What would you do if...

[eliza61]

I agree with you. That is terribly sad and quite a pathetic statement about the poster and their "parenting". Even "good" kids from good families and upbringings sometimes end up pregnant. Just as grown women who know better also end up pregnant.

The pp is just compounding the problem, not making it better or fixing anything. Wow.

I have sons (26 and 28) but that said, I would help my daughter through what can only be described as a difficult time. Having a baby at 15 does not mean her life is over. Lots of single/teenage mothers continue their education with the support of their families and quite a few get college degrees. I, for one, would do what I needed to in order to make sure that baby, who never asked to be conceived, and is NOT a MISTAKE, had a loving home and upbringing. DH agrees with everything I've posted also.

Can I ask a question about that. I hear that argument alot and let me say, I didn't know any teen moms and there are none in my family. the two acquitances that I mention knowing have, as I said before been a total disaster for the entire family.

Anyhoo, I've been googling this topic and sorry the statistic I've been reading do not point to a happy ending.

80%of teen moms end up living in poverty.
50% of teen moms end up on welfare within one year of childbirth
close to 25% of them have a second kid within two years of the first, which means at 17 you've got 2 babies in the house.
at age 30, only 1.5% of teen moms get college degrees.

Now, like I said I just googled teen pregnancy statistics but sorry, these are not numbers that say "many teen moms get college degrees". and I know there probably are some that make it through but if these statistic are really sad and do say to me a ruined life.

http://www.teenhelp.com/teen-pregnancy/teen-pregnancy-statistics.html

 

[Colleen27]

Can I ask a question about that. I hear that argument alot and let me say, I didn't know any teen moms and there are none in my family. the two acquitances that I mention knowing have, as I said before been a total disaster for the entire family.

Anyhoo, I've been googling this topic and sorry the statistic I've been reading do not point to a happy ending.

80%of teen moms end up living in poverty.
50% of teen moms end up on welfare within one year of childbirth
close to 25% of them have a second kid within two years of the first, which means at 17 you've got 2 babies in the house.
at age 30, only 1.5% of teen moms get college degrees.

Now, like I said I just googled teen pregnancy statistics but sorry, these are not numbers that say "many teen moms get college degrees". and I know there probably are some that make it through but if these statistic are really sad and do say to me a ruined life.

http://www.teenhelp.com/teen-pregnancy/teen-pregnancy-statistics.html

It is important to take these stats with a grain of salt because the sample is often manipulated. Specifically many of the studies and surveys they are drawn from define teen parent as a *minor* teen, thus limiting the sample to the most vulnerable and most disadvantaged. The teen mothers who have the best outcomes are those who are adult-teens when they give birth and they are excluded from many surveys of outcomes for teenage parents because they're defined as adults rather than teens.

I know quite a few women who had their first child in their teens and went on to do fairly well in life, myself included, but every single one was 18+ and out of high school before having that child. I've yet to meet someone who had a child at 15 or 16 and went on to succeed.

 

[crashbb]

It is important to take these stats with a grain of salt because the sample is often manipulated. Specifically many of the studies and surveys they are drawn from define teen parent as a *minor* teen, thus limiting the sample to the most vulnerable and most disadvantaged. The teen mothers who have the best outcomes are those who are adult-teens when they give birth and they are excluded from many surveys of outcomes for teenage parents because they're defined as adults rather than teens.

I know quite a few women who had their first child in their teens and went on to do fairly well in life, myself included, but every single one was 18+ and out of high school before having that child. I've yet to meet someone who had a child at 15 or 16 and went on to succeed.

Also, how many were living in poverty and/or on welfare before getting pregnant? I have no idea, what before I drew any conclusion from those statistics, I'd need to know that. How many were planning on attending college before they got pregnant? The post implies that these things (poverty, lack of college, etc.) are because of the pregnancy, but they may not be (not saying that they aren't, just that the stats quoted don't prove that they are).

