What Would You Do In This Situation?

[pbrim]

First of all, not to flame you, but if you are not privy to their entire medical history, you CAN NOT KNOW how disabled they are. I don't use an ECV in most of my everyday life, and I'm sure I look like I don't need one. My co-workers would be supprised to know I ever use one at all. But that's because my job is done behind a desk and my everyday life does not require me to be on my feet for long. I can stand or walk for about 30-45 min at a stretch, less if I plan on doing anything else that day. The only way I could manage WDW is with an ECV. That's also the only way I can manage the State Fair, or going to a museum, or, on some days, going to the mall.

Second, unfortunately handicapped people are still people, which means a certain number of them are going to be total a$$holes. Despite what Hollywood seems to think, we don't all turn into patient, self-efacing saints. I happen to think the porportion of a$$holes to decent people is lower among handicapped people than among the general public, but that may just be prejudice.

Third, I think the major blame here rests on the driver. The people in the ECVs could not have gotten on the bus in the first place without his co-operation. He had to extend the ramp for them, and if the bus was too full for them to safely board, he should never have done so. Then, if they were rude and offensive, no-one would have had to deal with that except him. Frankly, that's part of his job: to enforce safety rules even with people who think the rules don't apply to them. AND he should not have let them bully anyone into vacating the seats. He can ask people to do so (although few do), but he can't demand it, because those seats are "reserved for the handicapped" and, as I said, he can not know if the people sitting there are "handicapped" or not, even if they aren't in a WC/ECV.

 

[TDC Nala]

It's not part of the ADA to require that a number of guests get off an already full bus and wait to free up accommodations for disabled guests on scooters to go first. (I'm going to go the other direction and assume they were disabled.)

The driver apparently accommodated them to prevent them from making a fuss, but he wasn't required to do so by law or anything.

The driver shouldn't have even stopped if the bus was full.

Possibly they needed to let someone else off at that stop. They aren't supposed to skip stops unless they know there's nobody getting off, sometimes they ask if anyone wants to go to the rest of the stops in the circuit.

Wheelchair seats on the buses are not like handicapped parking spots. They are not reserved, meaning there is no rule that says you can't sit in them, but you might have to get up and change seats if someone disabled boards the bus after you. If that was space reserved solely for scooters they woudn't even have the seats there. If the bus is so full there isn't room for the scooter user to board at all, then they need to wait.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Possibly they needed to let someone else off at that stop.

But, if someone got off, wouldn't that have opened up space on the bus? Sounds like there was no room for either of the rude scooter riders.

 

[heyitsmejosh]

disney just needs to add roof racks... that way you can tie only the RUDE scooter drivers to the roof of the buses.. problem solved.

 

[SharonS]

If they were truly rude, then I agree, there is no reason to be hostile or rude.

I do wonder how many of you that have responded have actually had to use a scooter at WDW. I am a healthy individual, and a few years ago broke my foot severely. My WDW trip was very soon after I got the boot off, and still had to be very careful not to get the foot stepped on. In addition, I was by myself, so I knew I couldn't walk all day. As a result, I ended up renting a scooter for that trip. The OP would have assumed that I was perfectly healthy and was using the scooter to 'cheat' the system.

As far as 'cheating' the system, what they said does not even apply anymore. Most lines accomodate wheelchairs. And, when they do pull you from line, like for example on splash Mountain, you go to another area, and still have to wait. I can think of many times such as at Kilimanjaro safari and Spaceship earth, where I actually waited longer. In addition, there are certain rides, such as Pirates, where you cannot take an ECV to the loading dock. You have to either walk, or use a push scooter. Guess what, being alone, this was an issue for me.

Now, in regards to the busses, they can only hold a maximum of 2 at a time. Think about how many 'normal' guests a bus holds...including standing room. Again, there were many times...especially at night when I actually waited a lot longer than the 'normal' guests. If this was the last bus stop, these folks could have been subject to a few busses already having come and been full and they were denied access. So...before judging them....put yourself in their shoes and think about how you would feel if in fact they had been passed over multiple times by full busses or nearly full busses, and 'normal' people might have even been allowed to board.

