What Would You Do In This Situation?

[bedogged]

We just returned from 6 days at WDW, staying at POR. While there, I witnessed the following situation while on the bus from POR to DHS. How would you have handled it?

We boarded the bus at the north depot in POR and found seats in the back of the bus. The bus then stopped at the east and south depot at POR before going to POFQ to pick up more people. By the time we left the south depot at POR, the bus was packed full -- all seats and even the aisles were full. When we stopped at POFQ, there were two "disabled" people in electric scooters that demanded to get on, even though there was no room for them. I want to reserve my judgement of them, but it seemed to me that these two people were perfectly fine and had the scooters to be able to take advantage of the system at WDW and skip most lines, but I have nothing to base that on other than my observations. They may very well have been disabled, but I seriously doubt it. I understand that the seats near the rear exit fold up to accomodate wheel chairs and electric scooters and there are even signs that say something to the effect of "these seats are given priority to the elderly and disabled". Well, they demanded to get on our bus and that the people already on should have to get off and wait since they were "disabled". When a few people refused to get off, they started claiming that it was a violation of the American with Disabilities Act and they were going to sue.

So, should they have been allowed to board just because they were "disabled" and had their electric scooters and kicked several others off, or should they have been forced to stay and wait on an open bus and actually have to wait their turn for once? Wo,uld you have willingly given up your seat for them? I was in the back of the bus, but had I been one of the people invovled in the "scuffle", I would have refused. These two ultimately won and got on the bus, kicking off at least 10 people, maybe more. I think they should have been forced to wait for an open bus. But that's just me.

This is a very odd post. I have never ever seen or heard of anyone forced off a bus for an ECV, especially forced off at another resort. I thought that PQFQ was picked up first and then sometimes went on to POR? It sounds like there may be a lot more to this story, perhaps more than the OP knows?

 

[smitch425]

This is a very odd post. I have never ever seen or heard of anyone forced off a bus for an ECV, especially forced off at another resort. I thought that PQFQ was picked up first and then sometimes went on to POR? It sounds like there may be a lot more to this story, perhaps more than the OP knows?

If you read the follow up post by the OP he details that the bus schedule of his trip was very random in terms of the routes taken throughout his stay.

 

[Alsobrook]

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I'm sure the driver was just not prepared for their rudeness/making a scene/threatening to sue so he just tried to smooth over the situation without really thinking. He certainly could not have been thinking if he made people get off the bus. Normally if the bus is full, they just skip the rest of the stops and head to their destination. Obviously drivers are not required to stop for people in scooters and kick off passengers already on board, so he should have known that this was not the right thing to do.

BTW - the requirement of asking people in priority seating to move only exists if there is sufficient occupancy to allow those people to actually move. If there's no room, the request doesn't even have to be made. Once the request is made, the issue is out of the hands of the driver and the ADA has been complied with....

Yay. Lawyers are fun.

 

[Annadesu]

Disabled individuals are legally protected from discrimination, not legally entitled to boss people around. I have disabled friends who would probably become ashamed if they witnessed that incident. So no, I probably wouldn't have moved for them if they were acting rude.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I'm sure the driver was just not prepared for their rudeness/making a scene/threatening to sue so he just tried to smooth over the situation without really thinking. He certainly could not have been thinking if he made people get off the bus. Normally if the bus is full, they just skip the rest of the stops and head to their destination. Obviously drivers are not required to stop for people in scooters and kick off passengers already on board, so he should have known that this was not the right thing to do.

I wondered about that as well. Anywhere I've ever been that had any kind of shuttle, once it filled up they simply didn't stop for any additional passengers at any additional stops UNLESS someone had requested they stop for someone who wanted OFF the shuttle. Makes no sense to stop under the circumstance described

 

[chicagoshannon]

I wonder if the couple in the scooters had already waited for several buses that had to deny them boarding because they were full. It could be very frustrating having to wait like that.

I probably wouldn't have gotten off but just wanted to point out that maybe they had been waiting for a very long time, hence the rudeness.

The driver shouldn't have even stopped if the bus was full.

 

[DisneyFive]

Wow, what an interestingly bad and akward situation to be in!

Without knowing the exact situation with the two folks on the ECVs, my guess is that those on the ECVs were in the the wrong.

HOWEVER, there may be a situation that made them so demanding (and I can easily see this happening with the bus system POR and POFQ have).

As we know POR and POFQ share multiple bus depots. There is no dedicated bus depot that always has empty buses arriving, and an empty bus is the only way for someone in an ECV to be guaranteed to get on first. My guess is that multiple buses had stopped at their depot and were already too full to load the ECV. After repeated buses not being able to let them on, I can see the folks on the ECVs reacting the way they did and demanding access, even threatening to sue. In the scenario I mention, there is a very good possibility that while they have equal access to the bus, those who are able to walk on and fill in for standing room would in essense have a real tangible advantage/priority over those in the ECV.

