What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[4theloveofdisney]

But which rules are laws and which are principles? The ten commandments for instance - laws or principles? And how are we supposed to tell? Is there something in the Bible that spells out which OT rules to follow and which we can ignore?

Perhaps it isn't spelled out in the Bible itself. Maybe we get to choose for ourselves which rules we want to follow (we can call them principles) and which rules we don't (we'll call those laws).

 

[Mrs.Toad]

I guess I just don't get all this upset. I grew up in a beach town on the Atlantic Coast. I sat on the beach all summer long and watched planes pull banners with advertising on them up and down the coastline all day long. I never remember anyone saying anything about it spoiling their atmosphere or view or anything.or worrying about the polution. I still say we all should have better things to concern ourselves with. I say with all love, get over it folks!

I'm not "upset" about the skywriter, but you just reminded me of something. I also grew up in a beach town, and I can remember being rudely awakened from a peaceful, wave-induced slumber by the drone of the airplane engines, flying low so people could see those banners they were pulling. The seagulls, boomboxes, children playing and people laughing never bothered me, but I hated that sound. It was like the outside world intruding on my peaceful oasis.

I know, it's not safe to fall asleep on the beach, but this was in the time of baby-oil and reflective tanning blankets, long before SPF became a household term.

 

[BurkeTribe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JennyMominRI
I don't believe that G-d justifies killing babies...I view the Tanakh as a book inspired by G-d but written by men..Men with biases.. It is a history book. It'sThe story of Jews seeking to understand their G-d in a very primitive time and it is written from their POV

Now this makes perfect sense to me.

It makes sense to me also... I just am of the opinion that one of their biases was that they needed to make up a "god" of their own as a defense against other races "gods" and as an easy answer to things about nature that they didn't understand

As for the sky-writing... how long before Universal hires someone to write "UNIVERSAL" over and over above WDW with the 5 plane method ?

Just say no to sky-graffiti

 

[JennyMominRI]

Let me try
(This is my belief)
The Israelites were under Mosaic law in the OT, so they followed laws like dietary rules, rules for cleanliness and things were more "set in stone" as to consequences, etc. because of the time they lived in. They also had to make animal sacrifices on altars to atone for their sins. When Jesus came along and died as a propitiatory sacrifice, that means we are no longer under "law", but now observe principles.

Just to clarify , animal sacrifces were one way to atone for sin and only used for one type of sin ,unintentional sins against G-d... There have always been other ways to atone.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Originally Posted by bgirldeb
Let me try
(This is my belief)
The Israelites were under Mosaic law in the OT, so they followed laws like dietary rules, rules for cleanliness and things were more "set in stone" as to consequences, etc. because of the time they lived in. They also had to make animal sacrifices on altars to atone for their sins. When Jesus came along and died as a propitiatory sacrifice, that means we are no longer under "law", but now observe principles


This is also what I believe. However, Jenny will tell you that Jews did not make sacrifices to atone for sins. What she has shared about Jewish beliefs is not the same as the little I have studied. The belief that Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice makes sense to Christians who believe this. But, if there was no need for sacrifice to atone for sin then it hardly makes sense, right? I suppose then the reason for His death wasonly because of who He claimed He was (God) and maybe fear of a movement or something.

LOL Buckalew,,,you are a step ahead of me...And yes,you summed up Jewish belief...There are and were other ways to atone for sins..Yom Kippor,the day of Atonement is one , Teshuvah meaning the return(return to G-d) is another way..Teshuvah is a process of repenting asking for foregvieness etc... I understand that that Christians believe other wise though

 

[JennyMominRI]

But which rules are laws and which are principles? The ten commandments for instance - laws or principles? And how are we supposed to tell? Is there something in the Bible that spells out which OT rules to follow and which we can ignore?

Perhaps it isn't spelled out in the Bible itself. Maybe we get to choose for ourselves which rules we want to follow (we can call them principles) and which rules we don't (we'll call those laws).

You didn't ask for any sort of Jewish explanation ,but I'll give you one.. Jews don't really focus a lot of the 10 commandments. 10 were not good enough ,we have 613
You have to realize that to a Jew, the written Torah is just a small part of scripture..In some ways it's like the table of contents with the Talmud being the full book..What does though shall not murder mean? The answer is in the Talmud..How does one honor thy mother and father..It's in the Talmud..How does one keep the sabbath, It's in the Talmud .. When you look at the Tankakh/Torah you only get a small part of the picture, and I do realize that that picture seems harse..You see the verse about stoning the wayword son...You don't get all of the talmud verses to explain it..You see orders for the death penalty but you don't see in the Talmud where it says that a court that executes more than 1 person in 100 years is a bloody court.. YOu just do not get a full and accurate picture of what is being said by only looking at the 10 commandments.

 

[salmoneous]

You didn't ask for any sort of Jewiish explination ,but I'll give you one..

