What's 'wrong' with Catholicism (dare we try to discuss without debate?)

Wishing on a star said:
Good observation, and a very good question.

It seems like when somebody disagrees it is just automatically 'bashing'.

I have seen very very little real bashing. Nobody here is hurling insults or attacks.

But, hey, others can not disagree without being attacked and accused of bashing. :confused3
We'll agree to disagree ont his one, because I guess one man's "disagreement" is another man's bashing.

Take the word catholic ou of some of these posts, insert Jewish, gay, African-American or Muslim, and then see if you wouldn't possibly consider it "bashing".

It's all a matter of perspective.
 
AnaheimGirl said:
I completely agree, but does this happen with Catholicism more so than other religions? Aren't many Muslim countries even stricter about all inhabitants following Muslim law? Even in the U.S., some churches wield political power, although likely not to the same extent, I don't know, I'm not that up on the subject.

This is a good point, of course. The Religious Right in this country is certainly moving into the role of moral arbiter, trying to force us to live by their narrow view of life.

I don't single out any religion....I don't want ANY of them to have say over my legal rights. We've seen how well that works out in the rest of the world. Taliban, anyone?
 
Disney Doll said:
Reread the thread. You'll know why I feel like Catholics are bashed. If some of the things that are written about Catholics were written about any other religious or ethnic group, the outcry would be huge. But the Catholics...ahhh...it's OK to bash them. They have all those pedophile priests after all.

Too bad about your friend's father and his encounter with yet another less than savory representative of the Catholic Church. maybe we ought to get rid of all the leaders and start again. But humans are so easily corrupted....sigh....

:umbrella: I'll give you that other religious groups wouldn't tolerate the bashing. Maybe I never got offended because my family always poked fun at each other's religions, nationalities, etc. - sounds strange to some people, but it was all in good fun at my house...back when my parents got along - oh my!
 
castleview said:
:umbrella: I'll give you that other religious groups wouldn't tolerate the bashing. Maybe I never got offended because my family always poked fun at each other's religions, nationalities, etc. - sounds strange to some people, but it was all in good fun at my house...back when my parents got along - oh my!
I've lived all over the country and I've heard some horrible things said about Catholics.. I heard them called everything from Satan's Children to the ***** of Babylon. Of course there is the old standby"they are not Christians".. I live in RI, a predominantly Catholic state and don't hear much of that around here.
Before i decided to become Jewish I spent time in a lot of other denominations.. I heard horrible things about Catholicism from some of the members and in one case from the organization itself.
 

CheshireVal said:
Well, it wasn't something I particularly *wanted* to do. We had just started our wedding planning, though, and DHs family is Catholic, so it was a passing thought of, "oh, this might be kind of nice." (I think DHs mom might have mentioned it, too). I do think most Catholic churches are beautiful and classic-- I wouldn't have really minded it for a wedding, but I wasn't going to commit to raising my children Catholic or converting myself....

Again, I really have respect for the Catholic church and its traditions/history. I just don't think it's for me. :)

With all due respect, the wedding pavillion at WDW would have been a good alternate choice. Beautiful and classic.

For my own part, I do not fully understand this discussion. Let me follow it a bit further...
 
castleview said:
I wasn't referring to your post. Also if you read all the way back, I was raised by an Irish Catholic dad and split my religious time between that and my Scottish mother's Episcopalian church.

I'm sorry, I wasn't reposnding in anyway to what you wrote!

I was reading about Catholic feeling bashed and I'm ignorant to this occurance - was adding my 2 cents!
 
golfgal said:
Not that I am condoning what happened but there are PEDOPHILES in ALL denominations and across all walks of life. This happens in the Lutheran, Mormon, Jewish, Strip-Mall, EVERY faith. They just haven't gotten caught so the press hasn't been able to jump all over them. This in not exclusive to the Catholic church.

