Who'll stand with me...outside the DVC 'member' lounge?

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

The issue isn't so much the new rules, it's the way that Disney made the changes, not caring about the owners and owners in process involved. In addition all of the other Disney changes, price increases and reduction in amenities and product, cutting back on CM's, and two major executives leaving the company has given guests something to think about. Many were caught up in the Disney magic and thinking that there was a Disney difference but now they realize that Disney is just like other companies who put profit ahead of the guest relationship.

Bill

Exactly I learnt that with the Premium AP 20% now you see it now you don't. Disney are there to make money. I am there to enjoy my DVC and we still do. I just don't kid myself anymore that the entertainment is there for my pure delight they want our cash but I enjoy it so whilst we still do we will come. Sometimes we come and stay and have no pass and do other things in Florida or sit by the pool. Make DVC work for you. It's yours for the next x years!

 

[mynameisnobody]

Your broker passed you bad information, and you're holding DVC accountable. There's no way to confirm exactly what your broker did or didn't do, only what they told you they did. They had motivation to pacify you so you'd keep your contract, while at that point DVC wasn't even involved to communicate directly with you. It could be that your broker gave you assurance before checking with DVC, and then realized they were wrong and had to backpedal. Maybe they read this on forums and blogs (I did, and it was wrong!) Your beef is with your broker. That said, I feel for you and the position you're in.

The brokers were passing the bad information that they received from DVC. DVC told them one thing, then later told them something different. DVC's lack of effective and accurate communication is what caused this mess and they should be held accountable. The brokers were only the messengers. I've even seen posts where individuals contacted DVC directly and were told the same bad information only to be corrected later.

I honestly don't think we've seen the end of this though. I would encourage all those owners out there who do not have a contract purchased directly from DVD to take a close look at the MEADS. The updated paragraph

Membership Extras, such as vacation options in the Disney and Concierge Collections, certain discounts, offers, and special events are incidental benefits. These incidental benefits are subject to change or termination without notice, may require the payment of a fee and cannot be combined with any other offers or promotions. Membership Extras are also subject to availability and block-out dates may apply, including high periods of demand such as Christmas and New Year’s Day. To receive any Membership Extras, purchasers must present a valid Disney Vacation Club Membership Card along with a corresponding valid photo ID. Disney and Concierge Collections options are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who have not purchased an ownership interest directly from DVD will not have access to Membership Extras.

gives me reason to believe that at some point the Membership Extras are going to disappear from anyone that doesn't own a direct purchase contract. Maybe not this week, this month, or 3 months from now but the wording implies it will happen. Maybe they'll update that phrase to read like the phrase before it but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Cinderella624]

Oooh Oooh hi OP I have been angrily posting on other forums regarding this but saw your post and wanted to hug you. Your story is almost EXACTLY mine. After months of getting to convince DH to go for DVC be finally relented but still didn't fully understand it and definitely could live without it. We passed ROFR the end of March and had a closing date of 4/13. Then we got the email... (I've been in a psychotic state of rage ever since) I disliked sheepishly telling my husband we don't get to do any of the cool things I sold him on (discounted ap, member lounge ). I did write an email to Mr. PetRock . I also put it on their FB page. It was up there for like 3 whole hours before they removed it, carefully leaving posts from nut jobs who praise the change since they paid so much for their DVC and should be getting more perks . Anyway, here's my email :


I wanted to share how disappointed I am in the way Disney Vacation Club handled the policy change on 4/4/16.

As avid Disney fans we finally made the decision to purchase DVC via resale. We made that decision because, other than not having access to the Disney Collection, the vacation ownership was otherwise the same. We put in an offer and were excited when we passed Right of First Refusal on 3/25/16. Our closing date is scheduled for 4/13/16. You can imagine my disappointment when I read that this new policy change would affect me. Initially, there was little detail provided about who would be included in regards to pending purchases. Hours later phone calls made by our brokers to staff at DVC indicated that because we (and many others) had already passed ROFR we would not be affected by this change. The next morning I was both disappointed and angered to learn that further communication with DVC revealed that anyone who had not closed by 4/4/16 would have their benefits reduced and effectively be treated as a second class DVC member. Had we been given advanced warning about this change we could have decided that the direct buy benefits were worth it to us and made the decision to buy from Disney direct. Unfortunately there was zero notice, just a vaguely worded email sent late in the night with no details regarding how this would affect those already under contract followed by misinformation.


