What's with the Menu Changes?

Keep those comments coming! In most instances here on the DIS, being right or wrong is too subjective of a call to make definitively anyway. I agree with your basic premise though. It seems to me that restaurants are one type of business that just doesn't operate as effectively at 100% occupancy. (unless you're running a chow hall or some other cafeteria style self-serve establishment.)

Servers are more harried tending to too many tables at once, food preparation suffers from too many things happening at once, and wait times become uncomfortably long, both for tables and for service. It seems the WDW restaurants would operate more efficiently, and more profitably at 75% full if patrons paid the true cost of the meal. Which at some point will happen anyway, because Disney isn't going to subsidize meals forever.

From the perspective of the dining patron, less crowded is certainly better though from the restaurant's point of view, 100% full with everyone paying menu prices would be ideal. It just seems to be the worst of both worlds when you have WDW restaurants 100% full with too many discounted meals ringing up at the cash register.


Poorly managed restaurants don't run effectively at 100% capacity. I have been in the industry for 15 years and have never heard of a management strategy that sets a goal of 75% capacity......If I have seating for 50 but I will only seat 35-36 people at a time; that makes no sense. Now with that said, I agree if you are running at 100% capacity you must staff accordingly so the customer's experience will not be compromised. With the volume of guests visiting WDW they cannot afford to have 25% of their seating empty. What kind of reaction would Disney get from the person waiting for a seat if they refused to place them at an open table. I would hate to be the host/hostess/manager working that nightmare.

As far as the "true cost" of the meal.......too off topic so I will not go into my dissertation on the economics of a restaurant menu and the bottom line it creates. ;)


:thumbsup2
 
Poorly managed restaurants don't run effectively at 100% capacity. I have been in the industry for 15 years and have never heard of a management strategy that sets a goal of 75% capacity......If I have seating for 50 but I will only seat 35-36 people at a time; that makes no sense. Now with that said, I agree if you are running at 100% capacity you must staff accordingly so the customer's experience will not be compromised. With the volume of guests visiting WDW they cannot afford to have 25% of their seating empty. What kind of reaction would Disney get from the person waiting for a seat if they refused to place them at an open table. I would hate to be the host/hostess/manager working that nightmare.

As far as the "true cost" of the meal.......too off topic so I will not go into my dissertation on the economics of a restaurant menu and the bottom line it creates. ;)


:thumbsup2

I did say that from a restaurant's perspective, 100% capacity is ideal. From a guest's point of view, it is not. My point regarding 75% capacity was Disney specific and was only meant to convey the point that Disney restaurants could make more money at 75% capacity, and provide a better dining experience if they weren't saddled with having to offer menu items at a heavy discount to many of their patrons. They have to run at 100% and "get 'em in, get 'em out - (rawhide!)" in order to make up in turnover what they lose in pricing.

That's all I'm saying.
 
Nothing like making up, and distorting, facts to support your position.

The concern is with the effect the Disney Dining Plan has on non DDP guests.

Moving an expensive appetizer to the entree menu has no effect on cash customers. I find it hard to believe a waiter will refuse to serve that item as an appetizer. That's a good compromise position.

I haven't read any reports of any Disney run restaurant dropping steak or lobster from their menu. :confused3 A few posters said lobster was being dropped at Narcosess but the restaurant denied it. It's certainly plausible WPC dropped steak due to an increasing numbers of DDP guests BUT cash guests have the option of dining upstairs where the steak is still on the menu. WPC formerly charged a surcharge for the more expensive entrees.

A few posters blame every menu change on the DDP.

YIKES!!!! I'm being called a liar on the DIS! Hey mods how do we feel about this kind of behavior???:confused3

Just because you can't follow what I'm saying doesn't make it wrong. You can state your position to high heaven and it's still just your opinion. You have offered no proof with your opinions and while it's true I can't name my Chef sources for their sake (and our friendship) I do stand by what I say based on their position. You don't have to believe me or even read my posts but you shouldn't cast dispersions upon my character.:sad2:
pirate:
 
The DDP is a loss leader, no doubt about it and the resons they did it were all financially based, no doubt about it and a great many people find this offer a great value, magical and suiting to their tastes, no doubt about it. But because of their success with this program Disney has had to make changes to their operation to better facilitate (read maximize profit potential) said program which has meant (1) standardizing food vendors across the baord (2) guiding the menu to a more generic feel that DDP'ers are comfortable with (3) Offering less costly dishes over more costly dishes when possible and (4) making specific changes during 'free dining' so as to, again, maximize profit.
pirate:

Loss leader, no way.