Truly. Many of these little charismatic Christian sects have dynamic and, well, charismatic leaders who think nothing of preying upon their younger congregants. To say nothing of other denominations. I think people in groups like this could leave without recrimination, while Catholics were more institutionalized, and taught to defend their ground, even if blindly. Just a thought, I will have to expand on this.
 
tone.def said:
I'm sorry, I wasn't reposnding in anyway to what you wrote!

I was reading about Catholic feeling bashed and I'm ignorant to this occurance - was adding my 2 cents!

Gotcha! Sorry, I'm probably not thinking straight either given this late hour. After reading Jenny's posts, I can call myself ignorant to the Catholic bashing too. I never heard of the Satan's children thing...and I've been called many things. :teeth:
 
JennyMominRI said:
The belief in confession to a preist does not come from Tradition

From the Catholic Encyclopdia

as the Council of Trent declares, Christ principally instituted the Sacrament of Penance after His Resurrection, a miracle greater than that of healing the sick. "As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained' (John 20:21-23). While the sense of these words is quite obvious, the following points are to be considered:
Christ here reiterates in the plainest terms -- "sins", "forgive", "retain" -- what He had previously stated in figurative language, "bind" and "loose", so that this text specifies and distinctly applies to sin the power of loosing and binding.
He prefaces this grant of power by declaring that the mission of the Apostles is similar to that which He had received from the Father and which He had fulfilled: "As the Father hath sent me". Now it is beyond doubt that He came into the world to destroy sin and that on various occasions He explicitly forgave sin (Matthew 9:2-8; Luke 5:20; 7:47; Revelation 1:5), hence the forgiving of sin is to be included in the mission of the Apostles.
Christ not only declared that sins were forgiven, but really and actually forgave them; hence, the Apostles are empowered not merely to announce to the sinner that his sins are forgiven but to grant him forgiveness-"whose sins you shall forgive". If their power were limited to the declaration "God pardons you", they would need a special revelation in each case to make the declaration valid.
The power is twofold -- to forgive or to retain, i.e., the Apostles are not told to grant or withhold forgiveness nondiscriminately; they must act judicially, forgiving or retaining according as the sinner deserves.
The exercise of this power in either form (forgiving or retaining) is not restricted: no distinction is made or even suggested between one kind of sin and another, or between one class of sinners and all the rest: Christ simply says "whose sins".
The sentence pronounced by the Apostles (remission or retention) is also God's sentence -- "they are forgiven . . . they are retained".
It is therefore clear from the words of Christ that the Apostles had power to forgive sins. But this was not a personal prerogative that was to erase at their death; it was granted to them in their official capacity and hence as a permanent institution in the Church -- no less permanent than the mission to teach and baptize all nations. Christ foresaw that even those who received faith and baptism, whether during the lifetime of the Apostles or later, would fall into sin and therefore would need forgiveness in order to be saved. He must, then, have intended that the power to forgive should be transmitted from the Apostles to their successors and be used as long as there would be sinners in the Church, and that means to the end of time. It is true that in baptism also sins are forgiven, but this does not warrant the view that the power to forgive is simply the power to baptize. In the first place, as appears from the texts cited above, the power to forgive is also the power to retain; its exercise involves a judicial action. But no such action is implied in the commission to baptize (Matthew 28:18-20); in fact, as the Council of Trent affirms, the Church does not pass judgment on those who are not yet members of the Church, and membership is obtained through baptism. Furthermore, baptism, because it is a new birth, cannot be repeated, whereas the power to forgive sins (penance) is to be used as often as the sinner may need it. Hence the condemnation, by the same Council, of any one "who, confounding the sacraments, should say that baptism itself is the Sacrament of Penance, as though these two sacraments were not distinct and as though penance were not rightly called the second plank after shipwreck" (Sess. XIV, can. 2 de sac. poen.).


Duh! The Catholic Encyclopedia is not Scripture. It is TRADITION.
 
