Who Thinks That The 2008 Diney Plan Will Change?

[angelmav]

Alright Just Another Guy, your obviously a buffet server or related/friends to one. Not once did I say we had horrible service! I stated we paid a 35$ Gratuity times 2 (other half of our party on the other side of the wall) for our pre-bussed plates to be removed and a couple of refills from the pitcher of iced tea. The server was very pleasant, however very pleasant to me is not worth $35, maybe to you. Also, the food is READY WHEN YOU GET THERE, you dont have to keep checking back, get the appetizer, make sure the food and service isnt rushed, deal with the kitchen, this is Restaurant 101 stuff here, in no way shape or form does a server in a buffet have to do any of that and the tables TURN MUCH QUICKER because of it. Quit insulting everyones intelligence with these statements because your afraid you (or yours) wont get their 18%.

 

[bicker]

The reason why the US standard for tipping buffet servers is substantially less than the US standard for tipping restaurant serviers is that buffet servers spread their work among a larger set of tables, thereby garnering a significantly higher number of tips for roughly the same amount of work, therefore each tip is substantially lower, making the two positions roughly equivalent in compensation.

 

[antkim]

Alright Just Another Guy, your obviously a buffet server or related/friends to one. Not once did I say we had horrible service! I stated we paid a 35$ Gratuity times 2 (other half of our party on the other side of the wall) for our pre-bussed plates to be removed and a couple of refills from the pitcher of iced tea. The server was very pleasant, however very pleasant to me is not worth $35, maybe to you. Also, the food is READY WHEN YOU GET THERE, you dont have to keep checking back, get the appetizer, make sure the food and service isnt rushed, deal with the kitchen, this is Restaurant 101 stuff here, in no way shape or form does a server in a buffet have to do any of that and the tables TURN MUCH QUICKER because of it. Quit insulting everyones intelligence with these statements because your afraid you (or yours) wont get their 18%.

That was rude. You made your points and he is making his...and his are quite good.

You want him to quit insulting everyones intelligence? Why don't you try to quit insulting everyone that does not agree with you???? Or just stop dining at buffet locations..that way you are not upset that you have to leave 18% for a server that apparently does not deserve it in your eyes....simple solution.

 

[melomouse]

(sigh - why do folks get so outraged over tipping??)

No, I do not think Disney will ever include the tip again, nor do i think they will do the appetizer/dessert choice option, for reasons JimMIA pointed out so well.

I do not agree that when folks look back at Dining Plans offered in the past, they will be upset. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of changes at WDW over the years and we all have a degree of longing for the "good ol' days", but upset? No!

We've done FDP, paid 2007 DDP, and will be back February 3, 2008 to share our experiences with the '08 DDP. The "great deal" on DDP is over. It still is a "pretty good" deal for my family. I'm forking over a few thousand bucks for our next vacation and paying the gratuity will be more of a brain pain to do math than a pain in the wallet at that point.

 

[just another guy]

Alright Just Another Guy, your obviously a buffet server or related/friends to one. Not once did I say we had horrible service! I stated we paid a 35$ Gratuity times 2 (other half of our party on the other side of the wall) for our pre-bussed plates to be removed and a couple of refills from the pitcher of iced tea. The server was very pleasant, however very pleasant to me is not worth $35, maybe to you. Also, the food is READY WHEN YOU GET THERE, you dont have to keep checking back, get the appetizer, make sure the food and service isnt rushed, deal with the kitchen, this is Restaurant 101 stuff here, in no way shape or form does a server in a buffet have to do any of that and the tables TURN MUCH QUICKER because of it. Quit insulting everyones intelligence with these statements because your afraid you (or yours) wont get their 18%.

Hey, I'm simply stating the truth. Some people can only see one side of the story, and I'm just shining a bit of light on the other side. Did you even read all my past reply. We went to a menu style TS restaurant, and the server did about the bare minimum to get by, which is exactly what could be said about a server who simply removes dirty dishes at a buffet. In each example, they could stop by the table only 3 times during a guests meal, and thats it. Now a good buffet server would be by a LOT more often, check out you to see how you like this or that, suggest you try one of those, etc, ETC.

