When did teacher bashing become acceptable?

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

Wow, where's that $60,000 job? I'll take it.

Long Island. You'll pass $60K in about 3-4 years - with full benefits, 75% retirement and tenure granted after 3 years. Significant stipends for coaching, leading a club, grading state exams, you name it...you can easily add anywhere from $1,000 to $10,000 a year to your salary.

 

[CheshireVal]

thanks for the enlightenment

now I understand why they are entitled

Entitled? I think teachers are entitled to get pregnant, sure. That seems to be what you were most upset about in your original post.

Back in the "old days," teachers weren't allowed to be married. That's where the stereotype of the old schoolmarm came from.

The fact is that teachers are people just like you. They have families-- children, husbands, wives, moms, dads, pets. They have lives outside of the school building. True, they are supposed to do the best job they can during the school day, but sometimes life happens and they just have to take off work. I don't think that means tax dollars are going to waste.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

Those exist here, too, but it doesn't list the pay for extracurriculars. Mostly because those are decided by individual principals, and some activities are deemed worthy of extra pay, and some aren't. Sometimes there just isn't budget for it, either.

Here, all these things are decided at contract negotiation time, and are voted on and approved by the board of education, in public, for all to see. Our principals hands are tied and they can't spend a nickel unless it's been approved.

Teachers in our district get stipends for everything. In fact, a bunch of parents wanted to start an afternoon chess club at the school and we had to wait until the school district posted the position for a teacher to be the paid club leader. If a teacher wanted the position, it would have to go before the board of education and get approval to spend the $500 - 1000 on the teacher to be the club leader. Only after this whole process took place were the parents able to start the chess club - 3 months later.

 

[rotlex]

and for the record, I think it is horrible that homeowners without children are forced to pay the same tax as parents. It is totally wrong. Our government needs to address this issue and do a whole revamp on taxes. okay I am done ranting for the evening

Or at least give those that choose to send their child to private school a break on those taxes. You are right, something really does need to be done about this.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

Guess you picked the wrong profession then. And those taxes you pay don't just go towards education. And the portion that does is not just going toward teacher salaries. Again, a bad experience with a teacher is setting up a negative image of teachers in general. That horrible teacher...How dare her get pregnant, what was she thinking. I guess that will be the next contract item we fight over. Ladies, you may not start families until you have reached the retirement age, but don't worry because your benefits will still be available for you.

The school tax portion of my property tax bill is $12,000 (add $2,500 for police and about $2500 more for town, county and roads and $1200 for my village taxes). According to our last school budget - salaries and related expenses were more than $16million of our $35million dollar budget (not including the salaries of adminstrators - these were just instruction salaries and their benefits). So, that's nearly half of our annual budget being spent on teacher salaries, stipends, etc.

So, I think it's fair to say that at least half of my school tax gets paid directly to teachers - that's $6,000 a year out of our pockets. I think that entitles us to complain when a teachers sucks.

 

[Toot Sweet]

I'd blame that person that put that gun to your head and made you get into teaching.

Sorry, but that was funny to me. And I'm a teacher!

I agree that teachers do give a lot more of their time and money than a lot of people realize. My DH is always getting chapped at me for all the money I am spending on my classroom and students. But we all knew what we were getting into when we entered this profession. It's no secret what teaching is like. It is hard, and it is rewarding. Martyr-type posts kind of bug me, just sayin'.

 

[java]

Personally I don't teacher bash in general. I do complain about bad teachers that my children have had and I glow about the great teachers they have had. I think most people have a problem with the UNION and not the teachers. It is difficult for people to be sympathic to demands for more money when personally they don't get half of the benefits that teachers get.

Now I also believe that instead of just paying on scale teachers should be rewarded and paid by performance. There is a teacher in our school that teaches a 2 week computer class in the summer for FREE! He also is available at the school every day until 5! He deserves to be paid for his time. And there are many others that make that 8-3 time so rewarding that they deserve to be paid $$$$.

But there also are a few terrible teachers. They arrive breakfast in hand as the bell rings. And they beat the buses out. They are unavailable to parents. My dd's teacher this year offered me the time slot of 9-9:15 on a Tuesday to meet her to discuss some math issues my daughter was having. That is the only time she was available. Ever. 9-9:15. So make it quick. During the day the kids go to several "specials" like gym, art and music. So the teacher has about 90 minutes a day on top of lunch hour, to organize,lesson plan or grade tests.

