What the Hell is Wrong with DVC?

[ParrotBill]

So to clarify on one topic, DVD is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Disney. So the buck stops with Disney. Separating it is a business decision that makes it easier to operate with its own P&L and to handle real estate legalities in over 100 states, territories and countries. So I hold Disney accountable. LOTS of companies figured it out more quickly. They've had over a month. One executive meeting can make this decision. I am on my company's task force. We meet every day and have issued over 20 communications to our employees and over 5 to our customers and suppliers over the last 5 weeks.

And I still disagree that it is okay for DVD to be silent on DVC points loss. Say something, evening if it's we're working on it. And with respect to those saying "there are more important things" my points loss is worth around $8,000 It's not trivial.

 

[momtwoboys]

So to clarify on one topic, DVD is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Disney. So the buck stops with Disney. Separating it is a business decision that makes it easier to operate with its own P&L and to handle real estate legalities in over 100 states, territories and countries. So I hold Disney accountable. LOTS of companies figured it out more quickly. They've had over a month. One executive meeting can make this decision. I am on my company's task force. We meet every day and have issued over 20 communications to our employees and over 5 to our customers and suppliers over the last 5 weeks.

And I still disagree that it is okay for DVD to be silent on DVC points loss. Say something, evening if it's we're working on it. And with respect to those saying "there are more important things" my points loss is worth around $8,000 It's not trivial.

yes!!

 

[Cyberc1978]

And I still disagree that it is okay for DVD to be silent on DVC points loss. Say something, evening if it's we're working on it. And with respect to those saying "there are more important things" my points loss is worth around $8,000 It's not trivial.

Im sorry that you risk losing that amount of $ due to the points involved. However this is one of those risks involved, and I’m sorry to say that if you me or anyone else can’t accept that there is always a risk of losing our points even though that the risk during most times are very small it is still there then maybe owning a timeshare is not the best thing.

IMO DVC should have communicated a long time ago that it’s very unfortunate that owners are losing points but we a policy is in place and we will keep it that way to ensure the availability of rooms for all members Going forward.

 

[The Prophet]

DVC was never great with communications, and with this lack of guidance, folks will assume the worst
Admittedly, this is not their fault since they know as much as we know and the guidance the CDC is putting out changes frequently.

That being said, this pandemic is costing Disney billions of dollars and the longer this lasts, the more likely Disney will be a take-over target

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

So to clarify on one topic, DVD is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Disney. So the buck stops with Disney. Separating it is a business decision that makes it easier to operate with its own P&L and to handle real estate legalities in over 100 states, territories and countries. So I hold Disney accountable. LOTS of companies figured it out more quickly. They've had over a month. One executive meeting can make this decision. I am on my company's task force. We meet every day and have issued over 20 communications to our employees and over 5 to our customers and suppliers over the last 5 weeks.

And I still disagree that it is okay for DVD to be silent on DVC points loss. Say something, evening if it's we're working on it. And with respect to those saying "there are more important things" my points loss is worth around $8,000 It's not trivial.

Technically DVC doesn’t owe you anything. You are an owner and therefore assume the risk. If you read the documents you signed, if the building where your timeshare exists gets destroyed, and DVC decides it is not worth rebuilding, you could lose your timeshare entirely, no compensation. When we signed, we read through all documents and that piece gave us pause, but of course we signed anyway!
This situation is different, but it is a force majeure situation. It is not DVC’s fault that the government shut them down. Luckily you are just out some points and not the entire timeshare.
That being said, I do think Disney should and will find a way to fix this, but you should know what your actual contract says. You should know that they are not obligated by law to compensate you.

 

[tjkraz]

So to clarify on one topic, DVD is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Disney. So the buck stops with Disney.

There are 16 individual condominium associations, none of which are subsidiaries of Disney.

Disney’s Old Key West Resort Condominium Association, Inc.
Disney’s Vero Beach Condominium Association, Inc.
Disney Vacation Club at Hilton Head Island Owners Association, Inc.
Disney’s BoardWalk Villas Condominium Association, Inc.
The Villas at Disney’s Wilderness Lodge Condominium Association, Inc.
Disney’s Beach Club Villas Condominium Association, Inc.
Disney’s Saratoga Springs Resort Condominium Association, Inc.
Disney’s Animal Kingdom Villas Condominium Association, Inc.
Bay Lake Tower at Disney’s Contemporary Resort Condominium Association, Inc.
Ali`i Nui Vacation Owners Association, Inc.
Ali`i Nui Villas Condominium Association, Inc.
Ali`i Nui Hotel Condominium Association, Inc.
The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort Condominium Association, Inc.
Disney’s Polynesian Villas & Bungalows Condominium Association, Inc.
Copper Creek Villas & Cabins at Disney’s Wilderness Lodge Condominium Association, Inc.
Disney’s Riviera Resort Condominium Association, Inc.

