What were these teens thinking?!

[cats7494]

Good for the judge!
The parents were ridiculous, imo - why would they even try to defend their daughter's behavior?

 

[buddy&wooz]

Here's a view from the other side I'm a parent, and I think the judge was totally out of line. It's his vendetta, his crusade.

I do agree that telling the girls to stay away from alcohol was over the top, and probably an impossible requirement. If he got upset because he heard that one of the girls was at a party and maybe had a beer- I'd agree his reaction would be wrong. But these girls asked for more trouble, they were completely out of line with what they did with the web site.

 

[jodifla]

The kids did what kids do - and they got caught. And because it also happens to be illegal, they got punished. The judge did what judges do. I think that about sums it up.

Lots of things are illegal...bet you'll break the law at least once today without even knowing it.

 

[Am_I_There_Yet]

I have to admit, I'm not shocked at all. I have a daughter in college and I've been shocked at the images that I've seen on Facebook and on myspace.com of underage drinking.

These same kids were drinking in high school too.

Sounds like a bunch of normal (at least from what I've seen) kids, that did something incredibly stupid on the internet and got caught.

*Note: I do not condone underage drinking.

 

[Sandy V.]

Here's a view from the other side: I'm a parent, and I think the judge was totally out of line. It's his vendetta, his crusade.

The initial punishment is totally out of line with the crime. That does not make teens respect authority. The kids, who weren't misbehaving or drunk, were pulled out of their prom dinner. Then their graduation rights were threatened....all because they did what kids do. They experimented. They weren't driving, and they weren't a threat to anyone.

Now their reaction on the Web site wasn't very well thought out, certainly. But I can see it being a reaction to the overly harsh punishment.

All the previous posters should think about this: Lots of things YOU do every day are "crimes." Living with someone before marriage, in Michigan, that's a crime. It's not enforced, but the laws are on the books. The list goes on and on.

I have to respectfully disagree. I'm also a parent. I have an 18-year old DD and an almost 16-old DS. If either one of them pulled this stupid stunt, I would be supporting the judge. The punishment fit the crime perfectly.

For a former high school honor student to take the TIME to thumb her nose at the legal system and create this obscene website took an incredible amount of nerve and arrogance. What a complete waste of energy. And for what?

I also respectfully disagree with the "everyone does it" mentality; thus these kids shouldn't have been punished for experimenting. Attending prom and graduation ceremonies are privileges, not matter of right. A school district is within their rights to prohibit attendance if certain rules aren't followed-rules designed for the safety of everyone. Our high school also has "screeners" at the prom to watch for signs of alcohol consumption, etc. If my DD is stupid enough to do this at her prom this spring, then she deserves to get kicked out.

One of the things that it seems (to me) to be lacking in many people nowadays is the concept of shame or embarassment when they do something wrong. Instead, they're the victim, filled with righteous indignation towards an authority figure who has the guts to give them "consequences". Sad.

 

[dngrmys]

I have to respectfully disagree. I'm also a parent. I have an 18-year old DD and an almost 16-old DS. If either one of them pulled this stupid stunt, I would be supporting the judge. The punishment fit the crime perfectly.

For a former high school honor student to take the TIME to thumb her nose at the legal system and create this obscene website took an incredible amount of nerve and arrogance. What a complete waste of energy. And for what?

I also respectfully disagree with the "everyone does it" mentality; thus these kids shouldn't have been punished for experimenting. Attending prom and graduation ceremonies are privileges, not matter of right. A school district is within their rights to prohibit attendance if certain rules aren't followed-rules designed for the safety of everyone. Our high school also has "screeners" at the prom to watch for signs of alcohol consumption, etc. If my DD is stupid enough to do this at her prom this spring, then she deserves to get kicked out.

One of the things that it seems (to me) to be lacking in many people nowadays is the concept of shame or embarassment when they do something wrong. Instead, they're the victim, filled with righteous indignation towards an authority figure who has the guts to give them "consequences". Sad.

Excellent post! That last paragraph is so true.

 

[cinmell]

Good for the judge!

 

[Annie68]

Here's a view from the other side: I'm a parent, and I think the judge was totally out of line. It's his vendetta, his crusade.

