When you have a child that excels & another that doesn't....

[LisaR]

Thats exactly how it is here too. If the kids don't start out on these teams at a young age, its usually to late once they get to m.s. or h.s., the teams are already formed from years ago and not to many kids, here at least, drop out.
And I agree with you, I want my dc occupied with something other than running around hanging out in public somewhere. Trouble just waiting to happen.

Why?? I am not questioning you, clovergirl, I am questioning why we have gotten to this point. It wasn't like that when I was young and I played JV and varsity in high school & easily received a sports scholarship. I don't understand when we as a society decided that a 9 y/o needs to be on traveling sports teams if they ever stand a chance of playing HS sports. Am I the only one that finds that ridiculous? I understand that this is the way it is now but that doesn't make it right.

 

[mjkacmom]

Why?? I am not questioning you, clovergirl, I am questioning why we have gotten to this point. It wasn't like that when I was young and I played JV and varsity in high school & easily received a sports scholarship. I don't understand when we as a society decided that a 9 y/o needs to be on traveling sports teams if they ever stand a chance of playing HS sports. Am I the only one that finds that ridiculous? I understand that this is the way it is now but that doesn't make it right.

I blame the crazy dads. Seriously, they are reliving their youth through their children. My DH isn't like that, but, unfortunately, ds's friends dads are, which is one reason he plays so much. Our little town has 5 U11 travel baseball teams, because these dads want their kids to play. People here start hiring private batting and pitching coaches in 4th grade. These kids play well, but tend to develop injuries way earlier now.

 

[jrmasm]

I blame the crazy dads.

I know you said seriously but it still made me laugh.

 

[luvsJack]

I blame the crazy dads. Seriously, they are reliving their youth through their children. My DH isn't like that, but, unfortunately, ds's friends dads are, which is one reason he plays so much. Our little town has 5 U11 travel baseball teams, because these dads want their kids to play. People here start hiring private batting and pitching coaches in 4th grade. These kids play well, but tend to develop injuries way earlier now.

It is getting that way here too. In fact ds is thinking of starting a business giving private batting and pitching lessons. It would be great for him, but I think its crazy that the need is there.

I have also noticed that every time some "big wig"'s kid doesn't make all stars a new league or team gets going the next year!

 

[5lilfish]

Why?? I am not questioning you, clovergirl, I am questioning why we have gotten to this point. It wasn't like that when I was young and I played JV and varsity in high school & easily received a sports scholarship. I don't understand when we as a society decided that a 9 y/o needs to be on traveling sports teams if they ever stand a chance of playing HS sports. Am I the only one that finds that ridiculous? I understand that this is the way it is now but that doesn't make it right.

One thing to keep in mind...my 9 yr old does absolutely love playing on her travel sports team. It's not like anyone is pushing her. My biggest concern with starting young and playing practically year-round is that she will burn-out by the time she hits high school. So far, though, I have seen no signs of that (with my 6th grader). I think what started it around here was that some select or really elite teams were imposible to compete with because they practiced more. Eventually everyone started practicing more to keep up (because being clobbered is no fun).

I will say that our kids develop much better skills by having less time off (not saying that I agree it's worth it). My 11 yr old pitches better than some kids I faced at 16. I laugh at people talking about scholarships though. I say if that is why someone is paying for their child to play they should take all that money and invest in mutual funds. There is not much money out there for most schools to give out in athletics. If they find a player they like, they try to use that kid's grades to get them some money. Also, most schools don't look favorably at a kid that has done nothing but play one sport. They go after well-rounded kids. Truthfully, I played college softball. I would not wish that upon my kid. It is hard to keep up grades and play a sport in college. Of course I would support her if that is what SHE really wanted. It would have to be her choice to go for it.

