When did teacher bashing become acceptable?

[Minnie_me]

Hrm, considering that was a grammatical error by the poster and not a spelling error I fail to see the humor in your jab.

Hrm, yourself. It's a spelling error. She (he?) misspelled the word "knew".

 

[MrsPete]

It sounds like you get a lot more funding to get your teaching certification. There are a few scholarship opportunities here and some grants if you choose to teach in certain areas, but most people end up paying the ridiculously high college tuition-- basically the same cost as a student would pay who is in business, engineering, pharmacy school, etc.

Just a financial warning to anyone working towards a teaching degree: the Student Teaching semester is a killer. You have to dress professionally, provide your transportation to school every day, pay university tuition . . . but you don't get a paycheck, and you're not allowed to hold down a part-time job during student teaching!

Because I was young and inexperienced financially, I didn't realize how tough this was going to be until about one semester before I started student teaching. If I'd realized it sooner, I would've done some things to start preparing: maybe I could've started searching for professional clothes on clearance or at Goodwill far in advance, maybe I could've tried to save a little more in advance. But that semester's a killer! (My roommates were in the same boat with student nursing, but they had parents who were paying their education, so they weren't quite as desperate as I was!)

. . . I'm a happy girl! I just get ticked off when people tell me how easy I have it. Like they know!

My sentiments exactly! I don't know many specifics about the jobs of CPAs, social workers, construction workers, bankers, etc. -- so I don't go around making judgements about their work, pay, benefits, etc. Yet people feel sure that because they went to school, they know everything about teacher's jobs!

I've been teaching for over 20 years, and I don't know one single teacher who drives a BMW or Hummer (or a Lexus, or a Mercedes, or any other luxury vehicle you can name).

I know two. One's husband owns his own plumbing business, while the other's husband owns a car dealership. (If you were to come to my school, you could count more luxury cars in the student parking lot than you could in the teacher parking lot!) As a general rule of thumb, most teachers seem to "marry well", and many of them have husbands who make good salaries. Of course, that's painting with a broad brush -- it's certainly not true of all teachers. Most also are rather thrifty people who know how to spend their limited incomes carefully; my depression-era grandmother always says I'm the cheapest person she knows and that I know how to spend every dollar twice.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

I'd really like to see that worked out on paper. I also have two preps, don't do lunch or recess duties, and yet --- I have 5 contact hours with my students daily. Here's the math:

School hours: 8:55 - 3:25 (6.5 hours)
Lunch - 30 minutes (6.0 hours)
Recess - 30 minutes (5.5 hours)
Special class (art, music, PE, library) - 30 minutes (5 hours)

I can't imagine how teachers are spending too much less than that.

Why *should* I have lunch, hall and recess duty? You try to eat lunch with a roomful of elementary school students. Not very conducive to good digestion! The special class is my morning planning time, recess is my afternoon planning time. Lemme tell ya - - if my kids had to rely on me to take them outside, they'd never go unless the temperature was over 65! I don't like the cold, and yet I live in Western NYS -- go figure! Our playground monitors take them out all winter long - YIPPEE!!! -- the kids love it!

I'm a professional and I deserve to be treated like one.

Well, I never said you "should" do any of it - I was clarifying how it is in my district because other teachers have posted here that they "have" to do what you believe you "should" not do.

Our kids have the following specials each day (if there is a slash - that means the kids have one of those specials each day and they alternate):

Day is from 9:15 - 3:25 aka 6 hours, 10 minutes

Art/Music - 40 minutes
Spanish - 40 minutes
Lunch/Recess - 1 hour combined
Phys Ed/Health - 40 minutes
Library/Computer - 40 minutes

Teachers use two of these as prep periods. The rest of the time is theirs to do what they please - grade papers, call parents, go out to lunch, whatever.

Not much work goes home since they are able to get most of it done during school hours.

Some teachers will pick one day a week to have their kids eat lunch with them in the classroom - many use a reward or certificate program to do this and the kids love it.

The 2 1/2 hours must cover, reading, writing, social studies, math, etc. A good portion of that time is spent preparing for NYS standardized tests. My son had one teacher who also managed to squeeze in 30 minutes of "free time" at the end of the day (after only having the kids for a stinking 2 hours). Drove me nuts - 40 minutes of phys ed and 30 or so minutes of recess and they needed another 30 minutes to run outside the classroom?

Not very professional, if you ask me.

So, that's it on paper.

