What would you do if...

[happygirl]

This has been such an interesting discussion. I never imagined I would get so many responses!

I've talked to the 15 year old a few times since I posted this question. She has made up her mind and there is no changing it. She says she knows how hard it will be but she's ready for the responsibility.

I wanted to add that this girls mom had her when she was 16. The mom has another child who is 5. This 15 year old knows how hard it is to raise a baby with a father who is in & out of their lives.

Anyway the father of the 15 year olds baby is 17 & he is trying to convince her to have an abortion. He is telling her how hard it's going to be for them & they are not ready to be parents. So they are currently fighting. The extended family on our side is flipping out & no one wants her to keep her baby. After speaking to her I told her she has my full support & I will help her in any way I can. She told me she went to the Dr & had a sonogram & that was it, there is no way she is going to give this baby up. As a woman I can totally understand that moment you see the person living inside of you. It isn't an ideal situation but I can't help wanting to help & support her even though I'm getting a lot of crap from my family because of it.

I'm glad that someone is standing up for this girl.

 

[KingK12]

The damage is done so all you can really do is give here support to help guide her to what ever decision she ends up making.

 

[minkydog]

This has been such an interesting discussion. I never imagined I would get so many responses!

I've talked to the 15 year old a few times since I posted this question. She has made up her mind and there is no changing it. She says she knows how hard it will be but she's ready for the responsibility.

I wanted to add that this girls mom had her when she was 16. The mom has another child who is 5. This 15 year old knows how hard it is to raise a baby with a father who is in & out of their lives.

Anyway the father of the 15 year olds baby is 17 & he is trying to convince her to have an abortion. He is telling her how hard it's going to be for them & they are not ready to be parents. So they are currently fighting. The extended family on our side is flipping out & no one wants her to keep her baby. After speaking to her I told her she has my full support & I will help her in any way I can. She told me she went to the Dr & had a sonogram & that was it, there is no way she is going to give this baby up. As a woman I can totally understand that moment you see the person living inside of you. It isn't an ideal situation but I can't help wanting to help & support her even though I'm getting a lot of crap from my family because of it.

Thank you for being the voice of reason and support for this young lady. No doubt, she's in for a rough ride. She may say she "knows how hard it is to rais a baby", but trust me. She has NO IDEA. This is going to be the biggest, hardest project she will ever have in her life. The trouble with 15yr olds is that they *are* still children, even though they have adult bodies. Their brains are not adult brains. If they had adult brains, they wouldn't be getting pregnant at 15!

 

[eliza61]

You know what they say about statistics right? I do know a couple of teen moms that have finished school, but they had the emotional and financial support from their FAMILY which is how it should be. It's not the baby's fault and my feeling is either the baby needs to be raised by the family or given up for adoption. That baby didn't asked to be conceived, but that doesn't mean it's a "mistake".

ok so we'll agree to disagree. Sorry but to me Having a baby when you are not emotionally, physically or financially ready is a mistake and hugely irresponsible. The baby did not ask to be conceived and in todays world does not have to be conceived. It's great that you know some success stories, as I said the two situations I know have destroyed the families, w hich tried to support them and now I get the feeling that those kids know exactly how their grandparents feel about them.
yeah, in a perfect world all grandparents and mothers would love them but you know if this was a perfect world we would not have words like child neglect or abuse.

Now I can only speak to my experiences, when I was coming up 15 year olds were definitely not mothers. when I became sexually active, I was old enough to know having akid would have been a huge mistake. period, end of story. so I made sure that I did not have any children and I would not have had a kid. When dh and I had our 2 sons and then custody of my niece, we knew that any more children would be a huge mistake so we both made sure that I didn't get pregnant. He got snipped and I had my tubes tied. very easy.

 

[eliza61]

This has been such an interesting discussion. I never imagined I would get so many responses!

I've talked to the 15 year old a few times since I posted this question. She has made up her mind and there is no changing it. She says she knows how hard it will be but she's ready for the responsibility.

I wanted to add that this girls mom had her when she was 16. The mom has another child who is 5. This 15 year old knows how hard it is to raise a baby with a father who is in & out of their lives.

