When did teacher bashing become acceptable?

[CheshireVal]

Get your name on the list and wait. Unless you have an in it takes about 6 years of almost full time subbing to get on the short list to get interviewed and hopefully by subbing at one or 2 schools you will befriend a teacher who will put in a good word for you to the principal and the hiring committee of teachers.

But you won't be making $60k.

 

[JoyG]

Frankly I can't image why anyone would take a job, especially one that requires a college degree, for 12k.

But, as another poster said, no one put a gun to their head and made them do it either. I maintain my position--teaching is a job and is no more or less inherently "special" or praiseworthy than any other job.

I worked in a christian school my first year of teaching (in the same area Daxx lives) and I only made 10k a year. It was way less than it cost me to go to college the first year.

It was neccessary in my case to take that job to gain experience in order to possibly find a better paying teaching job.

I found that there were two kinds of people teaching in christian schools...new teachers fresh out of college just passing through and veteren teachers who feel called to teach in christian schools. The veterans are there not for the money but because of their commitment to religious education.

I had to leave after one year because I realized there was no way I could raise a family, buy a house or pay my bills on that salary.

 

[TKERBELL]

I will be working for a woman who was so fed up with the school system in HER area that her daughter graduated thru an online correspondence school.....yep folks that is what will eventually happen - online K-12 - my prediction for what the future MAY hold (lets face it you can already get your AS, BS/BA, MS, PhD online, complete with a cap & gown ceremony and you can get a ministers license online)

For English - Press 1
For Math - Press 2
For History - Press 3
For Physical Ed. - Press 4......and so forth

Seriously why can't it happen - it has been happening with almost every industry/profession out there - I can get law advice online and represent myself in court - I can diagnose my illness on webmd, I can even confess my sins and get penence online - so why would be so far fetched that education couldn't be done the same way

On a more realistic and planet earth note - I must say that I have 4 children, an upcoming 11th grader, an upcoming 8th grader, an upcoming 6th grader and an upcoming 1st grader and thus far ANY issues I have had with ANY teachers I been able to resolve simply by asking for and getting a parent/teacher conference to include the guidance counselor and at least a vice principal and asking one question "What do you need from my husband & I to help make my child successful in your class?" Yep you heard it hear folks - I actually get involved in my childrens' education and I do all this without bashing anyone. I am NOT implying that anyone here who posted doesn't do the same for thier child - I am simply stating that as a parent of 4 children at different levels in school - I recognize my responsibilty in my childrens' education.

Not all teachers rock - but the ones that do REALLY DO!!!! Keep up the good work.....

 

[MM27]

I am correct....come work in NJ.. best place for anyone who teaches.
union very very strong. 100% free healthcare., pension, benefits, unused vacation time and sick time gets carried over to the next year... so conceivably after 20 yrs in the system you can retire a year in advance with full pay by using your unused sick time. hmmm.. can't recall one job in the public sector that allows that. I believe in public life, if you do not use your sick time in the fiscal year, you lose it.

And, once a teacher is tenured you can sit at your desk for 8 hours sleeping and never get fired.... takes an act of god to get you out. hmmm...are you afforded that same scenario in the public workforce. I think not......


or better yet, in my town, you can have a life threatening disease and come to work every other day, not be forced to go out on sick leave because then you would not collect full salary. Now isn't that nice for a room full of disabled second graders who cannot take change and had to deal with a different substitue twice a week.

Like I said a teachers life is grand in NJ

NJ teacher here.
Actually you have to work 25 years and be 55 years old to get the full retirement. Did you also know that police and firemen in NJ also get full benefits when they retire? Actually there are many similarities between these professions. Nobody seems to have an issue with them though.

As I said in a previous post, everyone that has an issue with teachers seems to have a personal issue that causes this hatred of teachers as I can see in your post.

Is it just the teachers you hate so much or is also the principals and superintendents? Because if you think we have these wonderful salaries and benefits, you should see what they get

 

[Hannathy]

How many teachers do you know personally who make $60,000?
And many (not all) teachers do work on weekends and holidays by coaching and sponsoring extracurriculars, not to mention lesson planning and grading.

Personally at least 20 and they teach in 3 different states. Of course one did retire 3 yrs ago and she was making $85,000 in PA.

When they coach or do extra curriculars they are paid over their base salary.

 

[Daxx]

Wow, where's that $60,000 job? I'll take it.