 

[yankeepenny]

wait a minute-

all rude folks,
folks who dont mind their children,

and.................those who dont have the disney attitude!

TOP of the bus for YOU!!!!!!

their foreheads will be marked by indellible ink in the parks- and there will be patrols of dissers with their markers roaming around catching offenders!

 

[WhateverLolaWants]

I think the driver should have spoken up. Personally, I would have jotted down his name and sent in a comment because it should not be the responsibility of a guest to handle such a situation. I think the driver should have apologized to the guests in the ECVs and radioed whomever to make sure either an empty or near empty bus went immediately to their bus stop OR to have another driver immediately flip the seats up to reserve the spots for those two ECVs. To be completely honest, for the driver to be such a big wuss, I'm shocked he didn't tell the ECVs they couldn't board because he didn't want to take the time to load them. I have traveled with my grandmother who uses a regular wheelchair and we were actually denied entrance to an empty bus because the driver claimed his ramp didn't work (aka he was lazy, because it didn't make sense to us that Disney would send out a defective bus).

 

[raidermatt]

I don't care if they waited for 20 busses, they had no right to yell at other guests and tell them to get off the bus. The guests had nothing to do with any problems the 2 ECV people may or may not have had.

Really, under no circumstances did they even have a right to give the bus driver a bad time. They simply needed to tell him they had waited for X number of busses already and he could have raidoed in to get the situation taken care of.

But of course none of that took place, so it's highly unlikely they had waited for even 1 extra bus. Either way, their behavior was inexcusable. The bus driver made things worse by doing nothing.

So no, I would not have gotten off the bus.

 

[heyitsmejosh]

wait a minute-

all rude folks,
folks who dont mind their children,

and.................those who dont have the disney attitude!

TOP of the bus for YOU!!!!!!

their foreheads will be marked by indellible ink in the parks- and there will be patrols of dissers with their markers roaming around catching offenders!

sounds like a perfect system to me

 

[goofy4tink]

I agree with this 100%. I have no patience for rude behaviour and disrespect towards others, scooter or no scooter. You wait your turn like everyone else.

Im just wondering if having a separate bus for scooters would be the logical solution. They can design it in a way that allows the person to snap themselves in quite quickly.

Often wondered that myself. With the explosion of these scooters, I would think that there could be advances in the transportation of them too.

Not going to happen. There just isn't that big a call. There is already plenty of room. By the same argument...each resort would have it's own bus...that way no one would ever have to wait for 'the next bus', but we all know that isn't going to happen. A bus dedicated to just 'disabled' guests would take forever to get to parks. They would have to stop at the regular stops and then some in addition. There is no way you would ever find Disney putting in buses to accomodate just 10 people..or so.

IMHO, one of the most critical points to this story is why the SRO bus stopped at another depot in the first place. Some people have replied that SRO busses will proceed directly to their destination, but not in my experience! Many, many times I have been on an SRO bus that proceeds to stop again and again for additional passengers.

In this instance, could it be that the driver was going to cram even more additional SRO guests onto the bus, and since he let SRO guests onboard, he had to accomodate the ECVs?

But, if someone got off, wouldn't that have opened up space on the bus? Sounds like there was no room for either of the rude scooter riders.

Because there is no way to know who is getting off where. If the bus originated at, say DHS, and then went to POR/FQ to both drop off and pick up, then what happens to those guests wanting to get off at POFQ if the driver says 'Oh well, bus is too full to make any more stops.'...nope, not happening.

If they were truly rude, then I agree, there is no reason to be hostile or rude.

I do wonder how many of you that have responded have actually had to use a scooter at WDW. I am a healthy individual, and a few years ago broke my foot severely. My WDW trip was very soon after I got the boot off, and still had to be very careful not to get the foot stepped on. In addition, I was by myself, so I knew I couldn't walk all day. As a result, I ended up renting a scooter for that trip. The OP would have assumed that I was perfectly healthy and was using the scooter to 'cheat' the system.