I think in every job there are people that are great and then some not so great. In the real world, most time those not so great people lose their jobs. In the teaching world the not so great ones usually get shifted to the lower grades and hang around until they are tenured. That I have a problem with.

 

[Fitswimmer]

when...................


when teachers who should no longer teach are kept on because of tenure.

when teachers who earn 75K plus a year for only 10 months pay are able to tell their senior students they will not write a letter of reccomendation for them for the college of their choice if they do not side with their views and hold up protests signs for them


when teachers refuse to come back to work because they do not receive 2 days off for a jewish holiday instead of one...they could of taken off one of their numerous personal days ,,,,but why should they ...

when teachers get 100% paid health care benefits paid for and when the township asks them to possibly to contribute $50 per week towards that they go on strike.

I can go on and on and on

in my state and in my town it is ridiculous.
we are paying for teachers who do not teach anymore, put in less that 35 hrs a week and get paid big bucks with free healthcare and a great pension.

Now lets compare that to a non teacher ...in my town and my state....

works 40 plus hours a week for 12 months

no yearly increases
pays at least 20-30 percent of healthcare benefits
no pension
only 2 weeks vacation a year
around 5 days allotted for sick time per year

so....

I tell both my kids to go to college and become teachers.
you have a guaranteed job, annual increases,free health insurance and a pension to boot.


and once again,,, this is my state and in particular my county, my town.

I am sure it is different around the country

Hello fellow NJ person here-and you have listed the reasons why teachers get bashed up here in the north section of NJ too. I work out at the YMCA every morning and we have a large number of teachers who come in at that time. I'm friends with them, but I admit that I get REALLY tired of the whining in the winter about "we haven't had a single snow day yet and I really need one!" when the rest of us go to work in all sorts of conditions and didn't just come off of a 10 day break for Christmas...the countdown to summer so "we can sleep in and go to the town pool" and "we only got a 4% raise this year and now they want US to pay into our benefits!!" when I hadn't had a raise at ALL in 3 years and have paid a percentage of my benefits since I started working. I know that the teachers in my area have it MUCH better than teachers in other cities, states and towns, so YMMV.

Even with all the benefits, I wouldn't do the job because I couldn't take some of the crap I hear them talk about with parents and kids. I have the utmost sympathy and respect for them for having to deal with all that-but it doesn't mean that they should be immune from criticism or from having people get annoyed at some of the things they complain about.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

I think I want to add that a lot of our comments are regional ones.

Here on Long Island, we pay dearly for education and are faced with very strong teacher unions. Obviously, throughout the rest of the country, teachers are paid disgustingly low wages and do not have the power or strength that our local teachers have.

I think it's important when people read threads like this to realize that a lot of our experiences are vastly different when it comes to this issue.

I think it's fair to say that we've all dealt with some truly exceptional teachers - and we've all dealt with some who shouldn't be in molding clay, never mind molding children's minds.

I understand that teachers that live in my area must be paid a living wage - there is no where to live here that isn't expensive. And we are willing to pay for the best of the best - but, as a group, the teacher's unions have to start to realize they have to be willing to let go of dead weight - teachers who abuse the system, punch the clock - who basically are inept, should be set free.

I think only when, and I'm speaking on a local level here, our local teachers' union actually treats the best of their group better than the worst of their group and the public sees that they will not blindly protect someone who is incompetent, will people feel that the teachers' union are doing the right thing. Until then, the public will consider all teachers to be of the same mindset. Fair or not fair - it's the way people in my area think. And, honestly, it does make me sick that the teachers' union does protect lazy idiots.

In fact, there was one young teacher who wanted a coaching position (he was a huge athlete at his college) and he was told by the teacher's union that he couldn't take it for two more years becuase another teacher, who was nearing retirement, wanted to beef up his ending salary to make his pension higher and the younger teacher would willingly not apply for the position. The older teacher had never coached this particular sport. The parents were furious, the kids were upset, but it was what it was. This young teacher went on to another district.

Anyway - my point is - everyone who posts on this topic does so from their perspective, their experiences and their region. No one should take it personal - if a teacher knows they are a good teacher and they're happy with their job - what people say here shouldn't matter. If they're not happy - posting here isn't going to change that situation.