Jess

 

[NotUrsula]

Why?? I am not questioning you, clovergirl, I am questioning why we have gotten to this point. It wasn't like that when I was young and I played JV and varsity in high school & easily received a sports scholarship. I don't understand when we as a society decided that a 9 y/o needs to be on traveling sports teams if they ever stand a chance of playing HS sports. Am I the only one that finds that ridiculous? I understand that this is the way it is now but that doesn't make it right.

Hallelujah and Amen! It always just kills me to hear parents lamenting that that is just the way it is ... well, it wouldn't be if we went to the mats against it. Stand up and say enough is enough. If it is bad for your other kids and bad for your family dynamic, don't do it just because "everyone else does". Remember what your mother asked you about jumping off a cliff?

I once worked with someone whose wife actually gave up her career so that she could drive her 4 young kids around to their various actitivities. He worked hugely long hours to try to make up for the lost income. None of these kids were stars; they were ordinary players, but even if they were stars, what on earth kind of sense did it make for them to live practically hand-to-mouth so that the kids could play travel sports? These are GAMES, and a lot of people seem to be losing sight of that simple reality -- when a sport interferes with a parent's ability to earn a livelihood, it has definitely gone too far.

 

[5lilfish]

Hallelujah and Amen! It always just kills me to hear parents lamenting that that is just the way it is ... well, it wouldn't be if we went to the mats against it. Stand up and say enough is enough. If it is bad for your other kids and bad for your family dynamic, don't do it just because "everyone else does". Remember what your mother asked you about jumping off a cliff?
.

I wasn't complaining when I said that's just the way it is. We obviously still made the choice to allow our kids to play. Nobody forces us. I also said that we enjoy being busy and see the benefits of keeping our kids busy. sure, if I felt strongly about it, I could protest. the only thing protesting would result in is my kids not playing. I see enough benefit to them playing to outweigh the negatives of the commitment (and commitment has it's positives too). I played travel sports and I bring a lot of good experiences with me through my entire life so far. I want my kis to have that. It's worth some sacrifice for me (and I enjoy more than I sacrifice). My kids also love it. I don't hear any complaining about going to practice/games. If I did, I'd tell them flat out that nobody is making them play. Sure, they have to finish out the season (a lesson of commitment) but they are free to not try-out fot he next year. We've never experienced a kid wanting to quit thus far.

As for 9 yr olds needing to play travel to make HS teams.....High School teams are competitive. Kids that have spent time working on their skills are going to make the team. You can't just walk in at 14 yrs old, without having put in some work, and expect to make the team. that's not new. It was like that when I played HS ball too. What is new is how involved the travel teams are now. When I played travel, we tried-out in June (while playing in house leagues), practiced in July and played in Aug...done by Sept. Now you try out in Aug, practice (or play indoors) from Sept - May and then play outdoors from May - Aug. Most travel kids don't even bother with house leagues.

Jess

 

[Mickey's Minion]

We are friends with a family where one of their children is a "Disney" kid. (not one of the household name kids , but maybe someday).

The Mom does spend several months at a time out in California with the one child. However, I am always surprised at how grounded both of their kids are. Both kids successes are celebrated equally, whether they are on tv or not.

The parents are amazing at balancing time and attention between the kids. They make sure both of them have plenty of activities outside of Hollywood. Some of them one sibling is better at, some of them the other is, so the kids keep a good perspective on life. Not one thing, especially Hollywood, is made the focus of their family.

 

[NotUrsula]

As for 9 yr olds needing to play travel to make HS teams.....High School teams are competitive. Kids that have spent time working on their skills are going to make the team. You can't just walk in at 14 yrs old, without having put in some work, and expect to make the team. that's not new. It was like that when I played HS ball too. What is new is how involved the travel teams are now. When I played travel, we tried-out in June (while playing in house leagues), practiced in July and played in Aug...done by Sept. Now you try out in Aug, practice (or play indoors) from Sept - May and then play outdoors from May - Aug. Most travel kids don't even bother with house leagues.