Anyway the father of the 15 year olds baby is 17 & he is trying to convince her to have an abortion. He is telling her how hard it's going to be for them & they are not ready to be parents. So they are currently fighting. The extended family on our side is flipping out & no one wants her to keep her baby. After speaking to her I told her she has my full support & I will help her in any way I can. She told me she went to the Dr & had a sonogram & that was it, there is no way she is going to give this baby up. As a woman I can totally understand that moment you see the person living inside of you. It isn't an ideal situation but I can't help wanting to help & support her even though I'm getting a lot of crap from my family because of it.

I wish her luck, she's going to need it. It will be interesting to follow up in say 3 years when boyfriend has moved on (very high probability) of that happening and unfortunatley you aren't her parents so she'll continue ot get crap from them. Mom has 5 other kids so I can't imagine she is overjoyed with another one in her house.

Are you going to help her financially also? (serious question, not intending flippancy)

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

No way would i let her have it! Especially if the guy is asking her to get an abortion. Right there it proves he wants nothing to do with her or the kid and honestly it affects his life too and how/ why she isn't considering that proves that she isn't ready to be a parent.


I feel bad for the guy. He clearly doesn't want the responsibility and yes he should have used better protection but really he's going to look like a jerk no matter what.

If it were my daughter -god please not until she 28- it's abortion or the street. You want an adult responsibility then you are now to be treated like an adult. Supporting a bad choice is not good parenting. And let's be honest that child will become the grandparents responsibility so if you wanna "papa don't preach" then find you're own place to live and a job.

 

[bdcp]

No way would i let her have it! Especially if the guy is asking her to get an abortion. Right there it proves he wants nothing to do with her or the kid and honestly it affects his life too and how/ why she isn't considering that proves that she isn't ready to be a parent.


I feel bad for the guy. He clearly doesn't want the responsibility and yes he should have used better protection but really he's going to look like a jerk no matter what.

If it were my daughter -god please not until she 28- it's abortion or the street. You want an adult responsibility then you are now to be treated like an adult. Supporting a bad choice is not good parenting. And let's be honest that child will become the grandparents responsibility so if you wanna "papa don't preach" then find you're own place to live and a job.

A lot of people would say what you wrote above isn't a good "choice" either. So sad to see parents who would kick their child out and not support them.

You apparently are pro choice. She's made her choice, just because it doesn't jive with what YOU want doesn't make it wrong.

I had my boys when I was 23 and 26, does that mean it was a "bad" decision because I hadn't reached your magic age of 28?

 

[luvsJack]

A lot of people would say what you wrote above isn't a good "choice" either. So sad to see parents who would kick their child out and not support them.

You apparently are pro choice. She's made her choice, just because it doesn't jive with what YOU want doesn't make it wrong.

I had my boys when I was 23 and 26, does that mean it was a "bad" decision because I hadn't reached your magic age of 28?

Don't you find it odd that so many people seem to feel that "pro-choice" means THEIR choice and not that of the girl?

 

[cornflake]

Don't you find it odd that so many people seem to feel that "pro-choice" means THEIR choice and not that of the girl?

No, it doesn't. It's entirely the girl's choice. Not a one of us who has expressed this opinion has said anything but that it would be her choice. However, that choice comes with consequences.

For some of us, one of the consequences of choosing to go through with a pregnancy and keep the baby is that the girl will need to find a place to live and way to support the child and herself. She can make that choice.

You can choose to have and keep the baby. You cannot bring the baby here to live, and you must support it yourself (and with whatever support you can get from the father). Make the choice with that knowledge.

 

[Art 1]

No way would i let her have it! Especially if the guy is asking her to get an abortion. Right there it proves he wants nothing to do with her or the kid and honestly it affects his life too and how/ why she isn't considering that proves that she isn't ready to be a parent.


I feel bad for the guy. He clearly doesn't want the responsibility and yes he should have used better protection but really he's going to look like a jerk no matter what.

If it were my daughter -god please not until she 28- it's abortion or the street. You want an adult responsibility then you are now to be treated like an adult. Supporting a bad choice is not good parenting. And let's be honest that child will become the grandparents responsibility so if you wanna "papa don't preach" then find you're own place to live and a job.

I can't fathom a Grandparent advising their daughter to kill their Grandchild, just doesn't make sense to sensible people.