Let me see if I can focus my question a bit. Yes, there are some Jews who seek to obey all the rules and commandments in the Bible. But many Jews, like almost all Christians don't. They choose some of the rules to be things we should strive to obey, and other rules to be things we can ignore.

So whether Christian or Jew, if you believe we don't need to strive to follow all the rules, how do you decide which rules still apply, and which don't?

 

[JennyMominRI]

Originally Posted by bgirldeb
Let me try
(This is my belief)
The belief that Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice makes sense to Christians who believe this. But, if there was no need for sacrifice to atone for sin then it hardly makes sense, right? I suppose then the reason for His death wasonly because of who He claimed He was (God) and maybe fear of a movement or something.

Buckalew..I had to come back to this with a thought.... You say,if what Jews believe is true then what was the point of Jesus? Why did he have to come..Well think about what the Jewish mom said last night about the Christian moms ancestors being Pagans 2000 years ago.. That's true(and I also know some perfectly lovely pagans today)..But back then when you believe that Jesus came there were 2 types of people, Pagans and Jews..And the Jews were small in number..Well, Your Jesus brought how many people to a belief in the G-d of Abraham? Had he not come many many people would have continued with the same religious practices they had 2000 years ago?You would not have a world that is 1/3 Christian ,a world in which 1/3 of the world believes in the God of Abraham..More if you add in Muslims.. So you can say that Jesus would still have a purpose. It was to bring Many, many, billions of people to the G-d of Abraham.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Let me see if I can focus my question a bit. Yes, there are some Jews who seek to obey all the rules and commandments in the Bible. But many Jews, like almost all Christians don't. They choose some of the rules to be things we should strive to obey, and other rules to be things we can ignore.

So whether Christian or Jew, if you believe we don't need to strive to follow all the rules, how do you decide which rules still apply, and which don't?

Actually ,you won't find any Jew trying to follow all 613 rules. In fact it is impossible to do so. We can't follow commandments surrounding the temple,there is no temple..Some commandments are for men, Some for women,some for priests Some concern slaves and we don't keep slaves nowdays..I'm not going to go out and find a amalite to keep as a slave nowdays..Nor should I. IMB any commandment that can be applied today,I should try to apply... I don't.. I don't keep kosher.. But I do try to incoporate more mitzvahs into my life on a daily basis. This year I kept the commandment to build a Sukkah. I believe that as long as G-d sees that I am trying that is good enough.
I'm assuming you are going for the hypocrasy thing, the way people love to throw out the supposed leviticus law against homosexuality one minute and then mention how the dietary laws no longer need to be kept. etc?

 

[Buckalew11]

Backalew..I had to come back to this with a thought.... You say,if what Jews believe is true then what was the point of Jesus? Why did he have to come..Well think about what the Jewish mom said last night about the Christian moms ancestors being Pagans 2000 years ago.. That's true(and I also know some perfectly lovely pagans today)..But back then when you believe that Jesus came there were 2 types of people, Pagans and Jews..And the Jews were small in number..Well Your Jesus brought how many people to a belief in the G-d of Abraham? Had he not come many many people would have continued with the same religious practices they had 2000 years ago?You would not have a world that is 1/3 Christian ,a world in which 1/3 of the world believes in the God of Abraham..More if you add in Muslims.. So you can say that Jesus would still have a purpose. It was to bring Many many billions of people to the G-d of Abraham.

That makes good sense. Of course, I believe there is more to why but that definitely makes good sense and true. Thanks.

 

[JennyMominRI]

That makes good sense. Of course, I believe there is more to why but that definitely makes good sense and true. Thanks.

Right,I know your beliefs include much more,but I just wanted to show you another angle

 

[carrie s]

Let me see if I can focus my question a bit. Yes, there are some Jews who seek to obey all the rules and commandments in the Bible. But many Jews, like almost all Christians don't. They choose some of the rules to be things we should strive to obey, and other rules to be things we can ignore.

So whether Christian or Jew, if you believe we don't need to strive to follow all the rules, how do you decide which rules still apply, and which don't?

What I was taught is that some of the rules in the OT were things that people had to do to atone for sin.Jesus came into the world to wipe away our sin once and for all.He took our punishment for us.So if we accept that wonderful gift He gave us we dont need to do the things to atone for sin,Jesus has already done it for us.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

UGHG????? Where did that come from, how are "Priests" synonamous with God???? Not in my book, I'm no Catholic. Of course that's not cool, in my opinion that's one of the worst things that has ever happened. (Someone claiming to be a priest and to represent God doing something like that.) I think those priests that have done that should have the book thrown at them, and not the bible book, the law one. And no one's drinking any funky cool-aid either. You can't lump those groups in with the mainstream. I think its safe to say that most Christians don't advocate child molestation and mass suicide by lethal cool-aid. But I know that's how you probably think.

