Which breeds are good guard dogs but gentle enough to have around children

[Hutchy]

I was thinking the same thing. Staffordshire or Pit Bull Terrier can make wonderful family pets.

Two things the OP would have to consider:
Barking- Most of the other suggestions have been dogs that bark a lot. So if that's what you're looking for this would probably not be the right type of dog since most do not bark much. For me, that's a huge plus. Dogs that make a lot of noise drive me crazy and I would not have the patience for that at all. I suppose it's a "warning" but I would only want a verbal warning if there was a true danger, not barking at every person/thing that goes by. I have only ever heard my dog really bark twice and both were times that she felt we were being sufficiently threatened. That said, the bark/growl is very intimidating. (More so than much larger dogs I have been around.)

Also, not specific to this breed, but everyone should call their insurance company prior to bringing home any new dog. I had read through our policy and there was no mention of dogs, but I still made DH call before we adopted our dog. They provided us with the following list: "vicious dogs including Akitas, American Bulldogs, Beaucerons, Caucasian Mountain Dogs, Chows, Doberman Pinschers, German Shepherds, Great Danes, Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, Staffordshire Terriers, Wolf Hybrids, or any mix thereof" We had to change our insurance company and would never have imagined how difficult it was to find something that did not have any breed restrictions.

I second this about pit bulls. I have one and she is a huge baby. She would probably annoy any intruder more with her dramatic whining when they were too busy stealing our things to pet and love on her. Now we also have 2 min pins and a jack russel (a house full of old ornery women) and my littles will get after you long before my big girl. Kady is not a barker, she used to come to work with me regularly and the other dogs in the office would bark at the door but it was very rare for Kady to get up and bark, same thing at the house. If Kady gets up and runs to the door barking or goes out the dog door we actually take notice to see what has her attention.

As far as insurance I know State Farm does not have breed bans because they have enough sense to know a dog is a dog.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I wonder why that is. Ours will sometimes not recognize one of us either. It usually happens if he's woken up by us or if it's dark.

They could have a vision problem. Are they known for that?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

My parents used to breed Berners, and yes there can be health issues. However, any reputable breeder will do their best to make sure their lines are "clean". My parents had all their dogs hips checked, and even put in the contract, that the people purchasing a puppy, had to do the same. They keep records of the hips, and any time a dog from their line gets cancer (only 3 dogs in 23 litters, over 100 dogs) or some other disease. The breed does have a shorter life-span, as do most large breeds.

The problem is that it's not always the hips, as most people believe. It's the spine. Spinal arthritis causes degenerative myelopathy type symptoms, where inflammation causes the nerves to the rear end not to work anymore. My last two GSDs have been on wheels for this very reason, despite having parents with certified hips. It's actually why I have a small dog right now. It's just too painful to keep losing them that way. And very hard to take care of them when they become disabled. And yes, it's generally true of all large dogs, not just GSDs.

 

[3Gsandme]

A nice, large Labrador will have a very imposing bark. I wouldn't expect them to to go on the attack to protect you without considerable training, but they're big and loud and that's enough to deter people who will be deterred by that sort of thing. They are also wonderful family dogs who tend to like people and other pets.

 

[JoeA]

I travel frequently and wanted a large dog as a deterrent so we got a Leonberger. Wonderful breed and the most gentle dog we've ever had. But his bark will pop an ear drum when he's riled up! I'd take him over an alarm system any day. If somebody breaks in they know they have "x" amount of time to "grab and go" but with this big boy patrolling the house...I can easily see a thief going to the neighbors house instead of mine.

http://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/leonberger/

 

[katie01]

I wonder why that is. Ours will sometimes not recognize one of us either. It usually happens if he's woken up by us or if it's dark.

Really? That's so funny. My dog has also barked and/or looked really worried (circled around me staring) when I do something different with my hair, like if I have a hat on or my hair wrapped in a towel. In those cases it would almost seem to the dog relying MORE on vision, since she is so observant to anything looking different. Maybe their sense of smell isn't as good as some breeds, so they rely more on vision than smell? I'm just thinking of their pushed in faces and sometimes resulting breathing issues--maybe that could affect their sense of smell?