Anyway, a server just getting by with 3 stops at a table during a meal does the same work at a buffet versus a normal TS restaurant. On a $200 bill, each server gets $36 dollars. In each case they did the same amount of work. However, a good buffet server like I described above is easily walking passed their table 6-12 times during a meal.

The reason why the US standard for tipping buffet servers is substantially less than the US standard for tipping restaurant serviers is that buffet servers spread their work among a larger set of tables, thereby garnering a significantly higher number of tips for roughly the same amount of work, therefore each tip is substantially lower, making the two positions roughly equivalent in compensation.

Maybe you're speaking of Golden Corral, because what you said doesn't apply to disney. The tables do not turn faster, and they do NOT have more tables. Thats why as of the first of the year, those grat cards that have been missing the past 2 months will be back in full force, and they are even required to be placed in the black books per union contract. The standard for all disney restaurants is 15-20%.

 

[kamgen]

We were really upset about the appetizer being removed. We have used the 2007DDP on all of our trips and loved it. Seeing the appetizer removal made us mad...we love having salad or soup before dinner and now it is not included.
As for the gratuity thing, I have no problem with them removing it....but I do have a problem with 18% being automatically added. Diners should be able to tip under their own discretion based on levels of service. It shouldnt be mandatory. JMHO.

 

[angelmav]

I agree with you Kamgen, and since we are a party of 6 or more we wont ever have that discretion. That being said, all of the CM/posters who keep coming on here with an agenda trying to guilt everyone into falling into line is what I have a problem with. Many of the statements border on the unbelievable, yet, there they are.

 

[bicker]

Maybe you're speaking of Golden Corral, because what you said doesn't apply to disney.

Disney, and/or its buffet servers, may not want it to apply to Disney, but it does apply generally in the United States, i.e., far more widely than just the "Golden Corral". As such, Disney can try to make the standard different from the norm for themselves as much as they wish, but if they don't make it mandatory, they and their staff will have to deal with the ramifications of the reality of the more general situation: Unless the server very clearly does far more for the guests at each table than those guests are accustomed to receiving from a buffet server, then many guests will tip according to our national standards. I think it will be very hard to find things to do to make guests recognize and acknowledge "far more" because, since the guest is doing their own food-running, there simply isn't that much a buffet server can do to bridge that gap.

 

[just another guy]

Disney, and/or its buffet servers, may not want it to apply to Disney, but it does apply generally in the United States, i.e., far more widely than just the "Golden Corral". As such, Disney can try to make the standard different from the norm for themselves as much as they wish, but if they don't make it mandatory, they and their staff will have to deal with the ramifications of the reality of the more general situation: Unless the server very clearly does far more for the guests at each table than those guests are accustomed to receiving from a buffet server, then many guests will tip according to our national standards. I think it will be very hard to find things to do to make guests recognize and acknowledge "far more" because, since the guest is doing their own food-running, there simply isn't that much a buffet server can do to bridge that gap.

...and all the buffet servers I know have no problem making that extra magic. They do average 15-20% overall for a night, week, month, and year. They love their jobs, always try and go that extra step for the guests, and are always rewards properly. The fact is, while I'm just here chatting with you guys, there could be TONS of people reading this thread, but not posting. These people could have never been to a disney buffet before, and I'm just letting them know whats standard. I'm not screaming that everyone had to leave 15-20% no matter what. What I am saying is that for good service at a disney buffet, a 15-20% tip is expected, just as it is at other disney TS restaurants.

 

[Desnik]

We were really upset about the appetizer being removed. We have used the 2007DDP on all of our trips and loved it. Seeing the appetizer removal made us mad...we love having salad or soup before dinner and now it is not included.
As for the gratuity thing, I have no problem with them removing it....but I do have a problem with 18% being automatically added. Diners should be able to tip under their own discretion based on levels of service. It shouldnt be mandatory. JMHO.