 

[minkydog]

We're not talking about one poor decision, we're talking about a cascade of them, if we go with the 'your 15-year-old is pregnant and wants to keep the baby'

- Having sex without proper protection.
- Not taking post-sex precautions.
- Not getting an abortion.
- Not finding nice adoptive parents.

A cascade of bad decisions. Again, the tossing out is meant to encourage reconsideration of the errant thought process here, because the thought process has resulted in 'I, a 15-year-old who is unable to support myself, should have a child and attempt to support and raise it, though I have no basis for doing so."

Well, there you are. Hadn't seen you in 5-6 pages. I still haven't seen your plan for this hypothetical 15 yr old. Kicking her out of your house without any preparation or assistance to take care of her needs--that's not a plan. What are you going to to, drop her off at the library with her belongings tied up in a bandana on a stick? The only thing your so-called plan is going to cause her to reconsider is whether or not she wants to have any sort of relationship with you, her parent .

 

[Colleen27]

Also, how many were living in poverty and/or on welfare before getting pregnant? I have no idea, what before I drew any conclusion from those statistics, I'd need to know that. How many were planning on attending college before they got pregnant? The post implies that these things (poverty, lack of college, etc.) are because of the pregnancy, but they may not be (not saying that they aren't, just that the stats quoted don't prove that they are).

True, and poverty in particular is strongly correlated with teenage pregnancy.

Also, keep in mind that "college degree" in those stats refers strictly to a bachelors. I possess two associates degrees and, when I was working, held several industry certifications that enabled me to command a very good salary for my age and area, but statistically I'm part of that 98.5% of teen moms that didn't earn a degree. There was a time when I was pretty damned determined to finish my bachelors before my 30th birthday just to be contrary but fortunately good sense prevailed; with two kids, a third on the way, and no plans to re-enter the workforce in the foreseeable future it would have been rather foolhardy to take out student loans just to prove some nameless, faceless someone wrong.

 

[MrsPete]

I don't think either forcing an abortion or forcing a birth is the way to handle it.

In the scenario where the father wants an abortion and mother does not he should be able to sign away his parental rights. He gets no contact but also shares no financial burden.

In the opposite scenario there should be a way for the father (and his insurance) to incur the cost of the pregnancy and delivery and then the mother has the same option of signing away her parental rights, just like the father did. This of course would be a choice and not a mandate and in this scenario if the mother ultimately chose abortion than that is what it will be. It does open up another option in which basically you are opting for adoption by the father. I don't see anything wrong with offering more choices.

Nope. Usually, FireDancer, you're reasonable, but you're dead wrong on this one. Biology made this choice for us, and "more choices" just can't exist.

You men can't really whine. It's not like you lost out in the gene pool lotto. You got some pretty good stuff:

You don't have to sit on public restroom seats to pee.
You can reach stuff on the top shelf.
You don't have to deal with morning sickness, stretch marks, leaky breasts, fear of pain in labor, or c-section scars.
You can be middle aged, a little chunky and sporting a receeding hairline and still be considered good looking.
You still rule the work world.
You go on a diet and two days later are down five pounds.
Your clothes cost less and are easier to fit.
And the one that trumps them all: You don't spend 1/4 of your life from ages 12-55 dealing with menstration.

You got some good stuff from Mother Nature. Guess what . . . this one's ours. We get to decide about the babies inside our own bodies!
Maybe you think it's not a fair trade-off, but it is what it is.


Plus, we already have enough people scamming the welfare system. Imagine how many fathers would "sign away their rights" so that the mom could qualify for more aid . . . and all the time he's living in the same house. Do we really need more ways for people to cheat the system?

Thank you. And for anyone kicking their child out with a baby, you are continuing the problem of prostitution and drugs and all sorts of illegal activity because they have to do what they need to , to survive.