 

[katie01]

The problem is that it's not always the hips, as most people believe. It's the spine. Spinal arthritis causes degenerative myelopathy type symptoms, where inflammation causes the nerves to the rear end not to work anymore. My last two GSDs have been on wheels for this very reason, despite having parents with certified hips. It's actually why I have a small dog right now. It's just too painful to keep losing them that way. And very hard to take care of them when they become disabled. And yes, it's generally true of all large dogs, not just GSDs.

Oh I see, interesting. The neighbor did say the dog's spine looks twisted as she walks, she described the dog's gait as a "bunny hop". I am wondering though, in her dog's case, could it be spinal arthritis at such a young age? The dog is only 9 months old

 

[goofy !]

A nice, large Labrador will have a very imposing bark. I wouldn't expect them to to go on the attack to protect you without considerable training, but they're big and loud and that's enough to deter people who will be deterred by that sort of thing. They are also wonderful family dogs who tend to like people and other pets.

A good breeder will only breed for DM clear litters. Since it is a genetic disease, it is very easy to test for. You get a swab kit, swab the inside of your dog's cheek, fill in the circle on the test paper with the swab, cover it and send it to the Mayo clinic with $65. You get DNA results back pretty quickly.

The OFA registry keeps track of the DNA results so it is easy to breed to get DM clear litters.

My girl is a DM carrier. Her last litter, we bred her to a DM clear dog. Since DM is recessive, the entire litter is either clear or carriers. None will develop the disease, which you are right, is terrible. Since it happens later in life, without the DNA test you will not know if you are breeding DM positive dogs and producing puppies that will develop this disease later on. By the time a dog shows signs, they are well beyond breeding age.

This is a relatively new screening available, so the Berner breeder above probably did not have access to it. I commend her parents for not only screening hips and elbows of the breeding dogs, but also keeping track of the litters.

Yet another reason to seek out a good breeder that does all the health testing and is involved enough to know the advances in breeding science. With the test being so easy and cheap, there is no reason anybody should ever breed a DM positive dog.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Oh I see, interesting. The neighbor did say the dog's spine looks twisted as she walks, she described the dog's gait as a "bunny hop". I am wondering though, in her dog's case, could it be spinal arthritis at such a young age? The dog is only 9 months old

That actually sounds more like a hip issue.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

A good breeder will only breed for DM clear litters. Since it is a genetic disease, it is very easy to test for. You get a swab kit, swab the inside of your dog's cheek, fill in the circle on the test paper with the swab, cover it and send it to the Mayo clinic with $65. You get DNA results back pretty quickly.

The OFA registry keeps track of the DNA results so it is easy to breed to get DM clear litters.

My girl is a DM carrier. Her last litter, we bred her to a DM clear dog. Since DM is recessive, the entire litter is either clear or carriers. None will develop the disease, which you are right, is terrible. And since it happens later in life, without the DNA test you will not know if you are breeding DM positive dogs and producing puppies that will develop this disease later on. By the time a dog shows signs, they are well beyond breeding age.

This is a relatively new screening available, so the Berner breeder above probably did not have access to it. I commend her parents for not only screening hips and elbows of the breeding dogs, but also keeping track of the litters.

Yet another reason to seek out a good breeder that does all the health testing and is involved enough to know the advances in breeding science. I am not a breeder, but my dog was bred by her breeder who is very concerned with breeding healthy litters.

Good info. I just think that with any dog, as a living being, just like with people, you can't predict everything with 100% certainty, even if you try. Heck, I chose a wonderful breeder for my Cairn, and he's already been positive for Lyme Disease, had a cast on for a month, and we just this week found a big scratch on him that looked infected (probably from briars) so even though his lineage is great we've still been at the vet's fairly often, lol. Fortunately he's easier to pick up than a GSD is, and I love not having dog hairs everywhere. (But I do miss my GSD and I hope to have another some day, maybe once I get this college thing squared away!)

 

[goofy !]