 

[MrsPete]

Art/Music - 40 minutes
Spanish - 40 minutes
Lunch/Recess - 1 hour combined
Phys Ed/Health - 40 minutes
Library/Computer - 40 minutes

Are you sure they do these things EVERY DAY? My daughter has art one week and music the next week, library every Tuesday, computer every Monday -- I don't know all the details off the top of my head, but NO kids around here have this many specials.

I also don't know of any teachers who are allowed to go out to lunch. We have 26 minutes, and one week a month we spend that in the cafeteria supervising the students (no bathroom break that week).

Drove me nuts - 40 minutes of phys ed and 30 or so minutes of recess and they needed another 30 minutes to run outside the classroom?

I actually think kids NEED more time to run and play on the playground. We see lots these days about childhood obesity and the diseases that come along with it. Because of the world we live in, many kids aren't allowed to go out and play in their neighborhoods after school. I think some kids who are borderline ADD/ADHD could improve if they had more physical activity during the course of the day.

I wish middle schoolers had recess. They look like teens, but they're really still little kids inside (Believe me! I have one, and she and her friends are not nearly so grown-up as they appear.) I think many of them would do better in school if they had a little bit of time to run and get rid of some energy.

I'm not saying that we should sacrafice core subject time: reading and math, of course, should be at the top of the elementary school "to do" list. But I don't think playground time is all about the teacher having 30 minutes to sit and chat.

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

Art/Music - 40 minutes
Spanish - 40 minutes
Lunch/Recess - 1 hour combined
Phys Ed/Health - 40 minutes
Library/Computer - 40 minutes

...
The 2 1/2 hours must cover, reading, writing, social studies, math, etc.

So you're telling us that your kids spend 160 minutes a day on art/spanish/phys ed and library, while they only spend 150 minutes a day on the basics of reading, writing, socials, math, and science? If this is really true, then there is something definitely wrong with this system and its priorities, IMHO.

My kids get two phys. ed/health blocks a week; one library session a week; one computer session (supervised by their own teacher); and French three times a week.

Elementary teachers here are entitled to 160 minutes of prep time a week. High school teachers get 1 block out of 8 for prep., which means that one semester my contact time is 3h, 55 min a day, the other is 5 h 15 min a day.

 

[CheshireVal]

Hrm, considering that was a grammatical error by the poster and not a spelling error I fail to see the humor in your jab.

The username itself is actually a spelling error. Shouldn't it be my2cents?

 

[TinkerbellMama]

I don't bash teachers. I DO bash the public school system, which is in dire straits and (IMO) nearly unfixable with its current philosophy. No Child Left Behind, my butt! At any rate, my family opts out of it so it doesn't directly affect me--I try to avoid the topic entirely, for the most part. Most teachers I know are hardworking, dedicated, wonderful people who truly want to help children succeed and make a difference in society. I think that is admirable. Most of them are also intelligent, warm people who go above and beyond for their students. However, it is not the sainthood, and a few teachers may be responsible for giving others a bad name. Such as my brother's first grade teacher, who was disciplined for taping kids' mouths shut!!!! Can you imagine???? This was in the early '80s. Clearly, today she would not only be terminated immediately but possibly arrested and sued.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

I have never witnessed so much disdain for people that spend 7+ hours a day with your children Your babies. Your flesh and blood. Your most prized possession.

Personally, I could never send my children to spend hours and hours with someone that I felt so negative about

I am so happy to live where I live and have the teachers that my children have. I love each and every one of them and I wished they were paid more

I agree with your first two paragraphs WHOLEHEARTEDLY. I find it sickening that people would send their precious children to be with people they can't stand all day. They spend more awake time with the teachers than their parents, in many if not most situations (assuming the kids have normal bedtimes and the parents/kids aren't around each other every minute of every weekend). To think that they don't mind having people they don't like or respect influencing their kids is awful.
The only reason I don't agree with your third paragraph is that I don't (and never will) have a child in school.
But you are right on!

 

[TinkerbellMama]

And, who taught the farmer to read, write and do arithmetic so he could properly run his business?

Lemme see ... could it have been a teacher?!??!

No ... I suppose he just learned that stuff on his own!

I often hear this type of argument, but I really did learn to do ALL of those things before I ever started Kindergarten. (I did not attend preschool.) My mother says I picked most of it up from watching Sesame Street or copying her. Just a different perspective on the "teachers taught everyone everything they know" line.
Again, I respect teachers and think they are trying to do a very noble thing. I do not, however, think they have the most important profession in our society. Not by a longshot, actually. But that is JMO.

