Wheelchair Accident at MK

[BayouMickey]

If my first selection of an ADR is not available, I become flixible with my time and look for even earlier reservations or try one of the other 5-10+ days of my trip where one of them is.

Overall, what I do is take responsibility, make my priorities and understand most of my effort will go into getting #1, but as I teach my daughter, sometimes we don't always get what we want. It isn't always about what we want.

Please stop trying insinuate that if you are online or on the phone 180+10 days out at 7 am EST that you cannot find one day for a reservation at Cinderella's Royal Table before 9 am.

No I'm insinuating that some people only allot 3 or 4 days for their vacation. Which pretty much gives them I day in each park.
In such a case, I'm sorry, my daughter will have her breakfast with the princesses at 9:45. You will just have to share the road.

 

[LSUfan4444]

Ooor said idiot could just be prepared for not jumping in front of me. Like I said I do my best not to hit anyone but they also need to do their best not to get hit.

And like I said, no you don't. You do your best not to hit anyone as long as it is convenient for you. BUT, maybe you are right. Maybe that is your best.

Maybe you're just not capable of being more responsible than the person you call an idiot who jumps in front of you.

Either you are capable and choose not to give your best, or you aren't capable and are just as bad as the idiot (your words) who jumps in front of you.

 

[tazdev3225]

OP just want to say I'm sorry that happened and hope you're feeling better.

My boyfriend used a power wheelchair. We linger after Wishes, Fantasmic, or Illuminations. Sometimes we are the last people out of Fantasmic or close to the last people out of Epcot.

His safety is more important than getting out of the park quickly, plus Epcot is very romantic with the background music playing and no people .

Totally agree with you. I love hanging back at the end of the day and taking in the sights when the park has emptied out. Not only romantic but great photo ops.

I will say this though. After walking beside a woman in an ECV while trying to leave Wishes I learned first hand that it is not an easy thing to do. The poor woman was trying so hard to not hit the people who were cutting in front of her and randomly stopping (because they "lost" their party so they just stopped ). She was so worried about that that she accidentally steered off the curb! I felt so bad for her.

I have actually been forced off of the curb by the crowds not paying attention.

As the operator of the machine that can cause the harm, you have to accept the most responsibility. Even if that means you pull aside and wait until the crowd thins out.

Really why do I have to assume the responsibility?

As the user, you accept knowldge that there are idiots present, but you have to give right of way, all the time, every time. So you have to to give extra room, you have to go slow, you might even have to leave early or stay later, but to put yourself in the middle of that much pedestrian traffic is just selfish.
And I can promise you that when you give extra room it will quickly be filled with people. I do choose to stay later when I can but that is my choice. And just as I have options so do the pedestrians who see my ECV and walk in front of me anyway.

You talk of impatience, it has nothing to do with it, I'm very patient but patience doesn't cover the impatience of others who decide to jump in front of me, or who abruptly stop in front of me,that's something patience cannot cure unless you put a 5 foot bubble around me.I could hang 10 foot in back of the people in front of me but when I do, that 10 foot is immediately filled by people cutting in front. You can't put the sole blame on us, you have a responsibility too

Yes, sometimes it means you have to leave shows early, or stay and be the last person to leave. Sometimes it means you can't leave right after Illuminations. Yes, you have to give a few feet between you and the person in front of you, and people will undoubtedly try and fill that space...and you have to continue to leave it because if you don't you are increasing the probability of an accident.

Why should I have to leave a show early because other people are rude and cut in front of me?

I am not saying ECV users accept 100% of the responsibility and are at fault in every single accident every single time, BUT if you agree that you should accept the majority of the responsibility why do you want to argue about whether you should take 60% or 80% of the responsibility?

If I am at fault I will accept 100% of the responsibility but just because I need an ECV in Disney does not automatically make me more at fault!

Isn't it just easier to expect that some people will accept none, and since you are on the machine that can cuase harm, already have planned to take longer than everyone else and are willing to go out of your way, just pull over and wait or just leave 4' between your chair and the person in front of you.
Again I can leave all the space in the world to prepare for the unexpected but that argument goes both ways. Pedestrians seeing an ECV should also give room to the "vehicle".

No, you should totally inconvenience yourself because your machine can cause serious harm.

I don't expect anything to change, but It doesn't mean I have to like it either. I have been on both sides and seen it from both angles (previous video of my daughter almost getting ran over by someone on an EVC), but god forbid you accept the proper responsibility for the power you have been privelaged with. It's much easier to just blame everything on everyone else.