The initial punishment is totally out of line with the crime. That does not make teens respect authority. The kids, who weren't misbehaving or drunk, were pulled out of their prom dinner. Then their graduation rights were threatened....all because they did what kids do. They experimented. They weren't driving, and they weren't a threat to anyone.

As a former student of the high school the girl's attended, I can tell you that, even back in 1986, it was made abundantly clear to us that alcohol was not to be a factor in any school activity. We had many assemblies from MADD, SADD, and from the local law enforcement reminding us that is was illegal for us to drink. We saw horrible pictures and heard many sad stories about students that were killed in alcohol related activiities. I can tell you that no one I knew/saw at our prom dared to show up with as much as a hint of alcohol on their breath...knowing full well what the punishment would be. There were the after prom parties with alcohol, yes, kids will experiment. I just don't understand how these girls, knowing full well what the repercussions would be, were so shocked when they..smelling of alcohol and having some in their limo stumbling into Prom...were asked to leave & their parents were contacted. As far as the school suspension, the removal from the soccer games & not being allowed to wear their NHS swags to graduation....well that was all told to them over & over before Prom. I have no sympathy. They should have listened to the judge & gone away from the experience knowing they were wrong. Instead they had to make a web page, mocking the judge and throwing their underage drinking back in his face. They were once again breaking the law, but felt they were above punishment.

This judge is not some jerk...he is very well respected & admired in this town. He brings his courtroom to the local middle & high schools, and has actual cases presented before the students that involve alcohol. He lets the kids know he cares...that he doesn't want them to end up as another statistic. Do you really think him giving them community service hours initially was over the top punishment? I don't. But to have them come back with that web page, what a slap in his face. Thier parents should be mortified by their behavior. His vendetta, his crusade? What should he have done? Ignored it? What if one of these girls ended up getting behind the wheel of a car and killing an innocent person? I am sure he was well within his legal rights to do what he did.

Let me ask you, if this was your child would you really feel that it's OK for he/she to show up to Prom after drinking alcohol? You wouldn't be upset?

 

[jodifla]

I have to respectfully disagree. I'm also a parent. I have an 18-year old DD and an almost 16-old DS. If either one of them pulled this stupid stunt, I would be supporting the judge. The punishment fit the crime perfectly.

For a former high school honor student to take the TIME to thumb her nose at the legal system and create this obscene website took an incredible amount of nerve and arrogance. What a complete waste of energy. And for what?

I also respectfully disagree with the "everyone does it" mentality; thus these kids shouldn't have been punished for experimenting. Attending prom and graduation ceremonies are privileges, not matter of right. A school district is within their rights to prohibit attendance if certain rules aren't followed-rules designed for the safety of everyone. Our high school also has "screeners" at the prom to watch for signs of alcohol consumption, etc. If my DD is stupid enough to do this at her prom this spring, then she deserves to get kicked out.

One of the things that it seems (to me) to be lacking in many people nowadays is the concept of shame or embarassment when they do something wrong. Instead, they're the victim, filled with righteous indignation towards an authority figure who has the guts to give them "consequences". Sad.

In this country, there's some sense (or at least there has been) that the punishment should fit the crime.

The "zero tolerance" craze has put an end to all that.

I feel sorry for kids today. People have gotten hysterically meanspirited.

 

[minkydog]

I have to respectfully disagree. I'm also a parent. I have an 18-year old DD and an almost 16-old DS. If either one of them pulled this stupid stunt, I would be supporting the judge. The punishment fit the crime perfectly.

For a former high school honor student to take the TIME to thumb her nose at the legal system and create this obscene website took an incredible amount of nerve and arrogance. What a complete waste of energy. And for what?

I also respectfully disagree with the "everyone does it" mentality; thus these kids shouldn't have been punished for experimenting. Attending prom and graduation ceremonies are privileges, not matter of right. A school district is within their rights to prohibit attendance if certain rules aren't followed-rules designed for the safety of everyone. Our high school also has "screeners" at the prom to watch for signs of alcohol consumption, etc. If my DD is stupid enough to do this at her prom this spring, then she deserves to get kicked out.

