Who'll stand with me...outside the DVC 'member' lounge?

[pangyal]

DVD... Must know I am causing waves... They have now asked me to sign an addendum agrreing to their changes....
Which I said I will not. Let's see if they send the contract back.

I am really curious about this addendum. Was it from Disney or the broker? Has anyone else received one?

 

[Lyn-CA]

And here I was thinking my strongly worded letter on DVCs Facebook page made a difference . They left it up for a whole two hours!

Oh but it was

 

[suebeelin]

I was in shock by all this-- completely disappointed and disgusted that DVD would be so unfeeling and uncaring towards those who happened to be in limbo so they weren't "pre 4.4.16 closed contracts".

It seemed petty and mean spirited, nothing at all like a company that valued customer service or repeat customers. There couldn't have been THAT MANY contracts in the queue for it to really make any financial impact.

It spoke volumes on how they see their dvc members, and how they will treat us going forward. No warning at all. No heads up. Nothing.

With this bad taste in my mouth, I was ready to chuck my dvc in the toilet, after planning out a financially prudent exit strategy, of course.

I'm glad they did the right thing, but they should have done the right thing FROM THE GETGO. So forgive me if I've just lost more pixie dust from my eyes.

Forgive me if I cringe as my 2yr old happily sings "Mickey mouse clubhouse, come inside, come inside", wishing he didn't seem so enchanted by the mouse.

I think members are going to take a much harder look at the value of their dvc, emotionally and otherwise, going forward.

I'm so glad so many current members cried foul, and they listened.

I'm going to make a phone call tomorrow telling them they did the right thing, and that this is what they should have done from the getgo. I hope other members join me in the chorus.

 

[ScubaCat]

You did. I remember. Now, and should I call you Miss Cleo, do you have the 6 numbers for the next lotto drawing?

Maybe Mr. Cleo, but I'll have to think about that a bit more.

Perhaps I'll dress up as Robin Hood and steal snacks and beverages from the Epcot lounge and deliver them to the protesters outside who were denied DVC perks. Hopefully Ken Pet Rock won't find out...

 

[Sammie]

You know honestly we are not even sure they have changed anything. Maybe this was the plan from the beginning and many including brokers over reacted and due to social media and emails flying back and forth it all got confused.

And truthfully, I don't think DVC or Disney changed. Some of you have just now seen behind the curtain. It has always been that way even when Walt was alive. It was just not as obvious without social media to constantly put them under a microscope.

If you think Walt wasn't a tough businessman, watch the documentary on him and the Animation Strike of 1941.

 

[jedcaum]

So damned if they don't, and damned if they do? Is that the mantra moving forward? All this breathlessness about discounts that amount to very, very little in the grand scheme of things, fully disclosed on the front of every DVC transaction and foreshadowed clearly by the 2011 changes, and now when they seem to be doing the right thing by you, we're going to damn them with faint (or no) praise?

What's that about?

Ask the early owners. Ask those of us who bought in direct and "paid too much" vs the savvy resale crowd. The perks DO NOT comprise even a small portion of the actual value in the DVC membership. They are nigh on worthless for this member. So inconsequential when dropping thousands in one or two weeks that we often forget to use them at all.

Yet we bought direct in 2005, and just doubled down with a resale contract (in ROFR)... Not because of some magical secret club we were part of and special in, but because of math. Simply math. We go to Disney a lot, plan to go a lot more, and enjoy the occasional side-trip to other destinations in the expanded offerings catalog.

Our membership has changed substantially over that time. APs, at first not available at any discount but available because we had "property" in Florida, came in at a great price, now aren't so great a value. Interval International, which from our experience was a GREAT trade option with wonderful locations thrown to the curb for ho-hum RCI, but then expanded to single night and less-than-week options - so some good, some bad on that one. A free smore one night I think, but no extra marshmallows....

What I'm saying is, it's ever in flux. It's never static. It was never promised as such. It isn't represented as such. The company is CRYSTAL clear that they don't owe you anything but timeshare accommodations. It is a real-estate interest that provides deluxe resort accommodations and rooms otherwise inaccessible to the regular resort-goer at what become, over time, reasonable rates. THAT'S IT.

That's all it ever was. There has been no betrayal promulgated on anyone. Could they handle things more delicately? Sure they could. Could they afford to keep giving everyone everything? Of course they could. Does it make them evil that they didn't intend to? Not really - they are and always have been a corporation interested in making money. Both with Walt and since. I'm glad this experience helped remove some scales from people's eyes, I guess.

But good golly! Some of you've been screaming for pages and pages like the Mouse came to your house and kicked your children in the head. Now, when they provide the consideration (it seems) that you loudly proclaimed they should all along... Nothing. Crickets, and not the Jiminy kind.