My using an ECV is a privilage? Seriously. I would love the privilage of walking on my own 2 feet. Unfortunately 6 knee surgeries took that away from me. I am thankful that I have the ability to use an ECV. It beats the alternative of walking out of the park with tears streaming down my face and holding onto poles just to stand from the excruciating pain I am in.

The person who holds the most responsibility is always the most to blame. Do you just disagree that the user of an EVC should assume more responsibility?

I do disagree with that statement.

I was in Disney last month with friends and increased my need for an ECV because I tore a ligament in my ankle 2 weeks before we left. I am extremely cautious when I drive it. That being said leaving Philaharmagic I was driving as close to the wall as possible approaching the store. I actually was stopped because of the traffic and a woman ran in front of me pulling her child. The child's face hit my basket. Even though I wasn't moving I asked if her child was OK and she gave me a dirty look and kept on going. Her husband apologized to me several timnes and took off after her yelling at his wife.

By your logic I am at fault for this because I had the ECV. Sorry but this goes both ways. Pedestrians bear just as much responsibility. And I rarely respond to these threads but I felt as though I had to this time. These threads are why my DH and I argue bitterly before we go to Disney however. I would rather walk and be in pain than deal with the looks and attitudes I get in the ECV. I am now going back to lurkdom.

 

[LSUfan4444]

No I'm insinuating that some people only allot 3 or 4 days for their vacation. Which pretty much gives them I day in each park.
In such a case, I'm sorry, my daughter will have her breakfast with the princesses at 9:45. You will just have to share the road.

You poor poor victim. I feel so bad for you and all your hardships. Nothing is ever your fault and life has just dealt you a raw deal. Nobody has any idea what you are going through and we just don't understand.

You're right, I;m wrong. Your pretty, I'm ugly. Your smart, I'm dumb. You're responsible and the idiot who jumps in front of you that you just can't avoid under any circumstance, well....is an idiot.

Feel better?

 

[Sam81]

The biggest problem with ECV’s are the users. Read the disability boards, most of the people do not use an ECV in their everyday life. So Disney gives them a machine that they do not normally use, probably have no prior training and send them out to one of the most crowded places. This kind of stuff is bound to happen.

BUT as the driver of an ECV you should be extra aware and if you are not confident you can safely operate it – don’t. Disney is not a right, for anyone. And again if you need O2, an ECV, a GAC, an anxiety dog, 30 prescriptions and a nurse, maybe spinning around on Dumbo isn’t the best idea.

 

[BayouMickey]

And like I said, no you don't. You do your best not to hit anyone as long as it is convenient for you. BUT, maybe you are right. Maybe that is your best.

Maybe you're just not capable of being more responsible than the person you call an idiot who jumps in front of you.

Either you are capable and choose not to give your best, or you aren't capable and are just as bad as the idiot (your words) who jumps in front of you.

How the hell do you know what I do and don't do? Just because I don't spend my whole day waiting? you say you've been to wdw on an ECV, I'm doubting you did, because if you have you'd know better. It all boils down to this you don't know jack squat, You have a holier then thou attitude, and your whole premise is left wanting. I entertained you this long hoping you could see it from another point of view but like the horse hitched, you have blinders.

 

[BayouMickey]

You poor poor victim. I feel so bad for you and all your hardships. Nothing is ever your fault and life has just dealt you a raw deal. Nobody has any idea what you are going through and we just don't understand.

You're right, I;m wrong. Your pretty, I'm ugly. Your smart, I'm dumb. You're responsible and the idiot who jumps in front of you that you just can't avoid under any circumstance, well....is an idiot.

Feel better?

I never said I was a victim, I'm just telling you how its going to be. I'm not going to wait because lsu444 says I should. So being condonsenting is not going to work either. As for you being ugly, I don't know about the outside, but the inside. could use a plastic surgeon.

 

[KellyNY]

And like I said, no you don't. You do your best not to hit anyone as long as it is convenient for you. BUT, maybe you are right. Maybe that is your best.

Maybe you're just not capable of being more responsible than the person you call an idiot who jumps in front of you.

Either you are capable and choose not to give your best, or you aren't capable and are just as bad as the idiot (your words) who jumps in front of you.

You are kidding, right? You suggesting that she just not suppose to be there at all and this is the only way she can show herself as being responsible? I am sorry, is this even for real or is it trolling?

 

[BayouMickey]

You are kidding, right? You suggesting that she just not suppose to be there at all and this is the only way she can show herself as being responsible? I am sorry, is this even for real or is it trolling?

I'm a he lol but I do truly thank you. And no I don't think its trolling its the stubborn mule "im right no matter what" mentality

 

[LSUfan4444]

As the operator of the machine that can cause the harm, you have to accept the most responsibility. Even if that means you pull aside and wait until the crowd thins out.

