Where do you stand on this?

[asta]

no attack here-and as the parent of an asd kid I think this type of request/thinking is WAY OUT OF LINE. if my son had an issue related to his autism (or any condition) where he posed a threat/danger being in line w/other people then it's MY responsibility to ensure the safety of others by seeing if the issue could be addressed through his therapies, BUT absent being able to successfully handle it that way I would not be putting him into situations endangering others.

my son attends individual and group therapy-one of the key areas in group is learning about and practicing appropriate public/private socialization and interaction. we purposely do activities and outings to help the kids (and parents) put into practice the techniques they've/we've learned-and it allows both the kids and their parents (who attend during the same time a parent support group) to figure out if certain situations/activities simply will not work short or long term given the challenges an individual kid has. we have some kids/parents who have been largely isolated from doing anything outside their homes but b/c of this experience it's opened their world to being able to do things-on the flip side, we have kids/parents who through trial and error have come to realize that their asd challenges/symptoms simply pose too great a risk to themselves/others if they try to do certain activities.

I appreciate the multitude of accommodations that are available for my son-many WAY beyond the letter and spirit of the ADA and non discriminatory legislations, but no way do I feel that my child's needs/wants for entertainment entitle him to preferential treatment (which is what I perceive line skipping as).

Great post. This seems like the way to achieve much more success in life and dealing with all aspects. Thank you.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I can't help but wonder if the young lady calmed down once she realized she was sort of in trouble.

We have an ASD kid in the family, too, and he was indulged, as this girl appears to be. But once the shoot hit the fan, he suddenly knew how to behave.

I so respect you parents here who don't play into that. I know it's not easy.

 

[Andtototoo]

Seriously? If hot food is THAT important to her daughter, she needs to carry with her a thermos of food that is kept "steaming" hot. There are such things available.

She didn't "ask" nicely. She threatened that unless things were done her way, bad things were going to happen.

On MANY domestic flights, there is simply not hot food available for ANYONE, even those in first class. What would have happened then? Or, as someone said up thread, what if all the meals had been (gasp) eaten by the first class passengers, and there was nothing left? Would she be suing because the airline didn't stock hot food for her snowflake?

I'm sorry, but this smacks of entitlement.

Absolutely. Or wishful thinking -- that whole "Secrets" mentality where if I wish for it hard enough, then it will come true!

Maybe if they've traveled as extensively as they've said and it's always gone exactly as planned (which I doubt, reallllllly hard), they've just started to believe that their lives were sprinkled with pixie dust and everything would always go their way or could be made to go their way.

Which is foolish in the extreme when it comes to travel.

In addition to the lack of hot food on domestic flights, the thing with travel (of any kind, but especially air travel) is that the best laid plans often fail.

You may have bought a first class fare with hot food, but then... the flight is delayed for hours but you're told to stay in the gate area because a replacement is due "any minute", or you get stuck on the tarmac, or you get stuck so long on the runway that your airplane has to get back in the line for de-icing AGAIN, or re-routed due to weather, or there is a mechanical problem (as happened to us returning from London last year, the landing gear wouldn't go back up and 1.5 hours into the flight we had to turn back to Heathrow, have an emergency landing complete with foam and fire trucks, deplane, but wait no, get back on the plane and wait and wait and wait... and that hot meal we were supposed to get? We got about 2am in the morning, 6 hours after it was supposed to be served and when we got to the US, we had missed our flight, the airport and the restaurants were closed and ... yeah, good times).

Or you may have planned to get from Point A to Point B in your own car and not planned on needing food, but then there is a massive accident and you end up stuck for 2 hours on the highway in blazing hot temps in August when the nearest exit is 22 miles away.

My point being is that traveling is fraught with misadventures and travelers with the extensive experience this family cites, should have been prepared for potential triggers and negative consequences.

