What Would You Do In This Situation?

[brunette8706]

When we were at POFQ last month, we were first in line one morning. We waited about 8 minutes and in that time, quite a few people lined up behind us, including someone on an ECV. When the bus pulled up, they loaded the ECV first, even though they were quite a bit back in the line. They also loaded 2 unrelated parties in wheelchairs. While all this loading was going on, ANOTHER ECV showed up. They also got loaded before any other people, who had by now been standing there a very long time. I was worried that even though we were "first" in line, we wouldn't even get on with all the family members that loaded on with the 2 ECV's and 2 wheelchairs. We eventually got on the bus, but a lot of the people who were in line well before that 2nd ECV did not get to board. Disney did, however, call for another bus so I hope all those people didn't have to wait too much longer...unless more ECV's and wheelchairs showed up after we left.

*
Hi! I have a few questions:

Why did the bus driver stop to pick up the people in the ECV when the bus was full?

Also, why does the ECV granted FIRST in line in front of everyone? Why can't the ECV wait in line with the rest of us? I do not understand that logic.

thanks!
brunette

 

[hershey4]

*
Hi! I have a few questions:

Why did the bus driver stop to pick up the people in the ECV when the bus was full?

Also, why does the ECV granted FIRST in line in front of everyone? Why can't the ECV wait in line with the rest of us? I do not understand that logic.

thanks!
brunette

The bus wasn't full in our case. I was just frustrated because of how loooonnnggg it took to load the 2 ECV's and 2 wheelchairs. Luckily, that was the only time that happened on our trip.

 

[brunette8706]

The bus wasn't full in our case. I was just frustrated because of how loooonnnggg it took to load the 2 ECV's and 2 wheelchairs. Luckily, that was the only time that happened on our trip.

*
Why am I confused, LOL! I thought 10 people had to get off the bus in order for the 2 ECV's to board? Right? Or am I missing something, lol!

 

[hershey4]

*
Why am I confused, LOL! I thought 10 people had to get off the bus in order for the 2 ECV's to board? Right? Or am I missing something, lol!

Only if the bus is full! I guess if the bus is empty or near empty, they load those people first (even if they join the line well after many other people already standing there).

 

[heyitsmejosh]

(May be repetitive since I did not read the entire thread before posting)

If it turned out that the folks with the ECV's had been waiting for bus after bus then the right thing to do would be to divert the nearest empty bus to pick them up, then sending out another bus forthwith to do the route that the diverted bus was intended to run.

Possible but not mentioned in detail: The folks with the ECV's came aboard but were held up in front of the "white safety line" painted on the floor near the front door. The bus driver is not permitted to drive on until everyone has moved aft of said line. In that case there is a stalemate until someone gets off.


Won't work. The space requirements and cost of ramps to roof height would be prohibitive. Now who was the politician who had his dog ride on the roof of his car and the family realized that something was really wrong when the dog's ******** flowed down over the window. Hint: He's now in the limelight.

BTW I would give up a seat but not step outside the bus.

alright then tow lines.. just tie them to the bumper

 

[brunette8706]

We just returned from 6 days at WDW, staying at POR. While there, I witnessed the following situation while on the bus from POR to DHS. How would you have handled it?

We boarded the bus at the north depot in POR and found seats in the back of the bus. The bus then stopped at the east and south depot at POR before going to POFQ to pick up more people. By the time we left the south depot at POR, the bus was packed full -- all seats and even the aisles were full. When we stopped at POFQ, there were two "disabled" people in electric scooters that demanded to get on, even though there was no room for them. I want to reserve my judgement of them, but it seemed to me that these two people were perfectly fine and had the scooters to be able to take advantage of the system at WDW and skip most lines, but I have nothing to base that on other than my observations. They may very well have been disabled, but I seriously doubt it. I understand that the seats near the rear exit fold up to accomodate wheel chairs and electric scooters and there are even signs that say something to the effect of "these seats are given priority to the elderly and disabled". Well, they demanded to get on our bus and that the people already on should have to get off and wait since they were "disabled". When a few people refused to get off, they started claiming that it was a violation of the American with Disabilities Act and they were going to sue.So, should they have been allowed to board just because they were "disabled" and had their electric scooters and kicked several others off, or should they have been forced to stay and wait on an open bus and actually have to wait their turn for once? Would you have willingly given up your seat for them? I was in the back of the bus, but had I been one of the people invovled in the "scuffle", I would have refused. These two ultimately won and got on the bus, kicking off at least 10 people, maybe more. I think they should have been forced to wait for an open bus. But that's just me.