Blatantly untrue. Every year I know a couple students who've been kicked out of their parents' houses for various reasons, and every single one of them ends up couch-surfing at friends' houses -- not turning to prostitution, etc. Most of them reconcile with their parents after a cooling-off period, though once they've left their parents' home once it seems to be easier for them to do it again later. I don't know a single teen who's turned from a good kid to a criminal-in-training in such a situation.

In fact, the most common thing that causes a split this large between teens and parents seems to be drug use. So those kids were already breaking the law.

I guess you have never made a mistake.

There are mistakes, and then there are MISTAKES.

A mistake is forgetting to thaw the chicken, letting the tub overflow, missing your dentist appointment -- yeah, you were wrong to make that choice, but no long-term harm comes of it.
Having unprotected sex (at any age) when you're not prepared to raise a child is a MISTAKE. In fact, with all the diseases out there, pregnancy isn't the worst thing that can happen: unprotected sex really is like Russian Roulette. It's one of those things that a rational, mature person just doesn't do.

Schools can't require a pregnant teen to drop out, but they certainly can make it the more attractive option. For example, the school I attended had a strict "5 absences in a semester and you lose credit" policy. It wasn't targeted at pregnant teens but it certainly did make them think twice about continuing to attend, knowing that they'd lose credit at the very least for the semester in which they delivered and in all probability for the morning sickness semester as well. They can call you in to the counselor's office to talk up the perks of the alternative school, kick you out of any extracurriculars with a leadership element on the grounds of being a bad example, etc. And there are a million other little things that can make the school environment hostile to a pregnant teen. Sure, it might not be entirely above board but how many parents are going to hire a lawyer and fight the school board in the name of their pregnant kid? No student at the school I attended carried a pregnancy to term while attending. That wasn't coincidence.

Ah, no. This is in no way representative of what I've seen in the public school system for the last 20 years.

Pregnant students ARE held to the same attendance requirements as other students prior to delivery. Those who have extraordinary situations are often provided with individualized help; for example, a girl with really awful morning sickness might be dropped from her first period class but allowed to continue with her later-day classes. After delivery, they are have homebound services for 20 class days; they are required to do their schoolwork but are counted "present".

In general, if the girl is a senior, she usually has enough sense to know that she has to do the schoolwork. Seniors sometimes even have it together enough to ask for their work ahead of time, anticipating that they'll have a rough time adjusting after the birth. Younger students usually just ignore their schoolwork, and they usually don't end up getting credit for that semester -- but it's because they don't do the work, not because they're being forced out by an evil regime.

I am surprised that so many women are comfortable giving their grandchild up for adoption.

Comfortable? None of the options available to a pregnant teen are even remotely "comfortable". The question is what's best for the teen and the baby. Kind of like giving kids vaccinations when they're toddlers, kind of like punishing them when they've done wrong . . . what's best for them in the long run isn't always "comfortable".

We're not talking about one poor decision, we're talking about a cascade of them, if we go with the 'your 15-year-old is pregnant and wants to keep the baby'

- Having sex without proper protection.
- Not taking post-sex precautions.
- Not getting an abortion.
- Not finding nice adoptive parents.

I agree that if a 15-year old is having a baby, she's made a cascade of poor decisions, but I'd detail those bad decisions a little differently:

- Choosing to have sex at 15, when no one is ready for the potential fallout.
- Choosing not to use birth control.
- Choosing a boy who doesn't care enough about her/himself to insist upon birth control for their mutual protection.
- Most people do not get pregnant the very first time, so she's probably made these same bad decisions multiple times before she "gets caught".

ONE bad decision alone wouldn't lead to her being pregnant -- it takes multiple bad decisions to get her into this situation.

It is important to take these stats with a grain of salt because the sample is often manipulated. Specifically many of the studies and surveys they are drawn from define teen parent as a *minor* teen, thus limiting the sample to the most vulnerable and most disadvantaged. The teen mothers who have the best outcomes are those who are adult-teens when they give birth and they are excluded from many surveys of outcomes for teenage parents because they're defined as adults rather than teens.