Dang -- where's that job? That's about what principals in the richy-rich public schools in the burbs make. And, it's not their starting salary, either.

The only bashing I really see to teachers is when they go on strike and they complain about their salaries and benefits, which in some cases is a lot better than their constituents that pay their taxes to the school district. The district next to us was going to strike becuase the two sides couldn't agree on salary where the difference between what was offered and what the teachers wanted was 0.5%. Really, is it worth it to strike over a 0.5% difference.

Uh, what's a strike? If we went on strike, they'd just hire new people and ignore us. If we don't get a raise, we either quit or accept it. No way to fight it. We have no union, so no backing.

I will never forget the back-to-school meeting when our principal told us: "I told Pastor that the teachers all agreed that they'd give up their pay raise this year since enrollment was down". Uh - are you smoking crack b/c I NEVER agreed to that! What could I do? I just sat there w/everyone else, keeping my mouth shut and thinking the same thing -- "Are you kidding me! When did I say that!?!"

 

[SavvyMom]

That actually makes it sound worse as far as defending teachers because now you have someone working -lets round up in favor of the teachers- 10 months for $60,000 with at least 3 weeks of vacation time in that 10 months plus 2 personal days and ample sick time and average if not less working hours, which also don't include weekends, or holidays. $6,000 a month isn't bad. And that still leaves you 2 month to work if you so choose.

Let's regroup. I did not start this threat to fuss about how much or how little teachers make. I net approx. 2200.00/month. I get 1 sick day per month and 3 personal leave days per year. I do sign a contract each year, but I do not have "tenure". I understand that some teachers have better benefits than I do. My point was this: most (I said most) teachers have the children's best interests at heart. We (teachers) are not to blame for many of the problems facing education today. The learning disabled, autistic, non-english speaking student is expected to make the same progress as any other child (NCLB). Teachers (most teachers) work hard to make this happen. We love your children. My question was why is it so acceptable to bash the person that has dedicated his/her life to the education of your child? When I was a kid, my teacher was right no matter what. I was required by my parents to respect my teacher as a symbol of authority. This is not the case anymore. Teachers are just one more target. Do I deserve unquestionable respect? No, of course not.

 

[CheshireVal]

When they coach or do extra curriculars they are paid over their base salary.

Not true in all cases. I can attest.

Do you work in a school? Are you a teacher? Unless you are, you can't have the definitive word on salaries and benefits. Sorry.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Do you work in a school? Are you a teacher? Unless you are, you can't have the definitive word on salaries and benefits. Sorry.
__________________

why not? Teacher salaries and contract info are Public documents here. There is even a website that publishes the annual salaries of every teacher in the State of Illinois.

btw, move up here with a Master's Degree and you'll find a $60k job.

 

[Daxx]

When they coach or do extra curriculars they are paid over their base salary.

Seriously? I know that my neighbor, who teaches for a 'burb school and coaches football, does not get paid extra for coaching.

I coach the cheerleaders and run the drama club at school. Know what I get? A big fat zero -- and an occassional thanks from the kids. But, I'm totally ok w/that! They enjoy it, so that's my payment.

 

[CheshireVal]

why not? Teacher salaries and contract info are Public documents here. There is even a website that publishes the annual salaries of every teacher in the State of Illinois.

Those exist here, too, but it doesn't list the pay for extracurriculars. Mostly because those are decided by individual principals, and some activities are deemed worthy of extra pay, and some aren't. Sometimes there just isn't budget for it, either.

I guess my point is it just burns me when people think that teaching is an 8-3 job with nothing in the evenings or weekends. The truth is many (not all) teachers put in lots of "overtime" hours without seeing any extra money. They do it because they love the job and they have an important job to do.

The fact that there are 2 months off in the summer doesn't always make up for sometimes working 12+ hour days during the rest of the year. Working with kids is emotionally draining. I've done both-- education and "business." There are pros and cons to both but I've never been so exhausted as when I was working with kids all day.

 

[dimimi]

Just to clear up one point. Teachers DO NOT get paid vacations. We are paid for working 186 days per year. We do get paid sick days which are decided upon by the state and we can take up to 3 approved personal days. If they do not approve them, you take the time without pay. Our only "true" vacation day would be a snow day. I love teaching and I am fortunate to be paid well, however, we are not paid in the summer for not working, our pay for our 186 days are divided throughout the year and we do not have vacation days.