A company as customer service based as Disney should have the forethought to know this would cause some bad feelings to those of us not yet closed on our DVC purchases. Many of us are long past our ten day period to rescind. As such, we are ‘stuck’ buying a product that is not at all what we thought we were getting when we locked into our contracts. The money that Disney will save on discounts withheld to the few with pending contracts can’t possibly be enough to justify the sour taste we now have in regards to our new purchase. You effectively took away the right of many to make an informed decision. While Disney does reserve the right to remove incidental benefits without notice, it’s hardly the way to start a relationship with your most loyal clientele, the ones who have and will continue to spend thousands per year at Disney Parks.


I sincerely hope that in the coming days there will be clarification on this policy change and that you will reconsider your decision to exclude those of us who have invested a significant amount of money becoming members but are just a few days shy of being acknowledged as such.

So to answer your question.... Me! I'll wait outside the lounge with you! We can get t shirts that proudly announce to the world that we are "Half DVC Members"

That was my exact feelings! Great job!

 

[2thdr]

The brokers were passing the bad information that they received from DVC. DVC told them one thing, then later told them something different. DVC's lack of effective and accurate communication is what caused this mess and they should be held accountable. The brokers were only the messengers. I've even seen posts where individuals contacted DVC directly and were told the same bad information only to be corrected later.

I honestly don't think we've seen the end of this though. I would encourage all those owners out there who do not have a contract purchased directly from DVD to take a close look at the MEADS. The updated paragraph

Membership Extras, such as vacation options in the Disney and Concierge Collections, certain discounts, offers, and special events are incidental benefits. These incidental benefits are subject to change or termination without notice, may require the payment of a fee and cannot be combined with any other offers or promotions. Membership Extras are also subject to availability and block-out dates may apply, including high periods of demand such as Christmas and New Year’s Day. To receive any Membership Extras, purchasers must present a valid Disney Vacation Club Membership Card along with a corresponding valid photo ID. Disney and Concierge Collections options are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who have not purchased an ownership interest directly from DVD will not have access to Membership Extras.

gives me reason to believe that at some point the Membership Extras are going to disappear from anyone that doesn't own a direct purchase contract. Maybe not this week, this month, or 3 months from now but the wording implies it will happen. Maybe they'll update that phrase to read like the phrase before it but I wouldn't hold my breath.

DVC has no connection to or relationship with the brokers. Why would they be passing them information? It's hard for me to believe that DVC would allow their reps to tell the wrong thing to any broker agents who called, unless they sprung this on their own people with poor training too.
Perks have come and gone over the years. When they go, my reaction is, "aw, crap!" not rage at being deceived. And remember, perks can be taken just as easily from members who bought direct! I know exactly what I bought.

 

[JimMIA]

DVC has no connection to or relationship with the brokers.

This is incorrect. DVC does have a relationship with a broker whereby they refer DVC owners who want to sell in return with some sort of commission-sharing arrangement. Not sure what the deal is today, but it used to be 50% with Fidelity.

In addition, DVC has daily (probably hourly) communication with the primary resellers of DVC contracts. That doesn't mean DVC has any obligation to give the brokers a heads up on something like this, but they do talk all the time.

And, of course, we're all familiar with the level of accuracy to expect from DVC. They can't even get their own official publications to agree on this one -- why should we expect the rank and file employees to know what's going on?

 

[2thdr]

This is incorrect. DVC does have a relationship with a broker whereby they refer DVC owners who want to sell in return with some sort of commission-sharing arrangement. Not sure what the deal is today, but it used to be 50% with Fidelity.

In addition, DVC has daily (probably hourly) communication with the primary resellers of DVC contracts. That doesn't mean DVC has any obligation to give the brokers a heads up on something like this, but they do talk all the time.