I know quite a few women who had their first child in their teens and went on to do fairly well in life, myself included, but every single one was 18+ and out of high school before having that child. I've yet to meet someone who had a child at 15 or 16 and went on to succeed.

I've read those statistics (or similar) from multiple sources over the years -- I find it hard to believe that so many groups would be out to make teen moms look bad.

In all fairness, I think the statistics say that most teen moms live in poverty for at least a portion of their lives. Doesn't mean their entire lives, but it's pretty certain they'll have a taste of poverty.
Also, saying that they're on welfare during their child's first year doesn't mean they'll stay on it.

But these aren't happy statistics, and they do fit what I've seen in real life. I do agree with you, though, that the age of the mother is paramount in predicting whether she'll overcome this obstacle or not.

Also, how many were living in poverty and/or on welfare before getting pregnant? I have no idea, what before I drew any conclusion from those statistics, I'd need to know that. How many were planning on attending college before they got pregnant? The post implies that these things (poverty, lack of college, etc.) are because of the pregnancy, but they may not be (not saying that they aren't, just that the stats quoted don't prove that they are).

A fair question -- collation isn't cause and effect. I said earlier that I don't see our top students at school walking around with big bellies. Kids from higher socio-economic families tend NOT to get pregnant, whereas teen pregnancies are more common in less educated, less wealthy families.

 

[KiKi Mouse]

Kiss retirement goodbye.

Support my daughter and grandchild to the best of my ability to give that child a decent start in life. Support my daughter so that she can finish school.

 

[RitaZ.]

A fair question -- collation isn't cause and effect. I said earlier that I don't see our top students at school walking around with big bellies. Kids from higher socio-economic families tend NOT to get pregnant, whereas teen pregnancies are more common in less educated, less wealthy families.

Do you mean correlation doesn't imply causation?

 

[leebee]

This is a bit tangential, but... does anyone see any irony at all in allowing a 15 year old the right to decide to keep a baby? As a society we have decided that, until they are 18, children aren't mature enough to make responsible decisions about buying property, getting married, buying lottery tickets or cigarettes (in some states), entering into contracts, and certainly not mature enough to drink alcohol until they are 21, yet they have 100% control over the decision to become a parent and keep and raise a child. NOT that I think I have any kind of solution to the problem or suggest forcing anything, but it just strikes me as ironic that "we" think they ARE mature enough to make a completely life changing decision (for themselves, their families, and the child they are bringing into this world) but not mature enough to be responsible about buying a scratch ticket.

 

[cornflake]

I think she'll fully realize the reality of her situation when her body changes and balloons before her eyes while her 15 year old gf's are still sporting their skinny jeans. Or perhaps when she's pushing her baby out of her ******. Or when she has to sit on an inflatable donut because her backside hurts after delivery. Or when her breasts swell from the incoming breast milk and are hard as a rock. Or how her jeans won't fit anymore after the baby is born. Or getting up several times a night to feed her baby. Or trying to stay awake in class because she was up all night with a colicky newborn. Or having to stay home night after night while her friends go out shopping, movies, parties, etc. because she has a baby to care for. That sounds like reality to me. And it didn't involve throwing her out on her backside to conform to decisions like abortion or adoption.

That reality is after the fact. I'd much rather she face reality before any of that has occurred - when it's much easier to change. When she faces reality at the point you're talking about, then she's got adoption or her life, completely derailed and messed up for god knows how long. I'd prefer she take responsibility for her stupidity way before she got close to that point.

Well, there you are. Hadn't seen you in 5-6 pages. I still haven't seen your plan for this hypothetical 15 yr old. Kicking her out of your house without any preparation or assistance to take care of her needs--that's not a plan. What are you going to to, drop her off at the library with her belongings tied up in a bandana on a stick? The only thing your so-called plan is going to cause her to reconsider is whether or not she wants to have any sort of relationship with you, her parent .

