Who has only purchased direct and why?

[wdwlover25]

You do realize that you're on a discussion board, posting to the discussion board, criticizing people for posting on a discussion board- for replying to other people who have posted on a discussion board in the first place, right? I mean, it's both amusing and bizarre.

Presumably if these OP people didn't want to discuss their purchase decisions with others in a public anonymous forum, they wouldn't post here in the first place.

And when someone does post a topic, the entire point of the board is for people to discuss it- from both sides. Otherwise why have a discussion board at all? It would be kinda like having political debates where only one side is allowed to argue, and all the other side can do is post emoticons and say "yay" "cheers" and "good vibes" ...not much of a discussion at all IMO.

Now yes, it is certainly appropriate for people to be civil and respectful in their debates. To a point. That point gets blurred when someone is stridently advocating the virtues of spending money paying interest on a luxury purchase, or using magical thinking and calculations to justify a financial decision.

Sometimes, in those situations, a blunt response is EXACTLY what is appropriate even when it isn't what a poster might "want" to hear. Their real life friends are probably not going to tell them the things they will be told in this board. So it's a good thing the anonymous people here can do that. If you want only one side of the story, then just read the Disney parks blogs.

And if you don't like hearing the "other side" in a given debate on the Disboards- well, I don't really understand why you would continue to read these forums and post actively. Maybe it's time to get a different hobby???

Speaking for myself, I learn something or other almost every time I read the posts. Or I hear an old topic looked at from a different point of view and find that insightful.

So again, if one doesn't want to hear varied perspectives, then it's just hard for me to see why a person would feel the need or desire to participate in a discussion forum. But your opinion may vary from mine.

Completely agree. I can't say the info given regarding resale would sway my decision from purchasing direct as I'm typically only interested in a direct purchase when the property is new and resale doesn't exist yet. This is only one specific situation though. The resale advocates here clearly spend a lot of time researching current trends and prices and have a genuine interest in sharing this info. I was a little tempted to do a BWV direct on our last cruise... (Pixie dust is a powerful thing!) and happy for all the information reinforcing my decision to do more research before adding on at an older property.

 

[Sandisw]

I know they always routine these threads with an "with all due respect" post . You may as well put after that phrase you an idiot cause you couldn't have possibly thought of the things I am about to tell in this post on your own .

At least that is the way it comes of in every one of these posts to me . Maybe some people don't realize the real market exists to be honest that should be the extent you are looking out for people . I don't think people need to be told interest cost extra money , I don't think they need to be told they can't get certin reservations if they don't have specific home resorts , I don't think they need to be told the basics of how the DVC system works ,cause ill assume they had the decency to ask before they spent a large sum of money . To be honest it's not my job to worry about other people's decisions .

I do certainly understand where you are coming from and that at times, the debate about whether DVC should be financed gets a little "hot". Most know that I am one who says that is a personal choice as its their own money and waiting to pay cash may not outweigh the benefit of buying with finance charges.

However, I do think it is important that everyone realize what it does to the bottom line and feel comfortable that by paying it, it still works for your comfort level. In terms of the others, I also think people come here looking for advice or just experiences as to how DVC works and not sharing those experiences, even when not asked, is not as helpful as it can be when we do,

I bought my two resorts and spent more, and was going to finance--didn't end up needing to--and have bought both direct and resale but did so with a lot of knowledge from veterans here. We went in with eyes wide open and bought where we did not need to worry about booking window. I could have certainly saved thousands had I bought SSR at the time over BLT but said the extra money was worth home resort advantage.

Lets all try to remember to respect each others opinions, keep the comments helpful and try to offer our own experiences as a guide to those who may want to take a leap in what most of us here love...our DVC ownership, regardless of how we went about acquiring or for that matter, paying for it...

Happy 4th!!!!

 

[BestDadEver]

You do realize that you're on a discussion board, posting to the discussion board, criticizing people for posting on a discussion board- for replying to other people who have posted on a discussion board in the first place, right? I mean, it's both amusing and bizarre.

Presumably if these OP people didn't want to discuss their purchase decisions with others in a public anonymous forum, they wouldn't post here in the first place.