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Hi! Okay, from your launch post you state that the bus was packed. Now, why did the bus driver make the STOP, if there was no room for the 2 ECV's in the first place? That's where I'm confused....

 

[hershey4]

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Hi! Okay, from your launch post you state that the bus was packed. Now, why did the bus driver make the STOP, if there was no room for the 2 ECV's in the first place? That's where I'm confused....

Ok now I get it! You're mixing me up with the OP. I am a different person!

 

[brunette8706]

Ok now I get it! You're mixing me up with the OP. I am a different person!

*
OMGOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM SO SORRY!!! Heck it's late 12 midnight! That's my excuse!

 

[hershey4]

LOL!! Yep, it's midnight for me, too. That's probably why I couldn't figure out the disconnect either. Well, it's off to bed for me!

 

[Keurigirl]

This is why we always have our own car. I HATE riding the Disney busses.

 

[aubriee]

Am I the only one that has a problem with alot of the OP comments? First of all, I go to WDW 4-6 times a year and stay at the PO resorts alot. Going to a park, POFQ is always picked up first. The only time PORS gets picked up first is the DTD bus (plus for MK they each normally have their own buses early in the morning and at night). Next, midday I've never seen those buses even close to packed. We were just at POFQ Feb 4th-11th and were frequently the only ones on the bus if we left midday. There is also the fact that despite the frequent misconception on here, an ECV does not get you to the front of any line (other than getting on the buses first). Most lines at WDW are mainstreamed and ECV's wait in the same line as everyone else for most of the queues. If they are taken out of the main queue, they are taken to another place where they may have to wait even longer than if they were in the main queue. We found this out the hard way several years ago, when we had my elderly mom down there in an ECV. Believe me, despite the common misconception here on the DIS, there is no advantage to using an ECV at WDW. Plus very few people would be willing to pay over $260.00 even if there was, which is what one of those things cost for a week. For two healthy people to do so (when only one would need to be in an ECV for both of them to receive the perceived perks) doesn't make sense. Plus someone else said, how did the supposed cheating, rude ECV drivers even have any contact with the people on the bus? The driver would have had to open the back door and let them in. It would have been his job to deal with the ECV drivers and I'm down there enough to hear the drivers frequently tell ECV drivers that there just is not room for them on the bus and this is just when the ECV slots have people sitting in them and the bus is no where near full. I have seen ECV drivers insist that the driver make people getting in those seats get up, but in every instance the driver says he can ask them, but not make them get up. Some won't even ask and just tell the ECV driver there is not room. If the drivers won't even make those people stand up so an ECV can get on, no way is one going to make people get completely off the bus. Sorry, but I find the statements made by the OP hard to believe. Now I have seen some rude ECV users down there, but the drivers are used to dealing with them every day. No way would they alienate 8-10 other guests by making them get off a bus to accomodate two ECV guests, nor would they just sit there saying nothing and allow the situation to escalate to the point that the OP said. Sorry, I'm thinking troll here. When we were down there with my mom in an ECV, there were lots of times that we had to wait through 2-3 buses because people were sitting in those seats and the driver wouldn't ask them to move (even on half empty buses) or because there were already two ECVs on the bus or ahead of us in line.

But just in case something like this did actually happen: no I would not get off for the rude ECV drivers. The ADA calls for equal access, not priority access.

 

[seashoreCM]

Also not described by the OP, could everyone else in the bus have please move backed* so nobody would have had to get off?

The driver would have had to open the back door and let them in. It would have been his job to deal with the ECV drivers and I'm down there enough to hear the drivers frequently tell ECV drivers that there just is not room for them on the bus and this is just when the ECV slots have people sitting in them and the bus is no where near full. I have seen ECV drivers insist that the driver make people getting in those seats get up, but in every instance the driver says he can ask them, but not make them get up. Some won't even ask and just tell the ECV driver there is not room. If the drivers won't even make those people stand up so an ECV can get on, no way is one going to make people get completely off the bus. Sorry, but I find the statements made by the OP hard to believe. .

Now I remember one time years ago with the old style buses with wheelchair lifts at the back door. THe driver loaded some wheelchairs and had stowed the lift and then another wheelchair guest came up. The driver refused to open up the lift again.

