Where is it written not to use a pool towel if you run out of towels?

[dianeschlicht]

LOL, decaf here too, but I do agree with Dean that it is totally a matter of integrity. I find fewer and fewer people are as honest as we would like them or expect them to be.

 

[Dean]

To add, it is absolutely (100% of the time) inappropriate for one member to ask another member to pay extra for something they will not use or benefit by, no matter how small the amount is. Which is different than a timeshare or system spreading appropriate costs across the membership, which is done all the time. A system has to decide things like the expected amenities (pool), costs vs benefit (valet) and costs to enforce any restrictions (valet now) and make the best OVERALL decisions for the membership.

 

[disneynutz]

I am of the belief that there is more to Disney's decisions than we will ever be told about. There is a reason other than cost for dropping the free Valet service. How many members really used it and what would be the true cost? Same with better room cleaning, what would it cost to do it right? If they needed to raise the dues by $.05 per point, times millions and millions of points you would think that there would be enough money to do things right and offer some extra benefits.

Do they keep the dues low so that Disney doesn't have to pay more dues on the points that they own?

I just don't get it.

Bill

 

[Dean]

I am of the belief that there is more to Disney's decisions than we will ever be told about. There is a reason other than cost for dropping the free Valet service. How many members really used it and what would be the true cost? Same with better room cleaning, what would it cost to do it right? If they needed to raise the dues by $.05 per point, times millions and millions of points you would think that there would be enough money to do things right and offer some extra benefits.

Do they keep the dues low so that Disney doesn't have to pay more dues on the points that they own?

I just don't get it.

Bill

With Valet it was easy. A large cost, no discount for the volume, a minority of the membership, often paid for by those not using the perk (only by those who owned at that resort) and easy to do pay to play with a minimal of hassle or cost to do so. IMO, saying "I'd be willing to pay extra for X" is an extremely poor starting point. The better starting point is to expect a certain quality of service (using housekeeping as an example) and making that expectation appropriately known to management and if by chance it does cost extra, they have the knowledge to know what it should cost and the expertise to balance that against dues. Throwing extra money at it as the main approach is essentially always a bad idea, schools are a great example of this type of failed philosophy.

As to why they (and we as the membership as well) are willing to accept routinely later check ins and questionable (at times) housekeeping is beyond me. I agree, I don't get it but as you hint, there may be other factors. Could it be that providing the service that is truly expected is so much more expensive that it's not worth it? I doubt it but that, ignorance of the situation and DVCMC profit are the only reasons I can think of they'd accept it as a routine. OTOH, I don't get knowing there are certain compromises like the room available after 4 pm issue and complaining here without making a formal complaint to DVC with specifics.

 

[NewDCLGuy]

To add, it is absolutely (100% of the time) inappropriate for one member to ask another member to pay extra for something they will not use or benefit by, no matter how small the amount is.

Now you've completely lost me. We all do this.

I take Disney transportation to the park. We require all members to pay for Disney transportation. Those people who will not use or benefit by Disney transportation have to pay part of their dues to subsidize those of us who do.

I never use the washers and driers. But I am asked to pay extra in my dues so that other members who do benefit from the washers and driers can use them without paying the full cost. That's just the way the system is.

If you want to make this about costs, the person who washes and dries their towels every day is probably costing me a more than the person who grabs extra towels from the pool. Neither bothers me. Costing me pennies a year just isn't worth getting upset over.

Now if people want to make it a moral issue, and look down on pool-towel-takers for their lack of virtue, that's their business. But I'll give my honest opinion that such judgementalism doesn't do any good and that it's a lot easier to enjoy life if you let such things go.

 

[Chuck S]

Now you've completely lost me. We all do this.

I take Disney transportation to the park. We require all members to pay for Disney transportation. Those people who will not use or benefit by Disney transportation have to pay part of their dues to subsidize those of us who do.

I never use the washers and driers. But I am asked to pay extra in my dues so that other members who do benefit from the washers and driers can use them without paying the full cost. That's just the way the system is.

If you want to make this about costs, the person who washes and dries their towels every day is probably costing me a more than the person who grabs extra towels from the pool. Neither bothers me. Costing me pennies a year just isn't worth getting upset over.

Now if people want to make it a moral issue, and look down on pool-towel-takers for their lack of virtue, that's their business. But I'll give my honest opinion that such judgementalism doesn't do any good and that it's a lot easier to enjoy life if you let such things go.

Pennies can quickly add up to dollars. For instance, if everyone staying at OKW took 1 pool towel, the resort would need a few thousand extra towels.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Now you've completely lost me. We all do this.