And when someone does post a topic, the entire point of the board is for people to discuss it- from both sides. Otherwise why have a discussion board at all? It would be kinda like having political debates where only one side is allowed to argue, and all the other side can do is post emoticons and say "yay" "cheers" and "good vibes" ...not much of a discussion at all IMO.

Now yes, it is certainly appropriate for people to be civil and respectful in their debates. To a point. That point gets blurred when someone is stridently advocating the virtues of spending money paying interest on a luxury purchase, or using magical thinking and calculations to justify a financial decision.

Sometimes, in those situations, a blunt response is EXACTLY what is appropriate even when it isn't what a poster might "want" to hear. Their real life friends are probably not going to tell them the things they will be told in this board. So it's a good thing the anonymous people here can do that. If you want only one side of the story, then just read the Disney parks blogs.

And if you don't like hearing the "other side" in a given debate on the Disboards- well, I don't really understand why you would continue to read these forums and post actively. Maybe it's time to get a different hobby???

Speaking for myself, I learn something or other almost every time I read the posts. Or I hear an old topic looked at from a different point of view and find that insightful.

So again, if one doesn't want to hear varied perspectives, then it's just hard for me to see why a person would feel the need or desire to participate in a discussion forum. But your opinion may vary from mine.

IMO that is kind of what this site does with these kind of posts its one sided . No sane direct buyer could put up with this kind of attacks . Ill explain that every time I post anything pro direct I have to have 5 follow up post cause explaining the first post most times cause people miss read what I wrote .

I know that we are on a discussion board , but often these discussions start in threads that have no relevance to the original topic . I stated that previously that i see no issue if the questions are asked .

 

[JimMIA]

So when looking at resale all I need to be seeing is the cost plus who pays the MFs - no other fees charged (except thru Fidelity)?

No. There are a variety of fees that someone will pay.

Disney charges a fee for the estoppel letter, and I believe a separate fee for ROFR review. You won't see those minor charges, because they are generally paid by the seller. Likewise, the seller usually pays the sales commission which is typically 10%.

Title insurance is normally not purchased for timeshares. There is usually such a clear paper trail of ownership that there is no need for title insurance. For example, if you are buying from someone who bought direct from Disney, there's no mystery about whether the seller has a legal right to sell their timeshare interest. It's not like the property has existed for hundreds of years and the title might be clouded. But if you did decide to get title insurance, that cost would normally be borne by the purchaser.

There are two other larger costs a buyer may be asked to pay all or part of: MFs and closing costs. EVERYTHING in a resale is negotiable, but these and the per-point price are the things that are most commonly negotiated.

Back when I initially purchased in 2005, the default was the seller paid the MFs and the current year points were generally considered "sweeteners" in the deal. Back then, the buyer usually paid all of the closing costs. Over time, however, both of those items have become negotiable and you'll see a lot of notations on the ROFR thread about one party paying a fee, splitting fees, etc.

 

[bakerworld]

IMO, the endorsement of resale should be reserved for contracts over 100 points. IMO, the implication is hundreds of points are needed to enjoy DVC ownership.

My guess is for those who are mathematically gifted you are telling me that if I only need 100 pts each year that I am better to stay with buy cash/discounted packages - yes??

 

[BestDadEver]

I often say "with all due respect" and I do so to soften the delivery of a statement that conflicts with a deep seeded belief that someone has, whether it be opinion or misinterpretation of fact. It's not meant to make anyone feel stupid, but to suggest that although I disagree with them strongly, I don't hold any animosity towards them. For instance, with all due respect, I think you are out of line suggesting that we are holding back from calling people idiots. To that end, there is a difference between idiocy and ignorance. To suggest that one is an idiot is incredibly offensive. However, to suggest that someone is ignorant is not (to someone who knows the true meaning of the word). Ignorance suggests a lack of knowledge pertaining to a particular subject. The fact of the matter is that many posters on here are ignorant about DVC. It's important that they know what they don't know, but pointing that out can be touchy. That's another reason for using phrases such as "with all due respect".

I am not saying that is your intent or even I think that way but I feel that is the way it can be interpreted

To be frank (is this better than "with all due respect") your posts meet a lot of resistance because they are frequently factually inaccurate or in defiance of logic. Nobody is calling you an idiot, and I am sorry if you feel that is the case. But I disagree with most of what you say, and the nature of these types of boards is to share opinions. I can flip it back on you and say that you disagree with much of what I say. That's fine. I don't take offense to it and I would hope that you don't either.