DDP is a very successful money maker. Next year even better. Any idea what their cost is for food. About 20% has been reported.

With the DDP every restaurant is busy, very busy. Any idea on how many people don't understand the DDP and therefore waist their credits, more than you would think. Why use credits? Because people don't think of them as money and unused credits are 100% profit. There are a ton of unused credits.

Under used credits still makes them a lot of money. A TS credit for a hamburger, please.

Next year is even better, buy the deluxe plan because it's a even better deal and leave even more credits on the table.

One poster on the boards had 30 unused snack credits so she bought soda and water to take home. Her airline baggage overweight fee was $50, ouch.

If this wasn't a great profit stream, Disney would discontinue the program tomorrow.
 

Sorry to butt in, just wanted to know if WGP really cut out the crab cakes on the DDP? I'm a foodie and was looking forward to these.
 
Here we go again. :woohoo:

Very few, really? How can you summize this anymore than my saying "most all"? The free dining in particular causes menu changes, based on when they happen and the type of change they are, that leaves the only one reasonable assumption as to why it was done. IMO, it would be unreasonable or naive to think otherwise. We know it's about the money at this point so the removal of a steak or lobster item or relocation of expensive appitizers is obviously being caused by one thing.:confused3
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You are exactly right.

This is not for or against the DDP or WDW:

I think people need to look at this from a cost accounting perspective. Unfortunately it is not always about making people perfectly happy 100% of the time, it is more about making money while keeping people pleased overall. Regardless of what everyone believes Disney is in it to make money, that is their number one goal. Is Disney evil because of this, no they are just in business. Do they make us happy for the most part, yes. So, we turn around and make them rich for that bit of happiness.

The resturants removing these expensive items are counting on patrons to dine no matter what is on the menu and more importantly they are counting on most patrons not having any idea the menu has been changed from one month to the next or from year to year and hope the revisiting patrons stay pleased. Millions of people visit Disney and they all have to eat at one point in a day and the majority eat in Disney. Not everyone visits as often as some Disers do and not many are as educated about Disney.

Disney is huge. You have to look at it that Disney is one company that owns a bunch of little businesses. Each resturant in Disney (Disney owned) and each resort (Disney owned), and each store within the park have their own financial reports with their own operation goals. This is required so that Disney upper management knows if that business will sink or swim. That is why some resturants, shops, etc close and are replaced with others. Operation decisions are made everyday to make a profit as each have to meet their goals in order to do so. This includes the cost of food supplies, payroll costs, etc. The dining plan (paid or free) may affect some resturant's bottom line more than it affects others depending on these costs. That is why some changes are made in some and not in others. And of course non Disney owned resturants are concerned with the same things.

It is not just as simple as serving the food the chef wants to serve or making every single patron happy. Some times it just comes down to the bottom line and it is very plain and simple to anyone with basic accounting knowledge or business knowledge as to how the most expensive items on a menu with the DDP or especially during free dining would put a strain on profits for some of these resturants causing them to make changes. The same way the demand for a particular dish may be the deciding factor if still cost effective.

Of course during free dining the resorts may come out making more money, but some of the resturants could be making less. And vise versa when they put out a promotion for a discount at the resort. Disney wants their entire operation to make a profit and they are doing everything they can to make people come to the park and as they offer these packages, discounts, free dining and paid dining they are also examining each business's financial reporting to determine what the ultimate bottom line is and they are learning from that what these promotions are doing and tweaking future promotions because of the results. Even though it is about the bottom line overall, and these promotions are being offered, I can guarantee you that each and every business still has a forecasted revenue and expense goal to reach at the same time which a particular manager is responsible for...resulting in some changes to try to reach these goals.

Would it not be almost mind boggling to see their financial reports. :rolleyes:

Certainly not all menu changes are due to the DDP, but it simply has had to be the cause of many.
 
momomonster said:
It ticks me off that my options have been restricted because Disney doesn't want to pay for someone's filet mignon. What if I want to pay for my own darn steak?
Um, then you dine at a restaurant that offers filet mignon? Just a thought...