I totally agree!!

 

[luvsJack]

I do predict at some point they will allow you to chose between an appetizer and dessert...from a limited menu of course.

I emailed Disney several months ago about this topic, letting them know my disapproval of the changes of the ddp and the reasons. The CM that called in responce of my email said that they had received a huge number of emails about the ddp's changes. She said that there probably would not be any other changes in 2008 but maybe in 2009. She also said guests on the ddp should ask at the resteraunt about choosing between a dessert and appetizer and that it is up to the individual restaraunt to make this substitution. I kind of figured this was just a way to shift blame, but she said that most restaraunts would allow it.

 

[Nancyg56]

Alright Just Another Guy, your obviously a buffet server or related/friends to one. Not once did I say we had horrible service! I stated we paid a 35$ Gratuity times 2 (other half of our party on the other side of the wall) for our pre-bussed plates to be removed and a couple of refills from the pitcher of iced tea. The server was very pleasant, however very pleasant to me is not worth $35, maybe to you. Also, the food is READY WHEN YOU GET THERE, you dont have to keep checking back, get the appetizer, make sure the food and service isnt rushed, deal with the kitchen, this is Restaurant 101 stuff here, in no way shape or form does a server in a buffet have to do any of that and the tables TURN MUCH QUICKER because of it. Quit insulting everyones intelligence with these statements because your afraid you (or yours) wont get their 18%.

I find this totally uncalled for. You have your opinion and you have every right to express it here. He does as well and his POV is from a totally different prospective than yours. In fact his prospective is from the other side of your table, a working knowledge of the job that you are discussing, making his points as valid if not more so than yours. You may have found that your intelligence was insulted, but I was insulted by your comments to another poster on our board.

The reason why the US standard for tipping buffet servers is substantially less than the US standard for tipping restaurant serviers is that buffet servers spread their work among a larger set of tables, thereby garnering a significantly higher number of tips for roughly the same amount of work, therefore each tip is substantially lower, making the two positions roughly equivalent in compensation.

This is not always true. I was a server for many years. The type of restaurants also dictates the number of tables servers have. I was employed by a formal dining restaurant and on Sunday when we served a brunch I had the same number of tables that I served during the week. My employer wanted our customers to have that same level of service that they enjoyed any other time they came to our restaurant. I made less for a lot more work because the requirements of the job are the same whether I am actually serving the food where I have some level of control, or ensuring that when my customers got their own I was able to keep their experience as clean and as polished as they were used to. It was a lot of work.

Disney, and/or its buffet servers, may not want it to apply to Disney, but it does apply generally in the United States, i.e., far more widely than just the "Golden Corral". As such, Disney can try to make the standard different from the norm for themselves as much as they wish, but if they don't make it mandatory, they and their staff will have to deal with the ramifications of the reality of the more general situation: Unless the server very clearly does far more for the guests at each table than those guests are accustomed to receiving from a buffet server, then many guests will tip according to our national standards. I think it will be very hard to find things to do to make guests recognize and acknowledge "far more" because, since the guest is doing their own food-running, there simply isn't that much a buffet server can do to bridge that gap.

I think you will find that more and more "resort" dining establishments are adding an 18% gratuity to all of their checks. My son worked a two in So FL and both added an automatic 18% to every check, that included a soda from the bar. I believe that this was to compensate for guests who chose to leave much less. I believe in the not to distant future Disney along with many other resort vacation destinations will follow suit.

 

[antkim]

I find this totally uncalled for. You have your opinion and you have every right to express it here. He does as well and his POV is from a totally different prospective than yours. In fact his prospective is from the other side of your table, a working knowledge of the job that you are discussing, making his points as valid if not more so than yours. You may have found that your intelligence was insulted, but I was insulted by your comments to another poster on our board.

I am glad someone saw it as I did!!

 

[bicker]

The reason why the US standard for tipping buffet servers is substantially less than the US standard for tipping restaurant serviers is that ...

This is not always true.