Jamesbyr said:
Sorry! Should have read "The Catholic Encyclopedia is not..."
Did you read what I posted..It had in it scriptoral references for the beliefs of confession.. The idea of confession is based in scripture.
 
After I edit a correction, the original posts make no sense, since they include the correction. I hope this makes some sense in the long run.

My best friends came to the same conclusions about our religion in college, but when they married and moved to exurbia, they bonded with their local (catholic) church. For community reasons. You need to establish ties in a new town. Your common backgrounds are your best bet. Meeting an intelligent parish priest was a plus for them. None of this nonsense that we have seen on so (depressingly) many of the previous posts. Regarding, I guess, what you can or cannot do in a marriage "mixed" into a mixed-up Catholic status.
 
Disney Doll said:
Reread the thread. I'd also encourage you to look at the tile of the thread...I believ eit is "What's Wrong With Catholicism". You'll know why I feel like Catholics are bashed. If some of the things that are written about Catholics were written about any other religious or ethnic group, the outcry would be huge. But the Catholics...ahhh...it's OK to bash them. They have all those pedophile priests after all.
...

If I wanted to understand why Catholicism is bashed around here, what should have been the title? My OP was intended to convey that it's not my view but I've seen it come up here. I was trying to understand why. I think I've gotten some perspective on it and there's been a lot of interesting repectful dialogue. Yeah it's gotten a bit heated here and there but it's way more respectful than I expected it to be after 200 posts.
 
Wishing on a star said:
Good observation, and a very good question.

It seems like when somebody disagrees it is just automatically 'bashing'.

I have seen very very little real bashing. Nobody here is hurling insults or attacks.

But, hey, others can not disagree without being attacked and accused of bashing. :confused3

I don't think I've seen too much specific Catholic bashing on these boards, Mostly it's "everyone else who isn't like us"-bashing from people like hokiefan33. I admit that he doesn't think he's bashing people, but he really is.

Anyhow...

Growing up in Central Virginia as a Catholic I knew a ton of Protestants, mostly Southern Baptists, who had absolutely no problem calling me a Papist, telling me everytime we had a religious/philosophical argument that it didn't matter what I said because I was going to burn in hell anyway, and other wonderful things. In my experience many of the problems between Catholics and Protestants stem from ignorance and misunderstandings on both groups' parts. If I had a nickel for every time I had to explain that we don't worship Mary, I'd be a rich man. If I had a nickel for every time I had to explain transsubstantiation or the scriptual support of confession I could spend the rest of my life sitting on a beach.
 
Jamesbyr said:
Duh! The Catholic Encyclopedia is not Scripture. It is TRADITION.


The entry is from the Catholic Encyclopedia, but it does list all of the scriptural references for why the Council of Trent defended the sacrament of Penance (confession) as scripturally based.
 
I was baptised Catholic, and my wife and I were married in the Catholic church. We have in the last four years switched to the Methodist church. I don't want to bash the Catholic church but perhaps I can answer the OP's question by telling you why my family made it's decision to switch. The major reason belive it or not was the type and quality of the youth ministry at the Methodist church vs the Catholic church. At our old church the youth went to CCE and that was about it. At our new church the youth are involved in every aspect. The have a youth choir, a handbell group, a very active Sunday school program and are all about offering a wide variety of service opportunities to the youth. Additionally my wife and I have become very active in Adult bible studies and in our Sunday school class. We really enjoy the discussion and thoughtful study of scriptures. In the Catholic church we did not have nearly the opportunity for such activities. Another factor was (sad to say) the dearth of rules you faced in the Catholic faith. We had to get letters from the priest of our childrens Godparents because we had to prove they were Catholic. There were manditory classes for everything you wanted to do at the church. Our Catholic church made it difficult as possible to be Catholics. I really feel that one of the primary reasons many have decided to leave the Catholic faith is the fact that for centuries it was the church, the one and only church. During the Dark Ages the majority of people could not read and write so the "Church" services developed into scripture reading and the priest giving the homily to explain to the masses what it meant. Sadly this practice continues and as parishoners we were treated as someone who just could not understand the bible because we had not devoted our entire life to doing so. In our church bible study was not promoted or encouraged. In the Methodist faith we are encouraged to seek the truth through thoughtful study and reading and understanding the bible. The Catholic church however has tended to stay with the old ways and try to perserve it's history. In short they have not been as progressive as the more modern Christian Churchs. I believe Catholics are Christians, they are the original Christians. I do not bash Catholics, but rather after a lot of thought and the understanding that it was not really my place to try and change the church, my wife and I decided to seek a faith that more closley alligned with our beliefs and thoughts. I truly believe that much of the turmoil in the Catholic faith today is caused by Catholics within the religion trying to change the church from within. Rather than following that movement my family just decided to move on.
 
