What's with the Menu Changes?

[Peter Pirate 2]

Agree to disagree.

 

[mcdee1980]

Can anyone answer my question? Which menus have changed?

 

[jarestel]

Anyway, as I said earlier I think my arguments come from a different place than some (perhaps I should keep them to myself?) as I'm generally railing against today's Disney in general, with dining being my favorite whipping boy, in my quest to keep Walt's idea of "give the guest more than they expect" alive in all pertinent Disney discussion.

Keep those comments coming! In most instances here on the DIS, being right or wrong is too subjective of a call to make definitively anyway. I agree with your basic premise though. It seems to me that restaurants are one type of business that just doesn't operate as effectively at 100% occupancy. (unless you're running a chow hall or some other cafeteria style self-serve establishment.)

Servers are more harried tending to too many tables at once, food preparation suffers from too many things happening at once, and wait times become uncomfortably long, both for tables and for service. It seems the WDW restaurants would operate more efficiently, and more profitably at 75% full if patrons paid the true cost of the meal. Which at some point will happen anyway, because Disney isn't going to subsidize meals forever.

From the perspective of the dining patron, less crowded is certainly better though from the restaurant's point of view, 100% full with everyone paying menu prices would be ideal. It just seems to be the worst of both worlds when you have WDW restaurants 100% full with too many discounted meals ringing up at the cash register.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Can anyone answer my question? Which menus have changed?

Um. let's see.

Chefs de France removed two items from its menu and added two other items.

Wolfgang Puck Cafe removed some items and added others, although since I don't have access to the old menu I can't tell you if it was an even swap. But some of the outrage over those changes is due to the removal of the $14.95 crab cakes, the $27.95 steak and to a MUCH lesser degree (i.e. I've seen one mention) the veal weinerschnitzel at about the same price as the steak.

Spoodle's changed its menu when it changed Chefs; that had NOTHING to do with the DDP.

Somebody thought Coral Reef took the ahi tuna off the menu because it didn't appear on the allearsnet updated version, but that was human error.

Boatwright's has removed one or two items and replaced them with others, I think - again, I don't have the old menu.

These are the changes of which I'm aware. Now, keep in mind, as has been stated repeatedly by the accused Kool-Ade drinkers , menus change. Fridays changes its menu (reducing portion size) and runs a TV ad campaign about it. Applebee's changes its menu, ditto. A Disney restaurant changes its menu? The world's coming to an end "Everybody into the storm cellah!"

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Maybe I don't understand the whole DDP thing. We've never done it, but I do know that they always ask if you're on it when you check in with the host/hostess. From what I understand, Disney, in some instances, declares some menu items "off limits" to DDP diners unless they want to pay full price for it themselves. So here's my question:

From a purely financial standpoint, if the steaks were still big sellers with non-DDP guests, why completely take them off the menu when they could simply disallow them on the dining plan?

ETA: Little OT, but I've always wanted to know, do DDP participants get a special menu that delete menu items that are not on the dining plan, or does the server tell you? How does that work exactly?

 

[Lewisc]

Your understanding is not correct. DDP guests receive the same menu as any other guest. AFAIK Disney owned restaurants never had any exclusions. The only exception, appetizers/desserts that are priced (and portioned) for sharing are either excluded or must be ordered by 2 or 3 guests.

A few of the non-Disney owned restaurants have some exclusions but restaurants like WPC removed those menu items rather then deal with unhappy DDP guests. WP has the upstairs dining room, which doesn't participate.

edited to say the CG has been know to move some of the more expensive appetizers to the entree section of the menu. Cash guests could order it as an appetizer, I'm sure the server would bring it out as an appetizer but DDP guests would have to order it instead of a "regular" entree.

Maybe I don't understand the whole DDP thing. We've never done it, but I do know that they always ask if you're on it when you check in with the host/hostess. From what I understand, Disney, in some instances, declares some menu items "off limits" to DDP diners unless they want to pay full price for it themselves. So here's my question:

From a purely financial standpoint, if the steaks were still big sellers with non-DDP guests, why completely take them off the menu when they could simply disallow them on the dining plan?

ETA: Little OT, but I've always wanted to know, do DDP participants get a special menu that delete menu items that are not on the dining plan, or does the server tell you? How does that work exactly?

 

[mickey2000]

Maybe I don't understand the whole DDP thing. We've never done it, but I do know that they always ask if you're on it when you check in with the host/hostess. From what I understand, Disney, in some instances, declares some menu items "off limits" to DDP diners unless they want to pay full price for it themselves. So here's my question:

From a purely financial standpoint, if the steaks were still big sellers with non-DDP guests, why completely take them off the menu when they could simply disallow them on the dining plan?

