What were these teens thinking?!

[Sandy V.]

My point, which you and SandyV choose to ignore, is that you are picking and choosing which laws to enforce, thereby undercutting your argument that laws are laws and we must blindly follow them.

That's not what I said or meant, but . . .

So since the state of Michigan doesn't enforce ALL of its laws, it should enforce NONE of its laws? After all, to do otherwise would be, "hypocritical". Hogwash.

Respectfully speaking, apparently the people have Michigan have determined that it's more important to go after people who violate the alcohol laws than unmarried men and women who have consensual sex and live together. Otherwise, there would be a whole lot of people beating down the Statehouse door in Lansing to make sure such fornicators were prosecuted. I just don't see why you beat this dead horse. It's irrelevant.

And I'm like you . . . never been in a lick of trouble in my life. But I would far rather see the alcohol laws enforced, especially when my teenage children are driving home late on Friday and Saturday nights. Doesn't matter that these girls here weren't driving in this instance. Maybe NEXT time they would be. Sure wouldn't make me feel any better.

My kids have tasted wine, beer, and various mixed drinks at our home with our consent. But if they choose to do such things outside of our home, they have to live with the consequences. I will not go on a "Mommy Crusade" to put my children above the law or whatever discipline would follow.

That's the most difficult part about having teenagers-actually giving them the skills to be ADULTS.

 

[jodifla]

That's not what I said or meant, but . . .

So since the state of Michigan doesn't enforce ALL of its laws, it should enforce NONE of its laws? After all, to do otherwise would be, "hypocritical". Hogwash.

Respectfully speaking, apparently the people have Michigan have determined that it's more important to go after people who violate the alcohol laws than unmarried men and women who have consensual sex and live together. Otherwise, there would be a whole lot of people beating down the Statehouse door to make sure such fornicators were prosecuted. I just don't see why you beat this dead horse. It's irrelevant.

And I'm like you . . . never been in a lick of trouble in my life. But I would far rather see the alcohol laws enforced, especially when my teenage children are driving home late on Friday and Saturday nights. Doesn't matter that these girls here weren't driving in this instance. Maybe NEXT time they would be. Sure wouldn't make me feel any better.

My kids have tasted wine, beer, and various mixed drinks at our home with our consent. But if they choose to do such things outside of our home, they have to live with the consequences. I will not go on a "Mommy Crusade" to put my children above the law or whatever discipline would follow.

That's the most difficult part about having teenagers-actually giving them the skills to be ADULTS.

Baltimore Sun
Locked Up in Land of the Free
Inmates: The United States has surpassed Russia as the nation with the highest percentage of citizens behind bars.

by Scott Shane

With a record-setting 2 million people locked up in American jails and prisons, the United States has overtaken Russia and has a higher percentage of its citizens behind bars than any other country.

Today the United States imprisons at a far greater rate not only than other developed Western nations do, but also than impoverished and authoritarian countries do

Those are the latest dreary milestones resulting from a two-decade imprisonment boom that experts say has created ballooning costs and stark racial inequities.

Overseas, U.S. imprisonment policy is widely seen as a dark blot on a society that prides itself on valuing liberty and just went to war to overturn Saddam Hussein's despotic rule in Iraq.

 

[tarmand]

How is this at all the same thing? Lots of kids drink. Very few drink themselves to death.

The girls weren't drunk at the prom, they'd had some sips of whiskey.

Who are you to say that what that judge did doesn't keep them from ending up like Corey?

 

[Rock'n Robin]

Let me address some of these things from a HS teacher standpoint. First of all, the school is completely within its rights to restrict these kids from sports teams and honor recognition, as long as the consequences for drinking at school functions are outlined in the school handbook (and an alum posting earlier indicated the rules against drinking were not a secret). I am NOT talking about underage drinking so Jodifla don't jump all over me. I am talking about breaking SCHOOL RULES AND REGULATIONS. Each school has its rules and consequences for breaking the rules. There were 9 kids drinking--yes these "little angels" just "sipped", but they admitted they realized 4 others had been drinking when they got into the limo.
In the district where I teach, the fact that the soccer player even got into the limo after realizing they had been drinking would have cost her a 3 game suspension, even if she didn't drink. Our athletes sign an "athletic code of conduct". It's even harsher where I live--it is "co-curricular", meaning it is not limited to athletes. If a student attends a drinking party and does not leave, even if they do not drink, they can get the same punishment. This includes actors, band members, chess club, and sports. If someone reports that they were there, they will be questioned by the athletic director or administrators. The norm where I work is about 10 minutes--that is what they assume to be the time (max) it takes a student to realize "Hey, there is drinking here, I'd better get out of here". Is it puritan? I bet Jodifla thinks so. But the fact is schools can make rules and kids have to follow them!
You know, the drinking age was 18 when I went to school too, and kids drank. But no one was stupid enough to do it at prom or graduation. And it can NOT be assumed that "everyone" drank and now has a normal life(the "I did it and I'm a great citizen and life is good" argument). There is at least one guy in my graduating class (1981) with a liver that is completely shot--others who have never really grown up and still party all the time at age 42. Some people never know they have a prediliction for alcohol abuse until it is too late either.
So that is the school viewpoint. As for the law viewpoint, the kids broke their probation rules by drinking. Most people who violate probation are punished in some fashion regardless of the crime.
It does not matter if you AGREE with the rules or not--if you break them, face the consequences if you get caught!
Robin M.