Disney Doll said:
Your chiuldren do go and get a blessing. They don't receive Communion because it is not their faith.


Interesting choice of words. Actually, it IS their faith.

It is not their denomination.
 
brerrabbit said:
I was baptised Catholic, and my wife and I were married in the Catholic church. We have in the last four years switched to the Methodist church. I don't want to bash the Catholic church but perhaps I can answer the OP's question by telling you why my family made it's decision to switch. The major reason belive it or not was the type and quality of the youth ministry at the Methodist church vs the Catholic church. At our old church the youth went to CCE and that was about it. At our new church the youth are involved in every aspect. The have a youth choir, a handbell group, a very active Sunday school program and are all about offering a wide variety of service opportunities to the youth. Additionally my wife and I have become very active in Adult bible studies and in our Sunday school class. We really enjoy the discussion and thoughtful study of scriptures. In the Catholic church we did not have nearly the opportunity for such activities. Another factor was (sad to say) the dearth of rules you faced in the Catholic faith. We had to get letters from the priest of our childrens Godparents because we had to prove they were Catholic. There were manditory classes for everything you wanted to do at the church. Our Catholic church made it difficult as possible to be Catholics. I really feel that one of the primary reasons many have decided to leave the Catholic faith is the fact that for centuries it was the church, the one and only church. During the Dark Ages the majority of people could not read and write so the "Church" services developed into scripture reading and the priest giving the homily to explain to the masses what it meant. Sadly this practice continues and as parishoners we were treated as someone who just could not understand the bible because we had not devoted our entire life to doing so. In our church bible study was not promoted or encouraged. In the Methodist faith we are encouraged to seek the truth through thoughtful study and reading and understanding the bible. The Catholic church however has tended to stay with the old ways and try to perserve it's history. In short they have not been as progressive as the more modern Christian Churchs. I believe Catholics are Christians, they are the original Christians. I do not bash Catholics, but rather after a lot of thought and the understanding that it was not really my place to try and change the church, my wife and I decided to seek a faith that more closley alligned with our beliefs and thoughts. I truly believe that much of the turmoil in the Catholic faith today is caused by Catholics within the religion trying to change the church from within. Rather than following that movement my family just decided to move on.

Not all Catholic churches are like this. We have a very active youth group, we have Mission nights where all ages do what ever it is for the month, rake leaves for the elderly, collect gifts for Toys for Tots, visit nursing homes, etc. We have a youth handbell choir and an adult handbell choir. We did not have to prove any of our children's Godparents are Catholic, although they are (well, were, Dh's sister is now Jewish). We also have several Bible Study groups, prayer groups, etc. We have a fairly large church with a reasonable staff so that does help some. It is hard when people lump all Catholic churches together because of a bad experience at one or two churches. The people make the church and you are going to find good and bad parishes in all denominations.
 
Deb in IA said:
Interesting choice of words. Actually, it IS their faith.

It is not their denomination.

Is their faith that of the Transubstantiation, the actual presence of the body and blood of Christ? If not, then it isn't their faith.
 

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