What's with the Menu Changes?

[disneyfav4ever]

Now that I got that mini-rant out of me, I'd like to pose the question again. Let's say the people who say that Disney is getting rid of the expensive food items to do free DDP on the cheap are 100% correct. Would those of you who partake in the DDP happily pay full price for the steak/lobster if Disney discontinued DDP and simply offer high quality food, including the great steaks you love as well as upscale alternatives?

I order whatever sounds good. The only reason I have the DDP this time, (and this is the first time I'm using it, since I'm able to travel then and it's during the food and wine festival, and since it was free.) I don't think I'd ever actually pay for the DDP though, maybe the deluxe. Anyway back to your question, yes, I would order whatever, and pay whatever for it. I've paid $30+ for steaks before, and would do it again.

 

[mrzrich]

I take that back, this is the third thread I've seen regarding the changes.

I started one of those three posts. I personally was looking foward to the weinerschnitzel at WGP. I didn't get emotional when I saw the changes, I just changed my ADR. Maybe WGP will get the message, maybe they won't. BTW I would have paid a little extra for higher priced menu items. Like a surcharge for steak or lobster or something.

 

[TDC Nala]

They'll only get the message if the restaurant can't replace those who are cancelling the ADRS.

I haven't heard of a restaurant that doesn't change menus. Was there an opinion presented that once a restaurant establishes its menu, it should never change it because that will disappoint someone?

Or was it that restaurants shouldn't remove items that many diners may want, like steak?

 

[illiniowl]

They'll only get the message if the restaurant can't replace those who are cancelling the ADRS.

I haven't heard of a restaurant that doesn't change menus. Was there an opinion presented that once a restaurant establishes its menu, it should never change it because that will disappoint someone?

Or was it that restaurants shouldn't remove items that many diners may want, like steak?

Let me sum up with complete objectivity the schools of thought that have been presented in this thread:

1. It is certainly suspicious that as the DDP has increased in popularity and in particular as we have approached the free dining period that some indisputably popular entrees that just happened also to be among the highest-priced (most notably, steaks) have been cut from menus or been downsized.

2. How dare it be suggested that WDW is looking out for its bottom line? Heresy! Menus change all the time! Chefs are tired of cooking steaks! People are tired of eating them! It's all a coincidence! And don't get so upset about it!

I'll yield the floor.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

Let me sum up with complete objectivity the schools of thought that have been presented in this thread:

1. It is certainly suspicious that as the DDP has increased in popularity and in particular as we have approached the free dining period that some indisputably popular entrees that just happened also to be among the highest-priced (most notably, steaks) have been cut from menus or been downsized.

2. How dare it be suggested that WDW is looking out for its bottom line? Heresy! Menus change all the time! Chefs are tired of cooking steaks! People are tired of eating them! It's all a coincidence! And don't get so upset about it!

I'll yield the floor.

But there are still steaks on Disney menus. Just because WPC took their steak off their menu, doesn't mean that steaks are gone from WDW. WPC isn't even owned by Disney, and if cost was an issue they could of added a surcharge, which they've done to other menu items.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I started one of those three posts. I personally was looking foward to the weinerschnitzel at WGP. I didn't get emotional when I saw the changes, I just changed my ADR. Maybe WGP will get the message, maybe they won't.

Don't stop there. I'm 100% serious. If you don't like the changes in the Wolfgang Puck Cafe menu, contact Levy Restaurants and let them know. I posted the link earlier in this thread, or anybody can just Google Levy Restaurants or Wolfgang Puck Cafe and click on the "Contact Us" link.

Assertive works better than passive-aggressive (and that's NOT intended to be insulting or offensive to anyone, it just makes sense: a business will know that a customer canceled a reservation; they won't know WHY unless the customer tells them).

 

[disneyfav4ever]

Don't stop there. I'm 100% serious. If you don't like the changes in the Wolfgang Puck Cafe menu, contact Levy Restaurants and let them know. I posted the link earlier in this thread, or anybody can just Google Levy Restaurants or Wolfgang Puck Cafe and click on the "Contact Us" link.

Assertive works better than passive-aggressive (and that's NOT intended to be insulting or offensive to anyone, it just makes sense: a business will know that a customer canceled a reservation; they won't know WHY unless the customer tells them).

ITA with you. Contact the company, venting on the DIS is fine, but it won't get you anywhere.

 

[apostolic4life]

2. How dare it be suggested that WDW is looking out for its bottom line? Heresy!

Menus change all the time! Chefs are tired of cooking steaks! People are tired of eating them! It's all a coincidence! And don't get so upset about it!