Good info. I just think that with any dog, as a living being, just like with people, you can't predict everything with 100% certainty, even if you try. Heck, I chose a wonderful breeder for my Cairn, and he's already been positive for Lyme Disease, had a cast on for a month, and we just this week found a big scratch on him that looked infected (probably from briars) so even though his lineage is great we've still been at the vet's fairly often, lol. Fortunately he's easier to pick up than a GSD is, and I love not having dog hairs everywhere. (But I do miss my GSD and I hope to have another some day, maybe once I get this college thing squared away!)

I agree, you can't test for everything. But DM you can and you can guarantee your puppies will not develop it.

Although I am not sure how a tick borne disease or getting a scratch while playing have anything to do with testing. Those vet bills are unfortunately what comes with being the guardian of an animal that loves the outside

Your Cairn is adorable

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I agree, you can't test for everything. But DM you can and you can guarantee your puppies will not develop it.

Although I am not sure how a tick borne disease or getting a scratch while playing have anything to do with testing. Those vet bills are unfortunately what comes with being the guardian of an animal that loves the outside

Your Cairn is adorable

Thank you. They don't really. I was just thinking out loud about costs of care with various pet problems, medical and otherwise.

 

[mamacatnv]

I also disagree that just an alarm system is better than a dog. Law Enforcement continuously says a barking dog is one of the best deterrents. Thieves are opportunistic and are going to pick the house with the best chance of not being caught. If your house has a barking dog and the one down the street is silent, unless they are specifically targeting you, a thief is going to pick the silent house. The best scenario is a dog and a security system.

We have livestock guardian dogs. This is a group of dogs that have been bred to protect their flock from predators. In absence of a flock, their family becomes their flock. So they protect their flock (family) with their life and their flock includes any other pets in the house. So, they won't become aggressive with the children because they are their charges.

They also realize what their propery is so off property, as long as they are well socialized, they are sweethearts because they are off the job.

However, most of the breeds in this category are not for rookie dog owners. An owner needs to be experienced enough to be able to be a firm owner, know how to thoroughly socialize, and be consistent with obedience training. Otherwise you have a very dangerous dog.

Cons: They bark a lot. That is their job.

They are horrible obedience dogs because they were bred to think for themselves so may have other decisions when asked to do something. You always, always have to keep this in mind and see the world through your dogs eyes. That trash man may be taking away trash but your dog may see it as stealing your possessions. Some of the tougher breeds in the group have been known to go through plate glass windows to protect their flock. That is also the reason you will never see a LGD as a police dog. Even though they are excellent guardian dogs, you cannot trust that they will always follow your commands. So those German Shepherds you see that can be called off an attack command at any point, not so with a LGD. Their mindset would be that this is a bad guy and my handler is not as smart as me so I am making the decision to get this guy. In that same vein, they should never be off leash. If you want a hiking dog that you can take off leash, the LGD is not it.

Again, looking at the world through your dog's eyes, you have to anticipate reactions. When my boys were little, we crated the dogs when they had friends over. A rousing game of tackle football in the backyard could be interpreted as somebody attacking their boy and their sole job is to protect their boy which would not be good for the visitor.

They don't play. The prey drive has been bred out of them so they won't fetch, play frisbee or really have much interest in toys unless it is to be attacked and chewed up.

They are aloof with strangers. They are affectionate with their family but aloof with people they don't know. However unlike the traditional guard dog, if properly introduced, the will allow your vusitors into the flock.

They absolutely do not have the typical need to please their owner. They are independent, more cat like. So you will not get the clingy, needy dog.

They are an unusual group of dogs, especially the more primitive breeds in the group. I could never own a typical dog anymore.

Some of the breeds in the LGD group are the Kuvasz, Komondor, Maremma, Tibetan Mastiff, and a few more. We have one of the tougher breeds, but the one I would recommend for a beginner is the Great Pyrenees. They are the mildest of the LGDs and have been bred enough for city life that you have the benefits of the LGD temperament with enough companion behavior to make it a good family fit.

But make sure you get one from a breeder that follows the the ethics of the national breed club. They are a favorite of puppy mills and can have bad temperaments and health issues when not bred with experience.

Google Livestock Guardian Dogs. They are a very interesting subset of dogs. They make incredible family guardians and companions.