 

[KirklandTutu]

I actually think kids NEED more time to run and play on the playground. We see lots these days about childhood obesity and the diseases that come along with it. Because of the world we live in, many kids aren't allowed to go out and play in their neighborhoods after school. I think some kids who are borderline ADD/ADHD could improve if they had more physical activity during the course of the day.

It would surprise alot of people just how big of an issue this is. It's not just about obesity (although that is such a big problem). Lack of movement does have a profound impact on emotional development and reading comprehension as well as language, mathmatical, and social skills. Progressive teachers and school principals are starting to intigrate movement into classroom lessons as a way to engage the students brains before the 'actual' learning begins.

Years and years ago (1970s) there was a study done in re. to developing nations and why it was so difficult to teach children to read and comprehend. What it came down to was that if you don't let your child crawl (and in a developing nation that can be a dangerous thing, to crawl, snakes and rats are on the ground) there is a brain pathway that doesn't connect that relates directly to reading comprehension. Fastforward thirty years and the same thing is being seen again, only in the U.S. Experts point to children being carted around in child carriers without enough time left to free movement.

Studies over and over have shown that the more physically active a child is, the more likely they will perform well in school.

Come to think of it, studies over and over also say that the more exposure to art and music a child is, the more likely they will perform well in school, also.

 

[Pinnie]

It would surprise alot of people just how big of an issue this is. It's not just about obesity (although that is such a big problem). Lack of movement does have a profound impact on emotional development and reading comprehension as well as language, mathmatical, and social skills. Progressive teachers and school principals are starting to intigrate movement into classroom lessons as a way to engage the students brains before the 'actual' learning begins.

Years and years ago (1970s) there was a study done in re. to developing nations and why it was so difficult to teach children to read and comprehend. What it came down to was that if you don't let your child crawl (and in a developing nation that can be a dangerous thing, to crawl, snakes and rats are on the ground) there is a brain pathway that doesn't connect that relates directly to reading comprehension. Fastforward thirty years and the same thing is being seen again, only in the U.S. Experts point to children being carted around in child carriers without enough time left to free movement.

Studies over and over have shown that the more physically active a child is, the more likely they will perform well in school.

Come to think of it, studies over and over also say that the more exposure to art and music a child is, the more likely they will perform well in school, also.

You are SO right! Look at playgrounds nowadays. Where are the spinning things? We took them away because we feared lawsuits. They stimulated the vestibular area of the brain. Kids naturally flock to walking on those curb cuts in parking lots because they inherintly know they need to practice balance so they can visually track!

This summer, I attended a conference on "Motor Moms and Dads" which brings back Sit and Spins, balance beams, etc. to early childhood classrooms. OTs are stressing BRAIN GYM, and to ge those babies on the floors to crawl. They are also saying that fine motor skills are lacking because the area of the palm is developed when the child crawls. Kids aren't crawling as much because they are in those carriers, so they are having trouble with small motor tasks such as pencil grasp and pincer grasp.


pinnie

 

[swilphil]

Day is from 9:15 - 3:25 aka 6 hours, 10 minutes

Art/Music - 40 minutes
Spanish - 40 minutes
Lunch/Recess - 1 hour combined
Phys Ed/Health - 40 minutes
Library/Computer - 40 minutes

There no way this could be EVERY day, especially if it's a school that has more than one class at each grade level. Even with that you would have to have at least 2 people teaching art, music, spanish, and pe/health.

And a school day from 9:15 to 3:25? Our students go from 7:40 to 2:40, and my 1st grader goes from 8:50 to 3:50.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

So you're telling us that your kids spend 160 minutes a day on art/spanish/phys ed and library, while they only spend 150 minutes a day on the basics of reading, writing, socials, math, and science? If this is really true, then there is something definitely wrong with this system and its priorities, IMHO.

My kids get two phys. ed/health blocks a week; one library session a week; one computer session (supervised by their own teacher); and French three times a week.

Elementary teachers here are entitled to 160 minutes of prep time a week. High school teachers get 1 block out of 8 for prep., which means that one semester my contact time is 3h, 55 min a day, the other is 5 h 15 min a day.

Yes, this is exactly how it goes down - our Board of Ed gave away the store during the last contract negotiations. Our kids have more specials than nearly any other district on Long Island. Initially - these things looked good on our glossy brochures and in promoting our school district. Couple that with the overemphasis on standardized testing, a wealthy district where parents will make up the difference with tutors and we have a disaster in the making in one of the toprated school districts in the country.