You were not entitled to this change in their announced policy. They owe you nothing. They've said all along that perks are perks and that they can change or remove them at ANY time. For whatever reason, it seems they gave you a gift, or clarified what they intended all along, or heard the complaints and decided it made sense to address them, or whatever this is. Say thanks, and move along.

 

[suebeelin]

The point isn't the monetary value of dvc... The point is how the change was executed.

Regardless of the fact that perks can be legally taken away without notice, or perks are not contractual, DVD acted poorly, clearly with no thought on customer service or care about the repeat customer.

Resale dvc purchasers are repeat customers, regardless of whether they are the most lucrative of DW's customer base, they nevertheless are regular visitors.

My disgust has nothing to do with whether the "core value" of the "timeshare", aka dvc, has been decimated. No. My disgust is born of the realization that even the pretence of customer service and grace was abandoned-- and DW "magic" is a complete and utter sham.

And if they will treat one subgroup this way, I'm pretty sure I'm next-- if not next time, then at some point in the future.

 

[suebeelin]

Ps... There are so many "new" disboards posters who signed up last month or even this month defending DVD... Telling us how we shouldn't complain, how we should be happy with what we get, how we shouldn't be disappointed with the mouse.

How odd, I say.

How odd.

 

[DisDadDVC]

You know honestly we are not even sure they have changed anything. Maybe this was the plan from the beginning and many including brokers over reacted and due to social media and emails flying back and forth it all got confused.

And truthfully, I don't think DVC or Disney changed. Some of you have just now seen behind the curtain. It has always been that way even when Walt was alive. It was just not as obvious without social media to constantly put them under a microscope.

If you think Walt wasn't a tough businessman, watch the documentary on him and the Animation Strike of 1941.

I agree 100%. Whatever Disney intended 2 days ago is what they intend to do now, and never changed their mind in between. However, I STILL can't tell you what exactly it is they intend to do. It's no wonder their own employees were likely confused.

 

[DisDadDVC]

The point isn't the monetary value of dvc... The point is how the change was executed.

Regardless of the fact that perks can be legally taken away without notice, or perks are not contractual, DVD acted poorly, clearly with no thought on customer service or care about the repeat customer.

Resale dvc purchasers are repeat customers, regardless of whether they are the most lucrative of DW's customer base, they nevertheless are regular visitors.

My disgust has nothing to do with whether the "core value" of the "timeshare", aka dvc, has been decimated. No. My disgust is born of the realization that even the pretence of customer service and grace was abandoned-- and DW "magic" is a complete and utter sham.

And if they will treat one subgroup this way, I'm pretty sure I'm next-- if not next time, then at some point in the future.

I'm not sure what part you are most upset about. Is it because there is a new class of resale? If so, that shouldn't be a big surprise since many of us are already "second class citizens" since 2011. If you are upset at the thought Disney would screw over the current buyers in ROFR, then I am not sure that was ever a reality.

 

[jedcaum]

Ps... There are so many "new" disboards posters who signed up last month or even this month defending DVD... Telling us how we shouldn't complain, how we should be happy with what we get, how we shouldn't be disappointed with the mouse.

How odd, I say.

How odd.

Conspiracy theories and paranoia now?

This is exactly the kind of drama I'm talking about that has no place in this deliberation. It's a pure financial decision, not magic. Disney has been a corporation first for a long, long time. I'm not defending anything other than rationality.

I joined this board because I was considering an add-on through resale and wanted some perspective first. I got that, but I also got a whole lot of people with expectations wildly out of whack from what they should be when buying a timeshare. Threatening to cancel a $20k decision because you can't get a soda in the walkway on the pond at Epcot, which they never promised to begin with? Really?

I'm not saying anyone should be happy with what they get, exactly. What I AM saying is that people should know exactly what they are buying before they buy it. Clearly, several posters on this board did not. If you had, you wouldn't be so blindsided or feeling so betrayed by what was clearly not only possible, but probable all along with the DVC product.

Did anyone seriously think Disney corporation cared about them as people? I mean, I love the parks and have a great time there with the family, but the idea that they care... That just boggles the mind.

 

[southerngirl528]

So damned if they don't, and damned if they do? Is that the mantra moving forward? All this breathlessness about discounts that amount to very, very little in the grand scheme of things, fully disclosed on the front of every DVC transaction and foreshadowed clearly by the 2011 changes, and now when they seem to be doing the right thing by you, we're going to damn them with faint (or no) praise?

Our membership has changed substantially over that time. APs, at first not available at any discount but available because we had "property" in Florida, came in at a great price, now aren't so great a value. Interval International, which from our experience was a GREAT trade option with wonderful locations thrown to the curb for ho-hum RCI, but then expanded to single night and less-than-week options - so some good, some bad on that one. A free smore one night I think, but no extra marshmallows....