We have a 130# Great Pyrenees who is 4 years old. He is the biggest baby you have ever met, or so we thought until the time a stranger came to our home and I opened the door and he came in. Our marshmallow charged, barking, snarling the whole nine yards. As soon as I said no, my dog immediately stopped and sat at my side calmly. I was stunned. However, he did exactly what he was supposed to do.

Our Pyr is our first ever dog but we were very well educated on the breed and their behaviors. My biggest issue is when non-LGD people come into my home and recite their dog speak as to what we should/should not do with our dog. I try not to roll my eyes. These are not typical dogs, they don't have a pack/alpha mentality.

My dog does not come to me when I call him, unless he wants to or I have a treat (very food driven). He does not play anything but he devours raw bones by the pound. He loves us, his flock, along with our cats and has no issues at the dog park or when out for his daily walk. He is rarely off lease as LGD are wanderers but has excellent leash manners.

He's huge, hairy and very very loud. His bark can rattle the windows (I'm not kidding)

 

[goofy !]

I know exactly what you mean about non-LGD people. We have had LGD's for going on 20 years (koms.) Sometimes I think they should be their own sub species.

 

[goofy !]

It is hard to describe our dogs to people who aren't familiar with LGD's. But once you have one, you can never go back.

My son has had LGD's since he was a baby. Because of that he will not have a regular dog. His fiance is not fond of the cords of our dogs because she wants a fluffy dog. So they are going to get a Pyr puppy.

 

[katie01]

We have a 130# Great Pyrenees who is 4 years old. He is the biggest baby you have ever met, or so we thought until the time a stranger came to our home and I opened the door and he came in. Our marshmallow charged, barking, snarling the whole nine yards. As soon as I said no, my dog immediately stopped and sat at my side calmly. I was stunned. However, he did exactly what he was supposed to do.

Our Pyr is our first ever dog but we were very well educated on the breed and their behaviors. My biggest issue is when non-LGD people come into my home and recite their dog speak as to what we should/should not do with our dog. I try not to roll my eyes. These are not typical dogs, they don't have a pack/alpha mentality.

My dog does not come to me when I call him, unless he wants to or I have a treat (very food driven). He does not play anything but he devours raw bones by the pound. He loves us, his flock, along with our cats and has no issues at the dog park or when out for his daily walk. He is rarely off lease as LGD are wanderers but has excellent leash manners.

He's huge, hairy and very very loud. His bark can rattle the windows (I'm not kidding)

I worked at a dog kennel in college. I don't remember all of the dogs, but there were three I clearly remember who made an impression on me. The other two I won't mention because I don't want to malign the breeds in case anyone here owns them (the impressions were not good ones lol) but the third was a Great Pyrenees. He was such a gentle big guy, and there was something almost human about the way he would look at me when I'd come over to feed him or clean his run. At the time I thought I *had* to have a Great Pyrenees later on in my life when I was able to get a dog. Obviously I didn't go that route with our current dog, we went small because it seemed more practical and easier for traveling. As I said though when I started the thread, I've since thought it would be nice to have a second dog that would be more intimidating to potential intruders. I just don't know if we could handle a dog quite THAT big though lol. Not the personality, I mean the shedding, the cleaning up, and the need to board a dog that large because I don't think my in laws would be as welcoming as they are to our tiny shih Tzu mix when we visit.

Anyway, just had to say I can understand what you are saying about them not being like a typical dog. As I said, this one struck me as more human than canine.

 

[yoopermom]

Anyway, just had to say I can understand what you are saying about them not being like a typical dog. As I said, this one struck me as more human than canine.

Pyrs are so interesting, aren't they? I wouldn't worry so much about the size (working bloodlines can run smaller than show ones, and females are definitely smaller than males). I'm sure someone with more LGD experience than me will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pyrs that I've known are more vocal than some of the other LGD breeds, not in a hound-y "bark bark bark" kind of way, but more of a "I'm here guarding my flock, you go away" kind of bark. If you think about it, they had to have the ability to think and make decisions for the good of their flock, without the input of the shepherd.

Really, any of the lists that show "terrible for obedience" breeds are often breeds that think for themselves, and therefore are good for protection, such as the LGD breeds.

