When did teacher bashing become acceptable?

I get a lot of raised eyebrows when I tell people I want to be a teacher. A lot of "rather you than me" and "HIGH SCHOOL? REALLy? YOU CRAZY!!!".

The best one I've heard so far has been:

Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach, teach PE


:lmao:
 
Here is what I have experienced

1) Being stabbed in the arm with scissors by a student. Parents get angry with me for leaving to take care of the arm. I ended up with 10 stitches.

2) Being called a racist for retaining a child who did not meet state standards.

3) I have had a children who at five years are not potty trained. The expectation being that I will not only change diapers but potty train them.

I could go on. I love what I do. I wouldn't change it for anything.

To the poster who wondered why teacher GRE scores were low I have a theory. Women have more options today. We can be more than nurses and teachers if we choose. We choose to look for higher paying professions hence the "brain drain." Supply and demand, right?

If your upset with the system i.e standardized tests, fees, buying supplies, complain to the people in charge. I have absolutely nothing to do with what is provided in the classroom. I have nothing to do with NCLB.

Stepping down from my soapbox.

Dr. Reese, P.Hd, Curriculum Design in Elementary Grades Math

:thumbsup2 That's all I have to say!

Well, besides that I can't believe you were stabbed with a scissors! I thought it was bad that a kid kicked and bit my dad!
 
To the poster who wondered why teacher GRE scores were low I have a theory. Women have more options today. We can be more than nurses and teachers if we choose. We choose to look for higher paying professions hence the "brain drain." Supply and demand, right?

I didn't wonder why they were low -- Silber said as much in the essay I linked. He agrees with you. As the university curriculum becomes dumbed down due to dumbing down of primary education, intelligent men AND women are increasingly finding the School of Education to be inadequate to their needs. There certainly are those with a true calling for elementary education who continue anyway, but more and more of the higher end intellects are gravitating towards secondary education or other fields.

And before this turns into a "you think teachers are dumb" thread, I do not. I was just pointing out that those who expect respect above and beyond what they deliver should realize that some of the negative public image is based on very real evidence.
 
I happen to agree with you. I also believe that every profession has its own importance in the maintaining of our society. I teach in Florida and even with my doctorate I will be lucky if I ever get close to $60,000 working in a classroom.

The one thing that I have become more vocal about since I began is the antiquated pay everyone with the same years and same degrees the same. I have a colleague that is rather useless. She does very little. Her children pretty much never meet standards. Yet she gets paid the same as someone who does correctly do their job. The parents don't respect her and this disrespect passes on through the years. Why can't we get rid of her? No, it's not the union. Unions here are like sick kittens. Her father is a high school principal.

We have quite a few out-of-state teachers that relocated here because they couldn't find a job in their home state (NJ, Ohio, Michigan). Who did get those jobs up north? The applicants who had a connection not because they were most qualified. I'm starting to get OT here but hey why not add some more food for thought?
 

First off, let me say that when my dd started elementary school, I had nothing but respect for teachers. I had phenomenal teachers when growing up in my cash-poor urban school which 30-40 years ago had the type of behavioral/drug/race issues that other parts of the country have been dealing with in the last years. And yet, 30-40 years ago -- when teachers were vastly underpaid -- these dedicated men and women saw to it that I was given an opportunity for an education that exceeded in quality that found at some of the most expensive private schools in the country (as evidenced by our test scores on the APs, SATS, ACTs and so on). In addition, I had a very demoralizing home life and these teachers went out of their way to give me positive reinforcement and to help me believe that I could rise above my home life. Were ALL of my teachers wonderful? Of course not. My PE teachers were, generally, known alcoholics or bullies. My earth science teacher fell asleep while teaching class almost every day. But in general, my teachers were fantastic and the schools run well.

Now, my dd enrolls in school. What happens to my view of teachers and the ed system? Let's see:

First grade teacher doesn't understand first grade math -- she admitted this to me. (She also kept insisting that asthma really wasn't a serious illness and I was being ridiculous about my concerns for my dd's health.)