As with the person I agreed with, it isn't about you personally; it is about my distaste for people who have decided to take advantage of a parent's love for and pride in a child to make a WHOLE lot of money creating travel leagues and club teams that cost a fortune to participate in, and then convincing parents that the child is doomed to failure if they do not participate. My distaste escalates to downright anger when it comes to public high school coaches that won't give a kid a chance just because his parents either could not or would not spend the equivalent of a small mortgage on paying for club sports participation. No kid deserves to be labeled as washed-up and summarily barred from participation at only 14 years old because of what his parents did or did not do.

With all due respect, your SES colors your response. High School sports in this country are full of gifted young athletes who have never even seen a travel team. Either their communities are too poor to support them, or their parents could not afford the fees or the time off work that would be required. If those kids can play and win without the benefit of travel team experience, then yours could, too. Any coach who insists on that kind of experience is an elitist snob, and deserves to lose his or her job.

 

[luvsJack]

I wasn't complaining when I said that's just the way it is. We obviously still made the choice to allow our kids to play. Nobody forces us. I also said that we enjoy being busy and see the benefits of keeping our kids busy. sure, if I felt strongly about it, I could protest. the only thing protesting would result in is my kids not playing. I see enough benefit to them playing to outweigh the negatives of the commitment (and commitment has it's positives too). I played travel sports and I bring a lot of good experiences with me through my entire life so far. I want my kis to have that. It's worth some sacrifice for me (and I enjoy more than I sacrifice). My kids also love it. I don't hear any complaining about going to practice/games. If I did, I'd tell them flat out that nobody is making them play. Sure, they have to finish out the season (a lesson of commitment) but they are free to not try-out fot he next year. We've never experienced a kid wanting to quit thus far.

As for 9 yr olds needing to play travel to make HS teams.....High School teams are competitive. Kids that have spent time working on their skills are going to make the team. You can't just walk in at 14 yrs old, without having put in some work, and expect to make the team. that's not new. It was like that when I played HS ball too. What is new is how involved the travel teams are now. When I played travel, we tried-out in June (while playing in house leagues), practiced in July and played in Aug...done by Sept. Now you try out in Aug, practice (or play indoors) from Sept - May and then play outdoors from May - Aug. Most travel kids don't even bother with house leagues.

Jess

HS teams are competitive, but what you are saying is not always completely true. If a kid has an interest in the sport and really wants to learn, they can play on rec teams that do not include the big bucks and the time involvement and still make the hs teams.

And, as I said in another thread, you don't have to play on these teams to be seen by recruiters in hs either.

On the same note, there are many professional athletes that never played their sport until high school. If you have that kind of talent and drive to excell in the sport; you don't have to play from birth nor sell your first born to play.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Unfortunately that is why so many children are suffering adult injuries. Their bodies weren't meant to be pushed to the degree the crazy coaches push. Sometimes the adults in their lives need to be the ones to put on the brakes.

 

[5lilfish]

HS teams are competitive, but what you are saying is not always completely true. If a kid has an interest in the sport and really wants to learn, they can play on rec teams that do not include the big bucks and the time involvement and still make the hs teams.

And, as I said in another thread, you don't have to play on these teams to be seen by recruiters in hs either.

On the same note, there are many professional athletes that never played their sport until high school. If you have that kind of talent and drive to excell in the sport; you don't have to play from birth nor sell your first born to play.

Of course it's not always true. There are exceptions to everything.....but, my guess is that not too many kids make a HS team without having played at a decent level before.


Also...as for the previous post about making money off of, and taking advantage of, parents. It doesn't work that way around here. Travel coaches are, for the most part, parents of kids on the team. They are not paid. The leagues/tournaments do have fees but those fees are to cover refs/umps and field time etc. Also, we don't think the costs are that out of hand. Of course, as I said earlier, we can afford it. We have put up a fight about certain extra before and always were allowed to decide whether we wanted the item or not. For example, a few yrs ago my oldest DD's soccer team put out the idea of buying warm-up suits for $110. I said, "No way!" We decided to just buy the jacket ($40) and had my DD wear Target wind pants ($9.99). Nobody forced us and a few other parents jumped on board with us.