I dont think people here think I am an idiot , maybe they do I don't care . But its not the feeling I get . Again I used "with all due respect " as how they seem to come off when the topic changes dramatically form the original .

I think we'll agree to disagree on this one. If you're suggesting that we simply mention that resale exists and not provide any information on it, how it works, the pros and cons, what choices they have available or how securing a contract works, then I don't think you are being very helpful at all. Last I checked, I was not getting paid for my time or advice. But I've had many people thank me for my help, and even point out the money they have saved acting on information that I have provided. That makes me feel good, to have helped someone in that manner.

Not what I meant tell em all you want about resale and how it works . Its the other topics I think need to be left out .

I think they need to be told how much extra it costs, because nobody else is telling them that. How many people have you seen that just look at the monthly payment and are completely unaware of what the interest charges do to the true cost of ownership? I think if it were presented differently, such as "you can buy this contract now for $10,000 or you can pay for it over ten years for $18,000" I would wager that fewer people would finance.

I disagree . I am not going to go into it cause it wont go anywhere productive .

Honestly, why wouldn't you tell them these things? What do you stand to gain by not sharing this information? We've seen plenty of people who leave DVC sales presentations not having a clue as to how DVC actually works, because their "guide" was so busy spreading Pixie Dust that they didn't actually explain the nuts and bolts of the system. I don't blame them, really, as nuts and bolts are not flashy and they don't sell timeshares. But someone has to tell people these things, especially when they ask those very questions. To not share this information comes across as spiteful.

I wouldn't mention it cause I don't believe it to be true , due to long time friends that own a lot of DVC points and told me they never didn't get the reservation they wanted . These are multiple people I trust more then anyone .

True, I guess. It's not your "job" and I don't think "worry" is the right word. I don't think it's my job to help people on these boards by answering questions and offering advice when appropriate. But I do think they benefit from it, and that is a good thing to do for others. At the end of the day, I don't worry about the decisions they make, because I can't control what others do and it doesn't directly impact me at all. But don't you think there is value in doing something nice for someone else, even if you stand to gain nothing?

Yes but talking them into buying resale is mean IMO lol jk

 

[bakerworld]

No. There are a variety of fees that someone will pay.

Disney charges a fee for the estoppel letter, and I believe a separate fee for ROFR review. You won't see those minor charges, because they are generally paid by the seller. Likewise, the seller usually pays the sales commission which is typically 10%.

Title insurance is normally not purchased for timeshares. There is usually such a clear paper trail of ownership that there is no need for title insurance. For example, if you are buying from someone who bought direct from Disney, there's no mystery about whether the seller has a legal right to sell their timeshare interest. It's not like the property has existed for hundreds of years and the title might be clouded. But if you did decide to get title insurance, that cost would normally be borne by the purchaser.

There are two other larger costs a buyer may be asked to pay all or part of: MFs and closing costs. EVERYTHING in a resale is negotiable, but these and the per-point price are the things that are most commonly negotiated.

Back when I initially purchased in 2005, the default was the seller paid the MFs and the current year points were generally considered "sweeteners" in the deal. Back then, the buyer usually paid all of the closing costs. Over time, however, both of those items have become negotiable and you'll see a lot of notations on the ROFR thread about one party paying a fee, splitting fees, etc.

Thanks for the clarification
I do get confused with all the wholesale endorsement of resale first, last, and always.

 

[JimMIA]

IMO, the endorsement of resale should be reserved for contracts over 100 points. IMO, the implication is hundreds of points are needed to enjoy DVC ownership.

My guess is for those who are mathematically gifted you are telling me that if I only need 100 pts each year that I am better to stay with buy cash/discounted packages - yes??

There are so many variations in families needs/wants that I tend to shy away from general rules like over/under 100 points. I think you need to consider that for yourself in the context of your family's situation.

For example -- 100 points annually for how many trips? What will be the normal duration of a trip -- 5 days, 7 days, 20 days? Will you go every year, twice or three times a year, every 2-3 years? What size villa do you need? What season will you travel in? What can you afford to pay? Just way too many variables.