I commend anyone who would work for $12K a year to do anything. I wouldn't. Funny - it wouldn't even pay the school tax portion of my property tax bill.

 

[MushyMushy]

I commend anyone who would work for $12K a year to do anything. I wouldn't. Funny - it wouldn't even pay the school tax portion of my property tax bill.

I would teach for that or less if I didn't have a mountain of student loan debt to pay off. If I'm ever lucky enough to find a job in my district, I'll only start out at $22,000, and it's TOUGH to find a job here. You tell me those people are working for the money?

 

[CheshireVal]

I think I want to add that a lot of our comments are regional ones.

That's a good point. Unions in general just aren't seen or heard from much down here. You rarely hear anything about teacher unions at all.

 

[gina2000]

I hate to say this but $60,000 doesn't buy much house (if any) in NJ nor in LI. So while it's a living wage, it's not a liveable wage in this part of the country.

And I do most certainly agree that each and every person's district is different and each teacher is different and each administration is different. Personally, I sub and have seen wonderful classrooms. I've also seen classrooms that make me wonder how effective the teacher really is. I've been surprised though. Many, many teachers are very dedicated to their profession and put a ton of time and effort into their childrens' education.

And that's where the animosity comes into play. Many, many teachers consider the children in the classroom "theirs" and give the children their all every single day. That doesn't mean the children succeed in all cases; what it means is that the teacher has devoted time and effort regardless of the outcome. And since it's the outcome that is scrutinized, people tend to think of teachers as failures if the children fail. That's unfair to everyone involved.

 

[Cass]

I love my students. My skin tingles and my heart flutters when I hear a child say, "Oh, I get it!" or "I did it!" I always have a hug ready and a complement on my tongue when they arrive. My classroom is safe for all children. I don't care if they are poor, disabled, gifted, rich, sick, ADHD, depressed, pretty, or any other classification - they are MINE for 7 hours a day and I love them.

I do my best. My best is not always good enough. My best is not always good. I'm there though. I care enough to be there and I will continue to do everything I can. Help me, don't hate me. I am not perfect, and I shouldn't be expected to be. I am human. I am a teacher.

Hi there, I wondered how you felt about other teachers you work with? are there any that are bad teachers, disinterested, lazy, burned out? or are they all like you?

 

[Wishing on a star]

I am a 2nd grade teacher that has been working in excess of 10 hours a day since school started back. I answer to the Federal, State, and County government as well as my school administration. I also answer to parents, aunts, grandparents, and all other taxpayers. I have a lot of bosses. I have not had a duty-free lunch yet this year. Monday I worked 9 1/2 hours without a break. I work at least 2-3 hours at home most nights. I spend hundreds of dollars of my own money to provide for my students. I am responsible for their test scores whether they are smart, disinterested, abused, excited, loved, or ignored.

OH GOOD GREIF... QUITE THE MARTYR AREN'T WE!
I AM SITTING HERE TRYING TO IMAGINE ANYONE IN ANY OTHER PROFESSION GOING AROUND MAKING COMMENTS LIKE THE ABOVE.

I love my students. My skin tingles and my heart flutters when I hear a child say, "Oh, I get it!" or "I did it!" I always have a hug ready and a complement on my tongue when they arrive. My classroom is safe for all children. I don't care if they are poor, disabled, gifted, rich, sick, ADHD, depressed, pretty, or any other classification - they are MINE for 7 hours a day and I love them.

UMMMM, NO, MY CHILD(REN) ARE MINE.
THE SCHOOL SYSTEM DOES NOT OWN MY CHILD.

I do my best. My best is not always good enough. My best is not always good. I'm there though. I care enough to be there and I will continue to do everything I can. Help me, don't hate me. I am not perfect, and I shouldn't be expected to be. I am human. I am a teacher.

I DON'T SEE ANYBODY HERE MAKING STATEMENTS THAT THEY HATE YOU PERSONALLY. DO NOT SEE ANYONE HERE MAKING BLANKET STATEMENTS THAT THEY HATE TEACHERS.

IF YOU ARE GETTING THESE KINDS OF VIBES FROM OTHERS AROUND YOU, THEN PERHAPS YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER WHY THIS IS THE CASE.

Yes, as many here know, I have had many very very negative experiences with teachers and school administrators. But, I would never go out and make blanket statements about them as a profession.