 

[disykat]

I don't think kids are losers if they make mistakes - the problem is when they can't own up to them and take the consequences.

 

[taeja71]

too furious to post. Wish I didn't read the article.

 

[Rei Ayanami]

Gotta love silver spoons.

 

[jodifla]

Let me address some of these things from a HS teacher standpoint. First of all, the school is completely within its rights to restrict these kids from sports teams and honor recognition, as long as the consequences for drinking at school functions are outlined in the school handbook (and an alum posting earlier indicated the rules against drinking were not a secret). I am NOT talking about underage drinking so Jodifla don't jump all over me. I am talking about breaking SCHOOL RULES AND REGULATIONS. Each school has its rules and consequences for breaking the rules. There were 9 kids drinking--yes these "little angels" just "sipped", but they admitted they realized 4 others had been drinking when they got into the limo.
In the district where I teach, the fact that the soccer player even got into the limo after realizing they had been drinking would have cost her a 3 game suspension, even if she didn't drink. Our athletes sign an "athletic code of conduct". It's even harsher where I live--it is "co-curricular", meaning it is not limited to athletes. If a student attends a drinking party and does not leave, even if they do not drink, they can get the same punishment. This includes actors, band members, chess club, and sports. If someone reports that they were there, they will be questioned by the athletic director or administrators. The norm where I work is about 10 minutes--that is what they assume to be the time (max) it takes a student to realize "Hey, there is drinking here, I'd better get out of here". Is it puritan? I bet Jodifla thinks so. But the fact is schools can make rules and kids have to follow them!
You know, the drinking age was 18 when I went to school too, and kids drank. But no one was stupid enough to do it at prom or graduation. And it can NOT be assumed that "everyone" drank and now has a normal life(the "I did it and I'm a great citizen and life is good" argument). There is at least one guy in my graduating class (1981) with a liver that is completely shot--others who have never really grown up and still party all the time at age 42. Some people never know they have a prediliction for alcohol abuse until it is too late either.
So that is the school viewpoint. As for the law viewpoint, the kids broke their probation rules by drinking. Most people who violate probation are punished in some fashion regardless of the crime.
It does not matter if you AGREE with the rules or not--if you break them, face the consequences if you get caught!
Robin M.

I stand by what I think. The laws are Draconian, and probably broken by kids at your school on a weekly basis, making them fairly useless.

And you're right. Institutions can pass rules, and try to force people into their narrow way of behavior. Many break the rules, a few get caught. And all it teaches kids is disrepect for authority, when they sense that the laws are just political tools so some elected officials can show "they care about kids."

I'm a person who actually works pretty hard to follow the laws. But when I see prom kids getting thrown in jail for things we did on a regular basis, all I can think about is the hypocrisy.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

Please stop saying things "we" did on a regular basis. I did not drink in high school and rarely drink now.
Robin M.

 

[jodifla]

Please stop saying things "we" did on a regular basis. I did not drink in high school and rarely drink now.
Robin M.

I wasn't referring to you specifically, of course.

 

[MrsKreamer]

What I would like to know is if these were your kids and instead of getting caught by the school, they went on to an after prom party and died of alchol poisoning...would you have jumped up and down screaming why didn't anyone notice my kid drinking? I mean come on...you can't tell me that these parents aren't the same one that cry "law suit" when one of their children(and yes at their age they are still children) get hurt or killed.

I am glad they got a harsh punishment.

FWIW I will(like my mother) teach my son about drinking responsibly. In my state minors can drink in their own home under parental supervision. If I ever catch him drinking somewhere else, driving, or showing up somewhere drunk....well let's say he will beg to be thrown in lockup.

 

[jodifla]

What I would like to know is if these were your kids and instead of getting caught by the school, they went on to an after prom party and died of alchol poisoning...would you have jumped up and down screaming why didn't anyone notice my kid drinking? I mean come on...you can't tell me that these parents aren't the same one that cry "law suit" when one of their children(and yes at their age they are still children) get hurt or killed.

I am glad they got a harsh punishment.

FWIW I will(like my mother) teach my son about drinking responsibly. In my state minors can drink in their own home under parental supervision. If I ever catch him drinking somewhere else, driving, or showing up somewhere drunk....well let's say he will beg to be thrown in lockup.

I guess you're talking about me....and I've never sued anyone for anything.

I can see calling the parents,I suppose, in this litigous day and age. I can't see taking their graduation privileges, kicking them out of NHS, jail, etc.

And you don't die from alcohol poisoning with .02 alcohol level. The kids were in the prom eating dinner when they were hauled out by the gestop...I mean school officials.