Second grade teacher screamed constantly, denigrated the kids, made half the class cry every day, calls the developmentally-disabled girl in the class "STUPID!", and is so bad the class has a constant parent volunteer in there to ensure she doesn't physically abuse a child and ALL of the grading is done by parent volunteers. She also sent a note home when my dd finished the 2nd grade math curriculum in January saying, "Congratulations. Your dd has finished the 2nd grade math curriculum. If you think I'm going to do anything more with her, think again. You are officially on your own."

We move out of this school district into another one reported to have a great school system. Third grade teacher was fantastic.

Fourth grade teacher did not understand fourth grade math.

Fourth grade health teacher told the kids to use the words Venus and Virginia instead of the correct anatomical terms because she was uncomfortable with them.

Fifth grade teacher sent me home a note that my dd's shirt showed her bellybutton when she raised her hand, but did NOT send home a note when my previously-straight A dd got two Fs on science exams. I only found this out when I inquired why she got a C in science that quarter. When I asked why a shirt got a note home but not two Fs, what was her answer? "I have my priorities and telling parents about their child getting an F is not one of them."

Sixth grade math teacher told my dd that she should stop getting As in math, because getting a B was good enough. SIxth grade history teacher's class consisted of him putting an overhead projector of transparencies on the wall and having the kids copy his notes into their notebook. When they were done with that, he would sit around and ask them to gossip about which girl was going out with which boy. Sixth grade English teacher constantly lost the kids homework assignments -- she admitted this -- but would then give the kid an "F" on the assignment even though it was her fault.

Seventh grade health teacher gave the kids grossly wrong wrong wrong information about human sexuality.

I could go on.

Based upon our experience in the least 8 years, the odds are that the majority of my dd's teachers will not be competent and/or professional and that the school system will do nothing to get rid of them. So while I do believe there are good teachers out there, the odds of my dd getting them are small.

At this point, I would say that if teachers feel they are getting bashed, half of it is unrealistic expectations/attitudes from parents and the other half is due to good parents gettting angry about the plethora of poor teachers who never seem to get fired. So the question I would have for teachers is this -- since you really can't have much impact on how bad parents behave, what is your profession doing to ensure that the other half of that equation changes -- that good teachers are rewarded and bad teachers are removed?*

(*Perhaps when I hear more about unions working to get rid of bad teachers instead of calculating to the minute how long teachers have to stay at school once the bell rings, then I'll have a better opinion.)
 
Do you know why that happens? Because if you get pregnant before you are tenured in many districts, you will not be given a new contract. So what people do is they wait until their tenure year and then start their families.


Where is that? I've never heard of such a thing.

That is not the case here in Maryland (or at least AA County or PG county).

Pregnancy has no effect on tenure or contracts.
 
Since there are a lot of teachers paying attention to this thread, can I please ask about ds's 2nd grade math homework

The directions are exactly like this:

Make a Ten

Use a ten-frame and (picture of a big black dot) to make a ten.
Find the sum.

1. 7
+ 5

2. 8
+6


followed by 22 more similar addition problems, none of them with a sum of more than 20.

I was in 2nd grade in 1974 so I have no clue why he can't just do the problems the traditional way...well, actually he did and finished them in about 2 minutes, but I'm sure he will need to understand this.

Thanks a bunch!
 
/
Since there are a lot of teachers paying attention to this thread, can I please ask about ds's 2nd grade math homework

The directions are exactly like this:

Make a Ten

Use a ten-frame and (picture of a big black dot) to make a ten.
Find the sum.

1. 7
+ 5

2. 8
+6


followed by 22 more similar addition problems, none of them with a sum of more than 20.

I was in 2nd grade in 1974 so I have no clue why he can't just do the problems the traditional way...well, actually he did and finished them in about 2 minutes, but I'm sure he will need to understand this.

Thanks a bunch!
I haven't taught 2nd grade math in ages, but remember when DS had to do this in 2nd grade.