 

[eliza61]

I can't fathom a Grandparent advising their daughter to kill their Grandchild, just doesn't make sense to sensible people.

well i guess I'm a nonsensible person. If my grandchild at 15 came to me pregnant and said she did not want the baby I would first ask why she couldn't speak to her parent (my kid) about it, get them to talk and if she still wanted an abortion, I would help her find a competant doctor who performed abortions.

If I found myself at my age pregnant, no way, no how would I have the baby. I actually think that makes me very sensible because I thought of the consequences and acted accordingly.
Every child should be wanted. I donot believe in "growing" to love a kid or "learning" to love a kid.

I would advise my grandchild to weigh heavily all the outcomes, deal with the reality and not some pie in the sky "oh it will all work out" or "you'll learn to love the child".

And on the way back home, I'd have her at the gyn getting birth control seven different ways, since she's proven that she is sexually active and irresponsible.

 

[luvsJack]

No, it doesn't. It's entirely the girl's choice. Not a one of us who has expressed this opinion has said anything but that it would be her choice. However, that choice comes with consequences.

For some of us, one of the consequences of choosing to go through with a pregnancy and keep the baby is that the girl will need to find a place to live and way to support the child and herself. She can make that choice.

You can choose to have and keep the baby. You cannot bring the baby here to live, and you must support it yourself (and with whatever support you can get from the father). Make the choice with that knowledge.

You can argue that till the cows come home and it doesn't change the fact that you would be manipulating that "choice", that isn't what "pro-choice" is about.

Having a baby, whether the child is put up for adoption or raised by the mother, isn't the ideal situation. But, throwing her out of your home is only adding to the problem.

 

[luvsJack]

well i guess I'm a nonsensible person. If my grandchild at 15 came to me pregnant and said she did not want the baby I would first ask why she couldn't speak to her parent (my kid) about it, get them to talk and if she still wanted an abortion, I would help her find a competant doctor who performed abortions.

If I found myself at my age pregnant, no way, no how would I have the baby. I actually think that makes me very sensible because I thought of the consequences and acted accordingly.
Every child should be wanted. I donot believe in "growing" to love a kid or "learning" to love a kid.

I would advise my grandchild to weigh heavily all the outcomes, deal with the reality and not some pie in the sky "oh it will all work out" or "you'll learn to love the child".

Even if a pregnancy is not planned, the child can still be loved from the moment the mother knows she is pregnant. Doesn't matter her age.

I would hope that any parent would give their dd all of the options regardless of the parent being "pro-choice" or "pro-life" that is the only way it would truly be her choice. And you are right, she should take this choice very seriously and deal with reality. But, if she comes to her parent and asks questions about ANY of the options, I don't think any one of them should be looked at as "the easy way out". None of them will be easy.

We all jump on our own soap boxes of whether we believe in abortion or not and that is what gets in the way of these discussions, but at 15, its very likely that the girl will have her own beliefs in this matter.

I find it very sad, that some would turn their back on their child if she chose to not go against what she believes in because it is not the same as their own.

 

[cornflake]

You can argue that till the cows come home and it doesn't change the fact that you would be manipulating that "choice", that isn't what "pro-choice" is about.

Having a baby, whether the child is put up for adoption or raised by the mother, isn't the ideal situation. But, throwing her out of your home is only adding to the problem.

I really don't understand how you're getting there. Yes, that is what pro choice is about. I'm not manipulating anything. She can make whatever choice she wishes.

She cannot, however, bring a baby here or expect someone else to support it. Neither can a random woman off the street. That doesn't, in any way, impact either of their abilities to choose what to do about being pregnant.

Those are the circumstances they have. Someone else may have entirely other circumstances. Doesn't mean they do or don't have the same choices because of what they think the consequences of those choices will be.

 

[eliza61]

Even if a pregnancy is not planned, the child can still be loved from the moment the mother knows she is pregnant. Doesn't matter her age.

I would hope that any parent would give their dd all of the options regardless of the parent being "pro-choice" or "pro-life" that is the only way it would truly be her choice. And you are right, she should take this choice very seriously and deal with reality. But, if she comes to her parent and asks questions about ANY of the options, I don't think any one of them should be looked at as "the easy way out". None of them will be easy.