 

[Pinnie]

There is ONE word for those parents:

ENABLERS

pinnie

 

[KarenAylwood]

I haven't read the entire thread as I don't have time- but would like to reply to parts of it, including the original posted article.

Being a 23 year old fresh out of college (with friends still in college), I can totally believe the article and the girls in it. I laughed when I read it actually. I could see people my age (well, a little younger) doing the same thing that these girls did. Well, look- proves that if you put something on the internet it's public domain!

I am not condoning what the girls did- I'm just saying I'm not surprised at all. Not surprised at the drinking before prom or the website. When I had my senior prom, I remember being appauled that there were a few token students who had obviously gotten drunk before prom

But that doesn't mean that we didn't drink after prom. We broke the rules, yes, not to the extent that these girls did, but broke the rules all the same. I think that they were stupid to put up the website and naiive to think no one of authority would find it.

The best post I've read on here was by minkydog:

"Parents, it's the hardest thing you'll ever do, but let your kids take their own falls. It's a life lesson they need to straighten their backbones."

I think the girls made a mistake (well, a few mistakes) and received the proper punishment. They won't do something like this again!! And after re-reading this before posting I realized it may look like I'm condoning the drinking but not the getting caught. I am merely making the point that underage drinking is very common (not right, common) and they obviously didn't learn their lesson the first time, so a second time was called for. It's a good example for those to come and I don't think their punishment was severe. They should have learned the first time the mistake was made!

I guess it comes from my young age, but I'm not shocked at all to read about this.

 

[disney junky]

I guess you're talking about me....and I've never sued anyone for anything.

I can see calling the parents,I suppose, in this litigous day and age. I can't see taking their graduation privileges, kicking them out of NHS, jail, etc.

And you don't die from alcohol poisoning with .02 alcohol level. The kids were in the prom eating dinner when they were hauled out by the gestop...I mean school officials.

So in your world, the gestap...I mean school officials (that's really funny-not) are supposed to ignore obvious violations of school policy and violations of state law at a school sponsored function. No member of a sports team, honor society or other organization should be held to a standard as long as no one gets hurt. Where do we draw the line? Lots of kids smoke pot, so should we allow that too? Ultimately, who do you think is an authority worth respecting?

 

[LoveWDW]

I agree with the poster who said that we have to face the consequences of our actions. My own son always blamed everyone but himself for the bad decisions he made. Finally he matured enough to realize the person bringing bad consequences on him was himself.

 

[Nancy]

Other kids were drunk, not these kids.

And living together is ILLEGAL in Michigan. I assume, then, that you support jail for this, too?

Just got back from work....so I am finally responding to this. I personally don't care who was or wasn't drunk...drinking under age is against the law. Living together is illegal in Michigan...wrong law if they are consenting ADULTS...time to change the law. If a judge would actually have the kahunas to put a couple to trial for that "crime" and they got sentanced to jail, then they do the time. There are outdated laws in all the states, that doesn't mean that they are all going to end up in court...that comparison is way off.

I also was around when the drinking age was legally 18, so a lot of high school kids could be drunk at the prom. It was great hearing them all talk about how they puked in the john...they had a good time too. (I did not do the prom, thought they were stupid). Laws are much stricter now then they were back then. Laws for driving intoxicated were more lenient. Things change. I watched 2 people I loved die from alcohol maybe that's why I have such a strong feeling against letting kids do it because "that is what kids do"

 

[EltonJohn]

Story from today's local paper....I am in shock. What were these girls thinking?!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006601270321

Who says that the teans were thinking?

I think that the judge gave them a rather light sentence, and was being merciful. Their parents should back the judge and the court up instead of complaining that their daughters got jail time Citizens must show respect for the court and U.S. legal system.

 

[Geoff_M]

I have to agree with this. No doubt the judge was acting on emotion, not just enforcing the law. Had it been about a different subject people would feel differently about the judge acting on emotion.

On the contrary, the teens violated a clear directive from the judge that was part of their sentencing. Emotion, or no emotion, do that and you can expect to spend some token time in a slammer for Contempt of Court. Judges have very little sense of humor when people go out and do the exact opposite of what they were directed to do. They're funny that way. They know that a little jail time is a very effective tool in making sure there's clarity in what the judge intended and tends to get the full attention of the people that didn't quite "get it" the first time around.

 

[jodifla]

So in your world, the gestap...I mean school officials (that's really funny-not) are supposed to ignore obvious violations of school policy and violations of state law at a school sponsored function. No member of a sports team, honor society or other organization should be held to a standard as long as no one gets hurt. Where do we draw the line? Lots of kids smoke pot, so should we allow that too? Ultimately, who do you think is an authority worth respecting?

How about not over-reacting, which is where all this "zero tolerance" stuff leads?

Call the parents, and have them pick up their kids and take them home since they broke the rules about the prom. End of story. No heavyhanded taking of all their graduation rites, their NHS rank, etc.