 

[pigletgirl]

I know a fair number of parents with autistic kids who function at varying levels. Exactly one of them is placing all blame in United and jumping on the "this is discrimination" bandwagon. Most everyone else, like me, thinks it was a crappy day all around and everyone involved could have made better decisions, but at the end of the day no discrimination happened and no lawsuit should be occurring.

Here is an article by another mother of an autistic child that one posted on facebook today. It seems written before more details emerged, but still mostly reflects the majority feeling of the people I know who have a personal connection to the issue.

http://www.autisticglobetrotting.com/is-united-airlines-really-discriminating-against-autism.html

Perfectly said...
"I believe that the greater responsibility lies on our own shoulders. As parents to children with autism, we really need to start differentiating between accommodating ‘needs’ and ‘wants’, along with an understanding of how our own behavior impacts on our children. In this case the child needed hot food (which was supplied) but the girl wanted the First Class food. The mother, by causing the commotion and demanding the First Class food as well as referring to potential violent consequences to convince the crew to give it to her, is inadvertently teaching her child that this behavior is acceptable. What will stop this being mimicked or repeated in the future."

I hope this lawsuit doesn't get anywhere.

 

[cabanafrau]

A very long time ago on this site I was in a discussion with a mother who had asked for some tips about touring WDW with her autistic child. I do not remember anymore how she outlined what she expected his difficulties to be beyond recognizing it was likely to be very overstimulating for him. I could not understand why she was so intent on planning this trip knowing that barrier alone. She didn't sound like your typical poster who was hell bent on going because she really wanted to and intended to do so if that meant dragging her kid along despite the consequences to him so I asked her why. She was very nice and understood I wasn't pecking at her choices, merely wanted to understand her thinking and she told me she knew he wanted to visit, thought he would enjoy certain things very much and understood Disney made efforts to reach out to meet special needs in a way a lot of places didn't. She asked some specific questions about different attractions, the queue procedures and entry, and different areas and atmospheres in the parks to try and plan ahead for what known problems she should avoid.

I've thought about her a lot since then & wish I knew how her trip turned out. I really hope they had a good time. She sounded like the type of person I wish Disney could consult on accommodations. I have the hunch her ideas might have spent little to no time focused on being at the front of the line, but I bet she could have helped with some suggestions that make the parks work for quite a few people in ways far beyond what imagineering would know to dream up. Her child may well grow up some day and be able to voice or communicate certain things to Disney and other companies to help make positive changes. Don't overlook these are generally incredibly intelligent individuals with potential in areas I couldn't even begin pretending to understand.

I hope the voices of the best parents of these children begin to be heard over the voices of the self promoting, self entitled doofuses who wind up plastered all over the news and potentially cause some people to doubt the validity of the struggles or need for accommodations, or worst of all cause resentment. The more the average Jane or Joe begins to understand and become familiar and comfortable with asd issues the closer we might come to making more space at the table for these individuals and letting their gifts and potential fluorish.

 

[pigletgirl]

A very long time ago on this site I was in a discussion with a mother who had asked for some tips about touring WDW with her autistic child. I do not remember anymore how she outlined what she expected his difficulties to be beyond recognizing it was likely to be very overstimulating for him. I could not understand why she was so intent on planning this trip knowing that barrier alone. She didn't sound like your typical poster who was hell bent on going because she really wanted to and intended to do so if that meant dragging her kid along despite the consequences to him so I asked her why. She was very nice and understood I wasn't pecking at her choices, merely wanted to understand her thinking and she told me she knew he wanted to visit, thought he would enjoy certain things very much and understood Disney made efforts to reach out to meet special needs in a way a lot of places didn't. She asked some specific questions about different attractions, the queue procedures and entry, and different areas and atmospheres in the parks to try and plan ahead for what known problems she should avoid.

I've thought about her a lot since then & wish I knew how her trip turned out. I really hope they had a good time. She sounded like the type of person I wish Disney could consult on accommodations. I have the hunch her ideas might have spent little to no time focused on being at the front of the line, but I bet she could have helped with some suggestions that make the parks work for quite a few people in ways far beyond what imagineering would know to dream up. Her child may well grow up some day and be able to voice or communicate certain things to Disney and other companies to help make positive changes. Don't overlook these are generally incredibly intelligent individuals with potential in areas I couldn't even begin pretending to understand.