What heresy......the whole purpose of WDW as a publicly traded company is to make money. I personally encourage them to get every dime the can for whatever they do. This view is not new for me as evidenced by posts to other threads where I have defended Disney's right/obligation to make money! I have not seen any post on this thread saying they should not make money from us. Here is my first post on this thread:

Changing menus are a part of the life of a good restaurant. Menus at fine restaurants may change from day to day depending on what can be purchased fresh. Changes take place based on what seems to be selling or not selling. When new Executive Chefs are hired the menu will undergo modifications or even complete overhauls. Sometimes changes will be made strictly based on financial considerations. There are many individual reasons, but most of the time changes are due to a combination of reasons.

WDW has probably considered many factors in the changes they make to a menu. Customer reactions to the changes were probably considered also. Not everyone will be pleased when a change is made, but I am sure WDW is banking on the masses being ok with it. The few who are disappointed because their favorite item is gone will still spend their money for food, maybe just at a different WDW restaurant. In the end they will still get your money.

If you read my original post you will see my view on the factors which could cause a venue to change their menu. I actually think it is a combination of factors but for some reason people seem to only want to attribute it to the existence of the DDP. DDP probably factored into the overall consideration on a financial basis, but the other factors (in combination) should not be dismissed as improbabilities.

 

[nanalisa]

We are using the DDP in Oct for the first time. It's the first time is 16 years I've messed with ADR's. We liked the idea of having everything paid for 45 days in advance of our trip and being able to order whatever we want from the menu. The DDP won't change where we eat since we've always eaten at TS restaurants. I don't intend to make a point of getting the most expensive item on the menu, but if I want the lobster at Cap'n Jacks, I'll be darned if anyone is going to make me feel guilty about it.

Also, am I wrong in thinking that the folks who have the free dining, didn't get any other discounts? How is this different from paying 39.00 per and getting a hefty resort discount? I don't see how you can blame the FREE dining for menu deletions.

Are the restaurants dropping the 30.00 steak and replacing it for another 30.00 entree, or are they just dropping the most expensive menu items? If the latter is true then I don't know how anyone would think its not because of the DDP. I recall the summer before last at the Teppenyaki restaurant, folks were ordering the sushi appitizer and lobster dinner. Now you can still get sushi and lobster but not on the DDP, it's a seperate item. Did Disney do this because all restaurants change their menus from time to time? I don't think so either.

 

[marivaid]

Of course WDW is looking for the bottom line. They're a BUSINESS. They're here to make money and they're damn good at it. The recent changes in the DDP show how good they are - making people think they're still getting a great deal even though the value dropped about $15 and you're only paying $1 less.

I disagree that the changes are due exclusively to the free DDP.
The steak at Spoodles has been gone since January - we were there, DM had planned to order it, and it was nowhere to be seen.
As for WGP, they make their own rules. If the reason to get rid of the steak was the free dining, again they could have just added it to the list of entrees that you can't get on the DDP (free or not). They do it at WPE and no one seems to have a problem with that.

Maybe it's just BOTH. Maybe a huge steak had nothing to do on the menu of a Californian restaurant to begin with, and if they were going to get rid of it, might as well do that before all these people on free dining come over.

Just FYI... want steak at WDW ? These are your options :

MK :
Tony's Town Square
Epcot :
Le Cellier
Rose & Crown
Coral Reef
MGM :
50's Prime Time
Sci-Fi
Mama Melrose's
Resorts :
Jiko's
Shutters
Big River
California Grill
Concourse Steakhouse
Maya Grill
Pepper Market
Kona Cafe
Narcoossee's
Grand Floridian Cafe
Olivia's Cafe
Boatwright's
Artist Point
Yacht Club Galley
Yachtsman Steakhouse
Downtown Disney
Fulton's
Planet Hollywood
Raglan Road

Seems more than enough to me.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Well we're getting somewhere, at least some of you have noted that the DDP may be 'somewhat' responsible for the changes in dining policy, including menu changes/adjustments. If you can't see why you're not trying, IMO.

As to the 'Disney's a business' thing, well of course that's true but if just being a successfull business like Walmart or Home Depot is all you expect from Disney then some of us (me, at least) are on a totally different page. Disney was always known for parting you and your money, even in Walt's time. They were also known for exceeding your expectations, for giving quality and service that you'd never dreamed of...If all you expect from Disney is bottom line thinking then we'll always disagree because that's not my Disney (movies, parks or dining).

 

[marivaid]

Well we're getting somewhere, at least some of you have noted that the DDP may be 'somewhat' responsible for the changes in dining policy, including menu changes/adjustments. If you can't see why you're not trying, IMO.