With regard to the bolded sentence above, one important but rarely considered option was mentioned by Andrew several pages back. NOT buying DVC at all is a very viable option and one people really should look at. DVC is very beneficial for many families, not so much for others. So I think a realistic look at paying cash and the discounts available -- as well as the many, many offsite options -- is something every prospective buyer should do.

I do get confused with all the wholesale endorsement of resale first, last, and always.

Keep in mind that those endorsements apply only if your primary consideration in purchasing DVC is the cost/benefit question.

When you can buy many DVC contracts for half (or less) the cost of purchasing direct, it is very difficult to make a sensible financial argument for buying direct...no matter how much some think the whole rest of the world is out of step.

But there are several legitimate non-financial reasons for buying direct -- small contract, new resort, etc. You have to look at the whole picture, not just the money.

 

[ELMC]

Thanks for the clarification
I do get confused with all the wholesale endorsement of resale first, last, and always.

If that is the message you are getting from the advice on here then that is a problem. I also believe that this is an unfair characterization of the information that we provide to prospective buyers.

 

[k3chantal]

If that is the message you are getting from the advice on here then that is a problem. I also believe that this is an unfair characterization of the information that we provide to prospective buyers.

It is how the advice is taken. Anyone reading any of these threads comes away with the feeling that if you buy direct, it is never a good idea and that you should not do it.

 

[ELMC]

I wouldn't mention it cause I don't believe it to be true , due to long time friends that own a lot of DVC points and told me they never didn't get the reservation they wanted . These are multiple people I trust more then anyone .

Ok, so here's one of the problems that you get criticized for. Nobody is suggesting that your friends are lying to you. But you are making sweeping generalizations based on the input from two or three people. That's two or three individuals out of hundreds of thousands of owners. The sample size is so incredibly small that their experience provides you will little actual information about how successful the public at large will be with certain strategies. So you need to qualify statements you make based on this information, and not just put it out there as a universal truth because it applies to two guys you know. I suspect that if you were to do that, you would receive much less pushback.

 

[ELMC]

It is how the advice is taken. Anyone reading any of these threads comes away with the feeling that if you buy direct, it is never a good idea and that you should not do it.

I appreciate your saying that, but I have such a hard time believing that is the case. I really feel that so many attempts are made to qualify statements about resale vs. direct (such as the ones Jim made above) that if someone is reading without a bias they will get the message that it is not a cut and dry situation. I myself have said on many, many occasions that from a financial standpoint there are few, if any reasons to buy direct. But I typically follow it up with "but there's more to life than just money" which I think opens the door for a whole lot of reasons to buy direct if it suits someone.

I do agree that a lot of direct buyers feel insulted by the advice given on here, but that is something beyond our control. In my experience I have purchased a timeshare direct at a less than opportune time. Yes I still have it and yes I had many wonderful vacations, but I've had to write it off mentally as a bad purchase because it is one that I probably shouldn't have made. I can say that and have it not be offensive because it's about myself. When it comes to others, all I can do is ask the question as to whether or not they think they are doing the same thing, or are they making a purchase that will be wise in hindsight. I think it's fair game to try to pay it forward in these cases, even if there is the possibility that people will take offense. The problem is, I may ask the question of one prospective buyer, but anyone else who purchased direct thinks I'm talking about them and insulting them. I think that's part of the problem. As much as it could be alleviated by my qualifying my comments a bit more, I think it could also be helped by direct buyers not taking things so personally.

One last thing, I think if someone stumbles upon a specific debate on direct vs. resale it might be possible to get the impression you suggest. I think that is because the main focus of the debate is financial. Most of the other matters have already been agreed upon. I often find myself involved in debates where people try to manipulate the numbers in order to make direct look better than it actually is from a financial standpoint. In times like these it does get a bit heated, and the bigger message that I'm trying to communicate might not come through. So I'll try to work on that and I'll even restate it again here.

There are many reasons to buy direct, and they are all specific to an individual person and their priorities. They can be based on fear of future restrictions, convenience, access to financing, access to a new resort, availability of other options, etc. Although I have varying levels of agreement with each of these criteria, I respect the fact that others disagree with me based on their personal priorities. Far be it for me to tell anyone what to do. But if you'll notice, I did not mention "financial advantages" as one of the reasons to buy direct, because in my opinion, they do not exist in the absolute (not even with small contracts, but that's a conversation for another day).