Disney Vacation Club Management, LLC (the timeshare developer) and Disney Vacation Club Management, LLC (the timeshare manager) are Disney entities. But it’s unlikely that either is legally obligated to cover unanticipated capacity shortfalls caused by a pandemic.

 

[drusba]

Just supplying some info for some members, particularly resale purchasers, who mention above not having a POS (given by DVD to purchasers from DVD).

Though the multi-site POS is not provided online, most of the site POS is.The site POS consists of about 20 or so introductory summary pages and then voluminous Decarations and exhibits. Finding those 20 or so introductory pages online cannot be done unless some member or other person has put them online somewhere. However, you can find the declarations and exhibits for the WDW resorts online at the Orange County Comptrollers site: go here https://or.occompt.com/recorder/web/?, click on I accept, and on the next page put in the following Book and Page numbers for OKW or BWV or the applicable Doc# for any of the others:

OKW Book 4361 Page 2551
BWV Book 5101 Page 147
BLT Doc # 20080532599
AKV Doc # 20070050562
CCV 20170096685
VGF 20130171571
Poly 20150007003
SSR 20040270179
BRV 20010015531
BCV 20020251548
RIV 20190114799

 

[Sandisw]

So to clarify on one topic, DVD is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Disney. So the buck stops with Disney. Separating it is a business decision that makes it easier to operate with its own P&L and to handle real estate legalities in over 100 states, territories and countries. So I hold Disney accountable. LOTS of companies figured it out more quickly. They've had over a month. One executive meeting can make this decision. I am on my company's task force. We meet every day and have issued over 20 communications to our employees and over 5 to our customers and suppliers over the last 5 weeks.

And I still disagree that it is okay for DVD to be silent on DVC points loss. Say something, evening if it's we're working on it. And with respect to those saying "there are more important things" my points loss is worth around $8,000 It's not trivial.

You can feel that the buck stops with TWDC, but they made sure that we, as owners, cant force them to take care of it,

We have no standing in that respect, and while we can hope that given this, DVCM is trying to find a solution and getting that help from the company, the reality is it doesn’t just happen,

I am sorry for the loss you are facing, and let’s hope that once it is over, as many members as possible are helped in some way.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Members' meeting in December should be a hoot.

 

[Minniesgal]

For anyone not refunding amounts to those having rented their points here. Those renters may have an immediate need for those funds, like food and rent, possibly medical care as well. May be a good time to pay it forward here.

As might owners.

Owners= rich, renters=poor is not necessarily reality.

 

[bookwormde]

We have no standing in that respect, and while we can hope that given this, DVCM is trying to find a solution and getting that help from the company, the reality is it doesn’t just happen,

The only avenue is a white knight member or if enough members get frustrated enough and form a membership entity with fiscal capacity and use members discovery rights under FL statute, and only then if DVC/DVD had in some way violated FL stature (eg best interest standard).

 

[TraderSamWDW]

Disney is still the largest owner of each individual association (owning 2 plus percent).

It is true that the reality is they have no legal obligation to do anything. Reality is irrelevant, it's the perception of reality that is important. DVC members are probably by and large good Disney customers. If they feel slighted and Disney thinks that will hurt their bottom line, they will do something.

Legally no obligation to do anything.
Might not be the best business move to aggravate a lot of your best customers.

I got a cash room comped on night because it was unacceptable. I moved the next day. Disney had no legal obligation to comp the room for me. They did what they thought was the best move in terms of a relationship with a customer.

Sure they have no legal obligation to do anything. That does not mean that they wont.

How do you think DRR sales will go if all of a sudden a very large number of DVC owners start telling their friends how horrible DVC is? Angry customers who feel slighted, be it justified or not, is not a good thing. Particularly en mass.

Perfectly legal for DVC people to be at the park and talking out loud about how much they hate DVC. Particularly near the Kiosks.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Disney Vacation Club Management, LLC (the timeshare developer) and Disney Vacation Club Management, LLC (the timeshare manager) are Disney entities, as stated above. The Developer is out once the real interest is sold. Their obligation is done for.