Using the 10 frame teaches them another way to add two numbers under 10. It's certainly easier to add 10+2 to get 12 than to add 5+7, right!? well, this method shows them that 7 is 3 away from 10 -- they can take 3 from the 5 (leaving you w/2), and add that 3 to the 7 to make it a full 10 and then the remaining 2 go in the ones spot to make 12. It's supposed to be quicker to think in terms of 7 being 3 away from 10, so if I borrow those 3 from the 5, I have ten and then there are 2 left over, so I have 12.

Crazy, I know ... it's crazy and it doesn't work for me, either. I like the traditional way myself.
 
I haven't taught 2nd grade math in ages, but remember when DS had to do this in 2nd grade.

Using the 10 frame teaches them another way to add two numbers under 10. It's certainly easier to add 10+2 to get 12 than to add 5+7, right!? well, this method shows them that 7 is 3 away from 10 -- they can take 3 from the 5 (leaving you w/2), and add that 3 to the 7 to make it a full 10 and then the remaining 2 go in the ones spot to make 12. It's supposed to be quicker to think in terms of 7 being 3 away from 10, so if I borrow those 3 from the 5, I have ten and then there are 2 left over, so I have 12.

Crazy, I know ... it's crazy and it doesn't work for me, either. I like the traditional way myself.


That's what I thought it might be because I'm dyslexic and actually do this very easily in my head all the time, but how do you explain this to 7 yr olds and then you're asking them to do 3 problems instead of 1...poor teachers. So traditional math is going along the way of phonics?
 
So traditional math is going along the way of phonics?
Oh, honey ... I hate to be the one to tell you ... but there is no more traditional math! It's called "new math" now! Wait til you get to the Stem and Leaf Plot stuff in 4th grade math. Talk about WTH!!!!!! I'm a teacher and it even confuses me!!!
 
Fun thread to read. Thanks for the compliments. I always listen to our critics as well, so thanks to you too. We learn a lot from you as well.

I teach.

I get paid pretty well. Thanks. Been doing it for 25 years now. Have a masters degree and more credits beyond that than I ever imagined I'd ever take. Like it or not, it moves me on the pay scale. I can't really apologize for that; it's the way we are compensated.

I don't work at the school over the summer because I can't. I don't know why anyone would be defensive about that. I use that time to read for pleasure. Often I share those books with my class. I travel too. I teach a bit on the side, grad classes for teachers.

I find that teachers are received like many professions in our society. Teachers are lazy and rotten and overpaid. You aren't so bad, but we know some who are. Like lawyers and ministers and salesmen and the like.

I got a lovely note from a former student of mine who just graduated in June and is leaving for college in a few days. She told me how much she got out of my class...not how much she learned, but how much it meant to her when I told her what a terrific writer she was. Her response: I hate writing. We both got a good laugh out of that....

I could find kids who would tell me what a waste of time my class and I are too, so it all sort of evens out.

This is the path I chose. I've met some of the most remarkable people. I am humbled by the students who I have had the privilege to teach. I tell them up front they are smarter than I am. And that's just being honest. They each are unique with tremendous abilities they have yet to realize, so I just try to let them know that, and hopefully they discover that for themselves.

Hope all you teachers have a great year.
 
The one thing that I have become more vocal about since I began is the antiquated pay everyone with the same years and same degrees the same. I have a colleague that is rather useless. She does very little. Her children pretty much never meet standards. Yet she gets paid the same as someone who does correctly do their job. The parents don't respect her and this disrespect passes on through the years. Why can't we get rid of her? No, it's not the union. Unions here are like sick kittens. Her father is a high school principal.

I would love to see our kids school have performanced based pay for the teachers. (based on teacher performance, not student performance on standardized tests).

Our kids school has some excellent teachers; teachers who not only educate or kids but stimulate them as well. These men and woman should be better compensated than their peers who make the minimal effort (if that).
 
