. Dynamic pricing gives the company a sense of where the economic margins are - where is the pricing line for a particular trip or trip destination so they can better offer numbers and trips that suit and sell. The Egypt trips sold out regardless of cost. They added more - at a higher price point. Other trips didn't sell at their price points and some were cancelled, some limited their dates, and some disappeared forever (the Florida DisneyWorld/Kennedy Space Center trip comes to mind). Dynamic pricing gives a business sense to tell planners what sells well at what price point for future planning.

4. Dynamic pricing works the same way at the parks. How much more are you willing to pay for something you want now, rather than planned for? Our society changed - when I grew up I had to think about what song I liked, bike or drive to the music store and fork over money for a song, and usually one on the back I didn't want. iTunes brought instant gratification - click a button and own the song. No contemplative effort required. Amazon thrives today because people want it now, without having to do much advance planning or go to a store to find it. I've always been surprised - the identical towels I bought at JCP my daughter bought at "a great savings" of $6.75 more for each through Amazon. Hmm.

5. Dynamic pricing IS a discount for early buyers - you are giving up some money a year early - but usually for a hefty discount off the later higher prices. How important that discount is to each person is demonstrated by how much advance planning and time they are willing to share on opening day. We see the same thing on "black friday" discounts - a limited number of discounts with people who know they want something and are willing to stand in line for hours to get it at that discounted price. They can buy it later, without the hassle, at a higher price. It is a common practice that brings in the business. Grocery stores offer loss leaders - sell something at a loss so they can get the shopper in the door who usually then buys plenty of other things to balance out the purchase.

Feel free to throw stones (please no tar and feather) if you disagree, but I believe dynamic pricing actually serves not only the seller such as ABD but also the majority of the purchasers.

Now, back to work. Stay safe, and remember, all of this is a first world problem. My father's parents never travelled more than 50 miles from their home. We are blessed to have these opportunities and choices.

 

[laceltris3]

I noticed something when I worked with Tauck for our Ireland trip. We were booking about a year in advance, and there were trips scheduled for every other week for the entire summer. I was looking at a specific date that worked best for us, and then I dawdled, and the trip I wanted filled up. But as that happened, they opened up the trips in the "missing" weeks, and eventually every week for the whole summer was booked up or had limited availability. Keep in mind that you, if you are really interested in a specific date, can to call and place a deposit before the trip is priced, and once it is priced, like 15 months out, you can get your deposit back if you don't like it.

So you can get the date you want, at the best price available, without hours on hold or the crush of opening day. It also lets you book specific suites for river cruises early if that's your thing. There are also ways to manage trip scheduling from their side that ABD chooses not to utilize. Yeah, they added trips for Japan and Egypt, but not in a systematic fashion. Does anyone else remember the ill-fated Disney World BSM that they put out like 20 dates for and then cancelled the entire trip? Cancelling trips that Disney overprices or gives too many dates for doesn't help anyone who wanted to go on the trip. (Also keep in mind Disney combines it's dynamic pricing with the frustration of almost never guaranteeing when a trip will go, whereas perhaps more people *would* have signed up if it were listed at the day 1 price.) And I most certainly prefer receiving the free pre or post night for my loyalty rather than the reward of stressing about early booking discounts.

But maybe that's just me.

 

[WishUponAStarryNight]

Well, we ended up booking the Danube cruise and Budapest escape for 2021 after our June trip was canceled. I was really torn, but in the end, decided to do it. I also put down a deposit on a Tauck Bridges trip to Italy for next year. I’m hoping both will go and I’ll be able to compare ABD and Tauck (first trips with both), though I know the escape vs cruise vs land trip will have inherent differences that will make an apples to apples comparison impossible. Trying to stay hopeful that travel will get back to normal in the not so distant future!

 

[teruterubouzu]

I started reading this part of the dis because I was interested in booking Backstage Magic or the Southern California Escape for a milestone birthday. I'm going to be honest -- part of what has held me back is having to book so far in advance. That just isn't my style. I've also been following the issues people have had with ABD's early final payments and then late cancellations and it seems too risky for me. I will probably wait and see and if that means I miss out, I'll just travel another way.

 

[CaliAdventurer]

Just wanted to see how many of us out there think:
1. ABD will release any new itineraries next month at all?
2. How many will book something if new dates/trips are announced?

I have a river cruise on hold for this December which I'm going to try and move to something else next year in all likelihood. Not feeling Europe for the rest of this year, especially in the winter.

It will be interesting to see how ABD acts next month in light of the massive lost revenue and presumably bad press they've had in this crisis.

We’re booked for Xmas Danube Cruise. I’m trying to choose between moving it to next Dec or changing to Xmas in Wyoming. You can only change once so it’s difficult. I think I’m leaning for something domestic and nowhere crowded.

 

[Jess_S]

We’re booked for Xmas Danube Cruise. I’m trying to choose between moving it to next Dec or changing to Xmas in Wyoming. You can only change once so it’s difficult. I think I’m leaning for something domestic and nowhere crowded.