DVC Management LLC is, literally, the caretaker. They are not even the holder of the 2% mandatory ownership, I don't believe.

The responsible party to "make owners whole!" is, well, us. The owners. The members of each independent condo association.

When Disney "comp" cash rooms because of issues, the association dues pay for it.

 

[Ms.Minnie]

This is a very difficult situation for all parties and I don't see an easy answer that will be far to all DVC members and DVC Management LLC. It appears there is a very important lesson to be learned here; it's not a good idea to wait until the last minute to use banked points. I'm sorry to state the obvious and I do feel bad for all those who are losing valuable points (I know I would be very upset too) but we all should know how the system works.

This should be an eye opener for all, I had to take pause to think about my upcoming trip this Jan 2021 for which I will be using bank points from 2019 (DEC UY). In my case I should be ok if for some reason I can't go either by my decision or by outside forces I don't control. I guess this is an example of how important a UY can be. We usually always travel in Jan, I have a Dec UY so I have almost a full year to use my banked points if I have to cancel or get cancelled in a situation like this.

I have been a member for 20 years and nothing like this has ever happened before to my knowledge, my experience has been very favorable with the exception of the last point allocation. I'm not happy with that because it didn't work in favor but others are ok with it because it did. The point is nothing is ever fair for all, some benefit and others lose. It's unfortunate that so many find themselves in this bad situation. I wish there was an easy answer but I don't think there is.

 

[RescueRanger]

Look, as owners, you should know the risks involved with using points at the end of your use year. Things happen. I have never used my points at the end of the use year nor will I. If I need to go during that time, I will rent a cash stay before I use my points. I really hope Disney does something for those affected by this. But if they don’t, then so be it. I hope this has been a valuable lesson for all of those involved. I am not saying this to be callous, but it is what it is.

 

[Sandisw]

Disney is still the largest owner of each individual association (owning 2 plus percent).

It is true that the reality is they have no legal obligation to do anything. Reality is irrelevant, it's the perception of reality that is important. DVC members are probably by and large good Disney customers. If they feel slighted and Disney thinks that will hurt their bottom line, they will do something.

Legally no obligation to do anything.
Might not be the best business move to aggravate a lot of your best customers.

I got a cash room comped on night because it was unacceptable. I moved the next day. Disney had no legal obligation to comp the room for me. They did what they thought was the best move in terms of a relationship with a customer.

Sure they have no legal obligation to do anything. That does not mean that they wont.

How do you think DRR sales will go if all of a sudden a very large number of DVC owners start telling their friends how horrible DVC is? Angry customers who feel slighted, be it justified or not, is not a good thing. Particularly en mass.

Perfectly legal for DVC people to be at the park and talking out loud about how much they hate DVC. Particularly near the Kiosks.

Honestly, I’ve said this before, someone who doesn’t understand the true workings of DVC and it’s limitations and risks, might not be the best candidate to become an owner.

I think this situation has brought to light all that as well. So, while there certainly could be something that Disney decides to do in conjunction with DVCM to ensure the brand doesn’t suffer, I wouldn’t advise anyone to become a DVC owner expecting and comparing the experience to what happens to a cash guest.

 

[TraderSamWDW]

Honestly, I’ve said this before, someone who doesn’t understand the true workings of DVC and it’s limitations and risks, might not be the best candidate to become an owner.

I think this situation has brought to light all that as well. So, while there certainly could be something that Disney decides to do in conjunction with DVCM to ensure the brand doesn’t suffer, I wouldn’t advise anyone to become a DVC owner expecting and comparing the experience to what happens to a cash guest.

Sandi, while I don't really disagree with your statement, what percentage of DVC owners do you think have an understanding of the true workings of DVC?

3 percent....MAYBE? Lets get crazy and call it 10 percent. Most people have NO idea. In fact, I would say Disney does not really want them to have an idea.

If only people who truly understood the inner working of DVC bought into it, they would still be selling Old Key West (not because its a poor offering, because that is how small the number of people who really understand this.)

How many very knowledgeable people on these forums have dummied it down to "prepaying your hotel" - and I don't think they are wrong to do so, but technically it is about 98% inaccurate.

There are what, 150K - 200K DVC owners - what, maybe 1000 come to forums such as this?

No one would have ever thought to ask their guide "What happens if the parks get closed for an extended period of time?" But now, they might. If a guide's response is, well, then you are SOL.....sales might go down.