Because there is a surplus of Ducks at WDW and Mickey got a Mad Cow sickness on the DDP

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Your understanding is not correct. DDP guests receive the same menu as any other guest. AFAIK Disney owned restaurants never had any exclusions. The only exception, appetizers/desserts that are priced (and portioned) for sharing are either excluded or must be ordered by 2 or 3 guests.

A few of the non-Disney owned restaurants have some exclusions but restaurants like WPC removed those menu items rather then deal with unhappy DDP guests. WP has the upstairs dining room, which doesn't participate.

edited to say the CG has been know to move some of the more expensive appetizers to the entree section of the menu. Cash guests could order it as an appetizer, I'm sure the server would bring it out as an appetizer but DDP guests would have to order it instead of a "regular" entree.

Interesting...I've never understood the whole concept. Thanks for the lesson...

 

[Lewisc]

Interesting...I've never understood the whole concept. Thanks for the lesson...

Most places that have price fixed special menus exclude (or surcharge) some items. Disney doesn't do this.

Disney has virtually no restrictions, and the restrictions are obvious. The kitchen sink is clearly intended for more then one guest.

As a result non-DDP guests blame the DDP every time their "favorite" menu item is dropped from the menu. DDP guests respond that menus change all the time.

I suspect a (very) few of the changes may be DDP driven. WPC used to surcharge a couple of the more expensive entrees. Now a couple of the most expensive entrees have been removed from the menu.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Because there is a surplus of Ducks at WDW and Mickey got a Mad Cow sickness on the DDP

Nice try - but there are twice as many of those white birds as there are ducks in your picture.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Most places that have price fixed special menus exclude (or surcharge) some items. Disney doesn't do this.

Disney has virtually no restrictions, and the restrictions are obvious. The kitchen sink is clearly intended for more then one guest.

As a result non-DDP guests blame the DDP every time their "favorite" menu item is dropped from the menu. DDP guests respond that menus change all the time.

I suspect a (very) few of the changes may be DDP driven. WPC used to surcharge a couple of the more expensive entrees. Now a couple of the most expensive entrees have been removed from the menu.

Here we go again.

Very few, really? How can you summize this anymore than my saying "most all"? The free dining in particular causes menu changes, based on when they happen and the type of change they are, that leaves the only one reasonable assumption as to why it was done. IMO, it would be unreasonable or naive to think otherwise. We know it's about the money at this point so the removal of a steak or lobster item or relocation of expensive appitizers is obviously being caused by one thing.

 

[illiniowl]

As a result non-DDP guests blame the DDP every time their "favorite" menu item is dropped from the menu. DDP guests respond that menus change all the time.

I suspect a (very) few of the changes may be DDP driven. WPC used to surcharge a couple of the more expensive entrees. Now a couple of the most expensive entrees have been removed from the menu.

To be fair, I bellyached precisely because I am on the DDP, and paying for it. I see the changes as a diminution (a small one, to be sure) in the value I expected to receive in exchange for my $$. With that said, if Disney is going to make cost-cutting changes to a menu due to the DDP, from a purely selfish POV I would rather they cut the item than leave it on the menu but tell me I can't order it. Any parent of a small child can understand the dynamics there, and I'm sure many Disney Dining execs are parents. A surcharge would be OK with me, but in doing so you start down the slippery slope toward indicating to DDP patrons that they are second-class citizens and cheapskates, which I think is not the way Disney wants to do things generally.

 

[momomonster]

In my perspective (not using Disney Dining), it's "worse" to lose menu options because of a choice someone else makes than a choice I make for myself.

I'm not on DD this trip because I thought it would be better to pay a la carte (separate tickets, room, etc). It ticks me off that my options have been restricted because Disney doesn't want to pay for someone's filet mignon. What if I want to pay for my own darn steak? I can't, especially now that I'm so close to our trip that many ADRs are taken and changing plans now would be difficult, if not impossible.

Highly annoying, to say the least.

 

[Lewisc]

Nothing like making up, and distorting, facts to support your position.

The concern is with the effect the Disney Dining Plan has on non DDP guests.

Moving an expensive appetizer to the entree menu has no effect on cash customers. I find it hard to believe a waiter will refuse to serve that item as an appetizer. That's a good compromise position.

I haven't read any reports of any Disney run restaurant dropping steak or lobster from their menu. A few posters said lobster was being dropped at Narcosess but the restaurant denied it. It's certainly plausible WPC dropped steak due to an increasing numbers of DDP guests BUT cash guests have the option of dining upstairs where the steak is still on the menu. WPC formerly charged a surcharge for the more expensive entrees.

A few posters blame every menu change on the DDP.

Here we go again.