As you can see, above, I was talking about the US standard, i.e., what is the norm in the majority of cases. Beyond that, regardless of the anecdotal internal arrangements within restaurants, guests will generally follow the standard, and will expect that the standard is their obligation, and are fully justified in doing so. That's the purpose of a standard.

The key thing to keep in mind is that there is no way for a buffet restaurant to provide "that same level of service" as at full-service restaurants unless the buffet servers carry the food from the buffet to the table for the guests. There is an absolute structural barrier to the comparability between the service provided at otherwise comparable buffet restaurants and full-service restaurants.

I think you will find that more and more "resort" dining establishments are adding an 18% gratuity to all of their checks.

That is really what it would take to trump the standard.

 

[TLSnell1981]

First, we have the "standard", automatic "gratuity" added to TS. Now, we have the Disney "standard", automatic "gratuity" added to buffets. Of course, it takes the same amount of time and service to clear my plates for TS as well as buffet. ( I am a one trip to the buffet person). Next, we'll being hearing that CS is different at Disney and it's not "fair" that they don't receive the auto "grat"..... I mean they do take your order and hand you your food. Of course then we will come full circle.....the TS should be "entitled" to more because they do have to walk back and forth to your table more often and ask what you would like to eat. People, this is getting ricdiculous! Now, that a gratuity has become an automatic, entitlement in the form of a service charge, there are all kinds of interpretations of how, to whom, when, how much this SERVICE CHARGE should be. When does it stop?

I'm not even going to get into that now a "large" party is only six....or that this only applies to DDE....unless of course you are on DDP and order extra menu items....

 

[just another guy]

Next, we'll being hearing that CS is different at Disney and it's not "fair" that they don't receive the auto "grat"..... I mean they do take your order and hand you your food.

The only thing ridiculous is thinking that CS will ever get grat.

 

[Lewisc]

The only thing ridiculous is thinking that CS will ever get grat.

Look at the Pepper Market.

 

[DisOrBust]

As I have written before. a WDW sever had wrote that Disney would consider adding the grat back in IF guest complained to much. Wether this was wishfull thinking who knows. IMHO, I see MANY people complaining that have purchased a DDP and still fork out 30-50 for tip. Many have written that they liked the DDP because everything was paided up front now that convience is gone.

The whole dessert thing is also an issue IMHO. Having traveled with 2 diabetics, and knowing there are plenty more out there, eliminated the DDP having any benefit for us.

 

[TLSnell1981]

As I have written before. a WDW sever had wrote that Disney would consider adding the grat back in IF guest complained to much. Wether this was wishfull thinking who knows. IMHO, I see MANY people complaining that have purchased a DDP and still fork out 30-50 for tip. Many have written that they liked the DDP because everything was paided up front now that convience is gone.

The whole dessert thing is also an issue IMHO. Having traveled with 2 diabetics, and knowing there are plenty more out there, eliminated the DDP having any benefit for us.

I'm sure Disney would consider adding the "grat" back....for an increase in the price of the DDP....by about 18%.

I think the servers informing guests what the "standard" or acceptable "gratuity" is really rubs some of us the wrong way. A gratuity is not an entitlement. It is "a gift, given above what is required". How would you feel if you received a wedding invitation stating what the "standard" amount of a gift should be...what is "acceptable"? Is this comparing apples to oranges? A gift is a gift and auto grat is a service charge.

 

[bicker]

I'm sure Disney would consider adding the "grat" back....for an increase in the price of the DDP....by about 18%.

I agree completely.

A gratuity is not an entitlement. It is "a gift, given above what is required".

Despite what it says in the dictionary, that isn't the case in our society, with respect to restaurant servers. In our society, gratuities are expected recompense for service provided; it is an implicit obligation placed on restaurant patrons by our society's mores, an obligation to fairly tip restaurant servers in accordance with the standard (if not better). Even our tax system explicitly acknowledges the default condition of restaurant servers receiving a gratuity. It just simply isn't voluntary anymore (assuming it ever was), but rather is discretionary -- and there is a big difference between the two.