As far as 'cheating' the system, what they said does not even apply anymore. Most lines accomodate wheelchairs. And, when they do pull you from line, like for example on splash Mountain, you go to another area, and still have to wait. I can think of many times such as at Kilimanjaro safari and Spaceship earth, where I actually waited longer. In addition, there are certain rides, such as Pirates, where you cannot take an ECV to the loading dock. You have to either walk, or use a push scooter. Guess what, being alone, this was an issue for me.

Now, in regards to the busses, they can only hold a maximum of 2 at a time. Think about how many 'normal' guests a bus holds...including standing room. Again, there were many times...especially at night when I actually waited a lot longer than the 'normal' guests. If this was the last bus stop, these folks could have been subject to a few busses already having come and been full and they were denied access. So...before judging them....put yourself in their shoes and think about how you would feel if in fact they had been passed over multiple times by full busses or nearly full busses, and 'normal' people might have even been allowed to board.

Actually, the new buses can accomodate three devices. But..there is also new signage at the resort bus stops saying that each ECV guest may board with no more than 6 others in their group. Bus drivers have also told me that they are no longer supposed to sit and wait for ECVs to rush up to the stop...if they are there and waiting, they get boarded. If they are there, but their party isn't, then they get boarded and the party gets on when they get on. If they are just arriving as able bodied guests are being boarded, then they are supposed to wait for the next bus. If an ECV is at, say the Swan, and the bus has just left BW, and there are guests sitting in those 'ECV' seats, then the driver can, and will ask, those guests to please choose alternative seats so as to accomodate the ECV.
But, I hear you about walking a mile in someone else's shoes. I spent a night in WS with a friend who uses an ECV...and she uses it everywhere!! Not just in WDW. It was really eye opening to see how others 'interacted' with her...really pretty awful to witness.

 

[Jonell]

OP, don't assume just because someone doesn't look disabled that they are not. This attitude is why my husband refuses to rent a scooter while at WDW. He has many,many health issues that cause him to not be able to walk the distances required at WDW. Since he is overweight he assumes that people will think he is only just fat and lazy if he rents a scooter. Because of this we can only go to parks at the most 3 hours a day. With that being said, there was no reason for the guest in the scooters to demand a spot on that bus and the bus driver should have handled the situation better.

 

[Schmeck]

So, is the OP going to come back and explain how the two disabled guests on ECVs were even able to make contact with guests on the bus in order to bully and guilt them off? The whole situation does not make sense to me at all.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

I agree that you can never tell by looking at someone what is wrong with them.

On our last trip I had a sudden unexpected injury that caused me to end up having to rent an ECV every day of the trip. Had I not used the ECV we would have had to just cancel the trip and go home.

I am in my 40's, appear healthy, no weight problems (some ppl think ppl rent ECVs because they are fat- don't know if that's true or not) and you couldn't tell by looking at me sitting in the scooter that anything was wrong with me. UNTIL I got up to walk and had to almost crawl and be assisted to walk.

I will tell you this, being in an ECV DOES NOT get you any front of the line privileges at ANY PARK. The ONE TIME I did get special treatment was at Universal Studios when I pulled up to get in line for the Beetlejuice show, the CM unhooked a rope and waved me into the area and told me to go scooter up to this green curtain/the opening to the stadium. The wheelchair and ECV scooters were allowed into the show before anybody else because we had to maneuver into little cut outs in the seats made for wheelchairs and wouldn't have been able to get into those spots if everybody else was already in there. But even then, once I realized I was being let in first, I felt weird about it.

I tried not to pay attention too much to the ppl around me because I knew I would be getting dirty looks or ppl checking me out to see what my disability might be.

We were never let in through the fast pass line or express line or anything like that. And a lot of rides the ECV wouldn't even go into the queue so you had to park it and walk through the line. Or at least I did. One I remember in particular was RnR. The lady asked me if I needed a wheelchair or could walk. I walked. SO I guess they would have wheeled me into the queue if I couldn't walk.

Nobody should ever be rude whether handicapped or not but there are rude ppl every where in life.