What I'm saying is, it's ever in flux. It's never static. It was never promised as such. It isn't represented as such. The company is CRYSTAL clear that they don't owe you anything but timeshare accommodations. It is a real-estate interest that provides deluxe resort accommodations and rooms otherwise inaccessible to the regular resort-goer at what become, over time, reasonable rates. THAT'S IT.

Well said. I had noticed the very same thing. People are still breathing fire after DVC backtracked. Seems to me folks should be pretty happy for the most part. And for those that were considering DVC resale, now they know about the new rulings and they can make an informed decision. And that's a good thing, Martha Stewart.

 

[suebeelin]

Conspiracy theories and paranoia now?

This is exactly the kind of drama I'm talking about that has no place in this deliberation. It's a pure financial decision, not magic. Disney has been a corporation first for a long, long time. I'm not defending anything other than rationality.

I joined this board because I was considering an add-on through resale and wanted some perspective first. I got that, but I also got a whole lot of people with expectations wildly out of whack from what they should be when buying a timeshare. Threatening to cancel a $20k decision because you can't get a soda in the walkway on the pond at Epcot, which they never promised to begin with? Really?

I'm not saying anyone should be happy with what they get, exactly. What I AM saying is that people should know exactly what they are buying before they buy it. Clearly, several posters on this board did not. If you had, you wouldn't be so blindsided or feeling so betrayed by what was clearly not only possible, but probable all along with the DVC product.

Did anyone seriously think Disney corporation cared about them as people? I mean, I love the parks and have a great time there with the family, but the idea that they care... That just boggles the mind.

Disneys product is about setting itself apart through their customer service. Unfortunately, looks like that's no longer the case.

And ppl wanting to cancel makes perfect sense to me... The resale market will dip, maybe temporarily, and the $20k may only be $17k next month. You can buy a lot of sodas with the difference.

I would just as happily forego drinking soda at some lounge if you gave me a few thousand dollars.

And no, I do not think Disney as a corporation cares about ME, per se. However, I did think they cared about their reputation and the long term consequences of having a good- or bad- reputation. Clearly Shanghai has made the short term way more important than the long term....

Btw, dvc (and my Disney stock) has always been purely financial for me. However, given the trends, I'm ambivalent about my holdings. I will need to really evaluate going forward. If Disney is all about the short term profits, it doesn't bode well from a long term perspective.

I'm not sure what part you are most upset about. Is it because there is a new class of resale? If so, that shouldn't be a big surprise since many of us are already "second class citizens" since 2011. If you are upset at the thought Disney would screw over the current buyers in ROFR, then I am not sure that was ever a reality.

I was upset that Disney would screw the buyers in rofr. If it was never a reality, their poor communication is just as surprising. Then again, why am I surprised? Their IT is as bad as it gets.

 

[Sammie]

Ps... There are so many "new" disboards posters who signed up last month or even this month defending DVD... Telling us how we shouldn't complain, how we should be happy with what we get, how we shouldn't be disappointed with the mouse.

How odd, I say.

How odd.

Now, now Suebeelin, don't you see what you just did. You put DISboard members in a class based on when they joined and how many messages they have posted.

Jed only has 17 messages but he joined March 17, you joined in 2011 and have 740 message. I on the other hand have been here since 99 and have over 21,000 messages and honestly it means nothing.

Those that joined today are just as qualified to share their opinions as you and I. There truly is nothing odd about it.

 

[dvcdream4fld]

Disney is supposed to model of customer service. DVC timeshare resale is higher than other timeshare resale both because of ROFR inflated market and Disney selling pixie dust or as I like to call it, good customer service. Planned miscommunication (really???) or failure to plan, it doesn't matter to me, just plain bad customer service, and I'm glad most people recognized that, and maybe Disney has recognized that too.

I guess I will keep my username for now.

 

[suebeelin]

Now, now Suebeelin, don't you see what you just did. You put DISboard members in a class based on when they joined and how many messages they have posted.

Jed only has 17 messages but he joined March 17, you joined in 2011 and have 740 message. I on the other hand have been here since 99 and have over 21,000 messages and honestly it means nothing.

Those that joined today are just as qualified to share their opinions as you and I. There truly is nothing odd about it.

I lurked for a while before joining, and joined when I had questions about dvc and needed to post. Then I lurked again for awhile until I stated feeling comfortable posting. I'm not feeling so comfortable anymore, so perhaps I should lurk yet again.

Just seems odd when the only posts that some very new posters have are to only defend DVD. Am I placing anyone in another class? No. However, I do wonder why some new posters have only posted to defend DVD for their new restrictions, and have not posted on anything else. There does seem to be a vested interest.

Maybe not Jed but there was another poster who was all up in arms defending DVD on the day of the 4.4.16 revelations. Not even a sympathetic nod to those in limbo.

 

[Lyn-CA]

Ps... There are so many "new" disboards posters who signed up last month or even this month defending DVD... Telling us how we shouldn't complain, how we should be happy with what we get, how we shouldn't be disappointed with the mouse.