Really why do I have to assume the responsibility?

You should always assume responsibility, ECV or not. OPerating the machine that can cuase the most damage means you should assume more.

As the user, you accept knowldge that there are idiots present, but you have to give right of way, all the time, every time. So you have to to give extra room, you have to go slow, you might even have to leave early or stay later, but to put yourself in the middle of that much pedestrian traffic is just selfish.
And I can promise you that when you give extra room it will quickly be filled with people. I do choose to stay later when I can but that is my choice. And just as I have options so do the pedestrians who see my ECV and walk in front of me anyway.

As previously stated, I have seen this happen as well. I have seen it happen numerous times without an accident or further incident. It doesn't mean extra room shouldn't ne left just because it is an inconvenience.

Yes, sometimes it means you have to leave shows early, or stay and be the last person to leave. Sometimes it means you can't leave right after Illuminations. Yes, you have to give a few feet between you and the person in front of you, and people will undoubtedly try and fill that space...and you have to continue to leave it because if you don't you are increasing the probability of an accident.

Why should I have to leave a show early because other people are rude and cut in front of me?

You don't have to leave early. You can chose to wait for the crowd to disperse some and as we have both mentioned, take the less traveled scenic route when available.

I am not saying ECV users accept 100% of the responsibility and are at fault in every single accident every single time, BUT if you agree that you should accept the majority of the responsibility why do you want to argue about whether you should take 60% or 80% of the responsibility?

If I am at fault I will accept 100% of the responsibility but just because I need an ECV in Disney does not automatically make me more at fault!

No, your need to use an EVC does not make you more at fault. Your choice to use one in Disney does put more burden of the responsibility on your shoulders. It's your choice to decline that responsibility, but thankfully most do not.

Isn't it just easier to expect that some people will accept none, and since you are on the machine that can cuase harm, already have planned to take longer than everyone else and are willing to go out of your way, just pull over and wait or just leave 4' between your chair and the person in front of you.

Again I can leave all the space in the world to prepare for the unexpected but that argument goes both ways. Pedestrians seeing an ECV should also give room to the "vehicle".

If a pedestrain runs you and your ECV over aren't the chances much smaller they will cause serious ahrm to you than if you run them over? I am not saying you would, but the fact that you are operating a maching that is the most dangerous in this situation means you should assume more of the responsibility. Just like on the interstates and waterways.

No, you should totally inconvenience yourself because your machine can cause serious harm.

I don't expect anything to change, but It doesn't mean I have to like it either. I have been on both sides and seen it from both angles (previous video of my daughter almost getting ran over by someone on an ECV), but god forbid you accept the proper responsibility for the power you have been privelaged with. It's much easier to just blame everything on everyone else.

My using an ECV is a privilage? Seriously. I would love the privilage of walking on my own 2 feet. Unfortunately 6 knee surgeries took that away from me. I am thankful that I have the ability to use an ECV. It beats the alternative of walking out of the park with tears streaming down my face and holding onto poles just to stand from the excruciating pain I am in.

Yes, using an ECV is a privelage. The use of an ECV in WDW is not a right, it is a preivelage (remember what it was like before ECVS were used). I am not saying you are privelaged to have to use an EVC. PLease, dont try and put those words in my mouth, but the use of an EVC is a privelage over other alternatives.

I do disagree with that statement.

I was in Disney last month with friends and increased my need for an ECV because I tore a ligament in my ankle 2 weeks before we left. I am extremely cautious when I drive it. That being said leaving Philaharmagic I was driving as close to the wall as possible approaching the store. I actually was stopped because of the traffic and a woman ran in front of me pulling her child. The child's face hit my basket. Even though I wasn't moving I asked if her child was OK and she gave me a dirty look and kept on going. Her husband apologized to me several timnes and took off after her yelling at his wife.

By your logic I am at fault for this because I had the ECV. Sorry but this goes both ways. Pedestrians bear just as much responsibility. And I rarely respond to these threads but I felt as though I had to this time. These threads are why my DH and I argue bitterly before we go to Disney however. I would rather walk and be in pain than deal with the looks and attitudes I get in the ECV. I am now going back to lurkdom.

You obviously have not read all my posts, which is understandable because this is a long thread. If you have read them all, maybe you missed the point where I said there are some occurances where nothing can be done. But, I am not concerned with blaming someone after an accident. I am more concerned about being the more responsible party when I am with someone in an ECV, whether we are in an accident or not.

 

[LSUfan4444]

How the hell do you know what I do and don't do?