Very few, really? How can you summize this anymore than my saying "most all"? The free dining in particular causes menu changes, based on when they happen and the type of change they are, that leaves the only one reasonable assumption as to why it was done. IMO, it would be unreasonable or naive to think otherwise. We know it's about the money at this point so the removal of a steak or lobster item or relocation of expensive appitizers is obviously being caused by one thing.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Nothing like making up, and distorting, facts to support your position.

The concern is with the effect the Disney Dining Plan has on non DDP guests.

Moving an expensive appetizer to the entree menu has no effect on cash customers. I find it hard to believe a waiter will refuse to serve that item as an appetizer. That's a good compromise position.

I haven't read any reports of any Disney run restaurant dropping steak or lobster from their menu. A few posters said lobster was being dropped at Narcosess but the restaurant denied it. It's certainly plausible WPC dropped steak due to an increasing numbers of DDP guests BUT cash guests have the option of dining upstairs where the steak is still on the menu. WPC formerly charged a surcharge for the more expensive entrees.

A few posters blame every menu change on the DDP.

That would make sense. Financially, if Disney is attempting to reign in the choices of DDP participants because they are purchasing everything at a discount, I feel that it would be well within their rights. It kind of like the AP discounts that you get at the Deluxe resorts. For example, you can book a standard room at the AKL for $145/night in December, but if you want a Savannah room, you've got to pay full price. No one is left feeling like a "second class citizen", because you always have the option to purchase the full price room of your choice. Obviously, if Disney is doing things like moving apps to entrees, they're trying to maximize their profit on the dining plan. As a full price paying Disney guest, I see nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

Just FYI... want steak at WDW ? These are your options :

MK :
Tony's Town Square
Epcot :
Le Cellier
Rose & Crown
Coral Reef
MGM :
50's Prime Time
Sci-Fi
Mama Melrose's
Resorts :
Jiko's
Shutters
Big River
California Grill
Concourse Steakhouse
Maya Grill
Pepper Market
Kona Cafe
Narcoossee's
Grand Floridian Cafe
Olivia's Cafe
Boatwright's
Artist Point
Yacht Club Galley
Yachtsman Steakhouse
Downtown Disney
Fulton's
Planet Hollywood
Raglan Road

Seems more than enough to me.

You missed Flying Fish, they have a steak on their menu. Their may be others as well.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

I can only speak for our experiences but that's exactly what we got on our trips. We've traveled through most of Europe, a good part of the US, and many other countries. We have NEVER gotten that kind of service anywhere but at Disney. Geesh... my mom's 58. You think she asked to come back to WDW because she wants to ride Pooh again ?

I'd go just to ride Pooh. But I agree with everything you said Disney service is usually the best anywhere. The only time I did not like the service I recieved was when I ate at 1900 Park Fare, and once at Jiko.

 

[grimley1968]

It ticks me off that my options have been restricted because Disney doesn't want to pay for someone's filet mignon. What if I want to pay for my own darn steak? I can't, especially now that I'm so close to our trip that many ADRs are taken and changing plans now would be difficult, if not impossible.

Make ADR's at any one of those listed restaurants that serve steak. About the only one that might be a tough ADR to get on that list is Le Cellier. You can also try walking up to restaurants. I've never waited more than 45 minutes when I've walked up to restaurants without an ADR. I have no problems at all with them changing the menus. That list is a huge one that serves steaks. There are other things to eat, folks! Some of us might like trying them.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

To be fair, I bellyached precisely because I am on the DDP, and paying for it. I see the changes as a diminution (a small one, to be sure) in the value I expected to receive in exchange for my $$. With that said, if Disney is going to make cost-cutting changes to a menu due to the DDP, from a purely selfish POV I would rather they cut the item than leave it on the menu but tell me I can't order it. Any parent of a small child can understand the dynamics there, and I'm sure many Disney Dining execs are parents. A surcharge would be OK with me, but in doing so you start down the slippery slope toward indicating to DDP patrons that they are second-class citizens and cheapskates, which I think is not the way Disney wants to do things generally.

So if you can't get it at a discount, then nobody should have it? What's next, price limits on every menu at Disney? If you personally can't afford a menu item, than no one should be able to order it? If you can't afford a Ferrari, than no one should drive one? Talk about a slippery slope!

 

[momomonster]

About the only one that might be a tough ADR to get on that list is Le Cellier. You can also try walking up to restaurants. There are other things to eat, folks! Some of us might like trying them.

An ADR at Le Cellier might be tough obtaining at this late date?

I made my ADRs a month ago and could only get a 5:10 seating at KONA (which I consider early)! I might try as you suggest and ask about walk-up ressies and I'm fine eating non-steak items.

It's just the principle. Disney shouldn't be messing with the menus just because they don't want to shell out for free dining. It's a bait-and-switch, and I wasn't even buying into the game!