 

[minijeanie]

NJ teacher here.
Actually you have to work 25 years and be 55 years old to get the full retirement. Did you also know that police and firemen in NJ also get full benefits when they retire? Actually there are many similarities between these professions. Nobody seems to have an issue with them though.

As I said in a previous post, everyone that has an issue with teachers seems to have a personal issue that causes this hatred of teachers as I can see in your post.

Is it just the teachers you hate so much or is also the principals and superintendents? Because if you think we have these wonderful salaries and benefits, you should see what they get

I don't need a fireman every day or a policeman every day....I need a teacher who will show up every day and teach my child. I pay over $12K a year to do that and I don't get that service.

I have had to call the police once in my life and they responded in 5 minutes. By the same token, I have left messages for children's teachers to call me back. I have gotten no response. My sons teacher was to busy being pregnant to teach and I could not get her to call me back when he was having difficulty with Alegbra. I was forced to call the principal. However she was not available to come to the meeting. Seems she was out that day...seems she was out half the year....


No I don't dislike all teachers,.My kids have had great ones. I would pay more taxes if we could boot out all the bad ones and just keep the good ones.

I would pay premium for the best. Unfortunately I pay premium now and only have half the best. In high school it is the role of the dice whom you get...
and if it is a bad one...my DH & myself wind up teaching him/her the subject matter so that they can pass.

And you call this fair?

and btw, I would love to retire at 55 with just 25 yrs of service. I am 52, with no pension so it seems like I will have to work till 75 just to make ends meet.

I would be in heaven if I was in your situation

 

[SavvyMom]

Seriously? I know that my neighbor, who teaches for a 'burb school and coaches football, does not get paid extra for coaching.

I coach the cheerleaders and run the drama club at school. Know what I get? A big fat zero -- and an occassional thanks from the kids. But, I'm totally ok w/that! They enjoy it, so that's my payment.

That's what people need to understand!!! Thank you for saying it!! We do get a salary and time off. I would NOT do this job without the satisfaction of the job. Teachers teach because we have to. It is our calling. Don't hate us because of that. We love your children and it is your children that make it worthwhile. It's not the money, the time off, or the benefits. It is the children. Please remember that.

 

[CheshireVal]

I don't need a fireman every day or a policeman every day....I need a teacher who will show up every day and teach my child. I pay over $12K a year to do that and I don't get that service.

I have had to call the police once in my life and they responded in 5 minutes. By the same token, I have left messages for children's teachers to call me back. I have gotten no response. My sons teacher was to busy being pregnant to teach and I could not get her to call me back when he was having difficulty with Alegbra. I was forced to call the principal. However she was not available to come to the meeting. Seems she was out that day...seems she was out half the year....


No I don't dislike all teachers,.My kids have had great ones. I would pay more taxes if we could boot out all the bad ones and just keep the good ones.

I would pay premium for the best. Unfortunately I pay premium now and only have half the best. In high school it is the role of the dice whom you get...
and if it is a bad one...my DH & myself wind up teaching him/her the subject matter so that they can pass.

And you call this fair?

and btw, I would love to retire at 55 with just 25 yrs of service. I am 52, with no pension so it seems like I will have to work till 75 just to make ends meet.

I would be in heaven if I was in your situation

There are good and bad teachers just like there are good and bad cops.Just like there are good and bad performers in every job.

Heck, I pay school taxes and I don't even *have* kids.

 

[pearlieq]

btw, move up here with a Master's Degree and you'll find a $60k job.

Exactly. My aunt and uncle (she a middle school guidance counselor with a masters and ~25 years of experience and he a middle schools social studies teacher ABD and ~25 years of experience) are pulling down 100k each. Neither does extra curriculars anymore and he's going to retire next year at 58. Not a bad setup, if you ask me.

My neighbor, who teachers gym and drivers ed (masters, 7 years experience) makes 75k.


Here's a link to IL's database and specifically a link to average teacher salaries. There are some very low averages downstate, but in the Chicagoland area they're pretty high.

http://www.thechampion.org/teachers...r+Employee+Name&option=Average+Teacher+Salary

 

[minijeanie]

There are good and bad teachers just like there are good and bad cops.Just like there are good and bad performers in every job.

Heck, I pay school taxes and I don't even *have* kids.

trust me you would feel differently if you had children and you seen them with a teacher who should be fire.


and for the record, I think it is horrible that homeowners without children are forced to pay the same tax as parents. It is totally wrong. Our government needs to address this issue and do a whole revamp on taxes. okay I am done ranting for the evening

 

[MM27]

I don't need a fireman every day or a policeman every day....I need a teacher who will show up every day and teach my child. I pay over $12K a year to do that and I don't get that service.