One of the things that it seems (to me) to be lacking in many people nowadays is the concept of shame or embarassment when they do something wrong. Instead, they're the victim, filled with righteous indignation towards an authority figure who has the guts to give them "consequences". Sad.

Everything you said We recently went through the court system with DS19, who got caught driving 25+mph over the speed limit in a school zone. In GA, speeding in a school zone is a very serious offense, right up there with DUI. DS's first words were "Mom, I need a lawyer." I told him, "Son, you don't need a lawyer; you need to own up to your crime and take your punishment. I will go to court with you, but you are a grown man. You created this problem. Now take your lumps." Thankfully, he didn't get jail time, but he could have. He did get a fine and community service , of which he served every minute. When we showed up for the follow-up hearing the bailiff asked DS if he had a lawyer, and I said," No, he's has his mom." the bailiff looked at DS and said, "How bad was she? " DS replied, "I lost everything." The bailiff grinned, "good work, mom"

Parents, it's the hardest thing you'll ever do, but let your kids take their own falls. It's a life lesson they need to straighten their backbones. As we left the courthouse, DS muttered ,"I'm done with this and I'm never comiing back!"

 

[jodifla]

As a former student of the high school the girl's attended, I can tell you that, even back in 1986, it was made abundantly clear to us that alcohol was not to be a factor in any school activity. We had many assemblies from MADD, SADD, and from the local law enforcement reminding us that is was illegal for us to drink. We saw horrible pictures and heard many sad stories about students that were killed in alcohol related activiities. I can tell you that no one I knew/saw at our prom dared to show up with as much as a hint of alcohol on their breath...knowing full well what the punishment would be. There were the after prom parties with alcohol, yes, kids will experiment. I just don't understand how these girls, knowing full well what the repercussions would be, were so shocked when they..smelling of alcohol and having some in their limo stumbling into Prom...were asked to leave & their parents were contacted. As far as the school suspension, the removal from the soccer games & not being allowed to wear their NHS swags to graduation....well that was all told to them over & over before Prom. I have no sympathy. They should have listened to the judge & gone away from the experience knowing they were wrong. Instead they had to make a web page, mocking the judge and throwing their underage drinking back in his face. They were once again breaking the law, but felt they were above punishment.

This judge is not some jerk...he is very well respected & admired in this town. He brings his courtroom to the local middle & high schools, and has actual cases presented before the students that involve alcohol. He lets the kids know he cares...that he doesn't want them to end up as another statistic. Do you really think him giving them community service hours initially was over the top punishment? I don't. But to have them come back with that web page, what a slap in his face. Thier parents should be mortified by their behavior. His vendetta, his crusade? What should he have done? Ignored it? What if one of these girls ended up getting behind the wheel of a car and killing an innocent person? I am sure he was well within his legal rights to do what he did.

Let me ask you, if this was your child would you really feel that it's OK for he/she to show up to Prom after drinking alcohol? You wouldn't be upset?

I grew up when the drinking age was 18. So we all drank at our prom. Had a great time...and nobody got hurt. Nobody was a criminal, either.

 

[TimeforMe]

I don't disagree totally with his response, but I do think it was a little harsh. OTOH, maybe that's what was necessary to get the message across.

Last year, my kids' hs made the news because a bunch of kids were banned from attending their graduation because they got caught drinking at the prom after breathalyzer tests were administered. They had previously signed a "prom promise", along with their parents, stating they would not drink. It outlined the consequences, one of which was not being included in graduation. They broke the rules, they suffered the consequences. Simple. the parents were unhappy, as were many of the kids at the school, but I totally agreed.

 

[Annie68]

When we showed up for the follow-up hearing the bailiff asked DS if he had a lawyer, and I said," No, he's has his mom." the bailiff looked at DS and said, "How bad was she? " DS replied, "I lost everything." The bailiff grinned, "good work, mom"

Parents, it's the hardest thing you'll ever do, but let your kids take their own falls. It's a life lesson they need to straighten their backbones. As we left the courthouse, DS muttered ,"I'm done with this and I'm never comiing back!"

