When you've run out of punishments..what now?

[Carly_Roach]

Yes, he sees a psychiatrist.

If a six year old is seeing a psychiatrist, then there's definitely something wrong with that six y/o's living situation. This may be a case where the child needs to be removed from that environment into one that will support and nourish him/her a little bit more. Obviously all the punishment in his/her short life has had a negative effect on him/her.

 

[Jennasis]

And there has been no change? Is he on any medication?

He's medicated. I actually thought things were better, but it seems not. I just don't know what advice I can offer her, so I just offer my shoulder to cry on.

 

[robinb]

I think the main problem with most of those punishments is that they are meant for older kids. And frankly, over the top for a 6-year old. And this is from the parent of a "spirited" child.

Oops ... I just noticed that his behaviors are really dangerous. That warrants professional medical help. Therapy and probably medication. That child is crying out for help.

 

[Bren's Mom]

Seems to me that either one of two things is possibly going on here:

Your friend is NOT effectively disciplining...meaning she might SAY she's doing all these things but isn't really. She might be giving in, or by her words/actions actually encouraging the bad behaviors and escalating them, which would happen if a child gets attention for only bad behavior and no or little attention for good behavior. Often parents of out of control kids will say they've done everything, when in fact they have done it but not FOLLOWED THROUGH which is totally required.

OR

The child has a mental illness that his psychiatrist is either not recognizing or not properly trained to deal with. Or it's a mental illness not generally seen in kids that young or that they don't normally diagnose that young.

In either case it sounds like a sad situation and I pray that the parents get some help for the whole family soon.

 

[happygirl]

If a six year old is seeing a psychiatrist, then there's definitely something wrong with that six y/o's living situation. This may be a case where the child needs to be removed from that environment into one that will support and nourish him/her a little bit more. Obviously all the punishment in his/her short life has had a negative effect on him/her.

I don't think we should put the blame on parents. Until we know more of what is going on

 

[luvmy3]

If a six year old is seeing a psychiatrist, then there's definitely something wrong with that six y/o's living situation. This may be a case where the child needs to be removed from that environment into one that will support and nourish him/her a little bit more. Obviously all the punishment in his/her short life has had a negative effect on him/her.

This is not always the case. My ds started to see a psychatrist for anxiety issues when he was 5, it had nothing to do with his living situation.
I think this case is different because of the behaviors involved, but sometimes people are just not wired the correct way, even little kids.

 

[Jennasis]

I don't think we should put the blame on parents. Until we know more of what is going on

No no...it's okay. ALL possibilities need to be put out there, otherwise how in the world can we fix the problem? If the caregivers have to bear some of the responsibility for the behavior then so be it. How else would it be fixed??

 

[happygirl]

No no...it's okay. ALL possibilities need to be put out there, otherwise how in the world can we fix the problem? If the caregivers have to bear some of the responsibility for the behavior then so be it. How else would it be fixed??

Okay what are the parents like?

 

[Judy in Texas]

If all else had failed, then I'd contact someone like Supernanny. Please don't laugh. She comes in and works with the kids AND the parents. There is a Click to Apply box and the bottom of this link. I wish them luck.
http://www.supernanny.com/

 

[Carly_Roach]

I don't think we should put the blame on parents. Until we know more of what is going on

He's six. The majority of his life has been spent with adults surrounding him.

I don't believe children are born evil; I don't care what the TV tells us. Children are born happy, well-adjusted and pretty much loving everything and everyone they see. It takes the rest of us to mess them up and some of us can do a really good job at that without ever intending to do so.

If this six year old is setting fires and acting out in dangerous ways, and the parent's response is to punish, punish, punish, and the kid is still behaving dangerously, then it's time to remove that child from the environment that fostered the situation in the first place.

At least for awhile to see if the behavior stops.

 

[Jennasis]

Okay what are the parents like?