Actually the DDP itself is not responsible for anything.
There's someone, somewhere, who decided that filling resorts that would otherwise be half empty, getting $38.99 per day per guest months in advance and the guarantee that these guests would spend the majority (if not the totality) of their vacation money on Disney property, is not quite enough.
Wanna blame someone, blame that person.

They were also known for exceeding your expectations, for giving quality and service that you'd never dreamed of...

I can only speak for our experiences but that's exactly what we got on our trips. We've traveled through most of Europe, a good part of the US, and many other countries. We have NEVER gotten that kind of service anywhere but at Disney. Geesh... my mom's 58. You think she asked to come back to WDW because she wants to ride Pooh again ?

 

[mcdee1980]

I am just curious . . . can someone make me a list of the menus that have changed recently? I know that WPC, Spoodles, and CG have changed--Who else?

 

[kaytieeldr]

paid for 45 days in advance of our trip and being able to order whatever we want from the menu. The DDP won't change where we eat since we've always eaten at TS restaurants. I don't intend to make a point of getting the most expensive item on the menu, but if I want the lobster at Cap'n Jacks, I'll be darned if anyone is going to make me feel guilty about it.

Absolutely! And if (since) I don’t want the lobster at Cap’n Jack’s, there’s no way I’m going to order it just because I’m on the Dining Plan!

Also, am I wrong in thinking that the folks who have the free dining, didn't get any other discounts? How is this different from paying 39.00 per and getting a hefty resort discount? I don't see how you can blame the FREE dining for menu deletions.

Now, see, you’re thinking like a solo traveler. Yes, I’m getting the equivalent of a $39 ‘discount’ on my room. A couple visiting Disney at the same time is getting the equivalent of a $78 ‘discount’ – on a Value resort room. That means they’re paying Disney $14.68 for the room and their meals. Any menu changes are the fault of this imaginary couple! There! I’ve solved the case! I’m exhausted… I need a glass of iced tea…

I can only speak for our experiences but that's exactly what we got on our trips. We've traveled through most of Europe, a good part of the US, and many other countries. We have NEVER gotten that kind of service anywhere but at Disney. Geesh... my mom's 58. You think she asked to come back to WDW because she wants to ride Pooh again ?

That’s not totally unthinkable. I want to go back to WDW because I want to see Carousel of Progress again… and again… and again… and again…

 

[MommyBoo!]

You know, we're getting a discount on the room and getting the dining plan because we booked a package through AAA. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd go with a room discount. Especially now with the DDP changes.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Actually the DDP itself is not responsible for anything.
There's someone, somewhere, who decided that filling resorts that would otherwise be half empty, getting $38.99 per day per guest months in advance and the guarantee that these guests would spend the majority (if not the totality) of their vacation money on Disney property, is not quite enough.
Wanna blame someone, blame that person.

I can only speak for our experiences but that's exactly what we got on our trips. We've traveled through most of Europe, a good part of the US, and many other countries. We have NEVER gotten that kind of service anywhere but at Disney. Geesh... my mom's 58. You think she asked to come back to WDW because she wants to ride Pooh again ?

That first comment is totally disingenuous, IMO. We're not going to argue semantics here are we?

Regarding the rest: That's good for you and Disney. I've been visiting WDW since 1971 and the attitude, service, quality and for this discussion food are not what they were at their individual peaks. My parents (both gone now) never saw an ounce of 'magic' at WDW and saw the service as "OK" ... That's why our (individual) personal feelings aren't really relevent in discussing the 'what has or hasn't' transpired issues. I'll use Victoria and Albert's as an example. I've never been, will probably never go because the menu and experience isn't my cup of tea...That said I would ALWAYS tell anyone who asked that V&A's, based on my knowledge, is easily the best restaurant on WDW property. Because I personally like it? Well, I've already said that's not it but rather because their reputation speaks for itself and my personal taste doesn't enter that equation. REPUTATION AS A FINE DINING ESTABLISHMENT...Not a reputation as a financially succesful business I might add (although I'm sure it is proving that supreme quality and good business do not have to be mutually exclusive).

The DDP is a loss leader, no doubt about it and the resons they did it were all financially based, no doubt about it and a great many people find this offer a great value, magical and suiting to their tastes, no doubt about it. But because of their success with this program Disney has had to make changes to their operation to better facilitate (read maximize profit potential) said program which has meant (1) standardizing food vendors across the baord (2) guiding the menu to a more generic feel that DDP'ers are comfortable with (3) Offering less costly dishes over more costly dishes when possible and (4) making specific changes during 'free dining' so as to, again, maximize profit.