If she is hellbent on actually having and keeping a kid at 15, she can figure out what to do with herself and said kid. She can prepare, it's not like 'you're pregnant? Get out, I'm changing the locks today.' But it is like 'where are you going to live? Where are you going to go to school? What are you going to do with this theoretical child while you're in school? How are you going to afford diapers, etc., etc.?

If she still insists this is her plan well, ok, go live it.

 

[Colleen27]

Ah, no. This is in no way representative of what I've seen in the public school system for the last 20 years.

Pregnant students ARE held to the same attendance requirements as other students prior to delivery. Those who have extraordinary situations are often provided with individualized help; for example, a girl with really awful morning sickness might be dropped from her first period class but allowed to continue with her later-day classes. After delivery, they are have homebound services for 20 class days; they are required to do their schoolwork but are counted "present".

I've seen a lot of variation from place to place in the districts I've been involved in, as a student or parent. Around here it is nothing like where I grew up, and there are support services like you describe as well as some flexibility in the attendance rules (not specifically for pregnancy but the rules are less rigid in general). Where I grew up, even in the late 90s it was very much taboo to be pregnant at school and there were many subtle and not-so-subtle ways the school encouraged pregnant students to transfer to the district's alternative program.

I've read those statistics (or similar) from multiple sources over the years -- I find it hard to believe that so many groups would be out to make teen moms look bad.

In all fairness, I think the statistics say that most teen moms live in poverty for at least a portion of their lives. Doesn't mean their entire lives, but it's pretty certain they'll have a taste of poverty.
Also, saying that they're on welfare during their child's first year doesn't mean they'll stay on it.

But these aren't happy statistics, and they do fit what I've seen in real life. I do agree with you, though, that the age of the mother is paramount in predicting whether she'll overcome this obstacle or not. A fair question -- collation isn't cause and effect. I said earlier that I don't see our top students at school walking around with big bellies. Kids from higher socio-economic families tend NOT to get pregnant, whereas teen pregnancies are more common in less educated, less wealthy families.

I've seen the stats from a lot of outlets but most draw from the same handful of original sources, and I think in most cases it isn't something that is done to make teen parents look bad. I think there is an element of that from some organizations, but I think the bigger issue is simply that legally and socially we've decided that 18 is adulthood. When you include adult-teens in teen parenting stats you skew the outcomes in ways that make the stats far less useful in efforts to prevent teen pregnancy, not because it is an easy path but because there's really no practical comparison between an 19yo college student and a 15yo HS sophomore. And since efforts to prevent teen pregnancy are aimed at younger teens it makes sense to gather data relevant to their position.

When it comes to poverty, I've no doubt most teenage parents are there at some point. That isn't necessarily a negative, though, if it is transitional. Most full time students have below poverty level incomes; however, unless they are married or have a child their parents' income prevents them from being categorized as such.

There is a similar effect at play with welfare - since many health insurance plans don't provide maternity coverage for dependents and virtually none offer the ability to insure a grandchild, most teen parents rely on medicaid at some point. That doesn't mean they receive cash welfare or food stamps, nor does it mean they fall into a pattern of lifelong dependence on the system. While many people don't think of medical-only as being on welfare in the commonly accepted sense, for statistical purposes it is usually counted.

 

[Pigeon]

. I said earlier that I don't see our top students at school walking around with big bellies. Kids from higher socio-economic families tend NOT to get pregnant, whereas teen pregnancies are more common in less educated, less wealthy families.

I don't know if it's fair to say that kids from higher socio-economic groups tend not to get pregnant. Dh has also been teaching high school for 20 years. They do tend not to stay pregnant and they tend not to see raising a child at that age as something they are willing to do.

 

[Desnik]

This has been such an interesting discussion. I never imagined I would get so many responses!

I've talked to the 15 year old a few times since I posted this question. She has made up her mind and there is no changing it. She says she knows how hard it will be but she's ready for the responsibility.

I wanted to add that this girls mom had her when she was 16. The mom has another child who is 5. This 15 year old knows how hard it is to raise a baby with a father who is in & out of their lives.