We all jump on our own soap boxes of whether we believe in abortion or not and that is what gets in the way of these discussions, but at 15, its very likely that the girl will have her own beliefs in this matter.

I find it very sad, that some would turn their back on their child if she chose to not go against what she believes in because it is not the same as their own.

I think Luv, that people including me confuse "choice" with absolute freedom. I don't believe that I am turning my back on my kid but I also don't believe she can make that choice until she get a true picture of what will happen afterwards.

I get that most late in life pregnancies turn out well, I'm only speaking to me at my age. NO way would the child be wanted or loved.

My husband decided to get a vasectomy based on the information presented to him, one of the real possibilities of that was if he did not get one, sex with me may have come to a grinding halt. He weighed his life, thought about the pros and cons and then made his decision. I don't think I "manipulated" him, he had total choice in the matter. Same thing we me and having my tubes tied.
I chose to go to work, I can totally chose to stop working as long as I recognize that my quality of life will suffer and my husband can chose that he no longer wants to support that decision.
No one is forcing me to go to work, but no one is going to pay my mortgage either so I can't go crying when I find myself homeless nor would I expect anyone to take me in.
A child can believe in whatever she wants, go for it. Once again just realized that those beliefs and choices come with CONSEQUENCES. There is an old saying "if you can't pay the piper, don't dance to the music". You decide to have a baby before you are incapable (at any age )of raising, don't get mad if I'm not raising it or helping to support it.

You want unconditional choices and truthfully I don't think there is such a thing.

Also remember this is all very hypothetical, my kids have graduated from H.S.and are 18 and over, they have more "options", none include moving back home with a baby, but more options.

 

[Freyja]

I was that 15 year old girl. My mom first demanded I had an abortion. Dad didn't say anything to start with. When they understood that I was going to keep the baby they decided to support me and DH. It was out of the question though that I would keep living in their house. First of all DH and I didn't want to and second my parents didn't believe that would be the best start for our little family. We all felt we would be best off living alone but w. the support of my parents.
It was decided that as long as we stayed in school and finished high school they would support us financially by helping us pay for our rent. The rest was up to us, so DH worked at night to pay for insurance, utilities and food on the table.
After we had both finished high school we moved overseas with both our children (we had our second child 2 years after our firstborn) and went to University where we both finished our graduate degrees.
We will be forever grateful for the support we received and if any of our 5 children should come home and tell us they were in the same situation we would want to help them the best we could!

 

[luvsJack]

I think Luv, that people including me confuse "choice" with absolute freedom. I don't believe that I am turning my back on my kid but I also don't believe she can make that choice until she get a true picture of what will happen afterwards.

I get that most late in life pregnancies turn out well, I'm only speaking to me at my age. NO way would the child be wanted or loved.

My husband decided to get a vasectomy based on the information presented to him, one of the real possibilities of that was if he did not get one, sex with me may have come to a grinding halt. He weighed his life, thought about the pros and cons and then made his decision. I don't think I "manipulated" him, he had total choice in the matter. Same thing we me and having my tubes tied.
I chose to go to work, I can totally chose to stop working as long as I recognize that my quality of life will suffer and my husband can chose that he no longer wants to support that decision.
No one is forcing me to go to work, but no one is going to pay my mortgage either so I can't go crying when I find myself homeless nor would I expect anyone to take me in.
A child can believe in whatever she wants, go for it. Once again just realized that those beliefs and choices come with CONSEQUENCES. There is an old saying "if you can't pay the piper, don't dance to the music". You decide to have a baby before you are incapable (at any age )of raising, don't get mad if I'm not raising it or helping to support it.

You want unconditional choices and truthfully I don't think there is such a thing.

Also remember this is all very hypothetical, my kids have graduated from H.S.and are 18 and over, they have more "options", none include moving back home with a baby, but more options.

Oh, I certainly agree that there should be a true picture in the girl's mind of what the end result of any choice would be.

But, saying to my 15 year old, if you choose "this" you must find a place to live is = turning my back on her for her choice, imo. And is insuring that her life will be lived in poverty and that she and the baby (if she chooses to keep the child) will certainly become one of the statistics.