Thanks for your perspective, I always appreciate it.

 

[ELMC]

IMO that is kind of what this site does with these kind of posts its one sided . No sane direct buyer could put up with this kind of attacks .

I have to say, I don't see any attacks. I'm not sure why you feel that way, but nobody is attacking anybody.

Ill explain that every time I post anything pro direct I have to have 5 follow up post cause explaining the first post most times cause people miss read what I wrote .

If one person is misinterpreting what you say then it could be the fault of the reader. If many people are misinterpreting what you say, there is a chance that you are not clearly communicating your thoughts.

I know that we are on a discussion board , but often these discussions start in threads that have no relevance to the original topic . I stated that previously that i see no issue if the questions are asked .

Thread drift is a natural phenomenon on these boards. Although I think the DIS community does a better job controlling it than other message boards, as soon as someone responds to a post that is not the OP, it happens. But I still think that despite the drift, the ideas shared in these threads are logically connected in some way.

 

[DougEMG]

There are many reasons to buy direct, and they are all specific to an individual person and their priorities. They can be based on fear of future restrictions, convenience, access to financing, access to a new resort, availability of other options, etc.

Maybe we should just have a seperate threat that summarizes the advantages of each

Pros to Purchasing Direct:

- fast
- convenient
- no restrictions
- easy access to financing
- access to new resorts​

Pros to Resale Purchase:

- Price​

Probably wouldn't hurt to also include current direct pricing with average resale listing price.

One of the things you can see right away from the list is that resale's only advantage is price and that is real easy to talk about and model. Direct's advantage don't really have a financial component to them which means everyone has to put their own value on them making it hard to compare since everyone will value it differently.

 

[JimMIA]

It is how the advice is taken.

I think it is also how the advice is sometimes offered. Sometimes there is as much wanting to win as there is wanting to inform. And that's really not very helpful to anyone.

OTOH, sometimes it is important to correct misstatements of fact or illogical reasoning. Not that you're going to turn that other person around, but for the benefit of lurkers who don't realize what someone posted is just plain wrong or makes no sense.

I think there has to be a balance, and a realization that what is "right" for my family may not be "right" for someone else's.

 

[k3chantal]

I appreciate your saying that, but I have such a hard time believing that is the case. I really feel that so many attempts are made to qualify statements about resale vs. direct (such as the ones Jim made above) that if someone is reading without a bias they will get the message that it is not a cut and dry situation. I myself have said on many, many occasions that from a financial standpoint there are few, if any reasons to buy direct. But I typically follow it up with "but there's more to life than just money" which I think opens the door for a whole lot of reasons to buy direct if it suits someone.

I do agree that a lot of direct buyers feel insulted by the advice given on here, but that is something beyond our control. In my experience I have purchased a timeshare direct at a less than opportune time. Yes I still have it and yes I had many wonderful vacations, but I've had to write it off mentally as a bad purchase because it is one that I probably shouldn't have made. I can say that and have it not be offensive because it's about myself. When it comes to others, all I can do is ask the question as to whether or not they think they are doing the same thing, or are they making a purchase that will be wise in hindsight. I think it's fair game to try to pay it forward in these cases, even if there is the possibility that people will take offense. The problem is, I may ask the question of one prospective buyer, but anyone else who purchased direct thinks I'm talking about them and insulting them. I think that's part of the problem. As much as it could be alleviated by my qualifying my comments a bit more, I think it could also be helped by direct buyers not taking things so personally.

One last thing, I think if someone stumbles upon a specific debate on direct vs. resale it might be possible to get the impression you suggest. I think that is because the main focus of the debate is financial. Most of the other matters have already been agreed upon. I often find myself involved in debates where people try to manipulate the numbers in order to make direct look better than it actually is from a financial standpoint. In times like these it does get a bit heated, and the bigger message that I'm trying to communicate might not come through. So I'll try to work on that and I'll even restate it again here.