Oh, honey ... I hate to be the one to tell you ... but there is no more traditional math! It's called "new math" now! Wait til you get to the Stem and Leaf Plot stuff in 4th grade math. Talk about WTH!!!!!! I'm a teacher and it even confuses me!!!

Oh boy:rotfl:

thankfully ds loves math, hope it continues...reading is the kicker, although his vocabulary is amazing. He asked me to "stabalize" the table cloth when he was doing his homework last night.:confused3

Thanks so much for info!
 
Q: When did teacher bashing become acceptable?

A: When they decided that nobody was no longer allowed to question what they do with the children.

It is the parents' job to question their child's education! It's the community's job to monitor and question education. I am not offended by any questions about how or why I do things in the classroom. Some very good ideas have come from these questions. I'm sorry if it came across that I resented this.

This is quite a thread. OP, here's your answer about teacher bashing. No one's bashing, but it seems to me there are a lot of teachers roaming around these boards with thin skin. Because someone says, "My kid has 2 hours of homework per night. How in the world am I supposed to get that done," does not mean they are teacher bashing. Because someone calls into question a decision a teacher in their child's life has made, does not mean they hate teachers and think they are worthless. Some of your posts are martyrdom at its purist.

Again, I would expect any responsible parent to ask if they have a question, listen to the answer, and make suggestions. I would also expect a parent to vent when frustrated. It never occured to me that anyone "hated" me or teachers in general.

I have to agree with this. Just because someone complains about something one teacher does, it does not mean that they are somehow implying that they hate all teachers. The fact is that many people on these boards have children so the subject is going to come up more often. Sometimes these people are being unreasonable and sometimes I think their complaints are justified. (And sometimes, teachers themselves have complained about teachers that their own children have.) In either case, most of the time, the posters are complaining about one teacher and I do not know how or why that is then interpreted as bashing the entire teaching profession.

Of course teachers complain about other teachers. I do not interpret a poster venting or complaining about a teacher (or even a group of teachers) as bashing the entire profession. That would be as silly as interpreting a complaint about Wal Mart as a condemnation of retail sales.

After reading thur 10 pages I think if comes down to the "ole poor us" we teachers have it so much rougher than everyone else attitude. I won't generalize and say all teachers but the majority I know (probably 20) all display it.

I don't have it rougher than everyone else. I have bad days. Yesterday was a bad day. Today was too :rolleyes: . I would imagine that everyone has had a stretch of crappy days.

And that's where the animosity comes into play. Many, many teachers consider the children in the classroom "theirs" and give the children their all every single day. That doesn't mean the children succeed in all cases; what it means is that the teacher has devoted time and effort regardless of the outcome. And since it's the outcome that is scrutinized, people tend to think of teachers as failures if the children fail. That's unfair to everyone involved.

Yes, many people think that we are failures if our children fail. I feel that way too where I am concerned. I always wonder how I could have done better.

Hi there, I wondered how you felt about other teachers you work with? are there any that are bad teachers, disinterested, lazy, burned out? or are they all like you?

Yes to all of the above except the "are they all like you" part. I do not want to come across as "Super Teacher". I'm not.

Yes, as many here know, I have had many very very negative experiences with teachers and school administrators. But, I would never go out and make blanket statements about them as a profession.

I do feel that our educational system is way out of control and I see many systemic and serious problems.

I will be glad when my son is no longer enrolled in school.

I understand completely.
 
Crazy, I know ... it's crazy and it doesn't work for me, either. I like the traditional way myself.

WTH?!? That IS crazy. I thought that's why we had fingers - TO COUNT ON.

Toes as spare, obviously.
 
OP here -

I apologize for coming across as a martyr. Perhaps I did have a martyr complex. I mainly just wanted to vent. I do not consider myself thin-skinned (um, usually). You can't be thin-skinned and survive as a teacher. I am developing a tougher hide. I'm developing a bigger one too, but that's another story :rotfl: .

This has been one of those weeks, but next week will certainly be better. I meant no offense to anyone.
 