Anyway the father of the 15 year olds baby is 17 & he is trying to convince her to have an abortion. He is telling her how hard it's going to be for them & they are not ready to be parents. So they are currently fighting. The extended family on our side is flipping out & no one wants her to keep her baby. After speaking to her I told her she has my full support & I will help her in any way I can. She told me she went to the Dr & had a sonogram & that was it, there is no way she is going to give this baby up. As a woman I can totally understand that moment you see the person living inside of you. It isn't an ideal situation but I can't help wanting to help & support her even though I'm getting a lot of crap from my family because of it.

 

[Desnik]

I said earlier that I don't see our top students at school walking around with big bellies. Kids from higher socio-economic families tend NOT to get pregnant, whereas teen pregnancies are more common in less educated, less wealthy families.


Trust me they are getting pregnant, they just don't keep the baby long enough for anyone to see a big belly.

 

[Chelley00]

Now, like I said I just googled teen pregnancy statistics but sorry, these are not numbers that say "many teen moms get college degrees". and I know there probably are some that make it through but if these statistic are really sad and do say to me a ruined life.

I was a teen mom. I have 2 college degrees It took forever to get the first one because my son was little, AND I had another child in the meantime (I did marry the father)and I sacrificed my entire life for those boys, but it can be done.

 

[Fire14]

4 of my 5 nieces and nephews came into this world to teen or barely adult parents. The fathers were/still are in picture. The first one I wanted to strangle my brother and his GF but once I calmed down I supported them with buying clothes/food for child. I don't get along with his mother but I never really did and there is a jealousy factor on her part about me. THe kid is now 16 almost 17. The next one is his sister who I barely knew her first year of life until she came to live with us as their mother "didn't/couldn't put up with" them. K is like my lil sister she acted a lot like me at various ages and "leeched" onto me I couldn't go anywhere without her trying to join me, I was only one she stayed in carseat for. She now lives with her mom who had moved back into area, she sees brother and dad quite regularly. Their mom is one of those that would probably have not gone to college regardless, she did finsh HS thanks to alterantive school/supportive families. My brother may have gone to CC but I doubt the kid factor was tipping point for him not.

Other 2, one which isn't techinally my brothers, are still together, had usual on again off again relationship. The parents have jobs but do get help from state for kids. I have no idea if dad for other kid is around but I believe so ( I doubt he pays CS). These parents were never college bound type either. There was/is drug abuse issues for both parents and at least 1 grandparent.
I know my parents never paid CS but we did buy a lot of stuff for kids so that may have been why. The older kids mom never wanted CS so I'm 98% sure my brother never had to pay any. The younger one I believe had to pay some CS but I know it was never much and it was direct to state not mother, I believe it was to pay for birth/hosp.

 

[mhsjax]

Nope. Usually, FireDancer, you're reasonable, but you're dead wrong on this one. Biology made this choice for us, and "more choices" just can't exist.

You men can't really whine. It's not like you lost out in the gene pool lotto. You got some pretty good stuff:

You don't have to sit on public restroom seats to pee.
You can reach stuff on the top shelf.
You don't have to deal with morning sickness, stretch marks, leaky breasts, fear of pain in labor, or c-section scars.
You can be middle aged, a little chunky and sporting a receeding hairline and still be considered good looking.
You still rule the work world.
You go on a diet and two days later are down five pounds.
Your clothes cost less and are easier to fit.
And the one that trumps them all: You don't spend 1/4 of your life from ages 12-55 dealing with menstration.

You got some good stuff from Mother Nature. Guess what . . . this one's ours. We get to decide about the babies inside our own bodies!
Maybe you think it's not a fair trade-off, but it is what it is.


