Where do the other six come from?

Ronda93

DIS Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2000
Messages
2,064
I am preparing for my first full marathon. I did three halfs last year and decided I'm not getting any younger. Using MfM plan and today was the 20 miler. I finished, but the last few miles were tough. My pace averaged 12:22. I'd be really happy to see that for the race.

I haven't missed a training run. The wisdom is that the extra six are there. Are they?

Tell me about the extra six miles in your first marathon.

Ronda
 
I'm going to guess Marathoning for Mortals.

Ronda ~ I've only used the run/walk a half plan, but those 3 were there. One thing my running club coach has me doing combining with the plan is making the long runs more about TIME than DISTANCE. I jumped back into the half plan about 2/3 of the way through to get ready for my half tomorrow, and he had me do a 2.5 hour long run since my estimated finish time is somewhere around there (maybe 2:45) - I ended up run/walking 12.11 miles. So I think I'm going to do the time thing when I'm training for the full as well since that seems to get the miles in there.
 
What is the MfM plan?

I'm going to assume Marathoning for Mortals.

The last 10 in my first marathon were brutal but that was because I was way under trained. The last 6 in my second marathon (the January Disney) were also rough but mentally more than physically. It was the last 4 that were hard for me, basically the entrance to DHS to the end.

I will say though that the last 4 in the marathon weren't as draining (physically or mentally) as the last 4 of my 20 mile training runs so I think if you have survived that run you are prepared both mentally and physically for the full.

Good luck.
 

I found the extra miles by just doing them. Last January is when I started training and this past January I did the Goofy. DW start with me and did the Donald by also going out and completing a half just to experience the time and distance. She was very scared about being able to make it but once it was done she acknowledged her abilities.

BTW, we are both 60yos. and going for more.
 
Yes, Marathoning for Mortals. Thanks for the replies.

I leave for Disneyworld tomorrow. Can't think of a better place to start to taper.

Ronda
 
First marathon was Disney this past January. I had the same issue as the earlier poster...last 4 miles were brutal. But for me it was mostly physical.

I had followed Hal Higdon plan, and topped out at a 20 mile training run. None of my long distances were too bad...sure, I was tired, but no real problems. In the marathon I basically conked out at about mile 22...calves and thighs cramping pretty severely. Not sure why. First 20 miles averaged right around 10 minute pace (same as training pace), last 6 were 12+ minutes. If I do another marathon, not sure if that means I should be doing 22-24 mile runs, or if it was just a fluke thing on that day.
 
/
First marathon was Disney this past January. I had the same issue as the earlier poster...last 4 miles were brutal. But for me it was mostly physical.

I had followed Hal Higdon plan, and topped out at a 20 mile training run. None of my long distances were too bad...sure, I was tired, but no real problems. In the marathon I basically conked out at about mile 22...calves and thighs cramping pretty severely. Not sure why. First 20 miles averaged right around 10 minute pace (same as training pace), last 6 were 12+ minutes. If I do another marathon, not sure if that means I should be doing 22-24 mile runs, or if it was just a fluke thing on that day.

I'm gong to hazard a guess that the hill around mile 20.5 (I think...it was where the army Sargent was) might have had something to do with it. After running that far on a pretty flat course it could be hard to get your pace back up after that hill. I have no doubt that it was at least party to do with my last 4 being so tough even though I normally do hills and am usually relatively good at not letting them kill my pace.
 
It wasn't the last six in my first that were the problem - it was really only one stretch from about 24-25. My first marathon was small - small enough that I was in the top 15, and I don't think there were even 100 people signed up, including a fairly large cohort of walkers.

I had company for most of the race, but for various and sundry reasons, for that stretch I was alone, and could not see the finish line. Once I got close enough, I knew that the finish line was ahead, and it got easy (well, relatively so, anyway) again. On subsequent marathons, that's been the case - if I am well trained, there will be a rough patch in the last six miles, but a few minutes of pain and effort will put it behind me. If I am undertrained. . . then there is going to be a lot of pain out on the race course in store for me.
 
Ronda,

Here's what I learned from my whopping 2 marathons.....

For my first (Disney 2010), it was a struggle. Had some injuries beforehand, but did manage to get in my 1 20-miler. Started to feel crummy after 16 (not good!) but toughed it out. Gave myself "permission" to change my water/fuels stops to be more frequent. And I did--threw in an extra 1-2, I think. Since I didn't have a Garmin, I don't know what my splits looked like, but still finished with a pretty good time--and I didn't end up walking at all.

For my second, I was using a different plan (hoping to BQ). Ran 5 20-milers (yes, 5!) And this time I felt pretty good to 20. After that I was tired--not in pain, but just wanting to be done. And I finished. I felt like I had slowed way done in the end, but it turned out that I really hadn't. I was doing an 8:50 pace mostly and the worst of my miles was 9:10 or so. It sure FELT like I was crawling, but I wasn't.

I think on race day you will find whatever gear you need to get 'er done.

Maura
 
I am preparing for my first full marathon. I did three halfs last year and decided I'm not getting any younger. Using MfM plan and today was the 20 miler. I finished, but the last few miles were tough. My pace averaged 12:22. I'd be really happy to see that for the race.