You all have to remember that we have teachers for all these other subjects as well -

Phys Ed & Health Teachers
Spanish Teacher
Computer Teacher
Librarian
Art Teachers
Music Teachers

It's funny - when we made the decision to homeschool our daughter (which is a foreign concept in our area) - people said to me, "Will you have the time?"

I laughed and said, "As long as I spend more than 2 1/2 hours - I'm already ahead of the status quo."

What the kids don't get in school - the parents will spend thousands of dollars on tutors to make up. There seems to be a growing call to spend more time in the classroom and less time at specials (and assemblies, etc.) by a group of parents. Unfortunately - the contract is done and there's nearly no way they'll get any givebacks from the union without paying very dearly for them.

Between the emphasis on standardized tests and the "fluff" as I like to call it - I find the education my daughter is receiving to be far inferior to the education my oldest son received (when he spent nearly 3 3/4 hours a day with his teacher). A big reason why, even after having $12,000 of my property tax bill going directly to "school taxes", we are home educating our daughter.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

There no way this could be EVERY day, especially if it's a school that has more than one class at each grade level. Even with that you would have to have at least 2 people teaching art, music, spanish, and pe/health.

And a school day from 9:15 to 3:25? Our students go from 7:40 to 2:40, and my 1st grader goes from 8:50 to 3:50.

Yes, it is EVERY DAY. It's ridiculous. We have about 90-100 children on each grade level.

We currently have:

Two art teachers
Two music teachers (the best teachers in the whole school, imo)
Two computer teachers plus assistants
One librarian plus two assistants (who read to the children - help with book selection)
Four Phys Ed teachers - they also teach the health class
One Spanish teacher (they double up the class) - this class alternates with another class and I just can't remember what it is - I want to say character education - but I'm not sure.

Nearly every classroom has at least one teacher assistant.

We also have a Science Lab and a Math Lab that the kids get pulled out for. I think they spend more time walking the hallways than doing anything else.

The bus comes to my house at 9am and returns home at 3:40pm. The day is 9:15 - 3:25 (really 3:15 - the busses leave at 3:25 - some teachers pack up at 3:00).

All of the above is why I am saying that when SOME people complain about teachers complaining - they have a very valid reason.

It has become a big controversy in our district - rightfully so. What happens though - is when people are concerned their children are not receiving enough contact time with their primary teachers - and demand more - the teachers take it as a personal assault - and that could be perceived as "teacher bashing". It's happening here - some of you are all self-righteous and even doubting what I am saying - and getting your panties in a wad, while I'm the one homeschooling my daughter because I find this whole new way of educating our children to be completely unacceptable. NOT ONCE have I bashed a teacher -

I have not said one bad thing about any of the teachers in the district - in fact, the ones that piss me off are the Board of Education who didn't hold their ground for the sake of the children and who have put our standardized test score standings in Newsday above all else.

From my first post on this thread, I have said over and over, people's perception on this issue will be regional. Using my school district as an example - you can see why.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

Are you sure they do these things EVERY DAY? My daughter has art one week and music the next week, library every Tuesday, computer every Monday -- I don't know all the details off the top of my head, but NO kids around here have this many specials.

I also don't know of any teachers who are allowed to go out to lunch. We have 26 minutes, and one week a month we spend that in the cafeteria supervising the students (no bathroom break that week). I actually think kids NEED more time to run and play on the playground. We see lots these days about childhood obesity and the diseases that come along with it. Because of the world we live in, many kids aren't allowed to go out and play in their neighborhoods after school. I think some kids who are borderline ADD/ADHD could improve if they had more physical activity during the course of the day.

I wish middle schoolers had recess. They look like teens, but they're really still little kids inside (Believe me! I have one, and she and her friends are not nearly so grown-up as they appear.) I think many of them would do better in school if they had a little bit of time to run and get rid of some energy.

I'm not saying that we should sacrafice core subject time: reading and math, of course, should be at the top of the elementary school "to do" list. But I don't think playground time is all about the teacher having 30 minutes to sit and chat.

Yes - for the last time - EVERY DAY. I'm very sure. I've lived it.

Teachers are allowed to do whatever they want on their free time. THey only need to sign out.

I think - after 40 minutes of phys ed and 30 minutes of recess - 70 minutes of running around time out of a 370 minute school day - they don't "need" to spend the LAST 30 minutes of the day running around. They need to spend the last 30 minutes of the day going over what they did that day, making sure they're organized and ready to go home - and maybe read a book or learn something.

 

[SavvyMom]

Yes, it is EVERY DAY. It's ridiculous. We have about 90-100 children on each grade level.