Sounds like you handled that perfectly .

 

[Nancy]

Lots of things are illegal...bet you'll break the law at least once today without even knowing it.

The trouble with your statement is "without knowing it" these kids purposely flaunted the law, they knew that drinking underage is illegal, they deliberately went out of their way to post things on the internet that were disrespectful to the judges authority...that is why I have a problem with them.


I know kids drink underage, I know this happens everyday....but if someone is staggering in the parking lot before the prom...that is not just a few drinks...that is drunk. They were given conditions at the first hearing...no alcohol. It's the same as being put on parole...you violate parole, you go to jail.

 

[jodifla]

The trouble with your statement is "without knowing it" these kids purposely flaunted the law, they knew that drinking underage is illegal, they deliberately went out of their way to post things on the internet that were disrespectful to the judges authority...that is why I have a problem with them.


I know kids drink underage, I know this happens everyday....but if someone is staggering in the parking lot before the prom...that is not just a few drinks...that is drunk. They were given conditions at the first hearing...no alcohol. It's the same as being put on parole...you violate parole, you go to jail.

Other kids were drunk, not these kids.

And living together is ILLEGAL in Michigan. I assume, then, that you support jail for this, too?

 

[DisneyPhD]

Everything you said We recently went through the court system with DS19, who got caught driving 25+mph over the speed limit in a school zone. In GA, speeding in a school zone is a very serious offense, right up there with DUI. DS's first words were "Mom, I need a lawyer." I told him, "Son, you don't need a lawyer; you need to own up to your crime and take your punishment. I will go to court with you, but you are a grown man. You created this problem. Now take your lumps." Thankfully, he didn't get jail time, but he could have. He did get a fine and community service , of which he served every minute. When we showed up for the follow-up hearing the bailiff asked DS if he had a lawyer, and I said," No, he's has his mom." the bailiff looked at DS and said, "How bad was she? " DS replied, "I lost everything." The bailiff grinned, "good work, mom"

Parents, it's the hardest thing you'll ever do, but let your kids take their own falls. It's a life lesson they need to straighten their backbones. As we left the courthouse, DS muttered ,"I'm done with this and I'm never comiing back!"

In my book you get the mom of the year award!

That was a hard thing to do, but it sounds like you love your son more then your own desire to have him "like" you. Good for you.

I was shocked to click on the link and find it was my local newspaper too. I grew up in Troy (but attened Royal Oak school, a neighboor community) and back in 1989 there was major drinking problems in the schools. (I had a number of friends who went to both Troy schools at the time also,) It apears the problems are still there, but the school is doing something about it and I am very proud of that. In fact the strict policy really makes we want to move to Troy for my kids to go to school then Royal Oak. I know RO is bad.

I agree with the judge. Maybe it was a little harsh, it doen'st sound like being kind to them was really working now was it?

I strongly disagree with people saying kids drink, often with out hurting other people, so we should just look the other way. (and having said that, who's to say they aren't hurting other people. Sure sounds to me like the are hurting themselves, their families, etc....) This judge may have put an end to this before something terrible happened that can't be changed. I am glad the parents pulled her out of MSU, she does not sound ready for being on her own.

My DH used to teach at MSU, there is a drinking problem there. There is also one in most colleges across US these days. (and was 15 years ago when I was there.) Dismissing it and what teens do is not going to make anything better.

He now teachs at a local Community College (not the one the girl is now attending, but simlar to it) and it is full of students who had to leave MSU and other schools because they drank there way OUT of school. They are doing much better at home for the most part.

 

[jodifla]

In my book you get the mom of the year award!

That was a hard thing to do, but it sounds like you love your son more then your own desire to have him "like" you. Good for you.

I was shocked to click on the link and find it was my local newspaper too. I grew up in Troy (but attened Royal Oak school, a neighboor community) and back in 1989 there was major drinking problems in the schools. (I had a number of friends who went to both Troy schools at the time also,) It apears the problems are still there, but the school is doing something about it and I am very proud of that. In fact the strict policy really makes we want to move to Troy for my kids to go to school then Royal Oak. I know RO is bad.