While the driver can't order people out of the seats he could lay down some conditions:
1. The ECV has to be strapped in before I can drive on.
2. I won't put down the ramp again to let the ECV guest off.

Filling all of the wheelchair slots first is a form of "maximum utilization of scarce resources". It is also a form of "separate but equal." It is like (properly) having separate vehicles for "the disabled" come at the same frequency as vehicles for "regular folks." the front half is for "regular" folks and the back half (since the back door is needed for boarding) is for "disabled" folks.

IMHOT (my opinion for today) is that "make", "order" (also "collect" (OT)) are not not verbs in the driver's job description. That is a job for Superman, er, security. (More on the OT, "ask" and "accept" are appropriate verbs.)

* All through the town.

 

[Schmeck]

There's really an easy solution - don't have multiple use spots on the bus. Have them either dedicated to seats or tiedowns, but not both! Have the special floor area marked with signage, so that people know it is a dedicated area for mobility equipment.

 

[goofy4tink]

When we were at POFQ last month, we were first in line one morning. We waited about 8 minutes and in that time, quite a few people lined up behind us, including someone on an ECV. When the bus pulled up, they loaded the ECV first, even though they were quite a bit back in the line. They also loaded 2 unrelated parties in wheelchairs. While all this loading was going on, ANOTHER ECV showed up. They also got loaded before any other people, who had by now been standing there a very long time. I was worried that even though we were "first" in line, we wouldn't even get on with all the family members that loaded on with the 2 ECV's and 2 wheelchairs. We eventually got on the bus, but a lot of the people who were in line well before that 2nd ECV did not get to board. Disney did, however, call for another bus so I hope all those people didn't have to wait too much longer...unless more ECV's and wheelchairs showed up after we left.

And this is the problem with Disney...no consistancy. I have been told, by WDW bus drivers, that they are no longer supposed to board any ECV people if they weren't there, waiting, when the bus pulls up. There should be a spot at every bus stop, where ECVs/wheelchairs are supposed to wait..not in the line. It sure would be nice if once policy is put out there, everyone followed it.

*
Hi! I have a few questions:

Why did the bus driver stop to pick up the people in the ECV when the bus was full?

Also, why does the ECV granted FIRST in line in front of everyone? Why can't the ECV wait in line with the rest of us? I do not understand that logic.

thanks!
brunette

Because ECVs have to be boarded first..it's the law!! Not Disney law, Florida law. The system works until someone comes along who feels entitled. And that isn't just those on ECVs...it has been seen by those with strollers, with elderly parents, with sleeping infants. There are a lot of people out there with the 'you first, right after me' mentality.

 

[Alsobrook]

Because ECVs have to be boarded first..it's the law!! Not Disney law, Florida law. The system works until someone comes along who feels entitled. And that isn't just those on ECVs...it has been seen by those with strollers, with elderly parents, with sleeping infants. There are a lot of people out there with the 'you first, right after me' mentality.

To be clear... that is so long as there is space on the bus. For the benefit of those who haven't read through the entire thread....Disney has no obligation to load ECVs onto a full bus.

 

[Suellen]

A. Why did the bus stop if it was full?

B. You have no way of knowing disabled or not.... period. Unless you personally know them.... how they look, what they are wearing, how they speak.... not indicative of able-ness.

 

[brunette8706]

And this is the problem with Disney...no consistancy. I have been told, by WDW bus drivers, that they are no longer supposed to board any ECV people if they weren't there, waiting, when the bus pulls up. There should be a spot at every bus stop, where ECVs/wheelchairs are supposed to wait..not in the line. It sure would be nice if once policy is put out there, everyone followed it.


Because ECVs have to be boarded first..it's the law!! Not Disney law, Florida law. The system works until someone comes along who feels entitled. And that isn't just those on ECVs...it has been seen by those with strollers, with elderly parents, with sleeping infants. There are a lot of people out there with the 'you first, right after me' mentality.

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Yes, I understand it's the law. But, what I have an issue with is if there is a line of say 10 people have have waited, let's say 15 minutes for a bus, then all the sudden here comes an ECV and 5 of his friends, strolling up to the bus stop just as the bus got there. Why should they be boarded first, and his 5 friends if you have 10 people waiting in line for 15-20 minutes?