I'm a teacher, and I see so much teacher bashing on all message boards. People complain about incompetent teachers, teacher salaries and teachers' hours.

I never hear anyone complaining about another profession as much.

I've been in my classroom getting ready for the new school year for about 60 hours so far. Unpaid. I'll be in for about 60 more before school starts. Every single teacher in my building works at least a full week before school. Name another occupation that does that.

I deal with angry parents who blame me for everything that's wrong with their child. I've even had death threats made against me, and had to get police involved! And ya just gotta love when a parent tells you, "I pay your salary, so you're actually my employee!" Right. Okay.

My 9-5 friends go on business trips to NYC, get mileage checks, some even get company cars. They go out to lunch. They take random days off, vacation whenever they want to. Lots of them "work from home" a few times a month (which means they take one conference call, and spend the rest of the day doing housework or watching movies). They make more than I do, even though most of them are 5-10 years younger than me with much less education than I have. They get promotions, bonuses, and bigger raises.

But you know what? I'm the lucky one.

I love love love my job. Most of them hate work. I have fun every single day. I sing, I read books, I challenge young minds. I have kids telling me "I love you!" all day long, every day.

So people can bash us all they want. I just wish they tried to understand us more.
 
Where is that? I've never heard of such a thing.

That is not the case here in Maryland (or at least AA County or PG county).

Pregnancy has no effect on tenure or contracts.

New Jersey
Before I got my current job I was interviewing for a maternity leave position in another district. The assistant super. was the one interviewing me and told me that the district (a very good suburban area) had a large number of maternity leave positions available because so many of the teachers were getting tenure that year.

I've also seen a few girls in my own district that were not given new contracts because they had babies before tenure.
 
WTH?!? That IS crazy. I thought that's why we had fingers - TO COUNT ON.

Toes as spare, obviously.

Yep welcome to the joys of being a teacher in the US. None of it makes sense lately! I know in my kids elementary 1/2 the kids still struggle with reading because instead of teaching them the basics they give them a sheet with 100 typical words like the, and, if, we, are etc....and instead of actually sounding them out and reading them they are TIMED on how many they know in a minute! It's word recognition not phonics. Just another typical day in the messed up US Education system.

As for teachers....I got tired of all of the negativity so I quit teaching. A teacher here earns $38,000.00 per year. We are 38th in the country for paying teachers an adequate salary and are close to last if not the last in the country for the amount of funding spent per child. It's very sad actually!
 
Just to clear up one point. Teachers DO NOT get paid vacations. We are paid for working 186 days per year. We do get paid sick days which are decided upon by the state and we can take up to 3 approved personal days. If they do not approve them, you take the time without pay. Our only "true" vacation day would be a snow day. I love teaching and I am fortunate to be paid well, however, we are not paid in the summer for not working, our pay for our 186 days are divided throughout the year and we do not have vacation days.

Here we have to pay our subs for our personal days, and depending on the reason, don't get paid ourselves---so here, it's possible to end up paying for your days away.
I don't mind, I just don't take them---but for people who feel that we have so many days off...it's not the same everywhere.
And I have yet to have free health insurance, although I do feel decently compensated, particularly considering the community I work in (although there are both extremes there).

I think we have one or two folks on each "side" that get everybody going, and then everyone (who would normally probably get along) feel lumped in with either indiscriminate bashers or lazy teachers...both of which are groups that certainly exist. Anyway, since the majority of those here do not really belong to either group, this gets our collective undies in a bundle, and the few people that enjoy the drama fan the flames.
Happens every time. Mostly rational people being pushed on by a few that want to fight.

As a teacher, I can confirm that it's not always easy, but neither is any other profession. I can also acknowledge that there are great teachers and truly awful ones, and most of us don't appreciate the protection unions provide for our lazy colleagues. As someone who teaches an elective course (and is still last hired, first fired), seeing numbers drop because of one lazy, thoughtless teacher is FRUSTRATING.
 














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