Terri

 

[C&G'sMama]

I haven't read through the whole thread. Saint Bernard. But you have to be willing to deal with their bigness and shedding. They are great family dogs. And are gentle. But people are afraid of them because of their size. We used to live in a neighborhood where we had issues but everyone that didn't know the dog was afraid of him. He might've licked them to death. But we never had problems with either of our Saints. Our first Saint was 3 when our daughter was born. He was very good with her. Just a thought.

 

[goofy !]

Pyrs are so interesting, aren't they? I wouldn't worry so much about the size (working bloodlines can run smaller than show ones, and females are definitely smaller than males). I'm sure someone with more LGD experience than me will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pyrs that I've known are more vocal than some of the other LGD breeds, not in a hound-y "bark bark bark" kind of way, but more of a "I'm here guarding my flock, you go away" kind of bark. If you think about it, they had to have the ability to think and make decisions for the good of their flock, without the input of the shepherd.

Really, any of the lists that show "terrible for obedience" breeds are often breeds that think for themselves, and therefore are good for protection, such as the LGD breeds.

Terri

Pyrs can be vocal .

If you want an LGD another option is the Anatolian or the Kom. The Kom is hypoallergenic and supposedly does not shed. However, the white hair all over our black clothes begs to differ. But we don't have the major blowouts like other breeds. And bonus, you never brush a corded dog. Both are superb family and guardian dogs. But, and I can't stress this enough, since they are tougher breeds, it is imperative to work with a knowledgeable breeder. There are milder temperaments in every litter and a beginner wants one of them. You also need a mentor to help you become LGD savvy since they are different from other dogs. Our breeder has become a dear friend and it was so helpful to be able to pick her experienced brain when we first started out. Our first LGD was s Kom and our breeder started us out with an incredibly mellow puppy. We often joked that he was mord Golden than Kom. But he was just what we needed with little kids and our first LGD. Our latest has a more traditional kom temperament. I would not have been successful with her as a first LGD.

 

[mamacatnv]

I worked at a dog kennel in college. I don't remember all of the dogs, but there were three I clearly remember who made an impression on me. The other two I won't mention because I don't want to malign the breeds in case anyone here owns them (the impressions were not good ones lol) but the third was a Great Pyrenees. He was such a gentle big guy, and there was something almost human about the way he would look at me when I'd come over to feed him or clean his run. At the time I thought I *had* to have a Great Pyrenees later on in my life when I was able to get a dog. Obviously I didn't go that route with our current dog, we went small because it seemed more practical and easier for traveling. As I said though when I started the thread, I've since thought it would be nice to have a second dog that would be more intimidating to potential intruders. I just don't know if we could handle a dog quite THAT big though lol. Not the personality, I mean the shedding, the cleaning up, and the need to board a dog that large because I don't think my in laws would be as welcoming as they are to our tiny shih Tzu mix when we visit.

Anyway, just had to say I can understand what you are saying about them not being like a typical dog. As I said, this one struck me as more human than canine.

They do tend to look into your soul. Our Pyr is a ranch flunkie, we got him at 18 months of age from a rescue here in Central Texas. Since we got him we have become avid volunteers with the rescue. Central Texas is crawling with abandoned Pyrs due to all the ranching and rancher ignorance about how the breed works and learns to be a true LGD. We spent a lot of time working with him when we first got him to reinforce house manners, food aggression, leash manners etc. We take him everywhere we can, he loves to be with us.
Our vet suspects our Pyr may have a bit of Anatolian shepherd in him, I have a DNA kit just haven't sent it in.
We had never had a dog, I really didn't like dogs but this dog has stolen my heart, he is a mama's boy through and through.
We do deal with an extreme amount of shedding, I brush A LOT as well as vacuum and use sticky rollers. I have a mini van so taking him places is easy but its certainly a consideration if one has smaller vehicles.
My family and friends love my dog because he is so gentle and loving. Our neighbor has a toddler grandson and my dog is sooooo good with him.

He does bark but only when its warranted, I cannot even remember the last time he barked while in the house. He is a house dog and is in much more than he is out. Due to the extreme heat here, he stays in the majority of the time and we walk him at night after the sun has gone done.
The cool thing about Pyrs unlike many other larger dogs is he is lazy! We don't need to run him to work off energy. He doesn't eat a lot (about 2 cups a day plus 1 raw bone nightly) he does drink about a gallon of water a day and in the summer even more. He blows his coat twice a year and that's when my neighbors comment that it has snowed in Texas because his fur is all over the yard!