I hope the voices of the best parents of these children begin to be heard over the voices of the self promoting, self entitled doofuses who wind up plastered all over the news and potentially cause some people to doubt the validity of the struggles or need for accommodations, or worst of all cause resentment. The more the average Jane or Joe begins to understand and become familiar and comfortable with asd issues the closer we might come to making more space at the table for these individuals and letting their gifts and potential fluorish.

I know that every day life is a huge struggle between these kids and their families. I know that just going out and doing errands can be challenging not only on the child's behavior but also the stares and looks from others. The world does not accommodate these people at all. On the flip side, at what point do businesses allow such behavior to exist? Or do we now say, "this child is on the spectrum so we can let them behave however they want?" It seems to me that those with disabilities need stricter boundaries.

The pilots on United did what they saw fit. Maybe the next time they fly that mom can have things ready if her daughter were to have another tantrum.

 

[cabanafrau]

I know that every day life is a huge struggle between these kids and their families. I know that just going out and doing errands can be challenging not only on the child's behavior but also the stares and looks from others. The world does not accommodate these people at all. On the flip side, at what point do businesses allow such behavior to exist? Or do we now say, "this child is on the spectrum so we can let them behave however they want?" It seems to me that those with disabilities need stricter boundaries.

The pilots on United did what they saw fit. Maybe the next time they fly that mom can have things ready if her daughter were to have another tantrum.

I absolutely don't condone the behavior of the mother of the child in this United Airlines incident and haven't done so.

Unfortunately I think mothers like this one are potentially causing a lot of people to see the call for accommodations as self entitled nonsense looking for VIP treatment, etc. I suspect there are a great many ways that companies and society can be more accommodating of people with these issues that have nothing to do with special treatment and they just haven't been understood yet. I don't want this mother and those like her to become the face of acceptance and accommodation.

 

[Magic Band Defender]

Posts like the following are why situations like this incident cannot be honestly evaluated and discussed with fear of backlash and being attacked by other comments.



None of this as anything to do with the situation being discussed.

I specifically did not call out, quote, or reply to other posters and instead spoke to the tenor of many of the comments, both in this thread and recent threads about air travel with children and GAC at WDW. To say that I attacked anyone is seriously stretching the truth.

I obviously think my post had something to do with the situation being discussed, or I would not have posted it. You are of course welcome to your own opinion. I do not expect everyone to agree with me but I do not wish to argue, only explain. Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

 

[cabanafrau]

I specifically did not call out, quote, or reply to other posters and instead spoke to the tenor of many of the comments, both in this thread and recent threads about air travel with children and GAC at WDW. To say that I attacked anyone is seriously stretching the truth.

I obviously think my post had something to do with the situation being discussed, or I would not have posted it. You are of course welcome to your own opinion. I do not expect everyone to agree with me but I do not wish to argue, only explain. Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

I have seen not one hint in this thread indicating any call for locking away those with special needs and found your inference to the contrary very offputting, extremely so. Unfortunately that left very little vantage point for any information you might have wished to convey to be seen or heard. By its very definition mass transit must serve the masses. There is a limit to how much accommodation can be made to individual special needs in an imperfect world.

 

[Magic Band Defender]

Has a single poster said they do not like special needs children or that they do not want to fly with special needs children? I haven't seen that at all.

The mother may want to frame this as about discrimination against autistic individuals, but that does not seem to most of us reading it (including many of us with kids who have a diagnosis of autism) interpret the event at all.

It seems to have been a bad day for the girl and her family, things went wrong, they were less prepared than they could have been, they got frazzles, Mom USED HER DAUGHTER'S AUTISM AS A THREAT (which I take huge issue with; that feeds fear from those unfamiliar with it, instead of helping) and THAT seems to be the main issue at hand.