Plus, we already have enough people scamming the welfare system. Imagine how many fathers would "sign away their rights" so that the mom could qualify for more aid . . . and all the time he's living in the same house. Do we really need more ways for people to cheat the system? Blatantly untrue. Every year I know a couple students who've been kicked out of their parents' houses for various reasons, and every single one of them ends up couch-surfing at friends' houses -- not turning to prostitution, etc. Most of them reconcile with their parents after a cooling-off period, though once they've left their parents' home once it seems to be easier for them to do it again later. I don't know a single teen who's turned from a good kid to a criminal-in-training in such a situation.

In fact, the most common thing that causes a split this large between teens and parents seems to be drug use. So those kids were already breaking the law. There are mistakes, and then there are MISTAKES.

A mistake is forgetting to thaw the chicken, letting the tub overflow, missing your dentist appointment -- yeah, you were wrong to make that choice, but no long-term harm comes of it.
Having unprotected sex (at any age) when you're not prepared to raise a child is a MISTAKE. In fact, with all the diseases out there, pregnancy isn't the worst thing that can happen: unprotected sex really is like Russian Roulette. It's one of those things that a rational, mature person just doesn't do. Ah, no. This is in no way representative of what I've seen in the public school system for the last 20 years.

Pregnant students ARE held to the same attendance requirements as other students prior to delivery. Those who have extraordinary situations are often provided with individualized help; for example, a girl with really awful morning sickness might be dropped from her first period class but allowed to continue with her later-day classes. After delivery, they are have homebound services for 20 class days; they are required to do their schoolwork but are counted "present".

In general, if the girl is a senior, she usually has enough sense to know that she has to do the schoolwork. Seniors sometimes even have it together enough to ask for their work ahead of time, anticipating that they'll have a rough time adjusting after the birth. Younger students usually just ignore their schoolwork, and they usually don't end up getting credit for that semester -- but it's because they don't do the work, not because they're being forced out by an evil regime.Comfortable? None of the options available to a pregnant teen are even remotely "comfortable". The question is what's best for the teen and the baby. Kind of like giving kids vaccinations when they're toddlers, kind of like punishing them when they've done wrong . . . what's best for them in the long run isn't always "comfortable". I agree that if a 15-year old is having a baby, she's made a cascade of poor decisions, but I'd detail those bad decisions a little differently:

- Choosing to have sex at 15, when no one is ready for the potential fallout.
- Choosing not to use birth control.
- Choosing a boy who doesn't care enough about her/himself to insist upon birth control for their mutual protection.
- Most people do not get pregnant the very first time, so she's probably made these same bad decisions multiple times before she "gets caught".

ONE bad decision alone wouldn't lead to her being pregnant -- it takes multiple bad decisions to get her into this situation. I've read those statistics (or similar) from multiple sources over the years -- I find it hard to believe that so many groups would be out to make teen moms look bad.

In all fairness, I think the statistics say that most teen moms live in poverty for at least a portion of their lives. Doesn't mean their entire lives, but it's pretty certain they'll have a taste of poverty.
Also, saying that they're on welfare during their child's first year doesn't mean they'll stay on it.

But these aren't happy statistics, and they do fit what I've seen in real life. I do agree with you, though, that the age of the mother is paramount in predicting whether she'll overcome this obstacle or not. A fair question -- collation isn't cause and effect. I said earlier that I don't see our top students at school walking around with big bellies. Kids from higher socio-economic families tend NOT to get pregnant, whereas teen pregnancies are more common in less educated, less wealthy families.

So you are OK, with Cornflake kicking out her kid? got it. Also not all pregnancies are from unprotected sex. I am prof of that, and my mom was 40 and had 2 teenagers, then along came me, AFTER protected sex.

 

[MrsPete]

Do you mean correlation doesn't imply causation?

Ugh, of course that's what I mean! Proofreading is a good thing!

This is a bit tangential, but... does anyone see any irony at all in allowing a 15 year old the right to decide to keep a baby? As a society we have decided that, until they are 18, children aren't mature enough to make responsible decisions about buying property, getting married, buying lottery tickets or cigarettes (in some states), entering into contracts, and certainly not mature enough to drink alcohol until they are 21, yet they have 100% control over the decision to become a parent and keep and raise a child. NOT that I think I have any kind of solution to the problem or suggest forcing anything, but it just strikes me as ironic that "we" think they ARE mature enough to make a completely life changing decision (for themselves, their families, and the child they are bringing into this world) but not mature enough to be responsible about buying a scratch ticket.