I take Disney transportation to the park. We require all members to pay for Disney transportation. Those people who will not use or benefit by Disney transportation have to pay part of their dues to subsidize those of us who do.

I never use the washers and driers. But I am asked to pay extra in my dues so that other members who do benefit from the washers and driers can use them without paying the full cost. That's just the way the system is.

If you want to make this about costs, the person who washes and dries their towels every day is probably costing me a more than the person who grabs extra towels from the pool. Neither bothers me. Costing me pennies a year just isn't worth getting upset over.

Now if people want to make it a moral issue, and look down on pool-towel-takers for their lack of virtue, that's their business. But I'll give my honest opinion that such judgementalism doesn't do any good and that it's a lot easier to enjoy life if you let such things go.

I think there is a difference in your analogy that makes it not really comparable.

Disney transportation and washers and dryers are not illicit activities. Taking pool towels back to your room to avoid the $6 towel pak fee is. Some people may feel that they don't want to spend "pennies" in order to save others $6.

Deeming other posters on the DIS here to be judgemental in their postings is
veering off topic. Let's keep the discussion to the topic at hand of "Using Pool Towels if You Run Out of Towels" please.

We can be respectful and continue the discussion here. If it takes a turn for the worse, we will have to unfortunately close it, however. Thanks everyone!

 

[Dean]

Now you've completely lost me. We all do this.

I take Disney transportation to the park. We require all members to pay for Disney transportation. Those people who will not use or benefit by Disney transportation have to pay part of their dues to subsidize those of us who do.

I never use the washers and driers. But I am asked to pay extra in my dues so that other members who do benefit from the washers and driers can use them without paying the full cost. That's just the way the system is.

If you want to make this about costs, the person who washes and dries their towels every day is probably costing me a more than the person who grabs extra towels from the pool. Neither bothers me. Costing me pennies a year just isn't worth getting upset over.

Now if people want to make it a moral issue, and look down on pool-towel-takers for their lack of virtue, that's their business. But I'll give my honest opinion that such judgementalism doesn't do any good and that it's a lot easier to enjoy life if you let such things go.

You did miss it. There is a big difference between you asking other members to pay for your usage and taking advantage of the options and decisions made by the management company OR Disney in general. The only example I can think of recently where this was an issue is the valet parking question. Those complaining were essentially asking others to subsidize their usage where had DVC decided to pay for it, they would merely have been using the options available to them. A key and very important difference. We all pay for things we don't use or don't use as much but we realize that the management company has deemed those items worthy along the lines I posted above.

It's not really about what something costs as much as it is about the decisions that are made by management as to what costs are reasonable to be shared and which ones are not.. In this case the decision is to have pool towels for the pool and other towels for the room. In addition, management has decided to charge for extra towels packs. You then have some people stealing pool towels for the purpose of avoiding those extra charges. That's where the petty lies, IMO. If you can't or won't follow those rules and are willing to sell yourself for $6, that's where the petty lies.

The problem with pennies here and pennies there is that it adds up to dollars. Likely around $1 per point for optional items when all is said and done.

As for morals, yes I do see specifically and purposefully taking an armload of clean towels for the purpose of avoiding a small charge as a definition of one's character. If that's being petty overly judgmental, so be it. I also judge that group (as a group) as more likely to take those towels and other items home with them and to be more likely to cause damages no differently than I judge people who break into houses to steal things. I'm reminded of the story where a guy solicited a lady for $1 Million and she said OK. Then he said, how about $50 to which she responded "what do you think I am" and he replied "we have already established that, we're merely haggling over the price".

 

[simmons_m]

I understand the ebb and flow of perks, what surprises me are the refurbishments. I would think that volume pricing would allow DVD to furnish the villas similarly to the rooms in the general resort areas. i.e BWV vs BWI, however, based othe pictures the furnishings on the inn side look much nicer.

 

[Dean]

I understand the ebb and flow of perks, what surprises me are the refurbishments. I would think that volume pricing would allow DVD to furnish the villas similarly to the rooms in the general resort areas. i.e BWV vs BWI, however, based othe pictures the furnishings on the inn side look much nicer.

I think part of the problem is that unlike most timeshares, DVC does not have a set schedule for refurbishment. Normally the best timeshares use a 5/10 year cycle with soft goods every 5 years and hard goods every 10 years. Lessor ones tend to do less. That would mean that OKW should be finishing it's second complete redo to stay up to snuff. The most ambitious resort I Know of completely redo's the rooms every 4 years. That resort doesn't use a reserve fund that is built up over a few years but simply divides up the costs and send the then owners their portion of the bill every four years. In the last few years timeshares have realized that doing a phased redo over several years is a LOT more expensive than doing it all at once (or as nearly so as possible). Obviously you can't just close down the entire place at one time so there needs to be a balance.

