Wheelchair Accident at MK

[BayouMickey]

Using that logic, tractor trailers should not be on the highways during rush hour. Now, you know that isn't going to happen. Trucks will be on the roads whenever they need to be, just as WCs and ECVs will be where they need to be at that time. And just as trucks can use care, while merging etc so can WCs and ECVs. Just as cars and motorcycles use care, so should all people exiting from the parks whether in a WC, ecv stroller or just walking. While driving, we need to be aware of our surroundings. We wouldn't cut across the lanes in front of a truck because we know what the consequences would be. And if a car or bicycle caused an accident, they would be held responsible. Size wouldn't matter. Charges would be laid. The same with pedestrians. Or people pushing something. We all need to be aware of our surroundings. Now, I'm not talking about 4 years olds, but everyone should be aware that their actions may have consequences.

Thank you! Sheesh!

 

[BayouMickey]

A privilege??? Seriously??

An ECV is a mobility device used to help a person move. It is essentially the "legs" of the user. A person at WDW has the "right" to navigate the parks because they bought a ticket to enter. To enter they need to use their "legs" or "wheels" to do so.

An alternative is a manual wheelchair which may not be practical. The user may be alone and not be able to push themselves or others in their party might not want to push them. Disney provides ECV's for rental to navigate their parks for these very reasons.

My boyfriend has Cerebral Palsy and uses a power wheelchair. He goes to WDW because of the accessibility. Fair and equal access is prevalent there.

There is no reason for him to have to leave a show early or move off to the side to let the crowds pass. People need to be aware of their surroundings.

We will make ADR's for the timeframe that fits our schedule not because the crowds might be thinner then. We should not be segregated to off times because of the crowds.

We do hang back after fireworks or Fantasmic, this is for HIS safety not the crowds. He has every right to go with the normal flow of the theme park on any given day and not have to yield to pedestrians all the time.

With your logic no one on an ECV would be able to tour The Osbourne Spectacle of Dancing Lights because it is almost always crowded. Sorry we will be going to see the lights just like every other family, able bodied or not.

Be responsible for your own safety and your own surroundings.

Finally someone who understands

 

[tazdev3225]

A privilege??? Seriously??

An ECV is a mobility device used to help a person move. It is essentially the "legs" of the user. A person at WDW has the "right" to navigate the parks because they bought a ticket to enter. To enter they need to use their "legs" or "wheels" to do so.

An alternative is a manual wheelchair which may not be practical. The user may be alone and not be able to push themselves or others in their party might not want to push them. Disney provides ECV's for rental to navigate their parks for these very reasons.

My boyfriend has Cerebral Palsy and uses a power wheelchair. He goes to WDW because of the accessibility. Fair and equal access is prevalent there.

There is no reason for him to have to leave a show early or move off to the side to let the crowds pass. People need to be aware of their surroundings.

We will make ADR's for the timeframe that fits our schedule not because the crowds might be thinner then. We should not be segregated to off times because of the crowds.

We do hang back after fireworks or Fantasmic, this is for HIS safety not the crowds. He has every right to go with the normal flow of the theme park on any given day and not have to yield to pedestrians all the time.

With your logic no one on an ECV would be able to tour The Osbourne Spectacle of Dancing Lights because it is almost always crowded. Sorry we will be going to see the lights just like every other family, able bodied or not.

Be responsible for your own safety and your own surroundings.

Thank you Tracy. You very eloquently made the points I was trying to make.

 

[dawnball]

Ask the captain if he assumes more responsiblity that the pilot of the tender boat that brings guests to shore. Ever been on a train? Ask an enginner who bares the most responsibility in making sure the track is clear at every interesction they encounter.

You do realize that the cruise ship has the right of way over the smaller, more maneuverable boat, right? That the tender is -required- to give way? And that when trains hit cars (or people), the train nearly universally isn't responsible? It's considered -completely- the fault of the person who didn't clear the tracks except in very rare circumstances.

 

[LSUfan4444]

Using that logic, tractor trailers should not be on the highways during rush hour.

The drivers of tractor trailers will do their best to avoid the busiest roads at the busiest times to reduce the probability of an accident. I am not implying 100% accordance is required, but there is often easy ways to achieve it and reduce things for yourself by not having to be in that hectic mess.

Just as cars and motorcycles use care, so should all people exiting from the parks whether in a WC, ecv stroller or just walking. While driving, we need to be aware of our surroundings. We wouldn't cut across the lanes in front of a truck because we know what the consequences would be. And if a car or bicycle caused an accident, they would be held responsible. Size wouldn't matter. Charges would be laid. The same with pedestrians. Or people pushing something. We all need to be aware of our surroundings.