Jess

 

[castleview]

I'm not quite there yet. DD10 plays travel soccer during Spring and Fall and indoor soccer part of the winter; DD8 tries everything, but she's young enough that each sport she does only takes a few hours. DS4 is just getting started and he's the least enthusiastic to do anything so far.

When it comes to time conflicts, it means DH and I have to split duties. We were both athletes from sports oriented families, so we know the dangers of putting too many eggs in one basket and the realities of sports stardom and scholarships. With that, we haven't gotten to the point where one is taking up too much of our time. I'm very nervous about premier teams or anything similar. I'd rather my kids take their time in each activity and not burn out by the time they get to high school.

 

[clovergirl5]

Why?? I am not questioning you, clovergirl, I am questioning why we have gotten to this point. It wasn't like that when I was young and I played JV and varsity in high school & easily received a sports scholarship. I don't understand when we as a society decided that a 9 y/o needs to be on traveling sports teams if they ever stand a chance of playing HS sports. Am I the only one that finds that ridiculous? I understand that this is the way it is now but that doesn't make it right.

I don't know why things are the way they are now. In our school district, there are many things to sign up for. I always appreciated all the recreational stuff that was offered and that my dc could participate in. Intially I thought it was a good idea for them to be outgoing, a team player and disapline that is involved with playing sports. I also didn't want them sitting home getting fat. They all enjoy all the things they do and I do complain sometimes because it is stressful, I wouldn't change what we do. They ask to sign up for these sports, I encourage it! And all these rec sports that are available to us, they are all supported by volunteers who are mostly parents. For us, its a wonderful thing. And its fun for them and for dh and I. Nothing like going to watch your ds play rocket football while your sitting there freezing, wrapped up in a blanket sipping cocoa and watching your 2 dd's cheerleading for their brother. Or on a hot summer day, watching dd play softball waiting to cook out and socialize with the other parents and teammates inbetween tournament games. It the american way and its fun!

 

[mumom95]

Of course it's not always true. There are exceptions to everything.....but, my guess is that not too many kids make a HS team without having played at a decent level before.

I don't know about all sports but I'm good friends with the high school football coaches of a couple of the high schools around here (and these are very large districts) and both of them say that most of their starters are kids that didn't start playing until 6th or 7th grade. The kids that started much younger than that are just too burn out by high school or are so set in the way the were coached that the new coach can't get through to them to do something different. Like I said, I don't know about other sports, I just know what they said. A few years back the local University's football coach even came out and said boys shouldn't be playing football at such a young age, it's too hard on their bodies.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I don't know about all sports but I'm good friends with the high school football coaches of a couple of the high schools around here (and these are very large districts) and both of them say that most of their starters are kids that didn't start playing until 6th or 7th grade. The kids that started much younger than that are just too burn out by high school or are so set in the way the were coached that the new coach can't get through to them to do something different. Like I said, I don't know about other sports, I just know what they said. A few years back the local University's football coach even came out and said boys shouldn't be playing football at such a young age, it's too hard on their bodies.

The kids who start the really early violin lessons fare about the same. Burn out.

The travel teams/special teams have a lot at stake in making people believe that there isn't any way for their angels to make it to the big time without going through them.

 

[shirleyb]

HS teams are competitive, but what you are saying is not always completely true. If a kid has an interest in the sport and really wants to learn, they can play on rec teams that do not include the big bucks and the time involvement and still make the hs teams.

And, as I said in another thread, you don't have to play on these teams to be seen by recruiters in hs either.

On the same note, there are many professional athletes that never played their sport until high school. If you have that kind of talent and drive to excell in the sport; you don't have to play from birth nor sell your first born to play.

Yep, natural talent will win out every time!