I agree with the judge. Maybe it was a little harsh, it doen'st sound like being kind to them was really working now was it?

I strongly disagree with people saying kids drink, often with out hurting other people, so we should just look the other way. (and having said that, who's to say they aren't hurting other people. Sure sounds to me like the are hurting themselves, their families, etc....) This judge may have put an end to this before something terrible happened that can't be changed. I am glad the parents pulled her out of MSU, she does not sound ready for being on her own.

My DH used to teach at MSU, there is a drinking problem there. There is also one in most colleges across US these days. (and was 15 years ago when I was there.) Dismissing it and what teens do is not going to make anything better.

He now teachs at a local Community College (not the one the girl is now attending, but simlar to it) and it is full of students who had to leave MSU and other schools because they drank there way OUT of school. They are doing much better at home for the most part.

Are you really shocked? Kids drink. Whether it's legal (like when I was in college) or illegal, like now. I went to UF, a pretty big drinking school. But everyone I know made it out with a degree and a good job, even though...gasp, they had some drinks and partied through school!

I don't think draconian policies work. They drive drinking underground....or have kids turning to other things, which is why drugs like ecstasy thrive.

 

[SpaceMonkeyMC]

Other kids were drunk, not these kids.

And living together is ILLEGAL in Michigan. I assume, then, that you support jail for this, too?

You're only half right. living with the opposite sex while not married is illegal in Michigan but only if you're engaging in lewd and lascivious behavior. So if you're living together so you can have sex and you're acting liek you're married but you aren't, then you're breaking the law. If you just have a female roomate, you're not in violation of code. For verification, See Michigan Penal Code, Act 328 of 1931 750.335 (I'd post a link but they won't let me)

 

[DisneyPhD]

Are you really shocked? Kids drink. Whether it's legal (like when I was in college) or illegal, like now. I went to UF, a pretty big drinking school. But everyone I know made it out with a degree and a good job, even though...gasp, they had some drinks and partied through school!

I don't think draconian policies work. They drive drinking underground....or have kids turning to other things, which is why drugs like ecstasy thrive.

I was shocked with the web site and at audasity of the girls.

There is it, teens drink, look the other way. I drank and as far as I know I am ok and so are my friends so it isn't really a problem. Look at the collom next to the article. It lists much of the effect of teenage drinking:



SAFETY: 1 out of 3 traffic deaths of teen drivers and 23% of teen suicides involve alcohol. On college campuses, 90% of sexual assaults involve alcohol.




HEALTH: Generally, girls are more affected by alcohol than boys because of lower average body weights. Studies have shown that alcohol puts teens at greater risk than adults for brain damage, causing memory loss and other problems. Teen drinking is strongly tied to teen pregnancy, and consuming alcohol while pregnant can cause birth defects. The peak age for becoming addicted to alcohol is 18.




LEGAL: Michigan has a zero-tolerance law for minors who drink or possess alcohol. The threshold for underage drinking kicks in just above zero -- at a 0.02 blood-alcohol level -- to avoid mistaking as drinkers youths who use alcohol-based medicines such as cough syrups. A glass of beer, an ounce of wine or sips of hard liquor can turn a teen into a lawbreaker.



First-time offenders normally are sentenced to 6 to 18 months of probation, court costs of about $100, probation costs of $35 to $50 per month and 20 to 50 hours of community service. First-time offenders usually get their records wiped clean after probation.




WHAT PARENTS CAN DO: Research shows adults underestimate how much youth drinking goes on. Parents should talk to their children and enlist other parents, teachers and coaches to advise against underage drinking.



SOURCES: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration; U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; Georgetown University Center on Alcohol Marketing and Youth; National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, Student Leadership Services in Waterford

 

[tarmand]

In this country, there's some sense (or at least there has been) that the punishment should fit the crime.

The "zero tolerance" craze has put an end to all that.

I feel sorry for kids today. People have gotten hysterically meanspirited.

I'm not trying to sound preachy, but try telling that to the parents of Corey Domingue , a 19 year old LSU student who died from alcohol poisoning a couple of years ago. I'm sure his parents would have rathered him spend 30 days in jail instead of eternity in a coffin.