I could not agree more.

A privilege??? Seriously??

An ECV is a mobility device used to help a person move. It is essentially the "legs" of the user. A person at WDW has the "right" to navigate the parks because they bought a ticket to enter. To enter they need to use their "legs" or "wheels" to do so.

Yes, a privelage, not a right. And it is a privelage I am so very thanksful for. Without us being given this privelage, myself, my daughter and our family would be without so many wonderful memories that we would not have been able to have because of the opportunity to use an ECV.

It being a privelage doesn't make it a bad thing.

An alternative is a manual wheelchair which may not be practical. The user may be alone and not be able to push themselves or others in their party might not want to push them. Disney provides ECV's for rental to navigate their parks for these very reasons.

I agree, alot of times a manual wheelchair is not a practical alternative, which makes having the opportunity to rent an ECV such a wonderful opportunity.

There is no reason for him to have to leave a show early or move off to the side to let the crowds pass.

I don't think any special timeframe is required, but we have learned through the years making a schedule that accomdates our ECV users certainly makes us more happy not having to deal with so much fuss. The use of a GAC card often makes up for time lost "waiting" to leave a show.

We will make ADR's for the timeframe that fits our schedule not because the crowds might be thinner then. We should not be segregated to off times because of the crowds.

It seems like you're bringing such a negative condotation to making choices which makes our vacation so much easier and less stressful. We get the ADRs we want, see the shows we want and go where we want to go with less probability of incident and at lower crowd times. We aren't being segregated, we're chosing to plan ahead, take advantage of opportunities provided to us and accept some additional delays in other places to halp ensure a happy trip for all.

With your logic no one on an ECV would be able to tour The Osbourne Spectacle of Dancing Lights because it is almost always crowded. Sorry we will be going to see the lights just like every other family, able bodied or not.

Well, that's not true at all because with my logic we had ADRs for the Fantasmic Dining package, saw Fantasmic then saw the spectacle of lights in the last hour it was available. My logic is certainly not implying that if you have and use a ECV that you should not watch the Osborne Spectacle of Dancing Lights. My logic simply says if you plan ahead, seeing them with lower crowds isn't that hard alot of the time.

Be responsible for your own safety and your own surroundings

No disagreements here.

 

[starjazz]

As a fully able individual, I don't expect anyone with a disability to modify their plans to lower their chances of running into me when at Disney. That doesn't sound fair. Just because you blew your leg off in 'nam or something, doen't mean you shouldn't be able to go where I go, when I go, or see what I see. (Hell, if that were actually the case, I'd happily let you go in front of me. Probably not the case if you're just a glutton on wheels, but I'm gonna figure most in an ecv are probably somewhere between those "extremes".)

I do expect that I won't get hit from behind when I'm not looking. By an ecv, wheelchair, stroller, or anything else. I kinda take that like the rear-end rule. The guy that rear ends another guy is nearly always at fault, and so seems to be the case here.

If you do accidentally hit me, all I'd ask for is a quick apology, and that it doesn't happen again (by the same perp). No biggie.

Mostly just seems like common sense here. I'm guessing an observer would be able to quickly determine who's fault any given "rumper bumper" would be.

 

[dawnball]

No, your need to use an EVC does not make you more at fault. Your choice to use one in Disney does put more burden of the responsibility on your shoulders. It's your choice to decline that responsibility, but thankfully most do not.

You seem to be trying to separate responsibility and fault. Given that fault is "responsiblity for a wrongful act", this is a losing battle. It's impossible to determine from the information available if ECV drivers or pedestrians are more "at fault" for all accidents. Or if either is more capable of preventing all accidents. If a given accident was investigated, it would be possible to determine fault/responsibility in a single case, but they aren't investigated.

If a pedestrain runs you and your ECV over aren't the chances much smaller they will cause serious ahrm to you than if you run them over?

No. Everyone who's been hurt, on either side of the wheels, has my sympathy. But, people driving an ECV are likely to have pre-existing conditions that make them more easily harmed than the general population. Being knocked off an ECV is a pretty dangerous proposition for them. Much more so than bruises, scrapes, sprains or even a tetanus shot.

I am more concerned about being the more responsible party when I am with someone in an ECV, whether we are in an accident or not.

I don't think that "responsible" is the word you want to use here, because it doesn't make linguistic sense. Maybe you really mean "cautious"?