Further, I'm still trying to figure out per the OP why the bus driver stopped (when the bus was full) to pick up 2 ECV's, knowing there wasn't any room on the bus?

 

[fortwildernessishome]

A. Why did the bus stop if it was full?

B. You have no way of knowing disabled or not.... period. Unless you personally know them.... how they look, what they are wearing, how they speak.... not indicative of able-ness.

Great post.........there is NO WAY to tell if someone is disabled by looking at them.

We went to Disney in August four weeks after I had been diagnosed with cancer and had a major surgery. I thought that i may need a wheelchair. In the end I didnt. However, if I had needed a wheelchair, I would not have had a visable "disability".

 

[goofy4tink]

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Yes, I understand it's the law. But, what I have an issue with is if there is a line of say 10 people have have waited, let's say 15 minutes for a bus, then all the sudden here comes an ECV and 5 of his friends, strolling up to the bus stop just as the bus got there. Why should they be boarded first, and his 5 friends if you have 10 people waiting in line for 15-20 minutes?

Further, I'm still trying to figure out per the OP why the bus driver stopped (when the bus was full) to pick up 2 ECV's, knowing there wasn't any room on the bus?

Because it's the law. Here's the thing...ECVs have to be boarded first. Otherwise, how are they going to be boarded with people in their way? This is why there is signage over those specific seats...if the bus stops at a resort, and the bus is pretty full, the driver is still obligated to pick board the ECVs..asking those seated in those seats to move. I seldom sit in those seats...I will actually stand before sitting in them. I have seen too many people asked to move.

BUT.....I have a few issues with this whole story. I have never, ever seen any bus, from any resort, even remotely full at this time of day...going to any park. So, to say the bus to DHS was completely full, around 5/6pm, just boggles my mind. AND....the fact that those on the ECVs were able to 'force' others off the bus, and then get on with their ECVs??? I'm sorry, that just seems 'off' somehow. I can't imagine a driver allowing this....there is no way a driver would allow passengers to get off the bus to accomodate ECV riders...not that I have ever seem. I have seen ECV guests passed by when the bus is full...the driver called for another bus, before leaving that bus stop. There are way too many strange things about this 'experience'. I've been to WDW 30+ times...never seen anything remotely similar..and I've seen some pretty 'out there' stuff.

Here's the other thing...ECV riders may be the first to board, but they sit there and wait for everyone to get off, that are getting off, before they can be moved. So....it all equals out. Are there those that try to 'work' the system and use ECVs for their own benefit? Sure there are. But there aren't as many as there used to be...not since Disney changed the ques. There is no more 'front of the line' access for ECVs/wheelchairs. They wait in the lines with everyone else..with a few exceptions.

Again, why did the driver stop at a resort if the bus was full??? Because he has to. There may be guests getting off at that resort. You have no way of knowing..unless the bus was empty when you got on. In all the times I've stayed at POR, there have seldom been more than a few people at the outlying stops....the biggest crowd has always been at the main platform in the front of the resort. And at that time of day (late afternoon) I find it really hard to believe that the bus was filled up. But, that's just me. There may have been some kind of aberration. Doubt it, but maybe.

So, in short..whether or not you all like it...those in ECVs get boarded first. Even before those who have been waiting there for 15 mins. I mean, in all seriousness, what is another 8 mins in the big picture??? You're still getting on that bus. I have seldom seen guests denied bus access due to ECVs being loaded first. I HAVE been pushed and shoved by able bodied women who felt they should get on the bus before me...even though they arrived at the bus stop a good 5 mins after I got there....hard not to notice since there was no one at the stop when I arrived..and the bus had just left for the park. So..yeah, she got an earful about waiting her turn. So, it's not just the guests on ECVs who are rude, obnoxious and inconsiderate.
By the way...that same woman screamed at the bus driver that something had to be done about the long waits for buses....that she had been waiting for the bus for 35 mins!!! Um, no,not even close. She had actually been waiting 10 mins!!! Or else I have no idea how to tell time. Being the Transportation board moderator, I tend tp spend too much time tracking wait times in WDW!!! So, I was really sure exactly how long I had been standing there waiting, and sure about how long she had been there. No one had been waiting for 35 mins!! And I did tell the driver that as I got off!!! That lady overheard me, turned around and gave me such a look!!!!

 

[larryz]

Great post.........there is NO WAY to tell if someone is disabled by looking at them.

Or by reading their posts... although it IS tempting to do so...