Well put, I will even go farther as to say you cannot be a Christian and advocate child molestation!

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

What I was taught is that some of the rules in the OT were things that people had to do to atone for sin.Jesus came into the world to wipe away our sin once and for all.He took our punishment for us.So if we accept that wonderful gift He gave us we dont need to do the things to atone for sin,Jesus has already done it for us.

Ditto, He came to free us from the law that became more and more difficult to accomplish. Atonement - once for all!

 

[salmoneous]

I'm assuming you are going for the hypocrasy thing,

If this were a different thread, I might ask a similar question to be "going for the hypocrisy thing." But I don't see a lot of hypocrisy in this thread (or at least in the current sub-discussion within the thread). I see a lot of people genuinely expressing their thoughts and opinions on religion.

So I am honestly asking those folks who see the Bible divided into two sets of rules - whether you call them laws vs principles, or "rules to atone for sin" vs "other rules", how do we know which is which? Is it something spelled out in the Bible. Or is it choices that we make about which rules to follow (just as you choose to build a Sukkah, but not keep kosher).

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

Deut. and Joshua are in the OT.

In the time period covered in the Bible, God has expanded how He deals with people. He had ways of atoning for sin in the OT and in the NT he sent Jesus which changed the way people attone for sin. We honor both portions of the Bible, but with the NT, the way followers of God were supposed to behave and conduct themselves was more clearly defined, and in some cases the "rules" of conduct changed.


ETA: I don't know if I'm explaining it clearly. Let me give you an example, followers of God in the OT had things like dietary rules that they lived by...in the NT we learned that to be a follower of God we didn't need to follow those dietary rules. That is just one of many examples.

That is a very good explanation. I might add that in the OT God was dealing with Israel and had to accomplish His goal of reuniting man to Himself, thus setting up the tribes and the priesthood. Being all knowing, He knew exactly what would have to take place for His will to be accomplished. Sometimes very harsh, but He was bound by His Word to Israel to send a Messiah and that supercedes what we may think as unjust.

 

[JennyMominRI]

If this were a different thread, I might ask a similar question to be "going for the hypocrisy thing." But I don't see a lot of hypocrisy in this thread (or at least in the current sub-discussion within the thread). I see a lot of people genuinely expressing their thoughts and opinions on religion.

So I am honestly asking those folks who see the Bible divided into two sets of rules - whether you call them laws vs principles, or "rules to atone for sin" vs "other rules", how do we know which is which? Is it something spelled out in the Bible. Or is it choices that we make about which rules to follow (just as you choose to build a Sukkah, but not keep kosher).

Ok,well that counts me out then,because I don't see 2 sets of rules.
Commandments that can be kept are meant to be kept.. Ideally I would keep all of the commandments that can be kept today. I hope to keep more and more as I move along in my journey..One day I hope to keep kosher.
The thing is I don't believe G-d Looks at me and says see Jenny eating that cheeseburger..She is not keeping the laws of Kashrut..He sees Jenny growing and learning performing more and more mitzvahs as she grows...I don't believe in an all or nothing G-d.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

But which rules are laws and which are principles? The ten commandments for instance - laws or principles? And how are we supposed to tell? Is there something in the Bible that spells out which OT rules to follow and which we can ignore?

Perhaps it isn't spelled out in the Bible itself. Maybe we get to choose for ourselves which rules we want to follow (we can call them principles) and which rules we don't (we'll call those laws).

I do not know a lot about Judaic law and I know Jenny says it is constantly changing, but I believe I read there are over 600 Jewish laws that should be followed. If it is constantly changing or in a state of reform, it makes a very gray line to follow. This is what Jesus was talking about to the Pharisees being so bound by the laws.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

Ok,well that counts me out then,because I don't see 2 sets of rules.
Commandments that can be kept are meant to be kept.. Ideally I would keep all of the commandments that can be kept today. I hope to keep more and more as I move along in my journey..One day I hope to keep kosher.
The thing is I don't believe G-d Looks at me and says see Jenny eating that cheeseburger..She is not keeping the laws of Kashut..He sees Jenny growing and learning performing more and more mitzvahs as she grows...I don't believe in an all or nothing G-d.

I do think that is a very accurate picture of G_d!

 

[carrie s]

Ok,well that counts me out then,because I don't see 2 sets of rules.
Commandments that can be kept are meant to be kept.. Ideally I would keep all of the commandments that can be kept today. I hope to keep more and more as I move along in my journey..One day I hope to keep kosher.
The thing is I don't believe G-d Looks at me and says see Jenny eating that cheeseburger..She is not keeping the laws of Kashut..He sees Jenny growing and learning performing more and more mitzvahs as she grows...I don't believe in an all or nothing G-d.

That alot of how it is for Christians too.There are laws we are suppose to keep.We are suppose to try to be more like Christ,but it doesnt happen all at once,it happens over time.