If you are considering the Winter in Wyoming trip, you should keep an eye announcements from Xanterra, which operates lodges in Yellowstone. (I saw that the winter trip stays in Snow Lodge, inside the park). We were booked to go to Yellowstone this August. I figured late summer in the US was the safest possible vacation plan -- even though I understood it might not happen. We received an email this week cancelling our reservations because the are not going to open any of the lodges in Yellowstone at all this summer. (Cabins and campgrounds are going to be open). I later received another email backpedaling and saying that if we wanted to hold the reservation, maybe they would be able to open some of the lodges in the summer.

No word on winter yet, but it certainly looks possible that the Yellowstone lodges may not open at all in 2020. Sorry to be a downer; I was very shocked that they were making decisions about the whole summer season so early. I was fully expecting to make the call on whether to go myself sometime in July.

 

[Rapunzellover]

We were booked to go to Yellowstone this August. I figured late summer in the US was the safest possible vacation plan -- even though I understood it might not happen.

No word on winter yet, but it certainly looks possible that the Yellowstone lodges may not open at all in 2020. Sorry to be a downer; I was very shocked that they were making decisions about the whole summer season so early. I was fully expecting to make the call on whether to go myself sometime in July.

I also hate to be a downer, but it's time to give up on thinking any vacay is gonna be feasible until at least Sept or Oct. They will probably not be feasible at all this year.

Impatience with lockdowns and easing of them means in about 4- 6 weeks, there will be massive spikes in infections. It will take more lockdowns, of a more serious type, to stop the spread. Who knows if those lockdowns will even happen? But it will be another 4-6 weeks after these spikes to possibly go back to normal. That would mean August, earliest for any real, safe contemplation of normal.

I'm not at all surprised the lodges are just staying shut. Staying open will probably cost more, as travel's become an afterthought for most.

And while I get feeling more comfortable with domestic trips just in case of problems, let's get over the US being safer than othrer countries with respect to this virus. We are the epicenter of this now. And other countries probably won't want us anyhow for a while cause we're so behind in dealing with this.

 

[Jess_S]

I also hate to be a downer, but it's time to give up on thinking any vacay is gonna be feasible until at least Sept or Oct. They will probably not be feasible at all this year.

Impatience with lockdowns and easing of them means in about 4- 6 weeks, there will be massive spikes in infections. It will take more lockdowns, of a more serious type, to stop the spread. Who knows if those lockdowns will even happen? But it will be another 4-6 weeks after these spikes to possibly go back to normal. That would mean August, earliest for any real, safe contemplation of normal.

I'm not at all surprised the lodges are just staying shut. Staying open will probably cost more, as travel's become an afterthought for most.

And while I get feeling more comfortable with domestic trips just in case of problems, let's get over the US being safer than othrer countries with respect to this virus. We are the epicenter of this now. And other countries probably won't want us anyhow for a while cause we're so behind in dealing with this.

I am not sure if you were responding to me directly or speaking more generally. But when I said safer, I was thinking in terms of not having to cancel due to travel restrictions -- not in terms of health risk. I am kind of anticipating that as other countries lift their restrictions on all travel, they may impose bans on American travelers the way they did initially with other hard hit countries. Travelling within the continental US also doesn't pose a risk of being stranded somewhere like international travel does. In a worst case scenario, you can rent a car and take a really long drive.

The decision not to open the lodges at Yellowstone was based upon the fact that a hotel involves people congregating in public spaces in a way that camping and cabin stays do not. They are also not planning to do any sit down food service -- just a limited number of to-go options.

 

[sayhello]

If you are considering the Winter in Wyoming trip, you should keep an eye announcements from Xanterra, which operates lodges in Yellowstone. (I saw that the winter trip stays in Snow Lodge, inside the park). We were booked to go to Yellowstone this August. I figured late summer in the US was the safest possible vacation plan -- even though I understood it might not happen. We received an email this week cancelling our reservations because the are not going to open any of the lodges in Yellowstone at all this summer. (Cabins and campgrounds are going to be open). I later received another email backpedaling and saying that if we wanted to hold the reservation, maybe they would be able to open some of the lodges in the summer.

No word on winter yet, but it certainly looks possible that the Yellowstone lodges may not open at all in 2020. Sorry to be a downer; I was very shocked that they were making decisions about the whole summer season so early. I was fully expecting to make the call on whether to go myself sometime in July.

I believe that most of the staff for the National Parks Lodges are seasonal. If it looks like there will be no travel there in June, possibly not July, they are likely not going to want, or maybe even be able, to hire folks just for the month of August. They probably had to make a choice *not* to hire the seasonal folks for this summer, period.

I also hate to be a downer, but it's time to give up on thinking any vacay is gonna be feasible until at least Sept or Oct. They will probably not be feasible at all this year.

Impatience with lockdowns and easing of them means in about 4- 6 weeks, there will be massive spikes in infections. It will take more lockdowns, of a more serious type, to stop the spread. Who knows if those lockdowns will even happen? But it will be another 4-6 weeks after these spikes to possibly go back to normal. That would mean August, earliest for any real, safe contemplation of normal.

I'm not at all surprised the lodges are just staying shut. Staying open will probably cost more, as travel's become an afterthought for most.