(edited to add, while I wish she had not done so, I can sympathize with the mom being worried/scared/embarrassed/tired etc and make that threat in flight and then regretting it later---I cannot sympathize with her making the threat in the heat of the moment and then following up afterwards acting as if that was perfectly reasonable, and the airline was discriminatory and filing a lawsuit. It does feel, at that point, like she is USING her child'S diagnosis and in a way that ultimately is harmful to her child and the wider community--much like, though not as bad, as the people suing Disney over the new structure for line accommodations that others are posting about).

Thank you for your reply. I do not wish to call out specific posters on this or any other thread, but some posters have commented that the family with a child on the spectrum should either not fly at all, fly only first class, or that this family would not be welcomed in first class because first class passengers expect a particular atmosphere.

IMHO, the mother did not use autism as a threat, but rather explained the reason for the request.

 

[gwynne]

Thank you for your reply. I do not wish to call out specific posters on this or any other thread, but some posters have commented that the family with a child on the spectrum should either not fly at all, fly only first class, or that this family would not be welcomed in first class because first class passengers expect a particular atmosphere.

IMHO, the mother did not use autism as a threat, but rather explained the reason for the request.

The mom made it clear that her teenager requires a steaming hot meal. Mom admits this is a long standing requirement, and something cold or room temperature would not be acceptable. If the teen didn't receive a hot meal, the mom expressed a concern to the flight attendant that the teen would have a meltdown with scratching behavior. Hot meals aren't served in coach on most domestic flights.
So....It's pretty clear that when traveling by air, the family should book first class and call to make sure there will be a hot meal on their flight.
And it is never acceptable to demand a FA deliver a good or service because if they don't someone might experience bodily harm.

And just to add... I really think you aren't reading our comments fully. Or, maybe you are unfamiliar with the basic rules and regulations of air travel. We are all responsible for making sure we comply with the rules and regulations while on an airplane. It's part of being good neighbors, as well as keeping the aircraft a safe place for all.

 

[JanaDee]

Thank you for your reply. I do not wish to call out specific posters on this or any other thread, but some posters have commented that the family with a child on the spectrum should either not fly at all, fly only first class, or that this family would not be welcomed in first class because first class passengers expect a particular atmosphere.

IMHO, the mother did not use autism as a threat, but rather explained the reason for the request.

If their specific demands can't be met on an airplane without inconveniencing hundreds of other people, then no, they shouldn't fly.

 

[Magic Band Defender]

And just to add... I really think you aren't reading our comments fully. Or, maybe you are unfamiliar with the basic rules and regulations of air travel. We are all responsible for making sure we comply with the rules and regulations while on an airplane. It's part of being good neighbors, as well as keeping the aircraft a safe place for all.

I am reading your comments fully. I am familiar with the basic rules and regulations of air travel. I do not believe asking a FA for a reasonable accommodation and explaining the reason behind the request is tantamount to not complying with the rules and regulations while on an airplane. I do not wish to argue with you or any other poster. Have a pleasant day.

 

[leebee]

My adult sister has cerebral palsy. She and her husband live in New Orleans; the rest of our family lives in Maine. Because of her physical conditions, air travel is very, very challenging. She can't travel alone, and issues with boarding, deplaning, navigating the airports, navigating boarding stairs, etc., make air travel terribly difficult, if not impossible, for her. She's learned that she cannot rely on the airlines to fulfill her needs, so when they want to come home to visit, they need to fly nonstop flights, preferably first class, or deal with the inevitable snafus. This limits her ability to travel due to costs and availability, but she knows that it's her responsibility to make choices that include the accommodations she needs. The mom in this situation knows her daughter; after all, she could clearly predict the consequences of not getting that hot meal. I still don't understand why she didn't prepare as much as she possibly could, so she could help her daughter get through the struggles of air travel.