I do feel that our educational system is way out of control and I see many systemic and serious problems.

I will be glad when my son is no longer enrolled in school.

 

[aprilgail2]

No offense intended Daxx, but why would you bother going to college to earn 12K a year? Cashiers at the grocery stores around here make over $30K and at the old minimum wage (I can't remember the new one) you'd be making almost $11,000.

The starting salary for teachers in my area is close to 40k, but I live in a high cost of living area. The last time I saw a pay chart in the paper was a few years back, and the highest paid teachers were making close to six figures.

My friends daughter started in our district last year and starterd at 48,000. My brother is a teacher and he makes right now 98,000- for 185 days of work (only 180 actually teaching)!!!! I don't think 98,000 is a bad deal for a part time job! 500+ dollars a day- not a bad deal.
The only schools that pay poorly are the Catholic schools, those teacher don't make much but the public school teachers certainly make out ok around here!

 

[cardaway]

Q: When did teacher bashing become acceptable?

A: When they decided that nobody was no longer allowed to question what they do with the children.

Of course not all teachers, it would be wrong to lump them all together, just like it's wrong to ignore that some teachers deserve a little bashing.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't bash teachers and don't agree with those who do. Certainly there are teachers who are inept or just plain wrong in their approach just like any profession but then the criticism should be reserved for those individuals and not all teachers. I have the utmost respect and admiration for the teaching profession as a whole.

 

[aprilgail2]

NYS has a STAR program for reduced school taxes. I can't quite remember how it works, but it's reduced taxes for homeowners who are below a specific income level and either have no children attending school currently or have no children at all. It's not a full tax write-off, but it is nice tax break for those who qualify. Again, we haven't ever used it but I know it's available. If you want specifics, google it. I don't happen to have them.

The Enhanced STAR program is for senior citizens making under a certain amount of money. I think the limit is like 32,000 for a single person a year and they get reductions in their property taxes, some actually do get to pay no school tax at all if they make little enough money (in the 20,000's).

 

[Mkrop]

and a pharmacist only counts pills

There was a thread asking if people knew and understood what you did for a living, most said people had no clue.

We all THINK we know how hard/or not hard it is for teachers bc we were once students and bc we have kids. I think this is dead wrong. I dont think we have a clue (even with all the volunteering I do) what goes on in the classroom with that particular mix of students day in and day out. Each year can be a easy or hard depending on the mix of students.

This year at DS9's school bc his teacher had just come back from ovarian cancer they decided to give her a bit of an ease back into teaching. They first started off by dividing the children up, and they put all of the "personalities" in the other class, and they also gave her a student teacher in the beg of the year. Well this worked out great for DS's class but not so much for the kids in the other class. There was no balance to the class and the "healthy" teacher wound up with a very difficult school year bc there was no balance, I dont think she had a chance to do the job she is known for doing. She was still a great teacher but this particular year was her hardest ever.

I think hindsight made everyone, parents, teachers and the pricipal rethink that "brilliant" idea

 

[mrsltg]

This is quite a thread. OP, here's your answer about teacher bashing. No one's bashing, but it seems to me there are a lot of teachers roaming around these boards with thin skin. Because someone says, "My kid has 2 hours of homework per night. How in the world am I supposed to get that done," does not mean they are teacher bashing. Because someone calls into question a decision a teacher in their child's life has made, does not mean they hate teachers and think they are worthless. Some of your posts are martyrdom at its purist.

For everyone else - raise your hand if you think you are always respected in your profession. Raise your hand if you feel, everyday, you are paid what you are worth. I know my hand is not going up. However, I chose my career having a fairly decent expectation of what I'd get out of it. When I graduated college I made $15k working on Capitol Hill for anywhere between 40-90 hours per week. I knew what I was getting into when I took the job, and I lived for Congressional recess simply so I could work 40 hours instead of the peak number. Fair enough. It was my choice. I, too, got calls from people telling me they paid my salary. Whatever. As long as I am getting a check I don't care!

As far as standards are concerned, yeah, they pretty well stink now. HOWEVER, let's not be historically blind. If the educational system had not been such a cluster (you know what) for so long the standards would not have been mandated. If there weren't 5th graders who had been promoted even though they do not have the ability to read, there wouldn't be a problem. This legislation was a reaction (as all bad legislation is ) rather than proacitivity. The blame is to be shared equally.