Definitely ironic.

I don't know if it's fair to say that kids from higher socio-economic groups tend not to get pregnant. Dh has also been teaching high school for 20 years. They do tend not to stay pregnant and they tend not to see raising a child at that age as something they are willing to do.

Actually, BOTH are true:

Teens from families with a higher socio-economic status are more likely to use birth control consistantly and correctly; thus, they are LESS LIKELY to get pregnant. They have greater access to birth control, and they are more likely to pay attention to information on how to use it.
AND
Teens from families with a higher socio-economic status, if they do become pregnant, are LESS LIKELY to raise the baby themselves. They're more likely to see themselves giving up college, career, youth; and being a teen mother is less accepted in higher socio-economic groups.

So you are OK, with Cornflake kicking out her kid? got it. Also not all pregnancies are from unprotected sex. I am prof of that, and my mom was 40 and had 2 teenagers, then along came me, AFTER protected sex.

No, you and she are arguing from two extreme standpoints that don't really exist except in lunatic households or far-fetched conversations that bear no resemblance to real life. I'm out of that one. I'll tell you what I actually see among the teens I work with, but that whole discussion is so off-base that I quit reading the "You're such an awful person . . . No, you're such an stupid person" comments.

What I actually believe most strongly is this: Teenaged pregnancy is 100% preventable, and the best course of action is prevention. Once the child exists, no good options exist; at that point, it's all just damage control.

 

[bdcp]

Can I ask a question about that. I hear that argument alot and let me say, I didn't know any teen moms and there are none in my family. the two acquitances that I mention knowing have, as I said before been a total disaster for the entire family.

Anyhoo, I've been googling this topic and sorry the statistic I've been reading do not point to a happy ending.

80%of teen moms end up living in poverty.
50% of teen moms end up on welfare within one year of childbirth
close to 25% of them have a second kid within two years of the first, which means at 17 you've got 2 babies in the house.
at age 30, only 1.5% of teen moms get college degrees.

Now, like I said I just googled teen pregnancy statistics but sorry, these are not numbers that say "many teen moms get college degrees". and I know there probably are some that make it through but if these statistic are really sad and do say to me a ruined life.

http://www.teenhelp.com/teen-pregnancy/teen-pregnancy-statistics.html

You know what they say about statistics right? I do know a couple of teen moms that have finished school, but they had the emotional and financial support from their FAMILY which is how it should be. It's not the baby's fault and my feeling is either the baby needs to be raised by the family or given up for adoption. That baby didn't asked to be conceived, but that doesn't mean it's a "mistake".

 

[bdcp]

This has been such an interesting discussion. I never imagined I would get so many responses!

I've talked to the 15 year old a few times since I posted this question. She has made up her mind and there is no changing it. She says she knows how hard it will be but she's ready for the responsibility.

I wanted to add that this girls mom had her when she was 16. The mom has another child who is 5. This 15 year old knows how hard it is to raise a baby with a father who is in & out of their lives.

Anyway the father of the 15 year olds baby is 17 & he is trying to convince her to have an abortion. He is telling her how hard it's going to be for them & they are not ready to be parents. So they are currently fighting. The extended family on our side is flipping out & no one wants her to keep her baby. After speaking to her I told her she has my full support & I will help her in any way I can. She told me she went to the Dr & had a sonogram & that was it, there is no way she is going to give this baby up. As a woman I can totally understand that moment you see the person living inside of you. It isn't an ideal situation but I can't help wanting to help & support her even though I'm getting a lot of crap from my family because of it.

Good for you. That's exactly what she needs, someone to support and help her. There are a lot of resources for teen moms. Make sure you help her find them.