Wonderful people. The "blame" situation is for them and their therapists to discern (not me and you). I refer to the overall notion that they may have some culpability as far as the kid and the behavioral issues are concerned when I responded to you. Certainly their role should be considered when they are in therapy. I don't think a blanket "the kid is a bad seed" should be thrown over the whole thing.

 

[bluesaturn]

If a six year old is seeing a psychiatrist, then there's definitely something wrong with that six y/o's living situation. This may be a case where the child needs to be removed from that environment into one that will support and nourish him/her a little bit more. Obviously all the punishment in his/her short life has had a negative effect on him/her.

Although parents very often play a huge role in a child's mental health difficulties, a child with mental problems should not be blamed played on the parents. Awesome parenting can't make your child stop being bipolar, stop having a mood disorder, or stop being depressed. Some kids (some people) are just born with problems, just like they might be born with physical health problems.

I think you would be hard pressed to find any mental health professional that actually wants to remove a 6 year old from his parents. They will try family counseling, intensive treatments, maybe school programs. But if the parent isn't neglectful or abusive, they are going to do anything to keep the family intact.

 

[luvmy3]

He's six. The majority of his life has been spent with adults surrounding him.

I don't believe children are born evil; I don't care what the TV tells us. Children are born happy, well-adjusted and pretty much loving everything and everyone they see. It takes the rest of us to mess them up and some of us can do a really good job at that without ever intending to do so.

If this six year old is setting fires and acting out in dangerous ways, and the parent's response is to punish, punish, punish, and the kid is still behaving dangerously, then it's time to remove that child from the environment that fostered the situation in the first place.

At least for awhile to see if the behavior stops.

You are joking right? Obviously you have never had to deal with a child with less than perfect mental health.

 

[Jennasis]

Has any one had any luck with alternative behavior modification therapies? I guess that's what I'm looking for with the thread. The kid IS under medical care, IS medicated, sees his doctor and therapist, as does the family. There is no intellectual disability at play here...boy is sharp as a tack!

 

[mom2d&b]

My suggestion woudl be to contact the school counsler for counseling suggestions. DD7 has anger issues and we spoke top the school about our concerns ( there were some issues that happened at school as well as home). They provided me with a list of counseling services. The one we choose is actually free, as it is sponsered by the county we live in. They offer 12 free sessions for hte entire family. We have completed 8 appointments. Most have been the entire family but a couple were split sessions where the counseler talked with DH & I for part of the session and another the kids met with her alone for the first part.

 

[TaraPA]

Is the child in school yet? I would think if there are problems at school, the school would be refering him to an Intermediate Unit. We have this issue in our family, unfortunately. My cousin's son has been in & out of the IU & other residential treatment facilities his entire life due to medical/mental/behavioral problems. He has "violent tendancies" as they call them, and has been expelled from public school every year for the past few for this reason. (He is allowed back into public school at the start of the next school year but unfortunately it doesn't last long - and he even has an aide with him at all times). I've seen him in action, even at age 10, 11 & 12 he scared the Bejesus out of me. He's now turning 15 & out of control. As sad as it is, it really wouldn't surprise any of us if he harmed someone or ended up in jail for his actions. If this child is only age 6 & acting violent he may really need some form of residential treatment - for his own saftey & the safety of others - now. I know no parent wants to hear that their child may be better off in the care of others, but if the child is truly dangerous he needs to be living in an environment where there are professionals that know how to deal with/treat the situation.

Hugs to you & your friend & her family. I see how my cousin's life has changed, she's even been suicidal herself over this, it just rots all around.

 

[bluesaturn]

He's six. The majority of his life has been spent with adults surrounding him.

I don't believe children are born evil; I don't care what the TV tells us. Children are born happy, well-adjusted and pretty much loving everything and everyone they see. It takes the rest of us to mess them up and some of us can do a really good job at that without ever intending to do so.

If this six year old is setting fires and acting out in dangerous ways, and the parent's response is to punish, punish, punish, and the kid is still behaving dangerously, then it's time to remove that child from the environment that fostered the situation in the first place.

At least for awhile to see if the behavior stops.