Mind you, I did not say they should do something, or that they should not do something. Honestly, I do not really care, whatever they do, Ill live with it. I merely highlighted the line they are walking right now. It has nothing to do with corporate and legal structures. Any business that displeases its customers does do at its own risk. And while Disney doing nothing may be legally "right" its risks driving away customers. And there is a good likely hood that attendance may be bad for a long time to come, I really have no idea.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Sandi, while I don't really disagree with your statement, what percentage of DVC owners do you think have an understanding of the true workings of DVC?

3 percent....MAYBE? Lets get crazy and call it 10 percent. Most people have NO idea. In fact, I would say Disney does not really want them to have an idea.

If only people who truly understood the inner working of DVC bought into it, they would still be selling Old Key West (not because its a poor offering, because that is how small the number of people who really understand this.)

How many very knowledgeable people on these forums have dummied it down to "prepaying your hotel" - and I don't think they are wrong to do so, but technically it is about 98% inaccurate.

There are what, 150K - 200K DVC owners - what, maybe 1000 come to forums such as this?

No one would have ever thought to ask their guide "What happens if the parks get closed for an extended period of time?" But now, they might. If a guide's response is, well, then you are SOL.....sales might go down.

Mind you, I did not say they should do something, or that they should not do something. Honestly, I do not really care, whatever they do, Ill live with it. I merely highlighted the line they are walking right now. It has nothing to do with corporate and legal structures. Any business that displeases its customers does do at its own risk. And while Disney doing nothing may be legally "right" its risks driving away customers. And there is a good likely hood that attendance may be bad for a long time to come, I really have no idea.

Funny you say that. I remember when we purchased in 2002, our guide actually stressed there is no guarantee there will be parks in the future. He said they could close them permanently, and we would still own DVC.

 

[TraderSamWDW]

Funny you say that. I remember when we purchased in 2002, our guide actually stressed there is no guarantee there will be parks in the future. He said they could close them permanently, and we would still own DVC.

Surprised that a guide said that. Guess I should have said "What happens if the RESORTS get closed for an extended period of time? " - the parks arent really relevant. But had i been in your shoes my inner monologue would have been "that's a nice cover your *** legal statement - like that will ever happen" lol

Then again, we really never thought this a possibility.

Disney knows they have no legal obligation here. The fact that they haven't stated "oh well, too bad" tells me they want to do something.

 

[Sandisw]

Sandi, while I don't really disagree with your statement, what percentage of DVC owners do you think have an understanding of the true workings of DVC?

3 percent....MAYBE? Lets get crazy and call it 10 percent. Most people have NO idea. In fact, I would say Disney does not really want them to have an idea.

If only people who truly understood the inner working of DVC bought into it, they would still be selling Old Key West (not because its a poor offering, because that is how small the number of people who really understand this.)

How many very knowledgeable people on these forums have dummied it down to "prepaying your hotel" - and I don't think they are wrong to do so, but technically it is about 98% inaccurate.

There are what, 150K - 200K DVC owners - what, maybe 1000 come to forums such as this?

No one would have ever thought to ask their guide "What happens if the parks get closed for an extended period of time?" But now, they might. If a guide's response is, well, then you are SOL.....sales might go down.

Mind you, I did not say they should do something, or that they should not do something. Honestly, I do not really care, whatever they do, Ill live with it. I merely highlighted the line they are walking right now. It has nothing to do with corporate and legal structures. Any business that displeases its customers does do at its own risk. And while Disney doing nothing may be legally "right" its risks driving away customers. And there is a good likely hood that attendance may be bad for a long time to come, I really have no idea.

I agree with you it’s a small percentage, which is unfortunately and why you see so many upset people with DVC and not making it right.

I just wanted to bring to light that if owners who don’t have a good understanding and go out and bad mouth Disney to wrongly accuse them of not doing things they should, and it turns someone else off, then it may be a good thing,

While this situation is causing large scale cancelations, the points at risk of being lost are because people took a risk and traveled at a very risky time for points.

I never imagined a resort closure either, but I purposely don’t travel late because I know it’s risky and if something happened, I’d be out points. Many owners do this and it’s a big piece of advice given here on the DIS,

So, while I feel for people in this position, and hope they get relief, I also think that owners do have a responsibility to understand what they have and what the remedies are,

I operate all the time with the mindset that I manage expectations based on the situation at hand, I can vent, I can be upset, but I have to at least be willing to accept my fate based on the reality of the situation,

Given what is going on in the company right now, including with employees, I just am not that confident that the solution is going to be what people want. I hope I am wrong.