I recently read a newpaper article about a local athlete who's now a pro football player. His senior year in high school, he was first team all state in football and baseball, and state champ in wrestling. Obviously, he's got a lot of natural talent, but what I really like is that he didn't have to choose just one sport to specialize in, which so many kids are forced to do today.

Luckily, we're in a very rural area with a small high school - graduating class of 100 - 150 kids, so their teams almost never are forced to cut anyone, and even so they've won state championships in wrestling, track, softball, and baseball, and most of their kids play more than one sport. My DS's lettered in football, wrestling, and track. And never played on a travel team.

 

[NotUrsula]

...
Also...as for the previous post about making money off of, and taking advantage of, parents. It doesn't work that way around here. Travel coaches are, for the most part, parents of kids on the team. They are not paid. The leagues/tournaments do have fees but those fees are to cover refs/umps and field time etc. Also, we don't think the costs are that out of hand. Of course, as I said earlier, we can afford it. We have put up a fight about certain extra before and always were allowed to decide whether we wanted the item or not. For example, a few yrs ago my oldest DD's soccer team put out the idea of buying warm-up suits for $110. I said, "No way!" We decided to just buy the jacket ($40) and had my DD wear Target wind pants ($9.99). Nobody forced us and a few other parents jumped on board with us.

It isn't the leagues who make that much money, but the existence of the leagues is a HUGE boon to sports equipment mfrs. and facility owners.
Facility rentals add up for those year-round seasons. Do you really think that equipment mfrs. had no hand at all in the change of style and the extension of the playing season? The more kids play, the more top-flight equipment they "need", and the more money those folks make. Kids who play high school sports get most of their equipment supplied by the school; it is used over and over again by hundreds of kids, and schools pay far less for the stuff than individuals do, because they purchase via government contracts.

There is a store in my city that is very popular with folks who are very into playing team sports, but they make their real money on the wholesale end, supplying teams. Originally their business was mostly in taking care of the equipment needs of the local pro sports teams, and twenty years ago the store was full of adult equipment. I went in there last week to have a pr. of skates sharpened, and now well over half of the inventory is devoted to kids' gear. Very expensive kids gear for kids who play year-round.

You did buy that $40 jacket, right? Thousands of other parents did, too, and someone took that to the bank.

 

[MusiqChic99]

Due to health issues I will only have 1 child so I will never have to face this issues. Although I've seen it many times. Growing up my sister and I both were cheerleaders so we got equal time with our activites.

My cousins were very different though. One was the best at everything he tried. And I mean everything. Every sport...getting friends...girls loved him. And to top it all off he was good looking and sweet guy in general. His younger brother liked the same things his brother did but never really excelled at them. So their dad focused only on the one that did. It was sad but I know my Aunt really tried to focus on the younger one so he wouldn't feel left out.

Again I am glad I will not have to face this issue. If my son excels (he's 3) then I can focus as much time as I feel appropriate and if he doesn't, then I can focus the attention on something else. I know my sweetie really wants him to do martial arts like he does but I'm afraid if he doesn't want to, dh will be disappointed but I am not making my son do anything he doesn't want to.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Due to health issues I will only have 1 child so I will never have to face this issues. Although I've seen it many times. Growing up my sister and I both were cheerleaders so we got equal time with our activites.

My cousins were very different though. One was the best at everything he tried. And I mean everything. Every sport...getting friends...girls loved him. And to top it all off he was good looking and sweet guy in general. His younger brother liked the same things his brother did but never really excelled at them. So their dad focused only on the one that did. It was sad but I know my Aunt really tried to focus on the younger one so he wouldn't feel left out.

Again I am glad I will not have to face this issue. If my son excels (he's 3) then I can focus as much time as I feel appropriate and if he doesn't, then I can focus the attention on something else. I know my sweetie really wants him to do martial arts like he does but I'm afraid if he doesn't want to, dh will be disappointed but I am not making my son do anything he doesn't want to.

lol, good job getting him out to school every day, then!