 

[LSUfan4444]

I want to make sure I reitterate that I am not saying alternating your plans is the only option here, I am simply stating that is one way to make things easier. Our plan was to usually make breakfast ADRs in the park before the park opens to avoid the rope drop crowds. That is simply one way to do it.

I am not saying that attending a rope drop should never be done in an ECV either, but in our experiences, it inscreases the hysteria and often extended our wait time in the long run.

To leave the proper distance for an ECV made things a pain because people kept jumping in front to fill the empty space, so we were told and started following a strategy to avoid those times and it works for us on numerous trips. When we had to be in corwded areas at crowded times, we just proceeded at a snails pace and never really had any incidents.

Thats why until my daughter almost got run over I never believed all the ECV users in WDW were out of control. But, after my incident I started noticing (at and away from WDW) and the largest collection of poeple I see who irresponsibly and wrecklessly operate their ECV is at WDW. I assume it is because so many people there have little to no training and/or experience on them and do not take proper precautions when planning or when operating then they are thrown in a gumbo pot of people who are not paying attention.

 

[dawnball]

I do expect that I won't get hit from behind when I'm not looking. By an ecv, wheelchair, stroller, or anything else. I kinda take that like the rear-end rule. The guy that rear ends another guy is nearly always at fault, and so seems to be the case here.

Generally, yup. And really, with most accidents, there's no one individual decision that was so terrible. You just made a whole lot of non-ideal decisions that lowered your margins of safety.

I figure that my history of having never hit anyone with a wheelchair (or having been hit by one) is partly luck and partly caution.

 

[LSUfan4444]

You seem to be trying to separate responsibility and fault. Given that fault is "responsiblity for a wrongful act", this is a losing battle. It's impossible to determine from the information available if ECV drivers or pedestrians are more "at fault" for all accidents. Or if either is more capable of preventing all accidents. If a given accident was investigated, it would be possible to determine fault/responsibility in a single case, but they aren't investigated.

I do not mean to assign more responsibility for an accident or incident. I am assigin more responsiblity in avoidance of an incident.

Fault implies that an incident occurs. My point is, whether you use the word responsibility or caution, being the operator of the machine or vehicle that can be the most destructive in the chance of an incident puts more burden on your shoulders to pay more attention and give more of the right of way....even if you already have it.

Like the way security vehicles yield to bikes and bikes yield to pedestrians on a bike path.

The larger responsibility or burden or caution falls on the larger vehicle that can cause the more damage.


(assuming I even understood your point correctly)

 

[Kristallc]

strollers, check out the mall on trick or treat
or shopping carts on black friday
they will run you over
people are jerks
these things are not supposed to be battering rams

 

[KellyNY]

I'm a he lol but I do truly thank you. And no I don't think its trolling its the stubborn mule "im right no matter what" mentality

LOL, sorry, I assumed you were she.
Listen, do not argue with him, obviously he got some issues, not sure why so much hate and entitlement.

 

[mrsksomeday]

I don't think any special timeframe is required, but we have learned through the years making a schedule that accomdates our ECV users certainly makes us more happy not having to deal with so much fuss. The use of a GAC card often makes up for time lost "waiting" to leave a show.

Bolded by me

You keep mentioning the use of a GAC. A Guest Assistance Card is to let the CM know what accommodations are needed for the guest, such as a quiet place to wait for someone with Autism, an alternate entrance because a person can't climb stairs, etc. A GAC is not needed if the only issue you have is using a mobility device. Bill, my boyfriend doesn't need a GAC, the CM sees he is in a power wheelchair and will direct us to the correct entrance.

Bill using a power wheelchair is NOT a privilege, it is a necessity for his daily life. It is his legs, it helps him to be independent. You saying someone using a mobility device to maneuver around whether it be in a theme park or anywhere else is insulting and it disgusts me. Stop it, just stop it.

 

[dawnball]

I do not mean to assign more responsibility for an accident or incident. I am assigin more responsiblity in avoidance of an incident.

But those are exactly the same thing.

My point is, whether you use the word responsibility or caution, being the operator of the machine or vehicle that can be the most destructive in the chance of an incident puts more burden on your shoulders to pay more attention and give more of the right of way....even if you already have it.

Do you realize that the rest of the world doesn't agree with you, though? That it isn't even always in agreement with the laws of physics, let alone the laws of the US?

Like the way security vehicles yield to bikes and bikes yield to pedestrians on a bike path.