Lewisc said:
Moving an expensive appetizer to the entree menu has no effect on cash customers. I find it hard to believe a waiter will refuse to serve that item as an appetizer. That's a good compromise position.
Right. The patron simply says, "I'd like to have the sushi as my appetizer".

disneynutz said:
DDP is a very successful money maker. Next year even better. Any idea what their cost is for food. About 20% has been reported.
20% makes sense. Once again (I've posted this on similar threads :teeth: )
The butcher shop attached to a well-know local steak house sells filet mignon for $8.99 a pound ($6.99 on sale, but we'll use the standard price for this example.
Because they buy in bulk for both the restaurant and the butcher shop, they're not paying anywhere close to that rate per pound but again, we're using the retail price - the price at which they make a profit (no, I don't know how much).
Le Cellier sells a 7 ounce filet for $27.99.
You get two 7 ounce steaks from a pound (okay, really, sixteen steaks from seven pounds, but two steaks is easier to calculate) with a little left over, since that the precooked weight.
So, Le Cellier is charging $55.98 for $8.99 worth of meat (again, retail - not even the lower wholesale rate Disney must be paying).
Figure the accompaniments cost about a dollar per plate.
Yep, that works out to a cost of 19.63% of the price of the meal.

Now, I'm well aware the difference is NOT all profit. It goes to equipment, supplies, utilities, payroll... but still
 
Loss leader, no way.

DDP is a very successful money maker. Next year even better. Any idea what their cost is for food. About 20% has been reported.

With the DDP every restaurant is busy, very busy. Any idea on how many people don't understand the DDP and therefore waist their credits, more than you would think. Why use credits? Because people don't think of them as money and unused credits are 100% profit. There are a ton of unused credits.

Under used credits still makes them a lot of money. A TS credit for a hamburger, please.

Next year is even better, buy the deluxe plan because it's a even better deal and leave even more credits on the table.

One poster on the boards had 30 unused snack credits so she bought soda and water to take home. Her airline baggage overweight fee was $50, ouch.

If this wasn't a great profit stream, Disney would discontinue the program tomorrow.
You are absolutely correct and I misspoke. It's not a loss leader as it does generate much traffic but the free dining particularily is a scam...Nothing is for free and if Disney can find a way to make xxxx from you by offering you something that they know they can make xxxx from AND get you to fill their hotel at rack rate then they will do it. Again, nothing is "free" and although it may work out financially for many people you really half to ask how is Disney doing this...But I will guarantee they don't see 'free dining' as free.

BTW, the grapevine has it that big changes are coming to the DDP's and free dining...They won't be going away but in a year or so they won't be anywhere near their current status either...Stay tuned.:thumbsup2
pirate:
 
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SimpsonsCouch.gif
 
The butcher shop attached to a well-know local steak house sells filet mignon for $8.99 a pound ($6.99 on sale, but we'll use the standard price for this example.
Because they buy in bulk for both the restaurant and the butcher shop, they're not paying anywhere close to that rate per pound but again, we're using the retail price - the price at which they make a profit (no, I don't know how much).
Le Cellier sells a 7 ounce filet for $27.99.
You get two 7 ounce steaks from a pound (okay, really, sixteen steaks from seven pounds, but two steaks is easier to calculate) with a little left over, since that the precooked weight.
So, Le Cellier is charging $55.98 for $8.99 worth of meat (again, retail - not even the lower wholesale rate Disney must be paying).
Figure the accompaniments cost about a dollar per plate.
Yep, that works out to a cost of 19.63% of the price of the meal.

Now, I'm well aware the difference is NOT all profit. It goes to equipment, supplies, utilities, payroll... but still

This is one of the points we disagreed on in a previous thread (remember my crack about the horse meat :lmao:). Current wholesale beef prices of PSMO (means peeled, side muscle on; a classification for untrimmed whole beef tenderlion) run approx. $10/lb. This price goes up once the beef is trimmed, cleaned and cut into steaks; when all is said and done to the tenderloin, wholesale price per pound goes up to about $17-$20/lb. If your butcher is selling it for $9/lb I would suspect a lower grade of meat or as I said earlier, horse meat. :lmao:

Most steakhouses make so little profit from steaks they push appetizers, add ons (shrimp skewer, salad, dessert, alcohol, etc.) and charge a little extra on pasta dishes and chicken entrees to make up the lower profit on steaks.

Really, I don't want to get into a long discussion on menu food cost and the economics of menu planning tonight.......why does it always seem the food threads always break down into these types of discussions???? That's why I love my food porn thread..........no massive debates there!!! :cloud9:


:thumbsup2
 
You are absolutely correct and I misspoke. It's not a loss leader as it does generate much traffic but the free dining particularily is a scam...Nothing is for free and if Disney can find a way to make xxxx from you by offering you something that they know they can make xxxx from AND get you to fill their hotel at rack rate then they will do it. Again, nothing is "free" and although it may work out financially for many people you really half to ask how is Disney doing this...But I will guarantee they don't see 'free dining' as free.