All I know is what you have said here and you have given a few examples and stated you don't do ____ if it means it is an inconvenience to you. You do not arrive early, you will not leave later, you do not request ADR's before a park open and if you do and none are available on the day you want to go you do not try and change your touring plan.

So, you can sit there and say you do everything you can, but you don't and have admitted here more than once.

And no I don't think its trolling its the stubborn mule "im right no matter what" mentality

Hello pot, meet kettle.

You think I'm arguing an opinion here which can be disagreed with.

There are NUMEROUS ways to avoid the vast majority accidents. I've done it. It starts with your plan.

This isn't an opinion, it is fact and it is practiced almost every day by hundreds to thousands of guests at WDW. Our touring strategy came from someone who gave us tons of tips on how to have a stress free WDW vacation with use of a DCV and it is possible, whether you want to admit and accknoeldge it or not.

 

[BayouMickey]

All I know is what you have said here and you have given a few examples and stated you don't do ____ if it means it is an inconvenience to you. You do not arrive early, you will not leave later, you do not request ADR's before a park open and if you do and none are available on the day you want to go you do not try and change your touring plan.

So, you can sit there and say you do everything you can, but you don't and have admitted here more than once.

Hello pot, meet kettle.

You think I'm arguing an opinion here which can be disagreed with.

There are NUMEROUS ways to avoid the vast majority accidents. I've done it. It starts with your plan.

This isn't an opinion, it is fact and it is practiced almost every day by hundreds to thousands of guests at WDW. Our touring strategy came from someone who gave us tons of tips on how to have a stress free WDW vacation with use of a DCV and it is possible, whether you want to admit and accknoeldge it or not.

Sorry I've been saying that there should be a compromise, that liability should be on both walkers and ECV'ers. You are solely saying the responsibility is on the evc'er. So as for the pot and kettle you wear that hat alone.

I'm not gonna address the other juvenile statement because its just going in circles and hey you like to attack people I get it, so have a victory dance on me.

 

[LSUfan4444]

Sorry I've been saying that there should be a compromise, that liability should be on both walkers and ECV'ers. You are solely saying the responsibility is on the evc'er. So as for the pot and kettle you wear that hat alone.

In no way have I ever said or insinuated such a thing. I have said MORE of the responsibility falls on the operator of the ECV, not all.

Rarely is an accident 100% one person's fault, thus my sentiment that defenseve tacticts can prevent accidents more times than not.

We do agree there should be a compromise and both parties should act defensively. That both parties accept responsibility. Where we differ is whether or not the operator of the more dangerous machine should assume more responsibility.

Next time you are on a disney bus just ask the disney bus driver if he assumes more responsibility than the driver of the car next to him. Ever go on a cruise? Ask the captain if he assumes more responsiblity that the pilot of the tender boat that brings guests to shore. Ever been on a train? Ask an enginner who bares the most responsibility in making sure the track is clear at every interesction they encounter.

Accidents may not always be their fault, but it is their responsiblity. They understand it and they operate in a defensive manner almost all of the time because of it.

 

[LSUfan4444]

I'm not gonna address the other juvenile statement because its just going in circles and hey you like to attack people I get it, so have a victory dance on me.

Sound familiar pot?

And to that end walkers should also stop cutting off ECV's. Yes I've run into my share of people, but most of them are idiots who decide oh let's jump in front of a moving machine. Folks evc's don't have brakes. So if you stop in front or jump in front one, you will get clipped.

There is no victory here because there was no battle. I knew before this started you would not change your stance. A victory for me would be that you assume more responsibility than the idiot who jumps in front of you, but you refuse. A victory for me would be that you respect that idiot that disresepcted you by giving extra care and accepting more responsibility than him, but you decline.

Nobody wins here. I will continue to go out of my way when we visit with an ECV, I will continue to respect those people who do not pay attention even if they don't respect me because although it may seem like I am going out of my way, I really benefit more in the long run. You will continue to give as much as you get.

 

[BayouMickey]

You are talking apples an oranges, I'm on an ECV, not a cruiseship. And you know what I do drive defensively, but just because I'm not sitting around all day waiting, does not mean I'm being an offensive driver. I take measures to avoid collisions, but they happen. You so happened to be with someone that was on an evc once or twice so you think you have it figured out, I get it, but you are wrong, I'm sorry to say this but you are. Once or twice WITH someone doesn't alloquate to knowing what I've been doing for years and not just at wdw. I'm not saying this as a victim, I'm saying this from experience.

 

[BayouMickey]

Sound familiar pot?

Never once did I initialize an attack.. did I rebute? Yes.. so again you wear that hat alone.