I also am curious, and the Op has not come back to answer to it...how did these 2 ppl in the scooters even interact with the ppl on the bus? Did they get off the scooters and board the bus to guilt these ppl into getting off? Because if they were parked at the bus stop, or even pulled the scooter up real close to the bus, there is no way they could have bullied anybody through the side of a bus. Did they lean over and start hollering up into the bus or something?

 

[Greysword]

Someone on the bus should have taken a cell phone picture of the bus' capacity. That way if they did try to sue, then it could be used as evidence for the defense

 

[goofyintoronto]

disney just needs to add roof racks... that way you can tie only the RUDE scooter drivers to the roof of the buses.. problem solved.

wait a minute-

all rude folks,
folks who dont mind their children,

and.................those who dont have the disney attitude!

TOP of the bus for YOU!!!!!!

their foreheads will be marked by indellible ink in the parks- and there will be patrols of dissers with their markers roaming around catching offenders!

OMG im in stitches over here.

 

[shannonstar]

I understand original posters frustration about the bus situation. I saw many situations of entitlement (some ECV, some stroller, some wheelchair, some tour group) that made an already crowded bus even more unpleasant. I think Disney tries its hardest to please everyone and sometimes goes too far one way over the other.

I do agree with others that you can't judge a book by its cover. I am probably going to have extensive knee surgery at the beginning of the summer. We are hoping (esp since we rented DVC points) that I will have made a complete recovery by our Thanksgiving trip. I should hope that I will be in a brace at the most, but I would hope that people won't judge me if I have to ECV, wheelchair, etc.

 

[appleorchard]

This seems like a post deliberately designed to cause an inflammatory reaction. The whole, "gee, they didn't looked handicapped to me", the mentions that they "guilted people off the bus"--how??? and the fact that the buses went to POR and then to POFQ--do they ever do that??? When they share buses, isn't it always the other way around? But even if you take all that away, those seats where the ECVs go clearly state that you might have to give up those seats if needed for an ECV. If any of this is true, I agree people shouldn't have to get off the bus, but the signs do state that they might have to give up their seat. I don't think it's fair or a good policy, but that's what it says.

 

[brunette8706]

Was this the lady on the ECV? WOW!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjSwL-9Bzf8

 

[seashoreCM]

(May be repetitive since I did not read the entire thread before posting)

If it turned out that the folks with the ECV's had been waiting for bus after bus then the right thing to do would be to divert the nearest empty bus to pick them up, then sending out another bus forthwith to do the route that the diverted bus was intended to run.

Possible but not mentioned in detail: The folks with the ECV's came aboard but were held up in front of the "white safety line" painted on the floor near the front door. The bus driver is not permitted to drive on until everyone has moved aft of said line. In that case there is a stalemate until someone gets off. And the person in the ECV can't turn around and might have a hard time backing back out of the bus.

Disney just needs to add roof racks... that way you can tie only the RUDE scooter drivers to the roof of the buses.. problem solved.

Won't work. The space requirements and cost of ramps to roof height would be prohibitive. Now who was the politician who had his dog ride on the roof of his car and the family realized that something was really wrong when the dog's ******** flowed down over the window. Hint: He's now in the limelight.

BTW I would give up a seat but not step outside the bus.

 

[hershey4]

When we were at POFQ last month, we were first in line one morning. We waited about 8 minutes and in that time, quite a few people lined up behind us, including someone on an ECV. When the bus pulled up, they loaded the ECV first, even though they were quite a bit back in the line. They also loaded 2 unrelated parties in wheelchairs. While all this loading was going on, ANOTHER ECV showed up. They also got loaded before any other people, who had by now been standing there a very long time. I was worried that even though we were "first" in line, we wouldn't even get on with all the family members that loaded on with the 2 ECV's and 2 wheelchairs. We eventually got on the bus, but a lot of the people who were in line well before that 2nd ECV did not get to board. Disney did, however, call for another bus so I hope all those people didn't have to wait too much longer...unless more ECV's and wheelchairs showed up after we left.