 

[Lewisc]

The problem is you assume the alternative to the DDP is the half empty restaurants that existed prior to the current DDP. Disney made a decision to make the restaurants more popular and more profitable. That philosophy is likely to continue, even if the DDP is discontinued. Sorry but the DDP is the result not the cause of Disney's decision to make the restaurants more profitable.

Guests who are looking for a more upscale dining experience can still patronize V&A, blueZoo, Shula's etc. Disney could have easily excluded a couple of signature restaurants from the DDP if they thought there were enough customers will to pay $$$

Well we're getting somewhere, at least some of you have noted that the DDP may be 'somewhat' responsible for the changes in dining policy, including menu changes/adjustments. If you can't see why you're not trying, IMO.

As to the 'Disney's a business' thing, well of course that's true but if just being a successfull business like Walmart or Home Depot is all you expect from Disney then some of us (me, at least) are on a totally different page. Disney was always known for parting you and your money, even in Walt's time. They were also known for exceeding your expectations, for giving quality and service that you'd never dreamed of...If all you expect from Disney is bottom line thinking then we'll always disagree because that's not my Disney (movies, parks or dining).

 

[jarestel]

For many, the DDP has nothing to do with food, menus, or anything else remotely so esoteric. It's all about the $$$. Witness the stampede to grab pitchforks, fire up torches, and the easy willingness to make pledges to "never darken Disney's doorway again" each time there is any talk here of changes to the perceived "value" - in terms of $$$ - to the program. I'm sure Disney hasn't failed to notice that quality is no longer of primary importance to the casual diner since rumored or actual price increases are usually met with the internet equivilent of rioting.

Are there still fine meals to be found at Disney? Of course, and nobody is saying otherwise. Just not as many choices anymore. Now we can debate whether these changes are simply due to a normal rotation of menu items or something more nefarious, like the desire not to lose as much money this year as they did last year on the dining plan, but I've always thought the explanation that makes the most sense is usually the right one. Since Disney is indeed a business, the desire to rake in money (mine! all mine!!!!) makes more sense to me than some kind of hoop-jumping, contortion-filled, follow the bouncing ball justification reasoning. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

It's just not that complicated but I don't discount the possibility that I could be entirely wrong in which case I simply say... whoops!

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

The problem is you assume the alternative to the DDP is the half empty restaurants that existed prior to the current DDP. Disney made a decision to make the restaurants more popular and more profitable. That philosophy is likely to continue, even if the DDP is discontinued. Sorry but the DDP is the result not the cause of Disney's decision to make the restaurants more profitable.

Guests who are looking for a more upscale dining experience can still patronize V&A, blueZoo, Shula's etc. Disney could have easily excluded a couple of signature restaurants from the DDP if they thought there were enough customers will to pay $$$

True enough Lewis as the "result not the cause" (is again) more semantical than actual differences we share...I realize it's Disney's right to operate this way but it's still OK that I lament the decision to lower quality (to any arguable degree) in favor of a healthier bottom line aren't I? Further when Disney finally realizes that in their quest for huge numbers they have chased away their 'safety net' and finally makes adjustments to their DDP's it will be my turn to be happy and it will have to be accepted by all the angry DDPer's because it's just Disney making a business decision, right?

Anyway, as I said earlier I think my arguments come from a different place than some (perhaps I should keep them to myself?) as I'm generally railing against today's Disney in general, with dining being my favorite whipping boy, in my quest to keep Walt's idea of "give the guest more than they expect" alive in all pertinent Disney discussion.

 

[Lewisc]

It's not semantics. If you think the DDP is the cause of menu changes then anything that reduces the number of DDP guests might solve "problem" you're having with the restaurants. If you think the DDP is the result then the restaurants won't go back if DDP becomes less popular.

The change in philosophy allows Disney to profitable serve more guests.

I think the best compromise would be to position a couple of signature restaurants below V&A but above the present signature restaurants. Seems like Disney doesn't think there are enough guests willing to pay $70-$100 per head.

True enough Lewis as the "result not the cause" (is again) more semantical than actual differences we share...I realize it's Disney's right to operate this way but it's still OK that I lament the decision to lower quality (to any arguable degree) in favor of a healthier bottom line aren't I? Further when Disney finally realizes that in their quest for huge numbers they have chased away their 'safety net' and finally makes adjustments to their DDP's it will be my turn to be happy and it will have to be accepted by all the angry DDPer's because it's just Disney making a business decision, right?

Anyway, as I said earlier I think my arguments come from a different place than some (perhaps I should keep them to myself?) as I'm generally railing against today's Disney in general, with dining being my favorite whipping boy, in my quest to keep Walt's idea of "give the guest more than they expect" alive in all pertinent Disney discussion.