And, of course, we're all familiar with the level of accuracy to expect from DVC. They can't even get their own official publications to agree on this one -- why should we expect the rank and file employees to know what's going on?

Huh-what? To the best of my knowledge, owners go to brokers, tell them to sell their contracts for a certain price, brokers find customers who agree to the terms, and then the offer goes to DVC for ROFR. That's the only involvement DVC has, approving the price. If yes, the sale goes through. If no, DVD buys it. No referrals or commissions. The brokers are the only ones who should be pooping their pants right now.

 

[Lyn-CA]

It makes me sad to see all the posts telling posters how they should feel or that they are not entitled to feel frustrated or sad or disappointed or angry.

Everyone knows that perks and discounts and all the "Membership Extras" are not part of our contract. Knowing that does not stop the disappointment when the availability of those things disappear without warning - and disappear just for you, not the entire membership. (That would still disappoint, but at least you'd have a lot more company).

If this has happened to you, you have my sympathy. But please don't make any rash decisions while you are upset. The reasons you bought are almost certainly still valid. After things settle a bit and you can quantify the value of the perks that are important to you, it will be easier to decide if a direct purchase of 25 points will be worth it to have access to them.

Thank you for being sympathetic. It is indeed helpful.

 

[JimMIA]

Huh-what? To the best of my knowledge, owners go to brokers, tell them to sell their contracts for a certain price, brokers find customers who agree to the terms, and then the offer goes to DVC for ROFR. That's the only involvement DVC has, approving the price. If yes, the sale goes through. If no, DVD buys it. No referrals or commissions.

That's simply not the case. Disney has had referral/commission-sharing arrangements with brokers for many, many years -- originally with TTS, then with Fidelity at a higher share rate, and most recently I think with another broker (can't remember their name, but founded by brokers who used to work for Fidelity).

The brokers are the only ones who should be pooping their pants right now.

Not the only ones, but I'm sure they're experiencing discomfort!

 

[Lyn-CA]

Oooh Oooh hi OP I have been angrily posting on other forums regarding this but saw your post and wanted to hug you. Your story is almost EXACTLY mine. After months of getting to convince DH to go for DVC be finally relented but still didn't fully understand it and definitely could live without it. We passed ROFR the end of March and had a closing date of 4/13. Then we got the email... (I've been in a psychotic state of rage ever since) I disliked sheepishly telling my husband we don't get to do any of the cool things I sold him on (discounted ap, member lounge ). I did write an email to Mr. PetRock . I also put it on their FB page. It was up there for like 3 whole hours before they removed it, carefully leaving posts from nut jobs who praise the change since they paid so much for their DVC and should be getting more perks .

So to answer your question.... Me! I'll wait outside the lounge with you! We can get t shirts that proudly announce to the world that we are "Half DVC Members"

Thank you for sharing your story. Maybe if we sell enough variations of shirts--"Unwanted step-child of DVC" "Un-welcome Home" etc. to our fellow sympathizers and commiserators, perhaps we can earn enough money to buy the 25 add-on direct so we can enter the lounge.

It does help to hear from someone else who is negatively affected. I think what those who are not affected fail to see is that it's not so much the perks being taken away, rather Disney's execution of the policy change in bad faith that is the crux of the issue. Having gone through the emotional turmoil of this experience, I hope I can be sympathetic to them when one day they wake up to a policy change that negatively affects them without prior notice.

 

[2thdr]

That's simply not the case. Disney has had referral/commission-sharing arrangements with brokers for many, many years -- originally with TTS, then with Fidelity at a higher share rate, and most recently I think with another broker (can't remember their name, but founded by brokers who used to work for Fidelity).Not the only ones, but I'm sure they're experiencing discomfort!

Are those brokers, or financing companies?

 

[erionm]

Are those brokers, or financing companies?

Brokers. If you call DVC and say you want to sell your membership, they will refer you to one of their preferred resale companies.

 

[DisDadDVC]

rather Disney's execution of the policy change in bad faith that is the crux of the issue.