I don't believe children are born evil. I think some children are born more anxious, sadder, more irritable, more hyperactive, or more impulsive than the norm. They are born that way, and then the environment interacts with who they are to produce a behavior. It would take some incredibly extreme situations of abuse to produce such intense acting out behaviors. These parents clearly care enough to explore multiple treatment methods, including counseling and medication.

This is an example of why stigma still exists for those seeking professional mental health help. Parents think they will be blamed for everything, that they must have screwed up the kid.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Has any one had any luck with alternative behavior modification therapies? I guess that's what I'm looking for with the thread. The kid IS under medical care, IS medicated, sees his doctor and therapist, as does the family. There is no intellectual disability at play here...boy is sharp as a tack!

I'm talking about for behavior that is dangerous and unnacceptable. Stuff that would likely have them arrested if they were an adult (starting fires, stealing, breaking windows) or stuff that could potentially harm them.

If the child is under medical care, is medicated, is seeing a therapist, is as sharp as a tack but is still starting fires, stealing and breaking windows, then I'd say to change professionals depending on how long the child has been seeing this particular professional. It's obvious that they are privy to more information about the situation than the rest of us are privy to.

As far as me joking or never having to deal with a child with less than perfect mental health, luvmy3, I have yet to see a baby look at anyone with murder in their eyes or evil intent in their attitudes. But, then again, I don't look at children and try to figure out what's wrong with them. I look at children and love them for what's right with them; hence I rarely see evil or bad children. YMMV.

That's just my experience. Obviously you and I share dissimilar experiences in this life and have disagreed on these kinds of issues before. We'll simply have to disagree on this one, too.

Jennasis, if you're looking for advice, I'd advise you to let the professionals handle it.

 

[jen0610]

If you weren't in NC I would think that you are talking about the Punk Kid that we are dealing with right now.

Not our kid, but it is the kid that 2 years ago, as a TEN YEAR OLD, who threatened to take their family car, run our daughter over, then shot her dead. After two years of forced seperation at school, the kid thought that he could start up things again now that they are in middle school. Nipping that in the bud has already happened. New school is aware, why they weren't notified when the kids moved into middle school is a whole other issue, and they are addressing.

We have talked to the mother. He under treatment, takes meds, has rules but doesn't abide by them, she's a single mom doing the best she can.....there is always a reason for his continued behavior. And yes, prior to the threat 2 years ago, he was a well documented problem kid at the school. So his issues, could very well have started at this same age - 6. The Dr currently handling his treatment, is strongly encuraging that he be placed in structured youth facility. Mom doesn't want to do that to her son.

HELLO....just with our family, he waited TWO YEARS before restarting with his problem causing. DO YOU HONESTLY think what you have been doing for the last two years is just suddenly going to take hold and he's going to get up one morning and be the kind of kid others look up to???? NO, he needs a firm hand to guide him to it. And sorry mom, but you don't have that.

It would more than likely emotionally hurt the family, but it may be time for an outsider/third party to take the guiding hand and set your friends son on the right road.

 

[Pakey]

He's six. The majority of his life has been spent with adults surrounding him.

I don't believe children are born evil; I don't care what the TV tells us. Children are born happy, well-adjusted and pretty much loving everything and everyone they see. It takes the rest of us to mess them up and some of us can do a really good job at that without ever intending to do so.

You are so far from the truth. My son was born depressed. What I thought was a well behaved infant was a severely depressed infant. I did not know this until he was a young child and struggling and a full profile was done on him. Nothing reached him, nothing motivated him. Mental illness stems from physical/medical issues, not environmental issues and are very hard to diagnose and to regulate with medication. My son is almost 29 and still struggles every day, although he was diagnosed as bipolar with disassociative disorder at the age of 17 during his second hospitalization. Even medications and counseling doesn't make it go away, just makes it easier to live with it.

OP, I really feel for your friends. I have no advice. For our family, it never got any easier and I'm grateful that at least my son was not a violent youth.