Pyrs are so interesting, aren't they? I wouldn't worry so much about the size (working bloodlines can run smaller than show ones, and females are definitely smaller than males). I'm sure someone with more LGD experience than me will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pyrs that I've known are more vocal than some of the other LGD breeds, not in a hound-y "bark bark bark" kind of way, but more of a "I'm here guarding my flock, you go away" kind of bark. If you think about it, they had to have the ability to think and make decisions for the good of their flock, without the input of the shepherd.

Really, any of the lists that show "terrible for obedience" breeds are often breeds that think for themselves, and therefore are good for protection, such as the LGD breeds.

Terri

Ours definitely thinks for himself, you can see him weighing his options. He can be a bit of a butthead at times in his stubbornness. Ours is on the small size for a male but they are solid dogs, beefy shoulders, wide hips etc so yes, while he weighs 130#'s he is not as "big" as say a great dane or even some of the mastiffs. Ours does not drool, but he does shed and shed and shed
My vet loves my dog, said to me one day after working with my dog "no worries, this dog does not have a bite in him but God help someone who enters your space"

My husband wanted a large dog, we had a young teen daughter and he wanted a dog that while with her would appear intimidating. This is a trait that can be hard to test. We have only seen him go into full blown you have violated my space twice and both times have been in the past year (he is now a fully matured male LGD)
One night a while back, I was walking our dog near our community mail boxes, a car pulled up and a man got out to go to the mailbox. My dog planted himself between me and the man, he did not bark or even snarl, but he was on full alert and would not let me move until I told him it was okay to continue.
When we go places, say a park or something, our dog will park himself nearby where he has full view of us as well as the surroundings, he will just sit there and keep watch over us. It truly is amazing how he knows his role.

Pyrs can be vocal .

If you want an LGD another option is the Anatolian or the Kom. The Kom is hypoallergenic and supposedly does not shed. However, the white hair all over our black clothes begs to differ. But we don't have the major blowouts like other breeds. And bonus, you never brush a corded dog. Both are superb family and guardian dogs. But, and I can't stress this enough, since they are tougher breeds, it is imperative to work with a knowledgeable breeder. There are milder temperaments in every litter and a beginner wants one of them. You also need a mentor to help you become LGD savvy since they are different from other dogs. Our breeder has become a dear friend and it was so helpful to be able to pick her experienced brain when we first started out. Our first LGD was s Kom and our breeder started us out with an incredibly mellow puppy. We often joked that he was mord Golden than Kom. But he was just what we needed with little kids and our first LGD. Our latest has a more traditional kom temperament. I would not have been successful with her as a first LGD.

I have heard that the Kuvac is also a good LGD option but I don't have any experience with one. I only know one person who has one and the dogs best friend is a chicken, literally, a chicken.
Pyrs can be very vocal - if one reads some of the stuff out there online about the big ranches that run LGD's, they have a ratio that escalates in aggression. The Pyrs are the early warning system, they will rarely attack, their defense is their ferocious bark and when 150 pounds of snarling black lined lips is alarmed, they really appear to be quite vicious.

Some say that Pyrs are nocturnal, we have not found that to be the case however, we do know that throughout the night, he changes his position from the side of my bed, to my DD's room, then to my DS's room and then into other areas of the house. He checks on everyone regularly. When I go to bed, our kitties are supposed to be inside and our dog knows it. If the toddler kitten has not made his curfew my LGD lets me know. He paces and whimpers at the door. Sometimes I will let him out and he will go wander the backyard, round up our toddler kitty and get him in the house, its hilarious. If the kids aren't home which is frequent, I make sure the bedroom doors are closed, that is his signal that they are gone and yes, I am aware the children are not home. On these nights he still roams but more so on our bedrooms side of the house. He moves from the living areas, to the hall outside my bedroom, to the side of my bed and then into my master bath.

Honestly, I really don't see us ever being owned by any other breed. We love our Pyr to pieces