 

[Disney Dad Canada]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I've read my fair share of "pool towels", "free" parking, doubling up ADRs threads this week to make my freaking head spin.

Costs aside (and I know that's a big reason for this, so don't start), why on earth do people feel they need a freaking sign or something in writing for everything? It's called EMPATHY people, look it up in the dictionary.

Whether it's the towels, doubling ADRs, using refillable mugs from the last trip, sure you CAN do it, but by skirting the rules, written down or implied, you are saying to others "to heck with everyone else, I'm the only one that matters". Seems like there are a ton of people that can spout off every "right" they have, but know nothing about their responsibilities, as a WDW guest, or even more so, as a parent.

There will always be people that think that just because they CAN do something that isn't quite against the rules kinda sorta, that they somehow are getting something for nothing. Please, don't be one of "those" people. And for the rest of us, you can only talk to "these" people so much. Most will understand, some will not. I've stopped trying to change people long ago. Just lead by example is my policy.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Disney Dad Canada THANK YOU!!! Rights and responsibilities....GREAT answers!

 

[NewDCLGuy]

I think there is a difference in your analogy that makes it not really comparable.

I wasn't saying they were comparable. I was disagreeing with Dean's statement that it is "it is absolutely (100% of the time) inappropriate for one member to ask another member to pay extra for something they will not use or benefit by."

I believe it is sometimes appropriate to ask others to share in costs for things the others won't benefit from. Transportation and washers/driers being examples.

 

[Dean]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I've read my fair share of "pool towels", "free" parking, doubling up ADRs threads this week to make my freaking head spin.

Costs aside (and I know that's a big reason for this, so don't start), why on earth do people feel they need a freaking sign or something in writing for everything? It's called EMPATHY people, look it up in the dictionary.

Whether it's the towels, doubling ADRs, using refillable mugs from the last trip, sure you CAN do it, but by skirting the rules, written down or implied, you are saying to others "to heck with everyone else, I'm the only one that matters". Seems like there are a ton of people that can spout off every "right" they have, but know nothing about their responsibilities, as a WDW guest, or even more so, as a parent.

There will always be people that think that just because they CAN do something that isn't quite against the rules kinda sorta, that they somehow are getting something for nothing. Please, don't be one of "those" people. And for the rest of us, you can only talk to "these" people so much. Most will understand, some will not. I've stopped trying to change people long ago. Just lead by example is my policy.

A good post but I'd suggest there is a line to be drawn between some of your examples. Some have direct costs, some are technically against the rules even if they are not well noticed and some are grey areas. The ones that have formal rules, even if CM themselves suggest they be violated, are the easy ones. Many of the others truly do have shades of gray. Include the walking of reservations with that group, it's within the rules and is technically allowed but IMO, it should not be.

I wasn't saying they were comparable. I was disagreeing with Dean's statement that it is "it is absolutely (100% of the time) inappropriate for one member to ask another member to pay extra for something they will not use or benefit by."

I believe it is sometimes appropriate to ask others to share in costs for things the others won't benefit from. Transportation and washers/driers being examples.

No, the statement is correct as written. It is inappropriate for one member to ask another to pay for their costs. It is very appropriate to ask the system for options/benefits that may be shared by others. I realize the end result may be the same. To be honest, it's no different than panhandling for the group specified.

 

[DVCPAT]

I am of the belief that there is more to Disney's decisions than we will ever be told about. There is a reason other than cost for dropping the free Valet service. How many members really used it and what would be the true cost? Same with better room cleaning, what would it cost to do it right? If they needed to raise the dues by $.05 per point, times millions and millions of points you would think that there would be enough money to do things right and offer some extra benefits.

Do they keep the dues low so that Disney doesn't have to pay more dues on the points that they own?

I just don't get it.

Bill

I think the initial reason Disney gave DVC members free valet was to offer them a convenient incentive to visit deluxe resorts for dining and shopping. Lets be honest, the on-site restaurant food quality and the parking location are not worth the price or hike to dine on-site.

The dining plan came along and flooded restaurant occupancy, which eliminated Disney’s incentive to keep people with vehicles dining on-site. The valet change has saved me money in tips and dining. I’ve also stopped using bell services, which has saved me more money in tips.

 

[d-r]

I drive