And while I get feeling more comfortable with domestic trips just in case of problems, let's get over the US being safer than othrer countries with respect to this virus. We are the epicenter of this now. And other countries probably won't want us anyhow for a while cause we're so behind in dealing with this.

I unfortunately totally agree with this. Especially the part about people from the US being persona non grata for quite a while.

I am not sure if you were responding to me directly or speaking more generally. But when I said safer, I was thinking in terms of not having to cancel due to travel restrictions -- not in terms of health risk. I am kind of anticipating that as other countries lift their restrictions on all travel, they may impose bans on American travelers the way they did initially with other hard hit countries. Travelling within the continental US also doesn't pose a risk of being stranded somewhere like international travel does. In a worst case scenario, you can rent a car and take a really long drive.

The decision not to open the lodges at Yellowstone was based upon the fact that a hotel involves people congregating in public spaces in a way that camping and cabin stays do not. They are also not planning to do any sit down food service -- just a limited number of to-go options.

Actually, a lot of states, like Ohio, New York and Hawaii, say if you enter the state from another state, you have to self-quarantine for 14 days. So you'd have to arrive 2 weeks ahead of your trip if those are still in place. And driving through states might be an issue, too. You can't necessarily just "stop overnight" at a hotel.

Sayhello

 

[Rapunzellover]

I am not sure if you were responding to me directly or speaking more generally. But when I said safer, I was thinking in terms of not having to cancel due to travel restrictions -- not in terms of health risk. I am kind of anticipating that as other countries lift their restrictions on all travel, they may impose bans on American travelers the way they did initially with other hard hit countries. Travelling within the continental US also doesn't pose a risk of being stranded somewhere like international travel does. In a worst case scenario, you can rent a car and take a really long drive.

I was speaking more generally. As I said, I get being more comfortable with domestic travel. It is certainly smarter to risk illness at home than abroad. But sayhello makes some good points about some risks... I'd add to what she said by noting that depending on where you are, you may not find good care in the States. If you're driving through small towns, there may be no hospital. Or we may eventually come to certain hospitals closing doors to COVID-19 patients, so non related medical treatments can be performed more safely. There's a lot of possible problems to consider.

I too am anticipating bans, but hoping that maybe other countries can get around this by having travelers get frequent tests and medically supervised and signed off papers testifying to health before leaving the country. But given how germy airplanes are, that's probably not feasible.

The whole thing is just devastating to us travel addicts.

 

[Jess_S]

The whole thing is just devastating to us travel addicts.

A million times yes. My go-to methods of relaxation are watching travel shows, reading travel magazines and visiting travel websites. And I have found that not being able to actually travel anywhere has sucked all the relaxation out of those things. I also turned my poor 7 year old into a travel addict and he is more upset about not getting to go on vacation than he is about not seeing his friends. There were tears. (Mostly my tears, but he cried a little bit too).

 

[AquaDame]

I believe that most of the staff for the National Parks Lodges are seasonal. If it looks like there will be no travel there in June, possibly not July, they are likely not going to want, or maybe even be able, to hire folks just for the month of August. They probably had to make a choice *not* to hire the seasonal folks for this summer, period.
I unfortunately totally agree with this. Especially the part about people from the US being persona non grata for quite a while.
Actually, a lot of states, like Ohio, New York and Hawaii, say if you enter the state from another state, you have to self-quarantine for 14 days. So you'd have to arrive 2 weeks ahead of your trip if those are still in place. And driving through states might be an issue, too. You can't necessarily just "stop overnight" at a hotel.

Sayhello

FWIW the MIL of one of my friends has been hired to work at Yellowstone Park starting in early May. She mentioned it because she'll be staying with them briefly on her way through.

 

[Cousin Orville]

We had our Egypt ABD cancelled along with a couple of non-ABD trips. We've rebooked many of them for next year. Had a trip to Peru/Bolivia in March. That's now rescheduled for next March. And we're in the process of rescheduling our Egypt ABD. We also added the New Zealand Dec trip. NZ has been on our list for a few years, and that combined with the refundable deposit made us pull the trigger on it.

As far as this summer, I think most international travel is off the table for us. I've canceled a trip in August that was just too remote to risk any issues coming up and rescheduled it for next year. We have a Rhone cruise in Sept with ABD. We'll see. At this point, I'm hopeful it will go. And we have a few WDW trips planned. Just taking them one trip at a time, but yeah it's been devastating for us travel addicts. I agree with that completely.

 

[aggiedog]

I've got a trip planned for Glacier NP in July and have been watching the Xanterra lodging announcements closely as they also run Glacier's in park lodging. They have also canceled all boat trips at GNP and bus sight seeing trips at Yellowstone. I agree part is the gathering of people. Also, some lodging had shared restrooms which goes back to gathering. The hiring is a big issue, also, for short term seasonal workers. Particularly GNP, the season is very short. Nothing is opening until mid-June as it is, and I think there's a good chance if it gets pushed back much, it will effectively cancel the entire season.

Out of park lodging may have better luck, but who knows?

 

[*WDW*Groupie*]

I am not 100% comfortable booking any travel for 2021 yet. I still have a few days before the ABD window opens and I am toying with the idea of booking the NZ trip.