I haven't missed a training run. The wisdom is that the extra six are there. Are they?

Tell me about the extra six miles in your first marathon.

Ronda

My first of 20 was not very pleasant either, but it was the teens that were brutal from on on course injury.

Unlike the pp, it is truly a mental thing. Yes, there is a physical component to it that was set up be proper nutrition and hydration in the first 20. If you failed on the nutrition and are coming into mile 20 with little glycogen reserve, then the last 6 are going to suck regardless of your training.

What I find is that my runners tend to be running a little low on glycogen, not enough for a wall but enough for the brain to really push back hard. Since its sole food supply is glycogen it will try to convince you to slow down regardless of how well you feel.

Weekend long runs are important, but hard weekday work is even more important. Speed and hill work will increase speed, but they increase strength even more. The further you can run below a muscle threshold, the more fat it burns and the less sugar it burns. This leaves your blood glycogen at a higher level, longer.

I would challenge you to run hills once a week and speed intervals once a week. The effort on these runs should be near threshold or just above on intervals, or a point where you cannot say but a word or two per breath. Keep to you training plan and you will feel much better.

I would also suggest that for those who cramped in the 2011 event that you may have been overdressed for the first half. Runners should feel a chill while waiting for the start. In corral C there were several running in long sleeves and pants as far as 9 miles into the race. While they were a little more comfortable they were also pushing out more liquids and salts as a result.

My answer may be contrary to what you were thinking but my experience shows that we tend ot not push first time marathoners too hard during the weekday runs. Its something that I think I am going to work on as a coach. The traditional thought is to get to the line healthy. I think that hill work and long runs will produce a more healthy runner.

Note that if my runner were not running very long coming into my groups, I would still possibly not push the weekday stuff too hard.... but I would also suggest the Galloway schedule up to 23 miles for the longer runs. I do think that once you have 1-3 marathons under your belt runs longer than 16-20 tend to bring in more injury opportunities than enhancing training.
 
Those 6 are there. IN YOUR HEAD. And also, in your pacing and nutrition. People tend to forget these parts of their preparation or mindset sometimes. Attitude and positive self-talk have a LOT to do with it. Making sure you have paced well (not too fast, for sure) is important. Don't get behind on nutrition---don't try to run a 5 or 6 hour marathon on one gel.

For me, too, it's all about breaking it up. Don't think 6 miles. Think one mile at a time, or if you Gallowalk, until the next walk break. until the next aid station. Heck, even to the next telephone pole or cone.

The mental game is huge. I wouldn't be still running and doing tri if I didn't tell myself I could.
Mind you, with my body and being prone to some injuries, I don't do marathons or Ironman tri with any run longer than 15-18 miles.
 
Interesting comments Coach. I think part of my problem may have been nutrition related. Secondarily, may have been less than stellar weekday work.

Being a fairly casual runner (and International-distance triathlete), I haven't really done much on the nutrition-side (yes, I use gels during longer training and events, but I assume there's more to it than that). Any recommendations to good guides/materials on nutrition?

Thanks.
 
Interesting comments Coach. I think part of my problem may have been nutrition related. Secondarily, may have been less than stellar weekday work.

Being a fairly casual runner (and International-distance triathlete), I haven't really done much on the nutrition-side (yes, I use gels during longer training and events, but I assume there's more to it than that). Any recommendations to good guides/materials on nutrition?

Thanks.

If you can read past the ads, Powerbar and Gatorade have a really good information base to learn from. From there it's all about trial, error and training. You also have a great starting point to learn from. Having one in the books is huge. Now on your long runs, especially those that are sucking, try different mental tricks to get yourself down the road. The tricks are all about breaking up the distance so running to the next intersection, streetlight, crack in the sidewalk (on reall bad days) work well. Running where others run can help you latch onto other runners. Jeff Galloway has a few pages on creating a rubber band and throwing it around a runner who is just in front of you or just passes you. Throwing that loop around them helps lock your thoughts onto something other than "just stop now". I hook up with the pair of hips just in front of me. Comes from cross country/off road running where one looks at the runner's hips for a sign of an issue on the track (i.e. hole). For me it just blanks out everything.

As a coach, I actually tap failing runners on the shoulder, speak a brief thought like stay strong, hang tough, etc and just keep on moving. In the last mile I often do the same and encourage folks to run with me to the finish. I had a huge group hug with a bunch of smelly strangers in 2010 just past the finish line. Still chat occasionally with the one. I found out how powerful this was a few years back when I just tapped a runner who I just knew would not finish in the AK parking lot. Told him to stay strong. He was hurting. At mile 19 I had an issue I needed to deal with and as soon as I thought stop, I felt a tap and heard paying it forward, keep on running. He had attached himself to me 2 miles earlier and was pulled along.
 




//










Save Up to 30% on Rooms at Walt Disney World!

Save up to 30% on rooms at select Disney Resorts Collection hotels when you stay 5 consecutive nights or longer in late summer and early fall. Plus, enjoy other savings for shorter stays.This offer is valid for stays most nights from August 1 to October 11, 2025.
CLICK HERE







New Posts







DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest

Back
Top