I have had to call the police once in my life and they responded in 5 minutes. By the same token, I have left messages for children's teachers to call me back. I have gotten no response. My sons teacher was to busy being pregnant to teach and I could not get her to call me back when he was having difficulty with Alegbra. I was forced to call the principal. However she was not available to come to the meeting. Seems she was out that day...seems she was out half the year....


No I don't dislike all teachers,.My kids have had great ones. I would pay more taxes if we could boot out all the bad ones and just keep the good ones.

I would pay premium for the best. Unfortunately I pay premium now and only have half the best. In high school it is the role of the dice whom you get...
and if it is a bad one...my DH & myself wind up teaching him/her the subject matter so that they can pass.

And you call this fair?

and btw, I would love to retire at 55 with just 25 yrs of service. I am 52, with no pension so it seems like I will have to work till 75 just to make ends meet.

I would be in heaven if I was in your situation

Guess you picked the wrong profession then. And those taxes you pay don't just go towards education. And the portion that does is not just going toward teacher salaries. Again, a bad experience with a teacher is setting up a negative image of teachers in general. That horrible teacher...How dare her get pregnant, what was she thinking. I guess that will be the next contract item we fight over. Ladies, you may not start families until you have reached the retirement age, but don't worry because your benefits will still be available for you.

 

[DisneygirlTeacher]

I agree and when you throw in the guaranteed raises every year, the incredible benefits, including ridiculously low retirement age, job security-it is almost impossible to fire a teacher in a strong union state, and I'll throw in short actual work hours -our elem teachers average less than 5 hours a day of actual teaching/being with the kids. It is an excellent job. If it wasn't such a good job why is it so hard to get a teaching position except for in inner city schools?



I have been a teacher for 27 years. It is one of the most rewarding jobs and most difficult jobs out there. I am responding because I'd like to set some things straight. I remember people laughing when I told them what I made. They just couldn't believe it was that low. I have had many, many years with NO raise because our system likes to spend it "at the top"...in other words, too many "desk sitters" that never interact with children. Our benefits are not great and we all pay outrageous amounts to have our family on our insurance and when we retire it is incredibly expensive.
Our "ridiculously low retirement age" is after working 30 years. Job security I agree with as they stuff my class to way over capacity because they can't count the number they are sending us. I have too few desks, supplies and space for my little ones. I have already spent several hundred dollars on things for my classroom that are not provided. In the past, I have bought shoes, clothes and books for children that have nothing. I can't tell you how many families we provided Christmas for over the years. One of the best things is now students I had years and years ago are now coming to see me with THEIR children! I have truly enjoyed my students over the years. They come to me not reading or writing or understanding math and leave knowing so much. That is the joy...seeing at the end of the year how far they have come. The fact that many parents don't read with their children or provide for their children is a fact of life. I have seen more sad things in my teaching career then I ever thought I would. The truth is I live not two hours from Disney World and few of my students will ever be able to afford to go. Many times my job breaks my heart. The stresses we face are endless. I have seen many, many beginning teachers give up. No one that isn't in the classroom can begin to understand what we face. I, for one, will not give up. I will continue to stand up for teachers and love and enjoy my kids. Easy job???? Never. Hardest job you'll ever love???? Maybe..if you have what it takes and can ignore the ignorance about what you REALLY do.

 

[momm2four]

Our only "true" vacation day would be a snow day.

Heck, we don't even get those here. About 10 years ago, our system added about 30 extra minutes to each day with no pay raise. The reason for this was to build around 11 "snow" days in to our schedule.

If we missed school for snow, it was no big deal b/c the days were there to be used. HOWEVER, in the past several years, Chattanooga has had practically NO snow, so we didn't use them.

The stinker is that if we don't use them, we don't get out early at the end of the year, we just eat having to work the days for the same pay that we would have without the extra days.

Oh, and I'd love one of those $60,000 jobs. I'd even settle for a $50,000 one, lol. Here in Chattanooga, I'm pulling in $39,450 (it's public info) for 10 years of experience with a BS degree. Top level here would be a doctorate with 25 years of experience. That would give you a grand total of $56,501!

Anyway...it's all good! I love my job, I love my students, and I have some wonderful, caring parents this year who make me feel so special.

Lori P.