BTW, the grapevine has it that big changes are coming to the DDP's and free dining...They won't be going away but in a year or so they won't be anywhere near their current status either...Stay tuned.:thumbsup2
pirate:


:stir:
 
You are absolutely correct and I misspoke. It's not a loss leader as it does generate much traffic but the free dining particularily is a scam...Nothing is for free and if Disney can find a way to make xxxx from you by offering you something that they know they can make xxxx from AND get you to fill their hotel at rack rate then they will do it. Again, nothing is "free" and although it may work out financially for many people you really half to ask how is Disney doing this...But I will guarantee they don't see 'free dining' as free.

BTW, the grapevine has it that big changes are coming to the DDP's and free dining...They won't be going away but in a year or so they won't be anywhere near their current status either...Stay tuned.:thumbsup2
pirate:

Sometimes I get so caught up in a discussion that I forget to paint the whole picture. Deep down inside I guess that I am afraid that Disney will get too greedy for their own good. WDW is a wonderful place. Like others, we use it to get away from what we consider to be a screwed up world. A magical place where you can expect things to be the way they should be. A higher standard for sure. Unfortunately corporate greed has caused many a company to fail. Disney is starting to show the same greed before failure signs and it has me worried and sad.
 
It is not just as simple as serving the food the chef wants to serve or making every single patron happy. Some times it just comes down to the bottom line and it is very plain and simple to anyone with basic accounting knowledge or business knowledge as to how the most expensive items on a menu with the DDP or especially during free dining would put a strain on profits for some of these resturants causing them to make changes. The same way the demand for a particular dish may be the deciding factor if still cost effective.



Actually the Executive Chef is the very person who decides what will be on the menu. As for making people happy, I do not want anyone working for me if they don't intend on doing everything in their power to make everyone in my restaurant happy. Will they always succeed, no, but I want them to try!

As for the basic accounting you refer to, yes the bottom line is ultimately what keeps you open. But will the restaurant be able to maintain the bottom line if the customers are not made happy??? Will the chef be able to keep his job (or keep his restaurant open if he is the owner) if the menu does not appeal to the target consumer??? As has been stated by others, DDP and free DDP are completely different animals. DDP can be comparable to those who get a nice room discount and pay full price OOP for food........it is a discount either way. Free DDP on the other hand is used to fill rooms that may not normally be booked due to the possibility of hurricanes.........this program probably could be considered a "loss leader" as Pete said before since the food is being consumed without any incoming compensation. Either way, WDW will make money on the program (with or without menu changes).


:thumbsup2
 
I'll make it simple. What Disney run restaurant has dropped steak from the menu as a result of DDP? What Disney run restaurant has dropped lobster as a result of free dining? It's easy, menus aren't confidential.

I'm not calling you a liar, rather I'm saying the accuracy of your information is questionable. You previously told a poster that Shula's is better then the Yachtsman because they serve Prime Beef. I don't think you lie, I think you post information that you think is true but it isn't true.

YIKES!!!! I'm being called a liar on the DIS! Hey mods how do we feel about this kind of behavior???:confused3

Just because you can't follow what I'm saying doesn't make it wrong. You can state your position to high heaven and it's still just your opinion. You have offered no proof with your opinions and while it's true I can't name my Chef sources for their sake (and our friendship) I do stand by what I say based on their position. You don't have to believe me or even read my posts but you shouldn't cast dispersions upon my character.:sad2:
pirate:
 
Sorry to butt in, just wanted to know if WGP really cut out the crab cakes on the DDP? I'm a foodie and was looking forward to these.

Yes. I ate there on Saturday Augus 25th. Crab Cakes were off rhe menu. As was the filet, the Wolf's Steak and the weinerschnitzel.
 
However, the crab cakes, the filet, and the veal weinerschnitzel, are all available at WPGC-Upstairs - at higher prices even as of May than they were on the WPGC menu until the changes earlier this month.
 
However, the crab cakes, the filet, and the veal weinerschnitzel, are all available at WPGC-Upstairs - at higher prices even as of May than they were on the WPGC menu until the changes earlier this month.

Some of the "foodies" complain about the DDP, and DDP guests, "ruining" their restaurants. Sounds like WP is accomodating them with their upstairs restaurant. Surprised we don't see those people congratulating WP.:) Let me guess, at least some of them don't want to pay the price, does WPC upstairs room accept the DDE.
 


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