 

[LSUfan4444]

Never once did I initialize an attack.. did I rebute? Yes.. so again you wear that hat alone.

Calling someone an idiot is not attacking them?

I've been to WDW with and ECV user more than once or twice, but it is irrelevant. You don't want to believe it can be done because it makes you feel better. If you acknowledge that more can be done than you lose the stance that "you do everything you can do", even though someone with experience in how to reduce incidents is giving you tips on how to do so. You're response is, that doesn't work. You're wrong.

Even though you're the one who hasn't done it, and I have.

You'll still sit there and try and say I am wrong about something I have done, on numerous occasion, that I know other people do, on numerous occasions.

If you have conviced yourself what I am saying does not work, fine. But I draw the line when you try and start convincing me I am wrong about a touring practice that has worked in on multiple occasions.

You do not want any more responsibility than the idiot who jumps in front of your ECV, I get it. That is the center point of the entire debate and that's all that matters. You don't think you shold have more responsibility than that idiot, you don't want more responsibility than that idiot and you don't want to be blamed if you get in an accident with that idiot.

 

[pampam]

Patience has everything to do with it and you have to have more than the everyone else.....why, because you are controlling the machine that can cause serious harm.


I have visited WDW many times with ECV users and sometimes we had to do things that weren't the most convenient. Don't try and tell me it can't be done.

Yes, sometimes it means you have to leave shows early, or stay and be the last person to leave. Sometimes it means you can't leave right after Illuminations. Yes, you have to give a few feet between you and the person in front of you, and people will undoubtedly try and fill that space...and you have to continue to leave it because if you don't you are increasing the probability of an accident.

I am not saying EVC users accept 100% of the responsibility and are at fault in every single accident every single time, BUT if you agree that you should accept the majority of the responsibility why do you want to argue about whether you should take 60% or 80% of the responsibility?

Isn't it just easier to expect that some people will accept none, and since you are on the machine that can cuase harm, already have planned to take longer than everyone else and are willing to go out of your way, just pull over and wait or just leave 4' between your chair and the person in front of you.

Using that logic, tractor trailers should not be on the highways during rush hour. Now, you know that isn't going to happen. Trucks will be on the roads whenever they need to be, just as WCs and ECVs will be where they need to be at that time. And just as trucks can use care, while merging etc so can WCs and ECVs. Just as cars and motorcycles use care, so should all people exiting from the parks whether in a WC, ecv stroller or just walking. While driving, we need to be aware of our surroundings. We wouldn't cut across the lanes in front of a truck because we know what the consequences would be. And if a car or bicycle caused an accident, they would be held responsible. Size wouldn't matter. Charges would be laid. The same with pedestrians. Or people pushing something. We all need to be aware of our surroundings. Now, I'm not talking about 4 years olds, but everyone should be aware that their actions may have consequences.

 

[BayouMickey]

Who did I actually call an idiot? Did I direct that to a specific someone? No it was figuratively. It can't be an attack if it wasn't directed towards someone specifically. And just like you accuse me of, you are saying things I did not say, I take responsibility of my own actions, I hold myself responsible to my actions. I just don't hold myself accountable for other peoples actions

 

[mrsksomeday]

Yes, using an ECV is a privelage. The use of an ECV in WDW is not a right, it is a preivelage (remember what it was like before ECVS were used). I am not saying you are privelaged to have to use an ECV. PLease, dont try and put those words in my mouth, but the use of an EVC is a privelage over other alternatives.

A privilege??? Seriously??

An ECV is a mobility device used to help a person move. It is essentially the "legs" of the user. A person at WDW has the "right" to navigate the parks because they bought a ticket to enter. To enter they need to use their "legs" or "wheels" to do so.

An alternative is a manual wheelchair which may not be practical. The user may be alone and not be able to push themselves or others in their party might not want to push them. Disney provides ECV's for rental to navigate their parks for these very reasons.

My boyfriend has Cerebral Palsy and uses a power wheelchair. He goes to WDW because of the accessibility. Fair and equal access is prevalent there.

There is no reason for him to have to leave a show early or move off to the side to let the crowds pass. People need to be aware of their surroundings.

We will make ADR's for the timeframe that fits our schedule not because the crowds might be thinner then. We should not be segregated to off times because of the crowds.

We do hang back after fireworks or Fantasmic, this is for HIS safety not the crowds. He has every right to go with the normal flow of the theme park on any given day and not have to yield to pedestrians all the time.

With your logic no one on an ECV would be able to tour The Osbourne Spectacle of Dancing Lights because it is almost always crowded. Sorry we will be going to see the lights just like every other family, able bodied or not.

Be responsible for your own safety and your own surroundings.