Not saying that is what happened, but if it did, I can understand how they could have gotten to the point they did and demanding to get on. (not that it is o.k.)

Dan

 

[DOREEN1779]

I would not have moved. I have visable physical disability and I am always stunned at the occassional ( not the majority ) of people who have a sense of entitlement. Just because you have a disability, you shouldn't act like you have a FastPass in certain situations.
I also agree, the bus shouldn't have stopped.

 

[DisneyFive]

I wonder if the couple in the scooters had already waited for several buses that had to deny them boarding because they were full. It could be very frustrating having to wait like that.

Ah, you beat me to it...

Still no excuse to be rude (not that you are saying otherwise), and they could have said to the driver that they had already waited past a number of buses, and ask if they can call in an empty one (which they can do)

Dan

 

[bedogged]

I wonder if the couple in the scooters had already waited for several buses that had to deny them boarding because they were full. It could be very frustrating having to wait like that.

I probably wouldn't have gotten off but just wanted to point out that maybe they had been waiting for a very long time, hence the rudeness.

The driver shouldn't have even stopped if the bus was full.

This is what I wondered as well. Maybe they were denied boarding of multiple buses because they were full as well. It is possible that the disabled people complained to Transportation and that the bus was ordered to go back and pick them up?

 

[hops&dreams]

The ADA laws/rules/guidelines are in place so that disabled persons will not be at a DISADVANTAGE when compared to an able-bodied person. They are there to level the field and make them equals. Well, in this case, they WERE equals. Any able-bodied person would have had to wait as well. So to them!!! (really, there's no tongue sticking out smiley?)

Tough poop to those people. Maybe they should have gotten to the bus stop earlier if they wanted to get to their destination earlier. Everyone has encountered full busses and had to wait for the next one. Shut up and wait your turn.

Sorry - I'm already hot and bothered about ADA - my boss and the city inspector already have me in a bad mood today over my designs for an intersection. The "questionable" areas have to do with the ADA guidelines, which are not even REQUIREMENTS for this project. They are guidelines! touchy subject with me right now, apparently. Who knew?

ETA: Obviously, I would not have gotten off the bus either. And if they had tried to make me, they sure would have gotten an earful if they caught me in the mood I'm in today! (but I'm not usually this un-pleasant at WDW.)

 

[pumpkinmomma]

What I am not understanding here is why the driver didn't do something, like radio dispatch for a bus for the passengers on the ecv. It was up to the driver to manage the situation. The passengers shouldn't have been bullied or made to get off. The people on the ecv should have taken up the situation with the driver to begin with. Why the driver allowed people to be bullied and guilted into getting off is beyond me.

 

[daraweb]

I don't usually get involved in discussions like this (in fact I think this is my first!) but I was just thinking about this situation. Sounds unusual and not right to say the least. Maybe there is more to it...for example, maybe this was the 3rd bus and the people had complained and this bus came to help with a bad situation? Kind of far-fetched I know.

Also, maybe it has something to do with the fact that the people in the wheelchair seats were not in wheelchairs. I am obviously taking this to an extreme to make a point (and playing devils-advocate) but think about a handicap parking spot. If the person who parks in the sopt is able-bodied, they should move their car, right? Well, maybe the driver was thinking of it like that? I know I try to not use the handicap bathrooms...although there is a great Seinfeld about this very topic

The part that stands out the most to me, is that the drivers of ECV were not uncomfortable kicking others off the bus. SOOOO many other ways to pproblem solve the situation. Seems the people involved were not really thinking clearly.

Not sure what I would have done if directly asked to get off by the bus driver. Seems there needs to be a better system.

 

[Debbie24020]

Firstly if the bus was already overcrowded when it left POR the driver should have headed straight to DHS and radiod transport advising them that he was unable to go to POFQ due to the overcrowding. That would have been the most sensible thing to do. Transport could of then sent an extra bus for guests from POFQ. But if I had been in that situation I would have refused to get off the bus. A queue is a queue, regardless of disability. The fold up seats are there for use by disabled passengers that are on the bus, ie, if you are able bodied stand and make way for a passenger with a disability. These people weren't already on the bus and they had no right in demanding that people got off so that they could get on.

 

[epcotfreak]

It was an uncomfortable situation for everyone involved, including the driver. The two young people in the ECVs were quite hostile and rude. As to what should have happened, I agree that another bus probably should have been called. It's senseless to argue that point because I think we all agree on that. The issue is what actually happened.

Again, it was a very uncomfortable situation for everyone. I cannot speak as to how long those two in the ECVs were waiting nor can I speak as to why the driver stopped when the bus was full or why he chose to stay out of the situation or did not try to defuse it. All I can attest to is what actually occured at that point in time on our bus and it was a very intense and uncomfortable few minutes.

I just wish the several people that ended up caving in and getting off the bus would have stood their ground and refused to get off. But there were several small kids in the group that got off and as I stated before, probably for the sake of preserving the peace, they got off and waited on the next bus.