The best choice a 15 year old can make is to make sure a pregnancy does not happen in the first place and I hope and pray THAT is the choice my dd will continue to make.

You mention an adult child moving home with a baby. I am in the process of making that very choice. My adult ds is married and has two children. His little family may very well be moving in with us in the next few weeks. They are having financial issues and need to be given an opportunity to get on their feet. Of course this will come with ground rules, time limits, etc. There is a plan in place of the steps that will need to be taken to make changes to their situation and those steps will lead to them moving back out again. I can't imagine turning my back and saying "nope, I don't care how hard it is or how you have to live, you can't move home".

 

[kaytieeldr]

Her hypothetical child is 1) my grandchild, 2) a member of the wider family, and 3) not "her" child anymore once they have been adopted out. Choosing to put a child up for adoption against the wishes of family members who are decent, non-abusive parents, actively preventing them from adopting the child so they could remain within the family, I have a hard time believing that that's not spiteful. As for my presumed spite, that's not the emotion in play, it is hurt and a feeling of complete betrayal. She would have done to my grandchild what my father attempted to do to me, the only way we could continue a relationship from there is if we managed to correct the mistake.

Regarding the first bolded segment: rightly or wrongly, it's entirely possible any woman of any age (but especially a teenager) doesn't view the family members the way they see themselves. She may feel letting someone with whom she's not connected is the best option for the baby.

On the second bolded section, it's too bad the quoted poster thinks unrelated adoption shows spite for the pregnant woman's relatives. There are thousands of people who try/wait for years to adopt a baby. They submit to all kinds of invasive and intensive investigation to make sire they'll be good parents.

How is it spiteful for a pregnant woman to arrange to have the child's she bears loved and raised in one of these families?

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

There are outcomes and consequences to ever choice we make as human beings. I could sleep well knowing that my child was well informed of the outcome of the choice to keep a unplanned child. We aren't discussing a 21 heck 17 year old here. At 15 you can't legally work. Health insurance? Nothing and when you do get your GED you more than likely will only be able to get a crappy paying job.

Yes it is her choice but it is my choice to/how to support her. My good friend had an abortion when we were juniors in college. She would have had a crap life with a crap guy had she continued. Now she is a successful career woman with two kids, three homes and numerous cars and a husband that is great and loves her.

I strongly believe if a spirit or soul is meant to be a part of your family it will come to you. Sometimes the time isn't right. At 15 it's not right. It's a very big mistake and setting this girl up for a very hard life. And for what reason really? She's 15 let her hate you she will thank you later when's she's graduated college.

 

[AntePrincess]

Ok, ok, I'm back. I guess you can't properly YAGE unless you do it more than once.

Having reflected on everything, I can say a PP nailed it on the head when they figured my response as a kneejerk reaction. I guess we now know how I'll act out the initial panic. DH and I figure what we'd do is reassure our kid, bite our tongues, and make appropriate doctors' appointments. We'd rather our 15yo did not raise a child and we'd rather not adopt out a relative, but I'm pretty sure I can get over that to support my daughter and be there for her emotionally as well as financially and pragmatically. We'd offer right upfront to adopt and raise the grandkid ourselves, making whatever allowances if she was adamant on keeping and raising the baby herself (such as being more involved in the early years while she's still in school and stepping back later, no matter how hard that is, which requires her to really be there and present as a parent during those early years).

If she did decide she wanted to adopt the child out, I would be upfront with the fact that I'd really prefer she didn't, I'd sign us up for family counseling because I know if we didn't need it before the pregnancy we're sure going to need it as she and I butt heads over adoption, and I'd pursue my legal options for adoption and custody.

Regarding the first bolded segment: rightly or wrongly, it's entirely possible any woman of any age (but especially a teenager) doesn't view the family members the way they see themselves. She may feel letting someone with whom she's not connected is the best option for the baby.

On the second bolded section, it's too bad the quoted poster thinks unrelated adoption shows spite for the pregnant woman's relatives. There are thousands of people who try/wait for years to adopt a baby. They submit to all kinds of invasive and intensive investigation to make sire they'll be good parents.

How is it spiteful for a pregnant woman to arrange to have the child's she bears loved and raised in one of these families?

Just letting you know I came back and posted later in the thread when I'd thought things out more.