There are many reasons to buy direct, and they are all specific to an individual person and their priorities. They can be based on fear of future restrictions, convenience, access to financing, access to a new resort, availability of other options, etc. Although I have varying levels of agreement with each of these criteria, I respect the fact that others disagree with me based on their personal priorities. Far be it for me to tell anyone what to do. But if you'll notice, I did not mention "financial advantages" as one of the reasons to buy direct, because in my opinion, they do not exist in the absolute (not even with small contracts, but that's a conversation for another day).

Thanks for your perspective, I always appreciate it.

Perhaps, because the difference between the cost of direct/resale contracts obviously can't be argued with (or it can but it is non-sensical) for perspective DVC owners when deciding between direct and indirect points, price usually is the first question and therefore it gets the most 'airtime'. Thus, making it seem like the only factor that really matters (this is driven home by the frequent discussions about 'good use of points' or 'good value of using points'.

 

[DVC Mike]

There are pros and cons in life for almost anything we purchase, whether a timeshare, a car, jewelery, food, or a pair of shoes. People are different and will make their own choices based on their personal preferences and what is important (or what may be unimportant) to them.

I won't try to convince anyone that they should purchase DVC (or a car or a pair of shoes) just because it was a decision and a choice that worked for me. In the same vein, I wouldn't want anyone telling me I made a poor decision and I should have made the same choice they did (whether to buy or not, or how to buy).

However, this is a discussion board, and when people say they just bought DVC and are looking for feedback if they did the right thing, it's fair for others to give their opinion or advice on the matter.

Me, I just stick to the sidelines, happy with my decisions over the past several years of DVC purchases (30 to date), knowing they worked for me.

 

[BestDadEver]

Ok, so here's one of the problems that you get criticized for. Nobody is suggesting that your friends are lying to you. But you are making sweeping generalizations based on the input from two or three people. That's two or three individuals out of hundreds of thousands of owners. The sample size is so incredibly small that their experience provides you will little actual information about how successful the public at large will be with certain strategies. So you need to qualify statements you make based on this information, and not just put it out there as a universal truth because it applies to two guys you know. I suspect that if you were to do that, you would receive much less pushback.

Well it's more then 2 more like 5 and they have had many trips for a long time . There is something to be said for the fact that these people have gone on a lot of trips and always got what they wanted . In my personal limited experience of one reservation I got what I wanted an AKV room at 7 months . I am not using that experience to relay info cause its not a big enough sample size but my friend and his girlfriend have over 1000 DVC points and go 4 times a year , plus a few people my wife works with . I tend to take there opinions into high regard over some people on the Internet , where I often find unreasonable people that seem to never be satisfied . See omg this is taking to long threads

 

[Dean]

IMO, the endorsement of resale should be reserved for contracts over 100 points. IMO, the implication is hundreds of points are needed to enjoy DVC ownership.

My guess is for those who are mathematically gifted you are telling me that if I only need 100 pts each year that I am better to stay with buy cash/discounted packages - yes??

There are a few situations where direct makes sense ASSUMING that buying at all make sense. This would generally center around smaller contracts, I'd say 50 at max, resorts not available for a dramatic savings otherwise (VGF) and in some cases, to match UY. I do not believe that getting the points quickly or to enable one to finance are good enough to make direct a good choice. To use for exchange options is NEVER a good idea as a reason to buy based on current info.

Yes but talking them into buying resale is mean IMO lol jk

If anyone is convinced based on other people's posts alone, they have much larger problems than buying DVC. Everyone has to make their own decisions and they need information which they may or may not have and often don't know they need.

It is how the advice is taken. Anyone reading any of these threads comes away with the feeling that if you buy direct, it is never a good idea and that you should not do it.

Given that from a buyers standpoint, buying direct is only a good choice in limited circumstances, one would expect the info to be one sided.

 

[BestDadEver]

I have to say, I don't see any attacks. I'm not sure why you feel that way, but nobody is attacking anybody.



If one person is misinterpreting what you say then it could be the fault of the reader. If many people are misinterpreting what you say, there is a chance that you are not clearly communicating your thoughts.




Thread drift is a natural phenomenon on these boards. Although I think the DIS community does a better job controlling it than other message boards, as soon as someone responds to a post that is not the OP, it happens. But I still think that despite the drift, the ideas shared in these threads are logically connected in some way.

I am guessing you don't go to many different types of message boards . Most I frequent will not allow threads to derail this badly . I go to 5-6 with completely different subject almost daily .