When you rent points....

[Tamar]

Hi all~

I am going to be renting some of my points to someone for the first time, and the renter and I will be putting together the details over the next few days. I want to offer a fair and equitable cancellation policy in the rental agreement that I provide. Is there a standard? I expect at 30 days out there really wouldn't be any refund unless I could somehow re-rent the points quickly, but what about if something comes up and they have to cancel earlier than that?

Thanks for your advice!

Tamar

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

I have always alllowed cancelation up to 90 days before the check in date and a refund only up to the amount that I can re-rent the points for. I have always stated this up front. Those not interested didn't have to contact me. Offering a full refund is dangerous. What if it is at the end of your use year and you can't bank the points and it's too late to re-use them? Many owners don't offer any kind of refund policy and they rent points just fine.

My advice is to state no refunds and see where that goes.

HBC

 

[JimMIA]

Before you rent, be sure you understand what happens with cancellations within 30 days of stay with DVC, and with the points for ANY cancellation of a non-DVC reservation. The timing between the proposed stay and/or cancellation and the end of your use year is also critical.

If you don't understand those issues, you could really shoot yourself in the foot.

 

[RobDoc]

Keep in mind that the renter is (presumably) getting a greatly discounted rate compared to what would be available directly thru Disney. You do not need to compete with the Disney cancellation policy when you are already competing with the price.

IMO, members should protect themselves at all times in these transactions and make certain your interests are safe with any policies you offer.

I know of one instance when a member, in their eagerness to complete a rental, made a reservation for arrival within 30 days - without even so much as a deposit from the renter. They sent the confirmation letter to their renter and all requests/demands for payment went ignored. The member compounded his problems by maintaining the continued expectation of payment from his renter. Knowing that cancellation would result in the points going into the Holding Account, the member was reluctant to cancel - still trusting that payment would arrive. He sustained that expectation right up until the time his renter checked into the resort and never received payment.
Once check-in had occurred, the reservation was complete and the member had lost all control of the situation. DVC couldn't do anything to assist and the member had no recourse.

Protect yourself at all times - members do fully control the reservation (up until check-in) and should have a firm policy regarding payment and cancellation - and should follow that policy to the letter if their renter does not comply.

 

[JimMIA]

Especially if you are under no serious time pressure, you may want to advertise your points for "transfer only." You make a deal with another DVC owner, they pay you, and you transfer the points to their account.

You are DONE. No rescheduling or cancellation worries. They have full control of the points and their own reservation. The transaction is virtually risk-free for both parties and life is good!

Some renters offer transfer points at a slightly lower rate, but many charge everybody the same price.

 

[JimMIA]

I know of one instance when a member, in their eagerness to complete a rental, made a reservation for arrival within 30 days - without even so much as a deposit from the renter. They sent the confirmation letter to their renter and all requests/demands for payment went ignored. The member compounded his problems by maintaining the continued expectation of payment from his renter. Knowing that cancellation would result in the points going into the Holding Account, the member was reluctant to cancel - still trusting that payment would arrive. He sustained that expectation right up until the time his renter checked into the resort and never received payment.
Once check-in had occurred, the reservation was complete and the member had lost all control of the situation. DVC couldn't do anything to assist and the member had no recourse.

Protect yourself at all times - members do fully control the reservation (up until check-in) and should have a firm policy regarding payment and cancellation - and should follow that policy to the letter if their renter does not comply.

The member certainly DOES have recourse in this situation. Since the "tenant" actually stayed using that ressie, the situation you describe is theft under Florida law (FS 812). If it is between $300 and $20,000, which I am sure it was, it is Grand Theft 3rd degree - a felony punishible by up to five years in prison.

I believe WDW is in the jurisdiction of the Osceola County Sheriff's Office. They have a fraud section (may be called property crimes). While DVC may not provide documentation to the owner, they will certainly provide it to the Sheriff's Department under subpoena (which is a very simple process done every day). All the DVC owner will have to do is supply an affidavit outlining the facts and any documentation they may have.

The owner may also be required to appear in court and testify against the thief, and they should NOT file a police case unless they are willing to do so. Law enforcement agencies enforce laws, not collect bad business deals, so the owner should be willing to prosecute.

If you know that owner and they want to pursue this, have them PM me and I will give them a contact at Osceola SO. I have two of their fraud detectives in an investigative course I am teaching this week.

Very often in situations like this, the State Attorney's Office (prosecutor) will send the prospective defendant what is called a "prior-to" letter. This letter explains that a case has been filed and a warrant is about to be issued. "Prior to" that happening, the SAO will give the crook a chance to explain their side of the story. Those letters often stimulate immediate cashier's checks to the aggrieved party.

If they don't clear things up, a warrant is issued. If they live locally, they will be arrested. If they live within Florida, they will probably be arrested. And if they live out of state, they get a nasty surprise the next time they have any contact with any law enforcement officer.

This entire process has nothing to do with a civil lawsuit. It is a criminal case, and costs the DVC owner not one single penny.

 

[RobDoc]

So, you're suggesting that owners are always in complete control of the situation- even after the fact- and can therefore rent to anyone without regard for any concern over receiving payment?

The point I was making is that, in this situation, the owner had the full opportunity to never put themselves in the position of losing their points and/or not getting paid. They shouldn't have even made the reservation for arrival within 30 days without payment and should have cancelled at least 1 day before arrival since they had not been paid. For whatever reason, they allowed the reservation to remain.

I have no idea whether the member is interested in pursuing criminal action against this individual , perhaps they'll see your advice and contact you directly, but the FACT remains that they could have protected themselves right from the start and didn't. Since this event occurred over 2 years ago, I don't know if they have any interest in doing anything at this time - just thought there might be a lesson for others in sharing the events that occurred in the past.

Thanks for the lesson in criminal prosecution.

 

[JimMIA]

So, you're suggesting that owners are always in complete control of the situation- even after the fact- and can therefore rent to anyone without regard for any concern over receiving payment?

The point I was making is that, in this situation, the owner had the full opportunity to never put themselves in the position of losing their points and/or not getting paid. They shouldn't have even made the reservation for arrival within 30 days without payment and should have cancelled at least 1 day before arrival since they had not been paid. For whatever reason, they allowed the reservation to remain.

I have no idea whether the member is interested in pursuing criminal action against this individual , perhaps they'll see your advice and contact you directly, but the FACT remains that they could have protected themselves right from the start and didn't. Since this event occurred over 2 years ago, I don't know if they have any interest in doing anything at this time - just thought there might be a lesson for others in sharing the events that occurred in the past.

Thanks for the lesson in criminal prosecution.

NO, NO! I'm not suggesting that at ALL. I agree completely that people better protect themselves. Obviously, they would have been much better off if they'd taken your advice.

I was just saying in that particular situation, that there was a possible criminal remedy.

Change the scenario a little, and there would have been no remedy at all. If they'd just held out hope until they lost the points, and the tenant didn't show for the ressie, they would have absolutely no alternatives because there would have been no theft.