How odd, I say.

How odd.

Ignore button is your friend. It's hard for those who didn't lose anything to understand. The contract I signed in February came with the perks. I, in particular, relied on those perks for our August trip. I sold the whole entire package-pre-paid accommodations AND perks to my DH. I told him that we're going to be saving 20% using the TIW card that is available to DVC members for our 15 ADRs. I played up the fact that we will be welcome to visit TOWL, the new epcot lounge, and pool hop (great selling point for an August trip). I was looking forward to having that card in my hand to use for when we went shopping. I was going to check out the DVC offering on the Dream. I closed on March 30. I finally belonged to DVC after years of waiting. Then five days later, I'm told DVD is taking away the very perks I was relying on but that I was grandfathered in. The following day, I'm told that I lost the perks. What is so hard to understand about this loss?

 

[Lyn-CA]

Suebeelin, I'll be on the lookout for Jed at the DVC sales center and I'll be sure to say hi to him for you.

 

[jedcaum]

I agree that ppl who join the board legitimately to be a part of the community are qualified to share their opinions. It's just suspect that the 17 messages happen to solely be about defending dvd's strange behavior. There have been other posters who seemed to have joined solely for the purpose of defending DVD/promoting direct sales.

I lurked for a while before joining, and joined when I had questions about dvc and needed to post. Then I lurked again for awhile until I stated feeling comfortable posting. I'm not feeling so comfortable anymore, so perhaps I should lurk yet again.

Just seems odd when the only posts that some very new posters have are to only defend DVD.

I just found it quite odd. Am I placing anyone in another class? No. However, I do wonder why some new posters have only posted to defend DVD for their new restrictions, and have not posted on anything else. There does seem to be a vested interest.

You may not find it odd. I do. We can agree to disagree.

As is the nature of the beast, this is an open forum where opinions should be welcomed, so long as there is no pretense. I find some opinions odd. You find my opinion about finding some opinions odd just as odd. And the world continues to spin.

You're seriously going to continue to question whether I'm some corporate plant because my opinion is different than yours?

That's just weird, and vaguely creepy. If you've stalked my posts, and it sounds like you have, you'll know that I am what I say I am. A DVC member who purchased in 2005 and decided recently to add some resale points. At a very interesting time.

My perspective is mine, and I think, useful for some of the pollyanna-ism around here about what you are buying. It's a timeshare. Period. It isn't some magically different timeshare from some benevolent universal presence. It's a time share. From a pretty cut-throat corporate entity in Disney, no less.

You've got Disney stock? So do I, that my family has had through split after split after split, a modest investment in the late 60s becoming a decent chunk of change through the years. They just made $2B on the first film from a $4B investment. with more already in the pipeline. The Incredibles 2 is about to hit. Star Wars expansions in the parks, merchandising, blah blah blah. I'm pretty happy with my Disney stock's performance over time.

Are they infallible? No. Not by a long shot. But because they bungled a change in a very small part of their business (ancillary, really, and one that helps them cover otherwise unrecoverable tresort costs, subsidize promos to get more people in the park, etc.) that affected - for a couple days - a tiny, infinitesimal part of their clientele, you are going to chuck solid investments in that ancillary business (the timeshare) AND your stock in the company??!?!??

What sense does that make, rationally? And while you contemplate that likely very bad from a purely financial standpoint, irrational decision, you're going to assume that a new poster to these boards is a plant because I'm saying to take some real stock of your decisions, do the math, be dispassionate, be deliberate in your thought processes, and don't let emotion rule what you do or don't do with an investment?!?!

Crazy times we live in.

 

[jedcaum]

Ignore button is your friend. It's hard for those who didn't lose anything to understand. The contract I signed in February came with the perks. I, in particular, relied on those perks for our August trip. I sold the whole entire package-pre-paid accommodations AND perks to my DH. I told him that we're going to be saving 20% using the TIW card that is available to DVC members for our 15 ADRs. I played up the fact that we will be welcome to visit TOWL, the new epcot lounge, and pool hop (great selling point for an August trip). I was looking forward to having that card in my hand to use for when we went shopping. I was going to check out the DVC offering on the Dream. I closed on March 30. I finally belonged to DVC after years of waiting. Then five days later, I'm told DVD is taking away the very perks I was relying on but that I was grandfathered in. The following day, I'm told that I lost the perks. What is so hard to understand about this loss?

Because those things were never really yours. They aren't really anyones, including previous resale and/or direct buyers. They can and have been taken away at the whims of Disney since the inception of DVC. They will certainly change again. Your feeling of loss, while real, is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what you were purchasing in the first place.

Ignore me if you want, or call me a stooge. But what I say is true. And you'll have a lot fewer emotional roller coasters while enjoying the real ones more if you heed my words.