 

[SMD]

Thank you for your reply. I do not wish to call out specific posters on this or any other thread, but some posters have commented that the family with a child on the spectrum should either not fly at all, fly only first class, or that this family would not be welcomed in first class because first class passengers expect a particular atmosphere.

IMHO, the mother did not use autism as a threat, but rather explained the reason for the request.

I believe people are saying that if the family wanted first class amenities then they should pay for first class. That's not the same as saying ASD children should only fly first class. I do believe that telling a flight attendant that lack of an acceptable hot meal on demand will lead to a meltdown or scratching would have the same result in first class or coach. There's another passenger that says that the incident occurred for an hour before the landing. How long should the crew wait for it to deescalate before deciding that it's gone on long enough or could potentially get worse?

 

[Magic Band Defender]

If their specific demands can't be met on an airplane without inconveniencing hundreds of other people, then no, they shouldn't fly.

Medical pre-boards and those requiring extra assistance do inconvenience hundreds of other people. Those who use ECV's on Disney transportation inconvenience and/or delay other guests. Just because a disability is invisible, doesn't mean it's any less of a disability. Thank you for your reply.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I am reading your comments fully. I am familiar with the basic rules and regulations of air travel. I do not believe asking a FA for a reasonable accommodation and explaining the reason behind the request is tantamount to not complying with the rules and regulations while on an airplane. I do not wish to argue with you or any other poster. Have a pleasant day.

But if the "reason for request" includes a statement that the person is going to start harming others, then it becomes a problem. Airline personnel HAVE to take "threats" seriously for the good of ALL the passengers in the air.

It also gets into the issue of what is REASONABLE accomodation. I don't think a piping hot meal on demand from first class is reasonable. What if there are no hot meals, then what? You don't think mom or dad should have prepared something themselves knowing there could be a problem in the air?

 

[sunshinehighway]

I specifically did not call out, quote, or reply to other posters and instead spoke to the tenor of many of the comments, both in this thread and recent threads about air travel with children and GAC at WDW. To say that I attacked anyone is seriously stretching the truth.

I obviously think my post had something to do with the situation being discussed, or I would not have posted it. You are of course welcome to your own opinion. I do not expect everyone to agree with me but I do not wish to argue, only explain. Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

I didn't say you attacked anyone specific. The tone of your post was kind of attacky though. Nobody was talking about any of the things you felt the need to bring up. Either you are accusing people of saying the things you decided to post about or you just decided to make totally random comments that have nothing to do with the ongoing discussion.

Thank you for your reply. I do not wish to call out specific posters on this or any other thread, but some posters have commented that the family with a child on the spectrum should either not fly at all, fly only first class, or that this family would not be welcomed in first class because first class passengers expect a particular atmosphere.

IMHO, the mother did not use autism as a threat, but rather explained the reason for the request.

To the bolded, Nope. You are twisting what people have said.

Nobody said the mother used Autism as a threat. How would that even be a threat?

Perhaps reading more carefully would help you better understand what people are saying you seem to be misinterpreting quite a bit.

 

[mjkacmom]

Thank you for your reply. I do not wish to call out specific posters on this or any other thread, but some posters have commented that the family with a child on the spectrum should either not fly at all, fly only first class, or that this family would not be welcomed in first class because first class passengers expect a particular atmosphere.

IMHO, the mother did not use autism as a threat, but rather explained the reason for the request.

Once she mentioned that her daughter might scratch someone, she changed the situation. Airlines put the safety of the passengers and crew as a priority, and I'm sure there is protocol the captain has to follow. I bet that if the mom left out that word, the situation would have ended differently. By the time that girl was eating and calm, the landing plan was already in place.

 

[JanaDee]

Medical pre-boards and those requiring extra assistance do inconvenience hundreds of other people. Those who use ECV's on Disney transportation inconvenience and/or delay other guests. Just because a disability is invisible, doesn't mean it's any less of a disability. Thank you for your reply.

I was referring to having to make an emergency landing and you know it. Stop pretending you're somehow above arguing with people about this subject, because that is exactly what you're doing.