If I've offended anyone for making the comment that these two young people didn't seem disabled, I sincerely apologize and was not trying to flame anyone and I do know that age has nothing to do with needing an ECV and that many people have legitimate disabilities. However, had you been there, you would know where I'm coming from and it was blatantly obvious to everyone there what was happening.

Other than this situation, we had a blast. I was only bringing up what happened in an attempt to see what other people's reaction to this situation would have been and how they would have handled it.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I wonder if the couple in the scooters had already waited for several buses that had to deny them boarding because they were full. It could be very frustrating having to wait like that.

Most shuttle services have plans in place for stuff like that. If they have to skip stop #2 because they fill up at stop #1, then the next bus through skips stop #1 and goes straight to stop #2. Could be the reason the OP thought the shuttle schedule seemed random.

The driver shouldn't have even stopped if the bus was full.

^^^Still sticking with this one myself

 

[luvthemouse71]

They need to have buses specifically for wheelchairs and scooters. Something like a shuttle.

 

[epcotfreak]

I don't usually get involved in discussions like this (in fact I think this is my first!) but I was just thinking about this situation. Sounds unusual and not right to say the least. Maybe there is more to it...for example, maybe this was the 3rd bus and the people had complained and this bus came to help with a bad situation? Kind of far-fetched I know.

Also, maybe it has something to do with the fact that the people in the wheelchair seats were not in wheelchairs. I am obviously taking this to an extreme to make a point (and playing devils-advocate) but think about a handicap parking spot. If the person who parks in the sopt is able-bodied, they should move their car, right? Well, maybe the driver was thinking of it like that? I know I try to not use the handicap bathrooms...although there is a great Seinfeld about this very topic

The part that stands out the most to me, is that the drivers of ECV were not uncomfortable kicking others off the bus. SOOOO many other ways to pproblem solve the situation. Seems the people involved were not really thinking clearly.

Not sure what I would have done if directly asked to get off by the bus driver. Seems there needs to be a better system.

The driver did not ask the people to get off the bus. He basically stayed out of it. The two people in the ECVs bullied and guilted the others to get off.

 

[graceesmom]

I have only taken 1 WDW trip with someone who needed an ECV,.our July 2010 trip. It was not unusual for us to have to wait for another bus b/c one was already full. Once we had to wait for a 3rd bus - this was when leaving MK back to Beach Club.

So it is possible that more happened with this couple in the ECV's before this bus arrived. I don't understand why the bus even stopped there if it truly was already full.

Regardless, rudeness isn't necessary. Based solely on the limited information provided by the OP, it sounds like there may have been rudeness on both sides -- able bodied passengers claiming the ECV users were just using the sytem and the ECV users themselves.

Despite common misconception, having an ECV does not get guests to the front of the line, allow them to get more rides in than their able bodied counterparts. E.g. you sometimes have to wait for multiple busses before you can load, you can't cut around a crowd standing in the middle of Main Street by hopping on the sidewalk, on some rides you have to wait for a handicap accessible car, it takes longer to get from one attraction to another, and the list could go on and on. It certainly opened my eyes to what limitations having an ECV causes and not the "benefits" that we might think. Disney does a great job at accommodating those with disabilities, but it is still alot easier getting around WDW without having someone in your party with an ECV. I am alot more patient and understanding of those on ECV's now after having travelled with someone who needed one.

 

[goofy4tink]

Just a few thoughts here...
First, it would be very unusual for a bus to DHS to be that full at this time of day. I'm not saying it wasn't, just saying that buses aren't usually 'packed to the gills' full late afternoon/early evening. So, that was very unusual to begin with.
Then....when a bus pulls up to a bus stop, and sees anyone who is in a wheelchair or ECV, they are 'supposed' to board those folks first...as soon as others get off the bus. If the bus is standing room already, then those that are in ECVs aren't going to be loaded. The driver can ask those seated in those specially equipped seats to move in order to accomodate those who 'have' to have those seats...but not if the original 'sitters' have to get off the bus!!! SRO pretty much disallows any ECV boarding...period.
Now...if I were riding an ECV, there is no way I would be sitting around at one of the other bus stops at POR. I would head over to the main platform...much better shot at being boarded there, vs one of the smaller stops.

The driver should have been involved..that's part of the job. My issue??? How the heck did these 'entitled' folks get onto the bus to do all this complaining to begin with? Did they hop off their ECVs and board the bus, telliing those already on the bus that they have to get off? Yeah, like I'm going to move my toockus for that sort of behaviour!!! No one gets to tell other guests to get off a bus.

As for whether or not these people were entitled to use ECVs?? Don't know, don't much care. I have seen many people on ECVs that look like they really don't need 'em. But, I have no idea what their story is...so I don't much pay attention. But, while I understand, and completely agree, that they should have the same advantages able bodied people have, they don't get 'special' treatment. If they arrive at a bus stop and there is no more room on the bus for their equipment, then they have to wait for the next bus....period. I have been on plenty of buses that were SRO, that had to bypass those on ECVs.