Um. No. They don't. Security vehicles aren't supposed to yield to bikes. And when they do, they're MORE LIKELY TO CAUSE AN ACCIDENT. Sorry to yell, but that's my little pet peeve as a bicyclist. I hate it when people are trying to "be nice" and put my well being at risk.

As someone who spends a lot of time on multi-use paths, it rarely comes up. We all obey standard traffic rules, stay to the right, pass on the left, etc. Who yields is subject to much more than who's a cyclist and who's a pedestrian. However, you always, -always-, ALWAYS yield to the horse. You stop dead and let that horse pass you at its own time, in its own way, because the horse is far, far more destructive than you would be on a bicycle.

 

[NMDisneyFan]

Wow! I can't believe I just read through this whole thread. I have a huge headache after reading LSUfan4444's posts. I also feel that way when I watch LSU football and try to figure out what Les Miles is doing...

Anyway...I doesn't matter whose fault it is. What matters is that the person responsible needs to acknowledge the accident and apologize.

 

[lisalonglash]

I think I can say with certainty that the vast majority of those in ECVs would much rather be walking than driving. Perhaps a little more compassion, on every side, would be more useful than what this thread seems to be devolving into...

 

[lisalonglash]

A privilege??? Seriously??

An ECV is a mobility device used to help a person move. It is essentially the "legs" of the user. A person at WDW has the "right" to navigate the parks because they bought a ticket to enter. To enter they need to use their "legs" or "wheels" to do so.

An alternative is a manual wheelchair which may not be practical. The user may be alone and not be able to push themselves or others in their party might not want to push them. Disney provides ECV's for rental to navigate their parks for these very reasons.

My boyfriend has Cerebral Palsy and uses a power wheelchair. He goes to WDW because of the accessibility. Fair and equal access is prevalent there.

There is no reason for him to have to leave a show early or move off to the side to let the crowds pass. People need to be aware of their surroundings.

We will make ADR's for the timeframe that fits our schedule not because the crowds might be thinner then. We should not be segregated to off times because of the crowds.

We do hang back after fireworks or Fantasmic, this is for HIS safety not the crowds. He has every right to go with the normal flow of the theme park on any given day and not have to yield to pedestrians all the time.

With your logic no one on an ECV would be able to tour The Osbourne Spectacle of Dancing Lights because it is almost always crowded. Sorry we will be going to see the lights just like every other family, able bodied or not.

Be responsible for your own safety and your own surroundings.

Amen!

You do realize that the cruise ship has the right of way over the smaller, more maneuverable boat, right? That the tender is -required- to give way? And that when trains hit cars (or people), the train nearly universally isn't responsible? It's considered -completely- the fault of the person who didn't clear the tracks except in very rare circumstances.

Quite so

I'm not sure why the valid and obvious points made above are not universally understood and respected - they should be, without question.

 

[katallo]

I know this is a discussion board, but as the OP I feel it really has gone astray. My post was to simply say, be careful…being impatient is not going to help anyone. My DH and I both heard the comment about “people in front of us are moving too slow” and it was said by the person who hit me. I titled the thread “wheelchair accident” so I was not accusing anyone of being malicious. The injury is painful and today I learned I have a bruised Achilles tendon. This was not a simple tap with a wheelchair. Seriously, I meant to bring attention to a situation. Things happen, but perhaps they do not always need to happen.

 

[Pyrate_Pryncess]

As a person who has 2 useable legs I have to say that My rights are no greater than anyone elses!

In March I was at MK when I was nudged (in heavy traffic) in front of an ECV. Yes, she hit me but IT WAS MY FAULT! Why would I blame the driver when I was the one who crossed in front of her? That is the type of narrowminded stupidity that has gotten this country into the trouble it is in!

I aplologized to her as she was apologizing to me. It is called "Couth"....look it up! If people showed more of it instead of thinking that the "drivers of the ECV's are automatically responsible" the world would be a better place!

NOONE should be told that they should eat at a "more convenient" time or wait for the crowds to lessen. Everyone pays the same amount to go, so why should they not get to do/see the same things as the rest of us? Because ONE person thinks that he is too privileged? Nope! Arrogant people need to wake up and realize that they aren't the only ones on the planet and maybe if they opened their eyes, their children wouldn't grow up to be bullies!

 

[PaulaSB12]

What the op was complaining about was being hit on the legs by someone on an ecv being impatient at the people in front walking too slowly. Why should anyone be expected to have eyes in he back of their head because someone doesn't want to go as slow as the crowd is going.