We currently have:

Two art teachers
Two music teachers (the best teachers in the whole school, imo)
Two computer teachers plus assistants
One librarian plus two assistants (who read to the children - help with book selection)
Four Phys Ed teachers - they also teach the health class
One Spanish teacher (they double up the class) - this class alternates with another class and I just can't remember what it is - I want to say character education - but I'm not sure.

Nearly every classroom has at least one teacher assistant.

We also have a Science Lab and a Math Lab that the kids get pulled out for. I think they spend more time walking the hallways than doing anything else.

The bus comes to my house at 9am and returns home at 3:40pm. The day is 9:15 - 3:25 (really 3:15 - the busses leave at 3:25 - some teachers pack up at 3:00).

All of the above is why I am saying that when SOME people complain about teachers complaining - they have a very valid reason.

It has become a big controversy in our district - rightfully so. What happens though - is when people are concerned their children are not receiving enough contact time with their primary teachers - and demand more - the teachers take it as a personal assault - and that could be perceived as "teacher bashing". It's happening here - some of you are all self-righteous and even doubting what I am saying - and getting your panties in a wad, while I'm the one homeschooling my daughter because I find this whole new way of educating our children to be completely unacceptable. NOT ONCE have I bashed a teacher -

I have not said one bad thing about any of the teachers in the district - in fact, the ones that piss me off are the Board of Education who didn't hold their ground for the sake of the children and who have put our standardized test score standings in Newsday above all else.

From my first post on this thread, I have said over and over, people's perception on this issue will be regional. Using my school district as an example - you can see why.

I can definitely see why you have negative feelings about your district. I do believe the specials subjects (art, music, computer, pe) are very important. However, I do not see how the primary teachers would put up with having their kids gone that long. It would drive me nuts! Teachers are accountable for test scores and academic achievement/growth. How could I adequately teach the standards in 2 hours per day. I couldn't. We have 40 minutes of specials each day and that's plenty IMO.

 

[MushyMushy]

Just a financial warning to anyone working towards a teaching degree: the Student Teaching semester is a killer. You have to dress professionally, provide your transportation to school every day, pay university tuition . . . but you don't get a paycheck, and you're not allowed to hold down a part-time job during student teaching!

Because I was young and inexperienced financially, I didn't realize how tough this was going to be until about one semester before I started student teaching. If I'd realized it sooner, I would've done some things to start preparing: maybe I could've started searching for professional clothes on clearance or at Goodwill far in advance, maybe I could've tried to save a little more in advance. But that semester's a killer! (My roommates were in the same boat with student nursing, but they had parents who were paying their education, so they weren't quite as desperate as I was!)

Yes! It definitely caught a lot of my classmates unawares and I know of one woman who was worried she might not be able to do her student teaching. I don't know what ever came of her. It wasn't a big hardship for us, but I still had to come up with close to $1000 when it was all said and done for all the things you mentioned (I had NO profession clothing whatsoever and had to start from scratch), plus I had to buy a lot of supplies and make a lot of my own copies for the students. My CT helped me there as much as she could, but the school's policy on copying was pretty strict and you needed a 2-week leeway for them.

 

[SavvyMom]

Just a financial warning to anyone working towards a teaching degree: the Student Teaching semester is a killer. You have to dress professionally, provide your transportation to school every day, pay university tuition . . . but you don't get a paycheck, and you're not allowed to hold down a part-time job during student teaching!

Two words - student loans. That's what I had to do. I'm still paying them back . We had to take two classes while we student taught. It was a killer, but it was worth it in the long run.

 

[MushyMushy]

Two words - student loans. That's what I had to do. I'm still paying them back . We had to take two classes while we student taught. It was a killer, but it was worth it in the long run.

My loans only covered tuition. Plus I used to get a tuition waiver every semester through my university and they didn't give waivers during student teaching -- right when we needed them most.

 

[Minnie_me]

I often hear this type of argument, but I really did learn to do ALL of those things before I ever started Kindergarten. (I did not attend preschool.) My mother says I picked most of it up from watching Sesame Street or copying her. Just a different perspective on the "teachers taught everyone everything they know" line.
Again, I respect teachers and think they are trying to do a very noble thing. I do not, however, think they have the most important profession in our society. Not by a longshot, actually. But that is JMO.

Wow!!!! You learned how to run a business and the science of agriculture before Kindergarten!?!? Just by watching Sesame Street?!? Gee, I thought Sesame Street was mostly about letter and numeral recognition.