Again, Disney was not involved in selling you your resale transaction. You were buying from another owner. Now, if you were buying DIRECT from Disney, and they changed something in the middle, you would have a point.

 

[DisDadDVC]

Brokers. If you call DVC and say you want to sell your membership, they will refer you to one of their preferred resale companies.

Also, I believe they funnel all of their foreclosures through one of the main brokers. Disney does not take those properties back themselves.

 

[Lynne M]

Having gone through the emotional turmoil of this experience, I hope I can be sympathetic to them when one day they wake up to a policy change that negatively affects them without prior notice.

I am sympathetic to your disappointment, but I will say that if policy changes without notice are something you find unacceptable, you're in for a very, very rough ride with DVC. I've been a member for 15 years, and I'm trying to remember the last time advance notice was given for a program change that negatively impacted certain members. I can't think of any. I do remember a whole bunch of threads over the years posted by members who were very upset by one sudden change or another.

Advance notice just isn't their thing, it appears.

 

[2thdr]

Brokers. If you call DVC and say you want to sell your membership, they will refer you to one of their preferred resale companies.

Does DVC get a commission from them? Or do they only provide a referral from a list? There's a big difference!

 

[erionm]

Does DVC get a commission from them? Or do they only provide a referral from a list? There's a big difference!

That I don't know.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

In addition, DVC has daily (probably hourly) communication with the primary resellers of DVC contracts. That doesn't mean DVC has any obligation to give the brokers a heads up on something like this, but they do talk all the time.

I can confirm this. I made my offer contingent on the seller cancelling the fixed week reservation in July so the points would be bankable. The broker was easily able to check this with Disney to make sure it had happened. If you use a broker that does a lot of volume, they generally have a good working relationship with Disney.

 

[linzjane88]

Thank you for sharing your story. Maybe if we sell enough variations of shirts--"Unwanted step-child of DVC" "Un-welcome Home" etc. to our fellow sympathizers and commiserators, perhaps we can earn enough money to buy the 25 add-on direct so we can enter the lounge.

It does help to hear from someone else who is negatively affected. I think what those who are not affected fail to see is that it's not so much the perks being taken away, rather Disney's execution of the policy change in bad faith that is the crux of the issue. Having gone through the emotional turmoil of this experience, I hope I can be sympathetic to them when one day they wake up to a policy change that negatively affects them without prior notice.

. Want to know what's funny? DVC reps called me this morning to discuss exciting new offers with purchasing dvc direct.

And I REALLY wish people would stop acting like we are being crybabies and should just get over it. I'm sure we will eventually but the truth is the package we signed up to buy is drastically different for us than it was when we put in our offers and passed ROFR. The people affected most are people in our situation, days away from closing and told we will get a dumbed down version of what we signed up and paid 20k for. The majority of those are ones pointing out that we should just be happy are the ones who have all their benefits in tact.

 

[Lyn-CA]

Again, Disney was not involved in selling you your resale transaction. You were buying from another owner. Now, if you were buying DIRECT from Disney, and they changed something in the middle, you would have a point.

Disney was directly involved in changing what my transaction entailed as of February.

 

[mynameisnobody]

rather Disney's execution of the policy change in bad faith that is the crux of the issue.

Again, Disney was not involved in selling you your resale transaction. You were buying from another owner. Now, if you were buying DIRECT from Disney, and they changed something in the middle, you would have a point.

Exactly.

DVC, as all other divisions in the Walt Disney Company are under tremendous pressure to reduce costs/increase revenues. DVC was able to reduce costs without affecting a single existing owner. DVC is not out to punish people who purchase resale. They simply opted to reduce future cost exposure by eliminating perks and extras for future owners that don't purchase direct. If you're not purchasing directly from DVD then you aren't contributing revenue to DVD. Keep in mind that if the actions taken to reduce costs across all divisions aren't able to stop the bleeding, or at least slow it significantly, from Shanghai until it starts producing on it's own you can be guaranteed they'll be making deeper cuts that will probably affect existing resale and direct purchase owners. Like it or not their first priority is to their shareholders. Unfortunately the "magic" takes a hit sometimes when cuts must be made.